Star Wars Episode VIII - SPOILERS

[Fury]

Yeah, I understand the frustration of hardcore fans (I've had the same reaction when GoT the show mishandled book characters and plots). But I'm more casual...so I was more bored with the Force Awakens (Finn's story was the only thing that didn't feel like an "updated version" to me) than this one.

On the spoiler

Spoiler:

That's an interesting take on it for sure. I looked at it as Luke thinking he was making the same mistakes that previous Jedi Masters made (specifically how they inadvertantly birthed Vader), and slipping up. But that's me inserting a LOT of speculation to fit it together. Actually the idea of disconnect between generations would fit with my larger views on the plot and its symbolism...namely, the whole "we're leaving the past behind and paving our own way" concepts I think were sewn into the plot.

Yeah, TFA was kinda boring at times because it was the same ****. I fell asleep during Rogue One. It's time to tell new stories.

Funny enough, I was reading how Empire Strikes Back was shat on when it first came out. So maybe this will age well for some people.

I liked rogue one....but you won't catch me arguing your take. FOH Fury.

lol. You can. I should watch it again. The fight scene with Donnie Yen was dope tho that woke me up.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Spoiler:

:lol: It's all good. Yoda's "exile" to me is more survival than anything, Lukes was not about survival. If Yoda was the only Jedi to disappear, and others did not, then Maybe, but every Jedi In the Galaxy "vanished" .He failed to defeat Sidious and there was an imminent impending doom that he deemed he could not handle (Order 66). he choose Dagobah cause he wanted to remain undetected from Vader, Palpy, Empire etc, and that planet provided him the best chance, cause Its an outer rim planet, and The cave of Evil on dagobah helped him mask his light side presence, which he learned it would do when he visited the planet to speak with Qui Gon Jin. This is very strategic. That tells you it was about survival more than anything. He also had that vision where he SAW the Jedi being wiped out with order 66 in the cave, he knew what was to come. Kenobi was protecting luke more than anything. He did not exile himself cause he failed with Anakin. That mofo had no choice to disappear That's not Exile to me. Order 66 changes Yodas and those Jedi reasons for "running away" vs Lukes. I see Lukes Exile as the only true exile of the Movies. He left the galaxy "unprotected" when there was no one strong enough to destroy him, the others did not. They literally had no choice. Jedi have failed many times in the saga. Yoda did not stop his apprentice fall to the Darkness with Dooku...he still remained.Mace Windu "Failed" with Depa Bilaba...he did not exile himself. etc etc.

Spoiler:

This is crazy to me. A slight difference in opinion on what a character might or might not do doesn't make a movie bad or poorly written. shtolky made some great points but because you don't think Luke would do this it makes it terrible. What Luke saw was some terrible ****. I don't think it's a stretch to say he'd do this.

The movie wasn't poorly made. It's directed really well, the storylines within the movie all pay off and the themes are developed throughout. The cinematography is nice, the acting is solid, I don't have any complaints because they went for something outside the box and succeeded on most accounts. TFA was basically a carbon copy of ANH. People can't let go of the past. If I wanna see a ANH, I'd watch a ANH. I don't need to see Empire Strikes Back again. Good for Rian Johnson for not taking the easy way out and take some chances. But Star Wars "experts" and readers of the "canon" think otherwise. Come on. We gotta learn to separate that stuff.

Spoiler:

That was one of a few reasons why I wasn’t a huge fan. I said it was ok/good, but far from great and not something I loved. I never said it was trash.

Good for him for not repeating the same story, yes, bad on him for making too many drastic changes.

We’re not gonna agree on this because I’m a huge SW fan having read comics, books, and watched all the series. My feelings about this are common among people like me...and yours are common for those in the other boat. Which is perfectly fine. I’ve been on different sides with people for other movies (BVS and MOS, most notably ). Allllllll good.

[j4remi]

Yeah, I understand the frustration of hardcore fans (I've had the same reaction when GoT the show mishandled book characters and plots). But I'm more casual...so I was more bored with the Force Awakens (Finn's story was the only thing that didn't feel like an "updated version" to me) than this one.

Some GOT changes/omissions from the book are frustrating or disappointing but I don't feel like they drastically changed the tone or feel of GOT. I think book-to-movie translations are one thing and generally accepted/allowed to have changes - movies based on books are just that, based on books. They are separate entities. The Last Jedi feels like a movie based on a movie. That's why some people feel this wasn't a "Star Wars movie" because it felt more like a movie based on Star Wars than a continuation of the previous movies. I do agree that only hardcore fans are the ones who'll pick up on this stuff, some of it is nuanced and some of it is blatant.

