Post game: A good win in a bad season

[newyorker4ever]

Yo Trey super positive about the future. Damn Trey. You could stay.

Been talking Trey up since before he even got called up from G-League but 95% of the people on here didn't want to listen. The kid can play. Everyone wanna say he's just a G-League guy that can't play in NBA and doesn't play any defense but he played some some good defense and has been playing decent defense since he's been here. He'll never be a great defender but he doesn't have to be great as long as he's giving the effort which he has been. We're lucky we got him for another year on a cheap contract.

[newyorker4ever]

This what i mean you guys are going overboard with burke. He can be apart of the future as a bench piece but if your counting on him as your starter going forward then you already failed.

Hes not a starter in this league. Similar to timmy he can be a great bench piece.

I think he could start and play very well as a starter but JH has already said they like him as someone who can can off the bench and score points but I think he'd be good either way. I keep looking for what the people who say he can't start in this league see but can't seem to find it.

[Capn'O]

Ehhh I thought Mudiay played well last night and when he plays confidently he's helpful because he's a good passer and a bully on smaller pg's...

What does that mean for next season though? Third stringer? He isn't a starter and if they do draft any guards who are good, when does Mudiay come off the bench? I suppose Baker could ride the pine.

Mudiay is a low IQ, lazy player who has not improved at all i his time in the league. No reason for him to be back. I'd trade him to some team for free.

I disagree with this. Recently, I've seen him less than lost about half the time. That's 50% improvement right there.


In seriousness, I would work with him over the offseason. He's probably a lost cause but in the off chance he isn't you lose nothing by giving it a shot developing him. I doubt his value is much more than getting a guy like Doug back.

[newyorker4ever]

You are right. I should know better.

can someone please just explain to me and then I'll shut up. We are tanking how do you give Hardaway 35 mins, Kanter 27 mins, Lee 27 mins

Kornet and WIlliams should have seen those mins and Hicks should have also got some PT

I'll explain it to you.....we're not tanking and haven't been tanking.

[Clyde_Style]

What does that mean for next season though? Third stringer? He isn't a starter and if they do draft any guards who are good, when does Mudiay come off the bench? I suppose Baker could ride the pine.

Mudiay is a low IQ, lazy player who has not improved at all i his time in the league. No reason for him to be back. I'd trade him to some team for free.

I disagree with this. Recently, I've seen him less than lost about half the time. That's 50% improvement right there.


In seriousness, I would work with him over the offseason. He's probably a lost cause but in the off chance he isn't you lose nothing by giving it a shot developing him. I doubt his value is much more than getting a guy like Doug back.

We have to give him the off-season to prove himself at least. It's a no lose proposition for the franchise.

I have not watched very much lately so I'll take it from you that he is improving. If so, and he can continue, then to me that represents cheap depth on the roster.

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

[Clyde_Style]

Yo Trey super positive about the future. Damn Trey. You could stay.

Been talking Trey up since before he even got called up from G-League but 95% of the people on here didn't want to listen. The kid can play. Everyone wanna say he's just a G-League guy that can't play in NBA and doesn't play any defense but he played some some good defense and has been playing decent defense since he's been here. He'll never be a great defender but he doesn't have to be great as long as he's giving the effort which he has been. We're lucky we got him for another year on a cheap contract.

Most are listening though. He is proving his worth. It was a great pick-up and a good signing.

[Iron Mantis]

You are right. I should know better.

can someone please just explain to me and then I'll shut up. We are tanking how do you give Hardaway 35 mins, Kanter 27 mins, Lee 27 mins

Kornet and WIlliams should have seen those mins and Hicks should have also got some PT

I'll explain it to you.....we're not tanking and haven't been tanking.

Truth.

And it's pretty much unacceptable to NOT tank at this point considering we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, have a bunch of young guys on the roster, and the draft is the only way to add talent this offseason.

This organization is disgraceful.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

Last week the 6th pick in the draft was a realistic opportunity. Only 2.5 games out and a tough schedule left without any real tank vs tank games.

Now, I type here as a defeated man. I hope next year we really gun for a top 3 pick.

If KP is down for the majority of the season, there is no reason to rush him back. Lotto odds are flattened too, so if we have the 4th odds, we have the same shot as the #1 worst team.

Our roster without KP is atrocious and even with another lotto pick this year it'll be terrible. A year from now I hope we are picking 1st. F this team.

This roster is atrocious with KP.
Our roster has been in shambles for 20 years.

Meh, I wouldn't say atrocious with him. With KP as the first option, the rest of the guys shift down into more natural roles. Guys like Kanter, Hardaway, Lee, Quinn, and Frank all have a place in the league. The problem is that none of them are good shot creators or actually very good at any one thing. They all are essentially role players at this point.

