Raps trying to trade us Lowry...

[BeagleBoss]

What nerve of Toronto to even ask for a future 1st. Lowry isn't some kind of young up and coming player. He's as average as they come! Getting a cheaper Felton and a young player like Shumpert should have been enough.

[bigfnjoe96]

I say we wait until the deadline before we Buy/Sell... Tyson is coming back this week, JR can't be this bad all season could he? See how we look for the next month & a half. If it still looks bad blow-it up

[spikeslovechild]

all of this happens if we don't go after lowry?

All this likely happens if do nothing and continue to roll Felton and JR out there. We can't survive with the guard play we are getting.

If it's not Lowry then it needs to be someone else.

you do realize we have played the first ~25% of the season basically without tyson, right? you do realize that the second he steps onto the court we will be better...right? while he doesnt help sure up out perimeter defense, he helps the interior -- meaning, if a guard does get into the paint, they actually have someone to watch out for.

in addition, as bad as jr/shump/everyone else ahs been playing, you have to figure that the shooting percentages will get back to the mean...or at least close to it. playing the averages, you have to think that the % will go up.

we are a 2nd round team at best as currently constructed and a 2nd round team at best with lowry. no need to further jeopardize our future by trading young players / more picks.

fact is, this is a knee jerk trade based on our horrible record -- a record we would not have had tyson not been injured for so many games.

You don't know if Felton and JR will get be better. In particular JR in which Woodson has commented maybe not be right ALL SEASON.

Felton is overweight despite his preseason claims and is battling injuries of his own. I have a hard time believing either of them will come close to finishing near their career norms.

I'm also not sure really where you are even going with Chandler. He'll help fix our interior D but he's not going to give JR new knees and improve his shot selection. He's not going to fix Shumperts offensive regression. He's not going to force Felton to give up his crispy creme obsession and get healthy either.

Other Knicks fans need to stop pretending that Chandler is only difference between this years team and last years team. The idea that the team as currently constructed could even make it to the playoffs let alone the second round is a joke.

I've also already posted the numbers indicating the huge gap in play the Raptors are receiving from Lowry (+5.6 PER offensively, +4.3 PER defensively) versus Felton. I don't know why some of you guys think want to pretend Lowry is mediocre. If you don't want the knicks to trade for him thats certainly fine, I would hope however if Mills can't get a deal done like I said earlier he looks elsewhere because we are going nowhere with the team as currently constructed.

[moocow007]

I say we wait until the deadline before we Buy/Sell... Tyson is coming back this week, JR can't be this bad all season could he? See how we look for the next month & a half. If it still looks bad blow-it up

Agreed.

Again, the Knicks need simply to win the Atlantic Division and they'll be, at worst, the 4th seed in the playoffs. With only Miami and Indiana playing anything resembling none poo basketball, it's still early to not go crazy with panic.

[don't panac]

How is going nothing, missing the playoffs, and losing Melo in the offseason a good business decision?

I'm not saying it has to be Lowry or that it ends with him. But the Knicks have to do something not only for their fans but to convince Melo that this team can win moving forward. The idea that we can afford to punt the season and rebuild is just garbage. The Knicks already mortgaged those draft picks. They have to double down with Melo and do everything in their power to convince him to stay eventhough it maybe a bad bet at this point.

all of this happens if we don't go after lowry?

All this likely happens if do nothing and continue to roll Felton and JR out there. We can't survive with the guard play we are getting.

If it's not Lowry then it needs to be someone else.

first off, i seriously doubt fail-a-ton is back as a starter when he gets back fully healthy in 10-12 weeks ( ).
even woodson is not that dum, and we can only hope his replacement coach will see that even more clearly.
Fail-a-ton can be an ok back up for 15-20 minutes, and JR can also be useful in a limited role, as he showed last year.
the key is getting a new coach that doesn't 'owe' them anything or is blinded by fatherly love (whatever woody's reasons are ) and actually holds them accountable for their play.

that said, we do need to improve the backcourt and trading JR and Fail-a-ton should be the primary objectives. lowry would help but not at all costs. and again, a change of coach should be the first move, IMO.

[Lord Commander]

Most of you guys are against trading the 1st it seems (im on the same boat).

Just curious though, would you guys do Shump + Felton for Lowry if it came to that?

Not me. Fleton, Metta and a second round pick or they can kick rocks.