I agree about tone but where I'm drawing what I think is comparable feelings would be...when the heads here say Luke wouldn't do that, it reminds me of Little Finger lately.That's to say, for me, I rationalized why Luke behaved how he did in some scenes but every major fan is like "that's not how he would act." I think tv Little Finger felt that exact way to me. The casino planet that felt out of place to hardcore fans sounds a lot like my view on everything Dorne related on the show. It's not quite apples to apples, but I think I can relate.
Now I think I managed to do that without needing spoilers

[NBA Fan 1234]

Everyone cool with removing spoilers or should we keep it until tomorrow or through the weekend?

[IllmaticHandler]

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-the-last-last-jedi-review/

These guys nailed it with their review. I think this summarizes how a good chunk of the fanbase feels about this movie. They nitpick some plot stuff I'm not bothered by (I know what I'm getting in to with Star Wars when it comes to plot holes) but overall I agree with almost everything they say - especially with how messy the movie is, how it's over the top it is with its deconstruction of the series, and how the lack of an A-Plot/central conflict really hurts it.

"In theory, I like what Rian Johnson is trying to do. In execution, a lot of it doesn't work."

They go into detail about why the movie is mediocre from writing/plot/storytelling perspective plus what it means for the Star Wars franchise. I think they do a great job of pointing out the nuances of TLJ that really bothered Star Wars fans (characters [esp Yoda], humor, The Force, etc).

I will check it out later. I have not listened to any videos on the subject yet. Crazy how from every angle its getting bombed.

Not sure how a 93% rottentomatoes critic score and the 2nd highest box office opening ever can ever be considered "getting bombed." A lot of people didn't like it, and a lot of people did. Nobody is wrong and nobody is right. That's the good thing about an opinion. Unless of course it's something objectively stupid like "is KP an alpha?"

It is getting bombed. Cause the user score on tomatoes is not that high. Who even cares about the critic score as if its the only take that matters. You even arguing this point is futile, cause there is a huge backlash all across the net. There are articles on how big the backlash is and its being called the most divisive SW movie ever. Using Boxoffice numbers are futile with SW in trying to make a point, it will always sell very well opening weekend. There was huge HYPE for it like any SW. I mean come on its the return of Luke. I mean people have to WATCH it to form an opinion right?

[NBA Fan 1234]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

[shtolky]

I will check it out later. I have not listened to any videos on the subject yet. Crazy how from every angle its getting bombed.

Not sure how a 93% rottentomatoes critic score and the 2nd highest box office opening ever can ever be considered "getting bombed." A lot of people didn't like it, and a lot of people did. Nobody is wrong and nobody is right. That's the good thing about an opinion. Unless of course it's something objectively stupid like "is KP an alpha?"

It is getting bombed. Cause the user score on tomatoes is not that high. Who even cares about the critic score as if its the only take that matters. You even arguing this point is futile, cause there is a huge backlash all across the net. There are articles on how big the backlash is and its being called the most divisive SW movie ever. Using Boxoffice numbers are futile with SW in trying to make a point, it will always sell very well opening weekend. There was huge HYPE for it like any SW. I mean come on its the return of Luke. I mean people have to WATCH it to form an opinion right?

That's exactly right, I'm taking into account both users and critics. Neither side is more important than the other, but the critics love it. I loved it, I know a lot of people who loved it. I know some who didn't like it. Of course there will be articles on the backlash because that's going to get clicks, it's the hot topic. There are also a crap ton of articles that state why people loved it and why the backlash is silly. Again, both ways. It's clearly being overblown...if the backlash was so devastating, it wouldn't have made the money it did, and continues to make. And I've seen it twice, so I can definitely form an opinion. We differ, and that's ok. I have an issue with people being dicks about it (nobody here is doing that, but I've seen a lot of that elsewhere).

[shtolky]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

Ok, so the A rating the movie got from Cinemascore, that's irrelevant too? Batman v. Superman has a positive rottentomatoes user rating score. Need I say more. Ok I will, Justice League has a 78% user score...Just because YOU don't agree with the critics doesn't mean they are wrong.

I do agree with your last point. I don't give a crap if you like it or not, I liked it, you didn't like it as much as I did. We aren't gonna go to war here. But, there is a vocal minority on the internet taking this way way too seriously. All of our discussions on here are cordial by comparison.

[Fury]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

Ok, so the A rating the movie got from Cinemascore, that's irrelevant too? Batman v. Superman has a positive rottentomatoes user rating score. Need I say more. Ok I will, Justice League has a 78% user score...Just because YOU don't agree with the critics doesn't mean they are wrong.

