Knicks players and coaches frustrated with KAT

[Pr0nzingis]

hey peeps, just a reminder - requiring towns and brunson to be good defenders also means y'all willing to see them get into foul trouble

wonder why brunhim got that 5 fouls in record time in a playoff game? because he tried to play defense. thats why

I'm pretty sure it was because he was tired. And we know who's fault that was.

off 35mpg? he and KAT?

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I'm pretty sure it was because he was tired. And we know who's fault that was.

off 35mpg? he and KAT?

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

[god shammgod]

off 35mpg? he and KAT?

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

yeah, the only guys that really got overplayed were mikal and og

[Jeff Van Gully]

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

yeah, the only guys that really got overplayed were mikal and og

and hart. the wings played more like 37-38 IIRC. that's how hart won the mpg title. and mikal led in total minutes (all 82).

[god shammgod]

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

yeah, the only guys that really got overplayed were mikal and og

and hart. the wings played more like 37-38 IIRC. that's how hart won the mpg title. and mikal led in total minutes (all 82).

i don't know that minutes even effect josh hart much. it's rare you see him look tired.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[BKlutch]

Read on Twitter

He's tougher than he looked to many folks. He's a gentle person but really drove over a ton of defenders.

BTW, any relationship between Fat Kat and (allegedly) fat KAT?

[spree8]

off 35mpg? he and KAT?

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

Jalen played 38 mpg in the playoffs, but it’s also the issue that not all minutes are the same. His high usage and our heavy reliance on him on offense combined with the opposing team putting elite wing defenders on him +doubles, in addition to hunting him a lot on the other end, makes it a lot tougher minutes than say a 3&D guy who stands in the corner most possessions.

Same could be said for guys like Mikal… this dude got hit with the most screens in the league guarding out of position while never missing a game playing the most minutes… like he said it’s hard on the body.

I mentioned this once in the other thread, but our starters playing 770 more minutes than the Pacers starters thru the season is insane. That’s 16 extra games we played more than them.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Jeff Van Gully]

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

Jalen played 38 mpg in the playoffs, but it’s also the issue that not all minutes are the same. His high usage and our heavy reliance on him on offense combined with the opposing team putting elite wing defenders on him +doubles, in addition to hunting him a lot on the other end, makes it a lot tougher minutes than say a 3&D guy who stands in the corner most possessions.

Same could be said for guys like Mikal… this dude got hit with the most screens in the league guarding out of position while never missing a game playing the most minutes… like he said it’s hard on the body.

I mentioned this once in the other thread, but our starters playing 770 more minutes than the Pacers starters thru the season is insane. That’s 16 extra games we played more than them.

you're absolutely right. KAT stayed level in the playoffs at 35.5 (just outside top 30). but Brunson's regular season 35 did bump up to 37.8. i overlooked that. still barely top 20. og and mikal got 39. still scratching at the top 10.

and you're right that minutes are not all equal. it's part of the reason i don't like to lean on them so much. so much variability in what they mean.

looking at this, i find it interesting that joker and murray both averaged over 40 (over 41 for the latter) after malone's firing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2025_per_game.html#per_game_stats::mp_per_g

[mpharris36]

yeah, the only guys that really got overplayed were mikal and og

and hart. the wings played more like 37-38 IIRC. that's how hart won the mpg title. and mikal led in total minutes (all 82).

i don't know that minutes even effect josh hart much. it's rare you see him look tired.

I agree however I think the effect comes from his preparation. He himself says his off days are basically used as recovery for his heavy work load. Basically he puts work in the offseason but during the season because he is managing his heavy work load he really doesn't practice much or go hard. That is a concern and his tail off shooting might be directly correlated with not staying up on his shooting because he basically had to manage a crazy minutes work load.

He needs to adjust his habits...the team commits to him playing less so that he can be more effective on and off the floor in his minutes.

[NYKinMIA]

why does this thread feel like the scene of a crime?

[Jeff Van Gully]

and hart. the wings played more like 37-38 IIRC. that's how hart won the mpg title. and mikal led in total minutes (all 82).

i don't know that minutes even effect josh hart much. it's rare you see him look tired.

I agree however I think the effect comes from his preparation. He himself says his off days are basically used as recovery for his heavy work load. Basically he puts work in the offseason but during the season because he is managing his heavy work load he really doesn't practice much or go hard. That is a concern and his tail off shooting might be directly correlated with not staying up on his shooting because he basically had to manage a crazy minutes work load.

He needs to adjust his habits...the team commits to him playing less so that he can be more effective on and off the floor in his minutes.

he's not getting younger. this doesn't get easier.

i really just assumed there's always time and energy for shooting. but never thought about how deep the recovery might need to be whereas it could impact. i was aware that they didn't scrimmage and run like the old days, but the extent of the recovery needs never really crossed my mind with regards to impact on even "light" skill sharpening.

[Luv those Knicks]

Read on Twitter

He's tougher than he looked to many folks. He's a gentle person but really drove over a ton of defenders.

BTW, and relationship between Fat Kat and (allegedly) fat KAT?

I have to wonder to what extent the bad knee hurt his defense. Granted, mental mistakes like not knowing when to switch or what his assignment is has little to do with being slowed down by a hurting knee, and his knee was hurting him. You could see it when he moved sometimes.

Can he improve on the defensive mistakes? Can the Knicks new coach make better use of him? Can we use Mitch more?

KAT"s still a plus player, so it's mostly about figuring out how to work with him. What else the team needs.