[SpiderMunn]

Kyle Lowry: There is something to be said about having an asset other teams want; you can simply sit back and let the market shower you with affection and options. The Toronto Raptors are going to move point guard Kyle Lowry. The question isn’t “if” it is “when”. The New York Knicks, Brooklyn Nets and LA Lakers have all been linked to Lowry in some way, either through media reports or from genuine offers. The Raptors are sitting in the control position and they have made it clear they are not doing a deal with Lowry unless it nets them the kinds of future assets they want and if that means walking this down to the trade deadline, they are more than prepared to do it.

If Raptor’s president and general manager Masai Ujiri has proven anything in his time in the executive chair, it’s that he’ll wait for his deal. The Raptors are in no hurry to make a bad deal and until the Raptors get what they are asking for things will stay as they are. It is inevitable that Lowry is moved. The Raptors have to get value for him before the trade deadline. The question is who will meet the asking price in Toronto? At this point that team is not clear. The Knicks are back at the table. The Warriors have expressed interest and the Nets and Lakers are sniffing around, so it’s not as if Toronto doesn’t have options.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-the-tr ... HZUuEaO.99

[sol537]

The Raptors are under pressure to slow their rate of winning lol I'll be surprised if they keep Lowry longer than another week or two.

[NBA Fan 1234]

You don't know if Felton and JR will get be better. In particular JR in which Woodson has commented maybe not be right ALL SEASON.

Felton is overweight despite his preseason claims and is battling injuries of his own. I have a hard time believing either of them will come close to finishing near their career norms.

I'm also not sure really where you are even going with Chandler. He'll help fix our interior D but he's not going to give JR new knees and improve his shot selection. He's not going to fix Shumperts offensive regression. He's not going to force Felton to give up his crispy creme obsession and get healthy either.

Other Knicks fans need to stop pretending that Chandler is only difference between this years team and last years team. The idea that the team as currently constructed could even make it to the playoffs let alone the second round is a joke.

I've also already posted the numbers indicating the huge gap in play the Raptors are receiving from Lowry (+5.6 PER offensively, +4.3 PER defensively) versus Felton. I don't know why some of you guys think want to pretend Lowry is mediocre. If you don't want the knicks to trade for him thats certainly fine, I would hope however if Mills can't get a deal done like I said earlier he looks elsewhere because we are going nowhere with the team as currently constructed.

-id be willing to bet that their numbers go up
-felton is overweight? hes actually in solid shape (minus the injuries). arrived into camp as slim as hes been in years
-chandler will help fix the knicks interior defense and overall defense. defensive anchors (guys who talk, rotate properly, defend pick and roll) help defenses the second they step on the court. also, its not "our" its the knicks' defense.
-chandler isnt the only difference. where did i say that? last year, incredibly hot shooting from three and good vets helped us get off to a nice start and end to the season. however, in the piss poor eastern conference, he will undoubtedly make us a playoff team...and, most likely, a top 5 seed -- we still may suck, but the east is that bad.
-lowry is better than felton. im not denying that. however, we need someone who can run an offense like an actual point guard -- thats why prigioni is so good for us. melo responds to that...not guys like felton, who lowry is more similar to (hes a souped up felton, in my opinion).

anyways, the raptors board...go back there. or at least stop pretending you are a knicks fan. youre in canada...

[Greenie]

Kyle Lowry: There is something to be said about having an asset other teams want; you can simply sit back and let the market shower you with affection and options. The Toronto Raptors are going to move point guard Kyle Lowry. The question isn’t “if” it is “when”. The New York Knicks, Brooklyn Kyle_Lowry_Raptors_2013_Inside_USAT4Nets and LA Lakers have all been linked to Lowry in some way, either through media reports or from genuine offers. The Raptors are sitting in the control position and they have made it clear they are not doing a deal with Lowry unless it nets them the kinds of future assets they want and if that means walking this down to the trade deadline, they are more than prepared to do it.

If Raptor’s president and general manager Masai Ujiri has proven anything in his time in the executive chair, it’s that he’ll wait for his deal. The Raptors are in no hurry to make a bad deal and until the Raptors get what they are asking for things will stay as they are. It is inevitable that Lowry is moved. The Raptors have to get value for him before the trade deadline. The question is who will meet the asking price in Toronto? At this point that team is not clear. The Knicks are back at the table. The Warriors have expressed interest and the Nets and Lakers are sniffing around, so it’s not as if Toronto doesn’t have options.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-the-tr ... HZUuEaO.99

good keep him

we don't want Felton jr. now please leave this subject alone.

can mods please lock this? too many rap fans making this their new home...