I do agree with your last point. I don't give a crap if you like it or not, I liked it, you didn't like it as much as I did. We aren't gonna go to war here. But, there is a vocal minority on the internet taking this way way too seriously. All of our discussions on here are cordial by comparison.

TLJ also has a decent user score in imdb, around 7.8. This is the weirdest reception to a movie, I feel mostly because the fans are mad passionate.

[IllmaticHandler]

Yeah, TFA was kinda boring at times because it was the same ****. I fell asleep during Rogue One. It's time to tell new stories.

Funny enough, I was reading how Empire Strikes Back was shat on when it first came out. So maybe this will age well for some people.

I liked rogue one....but you won't catch me arguing your take. FOH Fury.

lol. You can. I should watch it again. The fight scene with Donnie Yen was dope tho that woke me up.

I won't thoe. Its like me arguing someone who say Ja Rule is their favorite rapper. I really can't do that. We live in a world where everyone will not see eye to eye on things. Especially when it comes to music and movies. I mean we can have discourse, but at some point, on these type of issues, we just have to agree to disagree.

Im not saying Rogue was some earth-shattering movie, but I personally enjoyed it enough to say it was not a bad movie for ME personally. I don't walk away enjoying TLJ. If you read the beginning of this thread. My hopes were not High for this film the minute the promo came out MONTHS ago. Its not as if I was some fan boy who was broken hearted cause I was hyped and saw it. Read the beginning of this thread, I was saying Rey will be trained by Luke then he will die. Same schit as ESB with Yoda and Luke. To me it was predictable what they would do. They just added way more stuff on top to act as if that would "improve" it.

[NBA Fan 1234]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

Ok, so the A rating the movie got from Cinemascore, that's irrelevant too? Batman v. Superman has a positive rottentomatoes user rating score. Need I say more. Ok I will, Justice League has a 78% user score...Just because YOU don't agree with the critics doesn't mean they are wrong.

I do agree with your last point. I don't give a crap if you like it or not, I liked it, you didn't like it as much as I did. We aren't gonna go to war here. But, there is a vocal minority on the internet taking this way way too seriously. All of our discussions on here are cordial by comparison.

Just because others have different opinions that paint movies in a better light doesn’t make them right either. BVS was killed by critics, but I loved it. The uncut edition is my favorite OF ALL TIME. IMO it’s perfect. Loved MOS and thought JL was a fun movie, but a bad DC film (release the Snyder Cut). I just think people should make up their own mind about the movies.

I’m cool discussing the movie with you guys because I like y’all, even if we do disagree. I wouldn’t be here otherwise. Didn’t I point out what I liked a few pages ago? I’ll repost to show some positivity. I didn’t think it was as bad as some are making it out to be.

[shtolky]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

Ok, so the A rating the movie got from Cinemascore, that's irrelevant too? Batman v. Superman has a positive rottentomatoes user rating score. Need I say more. Ok I will, Justice League has a 78% user score...Just because YOU don't agree with the critics doesn't mean they are wrong.

I do agree with your last point. I don't give a crap if you like it or not, I liked it, you didn't like it as much as I did. We aren't gonna go to war here. But, there is a vocal minority on the internet taking this way way too seriously. All of our discussions on here are cordial by comparison.

Just because others have different opinions that paint movies in a better light doesn’t make them right either. BVS was killed by critics, but I loved it. The uncut edition is my favorite OF ALL TIME. IMO it’s perfect. Loved MOS and thought JL was a fun movie, but a bad DC film (release the Snyder Cut). I just think people should make up their own mind about the movies.

I’m cool discussing the movie with you guys because I like y’all, even if we do disagree. I wouldn’t be here otherwise. Didn’t I point out what I liked a few pages ago? I’ll repost to show some positivity. I didn’t think it was as bad as some are making it out to be.

Right, couldn't agree more. Fortunately we are civil enough where we don't name call each other for having a disagreement on a movie. It's far better than bitching about Tim Hardaway's contract. Let's all hope we agree on how awesome Episode IX is.

I'd also knock the spoiler tags off, we've all seen it.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Ok spoilers off everyone? I’ll change the title.

I’ll make a list of what I liked after changing the title as well.

[IllmaticHandler]

I said this back in January before there was any info on the movie. Obviously, I was not correct on everything. But I was close.