With KP healthy,this team is a 37-39 win squad, which is mediocre. Not atrocious. Which actually might hinder us....since we are building around KP in a sub-optimal way. Drafting in the mid lottery and signing role player to big contracts is a great way to never pair KP with the star he needs to contend. We'd have been better off without Kanter, Lee, and THJ so we won 28 games with KP or even less without him. Hopefully next season we sneak into that top 5. IDK.

[HarthorneWingo]

Mudiay is a low IQ, lazy player who has not improved at all i his time in the league. No reason for him to be back. I'd trade him to some team for free.

I disagree with this. Recently, I've seen him less than lost about half the time. That's 50% improvement right there.


In seriousness, I would work with him over the offseason. He's probably a lost cause but in the off chance he isn't you lose nothing by giving it a shot developing him. I doubt his value is much more than getting a guy like Doug back.

We have to give him the off-season to prove himself at least. It's a no lose proposition for the franchise.

I have not watched very much lately so I'll take it from you that he is improving. If so, and he can continue, then to me that represents cheap depth on the roster.

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

NO! He cannot evolve into a starter. He can't even put two good games together. He shot is broke and can't be put back together. He's low energy (lol). Can't play defense.

Just use him as a trade chip come draft day. Maybe he can net us a 2nd round pick in 2020. At best, he's an end of the bench player. Maybe we can trade him for Fultz?

[Capn'O]

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

I admittedly didn't see any time yesterday where he played. I saw him play well two games back.

Most importantly, he's making his rotations better on both ends - moving well without the ball and finding players in motion*. He tends to find opportunities within the flow of the offense which, given his driving ability, is a good fit next to Frank. Like Frank, he usually has a size advantage which can help with entry passes.

So when he's comfortable with where to be he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none, and a decent system player. Which is what I noticed from him in his waning time in Denver this year.

[HarthorneWingo]

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

I admittedly didn't see any time yesterday where he played. I saw him play well two games back.

Most importantly, he's making his rotations better on both ends - moving well without the ball and finding players in motion*. He tends to find opportunities within the flow of the offense which, given his driving ability, is a good fit next to Frank. Like Frank, he usually has a size advantage which can help with entry passes.

So when he's comfortable with where to be he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none, and a decent system player. Which is what I noticed from him in his waning time in Denver this year.

You're too nice.

[Clyde_Style]

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

I admittedly didn't see any time yesterday where he played. I saw him play well two games back.

Most importantly, he's making his rotations better on both ends - moving well without the ball and finding players in motion*. He tends to find opportunities within the flow of the offense which, given his driving ability, is a good fit next to Frank. Like Frank, he usually has a size advantage which can help with entry passes.

So when he's comfortable with where to be he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none, and a decent system player. Which is what I noticed from him in his waning time in Denver this year.

You're too nice.

Cap is gearing up for a run for the White House so be nice to him now.

[Capn'O]

Mudiay certainly doesn't make things happen like Trey. But Trey also can put his blinders on to play the two-man game instead of a 5-man offense. He makes a lot of good passes in the pick and roll and kicking out of drives but misses "hockey assist" plays moving the ball around the perimeter that could result in a 3-ball. He's not watching the motion as a play develops. It's part of why I like Trey better off the bench. You need that kind of instant offense and team command there. If he's on, you give him the lion's share of minutes.

[Capn'O]

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

I admittedly didn't see any time yesterday where he played. I saw him play well two games back.

Most importantly, he's making his rotations better on both ends - moving well without the ball and finding players in motion*. He tends to find opportunities within the flow of the offense which, given his driving ability, is a good fit next to Frank. Like Frank, he usually has a size advantage which can help with entry passes.

So when he's comfortable with where to be he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none, and a decent system player. Which is what I noticed from him in his waning time in Denver this year.

You're too nice.

I won't be if he's playing like this at the end of next season when his contract is up. Right now, I see things to work on.

[GONYK]

Mudiay certainly doesn't make things happen like Trey. But Trey also can put his blinders on to play the two-man game instead of a 5-man offense. He makes a lot of good passes in the pick and roll and kicking out of drives but misses "hockey assist" plays moving the ball around the perimeter that could result in a 3-ball. He's not watching the motion as a play develops. It's part of why I like Trey better off the bench. You need that kind of instant offense and team command there. If he's on, you give him the lion's share of minutes.

Well put. His playmaking fits the mold of "SG who can pass" to me.

[Clyde_Style]

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

I admittedly didn't see any time yesterday where he played. I saw him play well two games back.

Most importantly, he's making his rotations better on both ends - moving well without the ball and finding players in motion*. He tends to find opportunities within the flow of the offense which, given his driving ability, is a good fit next to Frank. Like Frank, he usually has a size advantage which can help with entry passes.

So when he's comfortable with where to be he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none, and a decent system player. Which is what I noticed from him in his waning time in Denver this year.