[spikeslovechild]

Kyle Lowry: There is something to be said about having an asset other teams want; you can simply sit back and let the market shower you with affection and options. The Toronto Raptors are going to move point guard Kyle Lowry. The question isn’t “if” it is “when”. The New York Knicks, Brooklyn Kyle_Lowry_Raptors_2013_Inside_USAT4Nets and LA Lakers have all been linked to Lowry in some way, either through media reports or from genuine offers. The Raptors are sitting in the control position and they have made it clear they are not doing a deal with Lowry unless it nets them the kinds of future assets they want and if that means walking this down to the trade deadline, they are more than prepared to do it.

If Raptor’s president and general manager Masai Ujiri has proven anything in his time in the executive chair, it’s that he’ll wait for his deal. The Raptors are in no hurry to make a bad deal and until the Raptors get what they are asking for things will stay as they are. It is inevitable that Lowry is moved. The Raptors have to get value for him before the trade deadline. The question is who will meet the asking price in Toronto? At this point that team is not clear. The Knicks are back at the table. The Warriors have expressed interest and the Nets and Lakers are sniffing around, so it’s not as if Toronto doesn’t have options.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-the-tr ... HZUuEaO.99

There you go. The idea that some knicks fans had here that the Raptors were just going to accept our garbage because they had no other alternative was never founded in reality.

From the looks of things we missed out on a golden opportunity to get on Lowry before Masai shopped him around. Time for plan B I guess.

[Jazz(FU)]

If Toronto keeps winning games, they may end up losing by winning a trade closer to the deadline. Waiting for a better trade for a future asset, may diminish the value of the pick they already have...

[NBA Fan 1234]

let spikeslovechild be a warning for raptor fans -- DO NOT come here and troll or even try to troll.

[gavran]

not guys like felton, who lowry is more similar to (hes a souped up felton, in my opinion).

That is exactly what Lowry is, except he is a terrible pick and roll player, while Felton is decent (when he is on). And for a team that is as dependent on P&R as the Knicks are, I'm not convinced that Lowry would be as big of an upgrade over Felton for the team as he would be an upgrade over him individually (does this make sense? I'm a math guy, so what I'm trying to say is the team production with Lowry/team production with Felton ratio is << than the Lowry/Felton ratio).

[NOOB77]

Final offer is still my first offer. Felton, MWP and a lotto protected first. Other than that kick bricks and take what you can get from other teams I do not care. Lowry is an average player and only reason why we are looking at him is because Felton has sucked and been injured.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Felton and JR have always been inconsistent. They have always gone through stretches where they play like bums. I didn't want either of those guys, but it is what it is and we are stuck with them. Trading Shump or a 1st rounder with them for a minor upgrade that will probably only be a 1 year rental won’t accomplish much.

Our best chance is probably just to wait it out and hope those guys peak in the playoffs this time, instead of peaking during the regular season like last year.

Of course if we can get anything for JR and Felton, I would do it. But the reality is that the Knicks just don't have enough chips for the upgrade they need.

[Knox]

If Lowry was really that valuable, they wouldn't be trying to ship him out of town. He is expendable for a reason and this is beyond just tanking. You think if he was CP3 they would be trying to move him to tank. Lowry's talent as a PG that can be replaced ( or found) in time. We are not over paying so keep him and F U MASahiroPuto

[god shammgod]

Final offer is still my first offer. Felton, MWP and a lotto protected first. Other than that kick bricks and take what you can get from other teams I do not care. Lowry is an average player and only reason why we are looking at him is because Felton has sucked and been injured.

they would take that in a second. we're trying to give them nothing by all reports. what's funny is it's their fans that are starting to panic. they're winning too much. they're about to get stuck in the middle.

[Greenie]

Final offer is still my first offer. Felton, MWP and a lotto protected first. Other than that kick bricks and take what you can get from other teams I do not care. Lowry is an average player and only reason why we are looking at him is because Felton has sucked and been injured.

they would take that in a second. we're trying to give them nothing by all reports. what's funny is it's their fans that are starting to panic. they're winning too much. they're about to get stuck in the middle.

exactly.


......but hey we have to overpay because their in the drivers seat.

and they are.....all the way to the 10th pick.

[Mike Breen]

If Lowry was really that valuable, they wouldn't be trying to ship him out of town. He is expendable for a reason and this is beyond just tanking. You think if he was CP3 they would be trying to move him to tank. Lowry's talent as a PG that can be replaced ( or found) in time. We are not over paying so keep him and F U MASahiroPuto

I kind of see your point, but CP3 is a terrible example. You look to dump players when they're not good enough to be a franchise cornerstone and not bad enough to be a tank commander. Lowry right in the middle.