My thoughts for the plot on why its called the Last Jedi, is because Rey is trained in the force with Luke, The movie centers alot around Luke,A bunch of stuff is revealed, but I think Rey runs away from the responsibility of being a Jedi. She is still a wild card. Luke Dies in the end of the movie "Last Jedi" , And Rey Assumes some big responsibility in Episode 9 (Just Like Luke did in return of the Jedi ) and uses the force etc. If they are calling this "the Last Jedi". They may be truly making the Jedi relics in the universe. In the EU the Jedi were reborn by Luke. It could be that they maybe doing the exact opposite and that what we know as "Jedi" may die with Luke Skywalker. They may end the Sith as well in the last movie.

[IllmaticHandler]

Not sure how a 93% rottentomatoes critic score and the 2nd highest box office opening ever can ever be considered "getting bombed." A lot of people didn't like it, and a lot of people did. Nobody is wrong and nobody is right. That's the good thing about an opinion. Unless of course it's something objectively stupid like "is KP an alpha?"

It is getting bombed. Cause the user score on tomatoes is not that high. Who even cares about the critic score as if its the only take that matters. You even arguing this point is futile, cause there is a huge backlash all across the net. There are articles on how big the backlash is and its being called the most divisive SW movie ever. Using Boxoffice numbers are futile with SW in trying to make a point, it will always sell very well opening weekend. There was huge HYPE for it like any SW. I mean come on its the return of Luke. I mean people have to WATCH it to form an opinion right?

That's exactly right, I'm taking into account both users and critics. Neither side is more important than the other, but the critics love it. I loved it, I know a lot of people who loved it. I know some who didn't like it. Of course there will be articles on the backlash because that's going to get clicks, it's the hot topic. There are also a crap ton of articles that state why people loved it and why the backlash is silly. Again, both ways. It's clearly being overblown...if the backlash was so devastating, it wouldn't have made the money it did, and continues to make. And I've seen it twice, so I can definitely form an opinion. We differ, and that's ok. I have an issue with people being dicks about it (nobody here is doing that, but I've seen a lot of that elsewhere).

SW is serious to me, but it's not THAT serious to me to be going all crazy about it. I already know people will Like it and disagree with how I view it. **** I loved Stranger Things 2. And some people disliked it and did not think it was good. I accept things like that in life.

[SmoothLefty21]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

Another interesting thing I noticed with RT, I went through a handful of reviews that are categorized as "certified fresh" on there and read the full reviews, RT is liberal when it comes to their classifications. Quite a few "good" reviews on RT were not overly complimentary when you read the full review. Quite a few 2.5/4 and 2/4 star reviews are marked as "fresh".

[NBA Fan 1234]

RT scores mean jack ****. GA audience scores mean more, IMO...but, honestly, who gives a **** what people think? Let yourself decide if the movie is good or not after watching AND THEN look at what others have to say.

Another interesting thing I noticed with RT, I went through a handful of reviews that are categorized as "certified fresh" on there and read the full reviews, RT is liberal when it comes to their classifications. Quite a few "good" reviews on RT were not overly complimentary when you read the full review. Quite a few 2.5/4 and 2/4 star reviews are marked as "fresh".

The opposite happened with JL. Critics who didn’t specify a score were given a rotten automatically and also if it received a 2.5 it was also given a rotten for many. RT’s system is bizarre.

[Spree2Houston]

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-the-last-last-jedi-review/

These guys nailed it with their review. I think this summarizes how a good chunk of the fanbase feels about this movie. They nitpick some plot stuff I'm not bothered by (I know what I'm getting in to with Star Wars when it comes to plot holes) but overall I agree with almost everything they say - especially with how messy the movie is, how it's over the top it is with its deconstruction of the series, and how the lack of an A-Plot/central conflict really hurts it.

"In theory, I like what Rian Johnson is trying to do. In execution, a lot of it doesn't work."

They go into detail about why the movie is mediocre from writing/plot/storytelling perspective plus what it means for the Star Wars franchise. I think they do a great job of pointing out the nuances of TLJ that really bothered Star Wars fans (characters [esp Yoda], humor, The Force, etc).

I will check it out later. I have not listened to any videos on the subject yet. Crazy how from every angle its getting bombed.

Not sure how a 93% rottentomatoes critic score and the 2nd highest box office opening ever can ever be considered "getting bombed." A lot of people didn't like it, and a lot of people did. Nobody is wrong and nobody is right. That's the good thing about an opinion. Unless of course it's something objectively stupid like "is KP an alpha?"

Disney has these critics in their backpockets

[NBA Fan 1234]

TITLE UPDATED.

Spoilers good to go.

[IllmaticHandler]

Is it me or was the Score Subpar. I kept saying the music for this was not that good.