The size factor may matter even more on D if he is paired with Frank and Mudiay can make the right switches and hold his ground.

He still strikes me as a back-up even then. Maybe a good back-up, but a back-up.

I'm not certain though. I'm leaving open the possibility he was never tutored well and could still learn. Not banking on it, but I'll remain open minded about it.

[earthmansurfer]

Just give Jordan Hill time
Just give Iman Shumpert time
Just give Danilo Gallinari time
Just give Channing Frye time
Just give David Lee time
Just give Nate Robinson time

You know every single one of those players showed what they can and did become in their rookie year?

-Jordan Hill had a nice midrange jumper and nothing else. What did he show later in his career?
-Iman Shumpert showed he had no court vision, couldn't break down a defense, but he was athletic, played defense and people was high on tall point guards. What changed?
-David Lee was a rebound machine that can finish at the basket. What changed? He developed a midrange jumper, but never learned to play defense. He got 20/10 off energy which is why we got rid of him for Amare because 20 points off just being active is different than bein able to go get your own basket
-Gallinari was a 6'11 small forward with an awkward dribble that got him to the freethrow line, good passing, and a good jumper. He's still that same player.

Talent is displayed from the beginning, regardless of what the numbers say. Your eyes show you what a player is capable of. Will they become a superstar or role player remains to be seen, but the talent can be viewed from day 1. There is no player in the league that has become a completely different player than what they showed they could be or were before they got into the NBA.

Once again, debate me with facts or get off me.

You list examples of some players who didn‘t improve much. That is not proof of anything, except that these guys didn‘t improve, nevermind that 3 depended on athleticism and 2 were badly hurt.
Just stop already.

[Capn'O]

Do you think he can evolve to become a starter?

And does he do any one thing well? (because I haven't noticed it when I do watch)

I admittedly didn't see any time yesterday where he played. I saw him play well two games back.

Most importantly, he's making his rotations better on both ends - moving well without the ball and finding players in motion*. He tends to find opportunities within the flow of the offense which, given his driving ability, is a good fit next to Frank. Like Frank, he usually has a size advantage which can help with entry passes.

So when he's comfortable with where to be he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none, and a decent system player. Which is what I noticed from him in his waning time in Denver this year.

The size factor may matter even more on D if he is paired with Frank and Mudiay can make the right switches and hold his ground.

He still strikes me as a back-up even then. Maybe a good back-up, but a back-up.

I'm not certain though. I'm leaving open the possibility he was never tutored well and could still learn. Not banking on it, but I'll remain open minded about it.

I wouldn't say that he wasn't tutored as much as it takes awhile to learn the position and he's been slow on the uptake. He's learned some with Denver (I mean, look at their other youngin's development) but he's trying to play the position the way Larry Brown might teach it and he's just not that good at it yet. I could see him having a mid-career breakthrough like Billups did. At least on offense. I could also see him not have that and fall out of the league.

[GONYK]

Just give Jordan Hill time
Just give Iman Shumpert time
Just give Danilo Gallinari time
Just give Channing Frye time
Just give David Lee time
Just give Nate Robinson time

You know every single one of those players showed what they can and did become in their rookie year?

-Jordan Hill had a nice midrange jumper and nothing else. What did he show later in his career?
-Iman Shumpert showed he had no court vision, couldn't break down a defense, but he was athletic, played defense and people was high on tall point guards. What changed?
-David Lee was a rebound machine that can finish at the basket. What changed? He developed a midrange jumper, but never learned to play defense. He got 20/10 off energy which is why we got rid of him for Amare because 20 points off just being active is different than bein able to go get your own basket
-Gallinari was a 6'11 small forward with an awkward dribble that got him to the freethrow line, good passing, and a good jumper. He's still that same player.

Talent is displayed from the beginning, regardless of what the numbers say. Your eyes show you what a player is capable of. Will they become a superstar or role player remains to be seen, but the talent can be viewed from day 1. There is no player in the league that has become a completely different player than what they showed they could be or were before they got into the NBA.

Once again, debate me with facts or get off me.

You list examples of some players who didn‘t improve much. That is not proof of anything, except that these guys didn‘t improve, nevermind that 3 depended on athleticism and 2 were badly hurt.
Just stop already.

The list also doesn't include any teenagers

[j4remi]

Mudiay certainly doesn't make things happen like Trey. But Trey also can put his blinders on to play the two-man game instead of a 5-man offense. He makes a lot of good passes in the pick and roll and kicking out of drives but misses "hockey assist" plays moving the ball around the perimeter that could result in a 3-ball. He's not watching the motion as a play develops. It's part of why I like Trey better off the bench. You need that kind of instant offense and team command there. If he's on, you give him the lion's share of minutes.

Nailed it.