[mpharris36]

i don't know that minutes even effect josh hart much. it's rare you see him look tired.

I agree however I think the effect comes from his preparation. He himself says his off days are basically used as recovery for his heavy work load. Basically he puts work in the offseason but during the season because he is managing his heavy work load he really doesn't practice much or go hard. That is a concern and his tail off shooting might be directly correlated with not staying up on his shooting because he basically had to manage a crazy minutes work load.

He needs to adjust his habits...the team commits to him playing less so that he can be more effective on and off the floor in his minutes.

he's not getting younger. this doesn't get easier.

i really just assumed there's always time and energy for shooting. but never thought about how deep the recovery might need to be whereas it could impact. i was aware that they didn't scrimmage and run like the old days, but the extent of the recovery needs never really crossed my mind with regards to impact on even "light" skill sharpening.

basically Brunson jokes that Hart is a terrible practice player that doesn't take it seriously...he says because of whats required of him during the games he can't go all out in practice as well.

I think that needs to be addressed with the new coach because Hart becoming a respectable shooter opens up so much for this team.

[BKlutch]

Read on Twitter

He's tougher than he looked to many folks. He's a gentle person but really drove over a ton of defenders.

BTW, and relationship between Fat Kat and (allegedly) fat KAT?

I have to wonder to what extent the bad knee hurt his defense. Granted, mental mistakes like not knowing when to switch or what his assignment is has little to do with being slowed down by a hurting knee, and his knee was hurting him. You could see it when he moved sometimes.

Can he improve on the defensive mistakes? Can the Knicks new coach make better use of him? Can we use Mitch more?

KAT"s still a plus player, so it's mostly about figuring out how to work with him. What else the team needs.

Leon paid a heavy price for KAT, so he really likes him. Also, their relationship goes way back. He must believe that a different coach would better utilize KAT on both ends of the floor. If he saw KAT as the problem, he wouldn't have had a need to dismiss Thibs before he could even digest the best season in 25 years.

If Leon thinks KAT is that good, I'm inclined to give him a chance to show us.

[bonita_the_frog]

KAT is the only weak link in Knicks defense, so he MUST be traded, yes?

[Jeff Van Gully]

I agree however I think the effect comes from his preparation. He himself says his off days are basically used as recovery for his heavy work load. Basically he puts work in the offseason but during the season because he is managing his heavy work load he really doesn't practice much or go hard. That is a concern and his tail off shooting might be directly correlated with not staying up on his shooting because he basically had to manage a crazy minutes work load.

He needs to adjust his habits...the team commits to him playing less so that he can be more effective on and off the floor in his minutes.

he's not getting younger. this doesn't get easier.

i really just assumed there's always time and energy for shooting. but never thought about how deep the recovery might need to be whereas it could impact. i was aware that they didn't scrimmage and run like the old days, but the extent of the recovery needs never really crossed my mind with regards to impact on even "light" skill sharpening.

basically Brunson jokes that Hart is a terrible practice player that doesn't take it seriously...he says because of whats required of him during the games he can't go all out in practice as well.

I think that needs to be addressed with the new coach because Hart becoming a respectable shooter opens up so much for this team.

so, i knew that part. just never gave thought to the having enough energy to work on skills part.

and, yes. he has to get his shot together.

[Pr0nzingis]

Your argument is Knicks starters only play 35 minutes? I can't deal with delusion.

it's not an argument. nor is it delusion. towns and brunson were being discussed.

that's what towns and brunson played. all season long and in the playoffs.

Jalen played 38 mpg in the playoffs, but it’s also the issue that not all minutes are the same. His high usage and our heavy reliance on him on offense combined with the opposing team putting elite wing defenders on him +doubles, in addition to hunting him a lot on the other end, makes it a lot tougher minutes than say a 3&D guy who stands in the corner most possessions.

Same could be said for guys like Mikal… this dude got hit with the most screens in the league guarding out of position while never missing a game playing the most minutes… like he said it’s hard on the body.

I mentioned this once in the other thread, but our starters playing 770 more minutes than the Pacers starters thru the season is insane. That’s 16 extra games we played more than them.

Now take the 2 blowout games against Celtics where he still played 35 minutes btw even with Celtics clearing the bench and take the games after Tibs was down 0-2 and losing by 17 in the third game when he decided to play the bench so that he could blame it and u gonna have +40 mpg while having the ball in his hands all the time, cause usage stat also don't tell everything.

Or one could just use the eyes to see how he was almost useless in the second half of the last 3\4 games because he was tired. Dude was headbutting people out of frustration.

[mpharris36]

he's not getting younger. this doesn't get easier.

i really just assumed there's always time and energy for shooting. but never thought about how deep the recovery might need to be whereas it could impact. i was aware that they didn't scrimmage and run like the old days, but the extent of the recovery needs never really crossed my mind with regards to impact on even "light" skill sharpening.

basically Brunson jokes that Hart is a terrible practice player that doesn't take it seriously...he says because of whats required of him during the games he can't go all out in practice as well.

I think that needs to be addressed with the new coach because Hart becoming a respectable shooter opens up so much for this team.

so, i knew that part. just never gave thought to the having enough energy to work on skills part.

and, yes. he has to get his shot together.

It sort of makes sense to me...

Look at how he shoots to start the season and to start the playoffs...usually after a considerable time off he shooting splits usually start well and then diminish throughout the season and then throughout the playoffs.