knicks cavs PG - start up the tank

[JBreezeNY]

if you want to play bullock and payton, fine ... just nothing over 20 minutes.

robinson
randle
knox
rj
iq
----
obi
rivers
burks(when he's healthy)

i know thibs is just doing the usual giving vets respect before completely embarrassing them. but payton stops the flow of the offense, whenever the ball is passed to him the defense resets because they know he's not shooting it.

i like bullock but dude has no athleticism to hang anymore.

your being too nice

if they were actually "true" vets I would get it. But these guys are mercenaries...they have mostly played on bad teams.

Like Taj Gibson is a vet. He is a winner that has played a role on a good team. Bullock a fine dude and what happened to him last year sucked...I'm not going to really spend much more time talking about Elf just because he is such a bum it isn't worth it.

But Rondo is a vet...he is someone that would hold value...Payton and Bullock aren't vets..they are fringe NBA players for there entire careers.

Coaches hate Rondo.

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2x champ, **** what they think.

[DaGawd]

Frank prolly played his last game as a Knick

[mpharris36]

i don't believe anything will change anytime soon. he might play elf less when quick has it going but the lineup will stay the same.

And that is why many had concerns about thibs and the timing of that hire with the roster we have.

Thibs isn't going to change the way he coaches and his comfortability with rotations.

Like the develop in many different way then minutes is just lip service. We see him playing guys 40 minutes in regular season games to secure wins. No one does that in the entire NBA but him.

[DOT]

i don't believe anything will change anytime soon. he might play elf less when quick has it going but the lineup will stay the same.

And that is why many had concerns about thibs and the timing of that hire with the roster we have.

Thibs isn't going to change the way he coaches and his comfortability with rotations.

Like the develop in many different way then minutes is just lip service. We see him playing guys 40 minutes in regular season games to secure wins. No one does that in the entire NBA but him.

He's playing guys 40 minutes in games we lose by 20 points.

[mpharris36]

i don't believe anything will change anytime soon. he might play elf less when quick has it going but the lineup will stay the same.

And that is why many had concerns about thibs and the timing of that hire with the roster we have.

Thibs isn't going to change the way he coaches and his comfortability with rotations.

Like the develop in many different way then minutes is just lip service. We see him playing guys 40 minutes in regular season games to secure wins. No one does that in the entire NBA but him.

He's playing guys 40 minutes in games we lose by 20 points.

On back to backs!

[prophet_of_rage]

Read on Twitter

I'm not a tommy dee guy but facts are facts.

People say Randle is pulling the team down but the reality is that it’s Payton. I’m so done with him. Give me Quickley, Frank, DSJ, Harper, Myles Powell over him

Payton played 20 minutes and none down the stretch. Now Quickley is healthy they are phasing him out.

The problem is Payton. It's that the starting lineup can't shoot. And the bench sorta can. It's weird.

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[prophet_of_rage]

if you want to play bullock and payton, fine ... just nothing over 20 minutes.

robinson
randle
knox
rj
iq
----
obi
rivers
burks(when he's healthy)

i know thibs is just doing the usual giving vets respect before completely embarrassing them. but payton stops the flow of the offense, whenever the ball is passed to him the defense resets because they know he's not shooting it.

i like bullock but dude has no athleticism to hang anymore.

your being too nice

if they were actually "true" vets I would get it. But these guys are mercenaries...they have mostly played on bad teams.

Like Taj Gibson is a vet. He is a winner that has played a role on a good team. Bullock a fine dude and what happened to him last year sucked...I'm not going to really spend much more time talking about Elf just because he is such a bum it isn't worth it.

But Rondo is a vet...he is someone that would hold value...Payton and Bullock aren't vets..they are fringe NBA players for there entire careers.

i am being too nice, but you have to know that's it's easy for us to say these things and it's another for a coach to do it.

coaches/managers in all sports have given mediocre vets a lengthy leash since the birth of sports, you gotta let the process play itself out -- last night payton was BENCHED.

Exactly. This a business not fantasy basketball.

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[dakomish23]

RJB

7-12 FG 2-4 3PT 4-4 FT
20 pts 4 rebs 3 asts 2 blks

Just last game ppl were screaming he’s a bust / he sucks till he finished with a strong second half. Maybe, just maybe, you should have some patience with a kid who isn’t old enough to buy a beer.

Hopefully mgmt sees the positives and isn’t so shortsighted

Randle Island remains better than I could have ever hoped for. That dunk was something

I mean he plays like 40 minutes a game he better be scoring at least 20 points. And it was against Cleveland..

That’s all it takes? Good to know. From now on play every kid 40 mins and they’ll have nights like this. Awesome

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

I'm not a tommy dee guy but facts are facts.

People say Randle is pulling the team down but the reality is that it’s Payton. I’m so done with him. Give me Quickley, Frank, DSJ, Harper, Myles Powell over him

Payton played 20 minutes and none down the stretch. Now Quickley is healthy they are phasing him out.

The problem is Payton. It's that the starting lineup can't shoot. And the bench sorta can. It's weird.

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I’m hoping last night was a sign that Thibs is considering to bench Payton. We really need a shooter like Quickley in the starting lineup. If Randle is our best shooter then it’s gonna continue to look real ugly for us.

[god shammgod]

i don't believe anything will change anytime soon. he might play elf less when quick has it going but the lineup will stay the same.

And that is why many had concerns about thibs and the timing of that hire with the roster we have.

Thibs isn't going to change the way he coaches and his comfortability with rotations.

Like the develop in many different way then minutes is just lip service. We see him playing guys 40 minutes in regular season games to secure wins. No one does that in the entire NBA but him.

i'm pretty sure he knew the starting lineup he was gonna use before training camp began. he only flirted with starting noel to motivate mitch but there was no real competition for spots.

[prophet_of_rage]

I absolutely love that we're going to waste a year of an old-as-hell lottery pick. This franchise is something else.

Why do we keep demonizing his age like damn the kid is 22. Who cares how old he is. You reach your prime at 28 and plenty of 4 year college kids have played well in the NBA. What’s the obsession with mentioning it?

Can't get hype at 22.

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[prophet_of_rage]

i am being too nice, but you have to know that's it's easy for us to say these things and it's another for a coach to do it.

coaches/managers in all sports have given mediocre vets a lengthy leash since the birth of sports, you gotta let the process play itself out -- last night payton was BENCHED.

Its a fair statement...but I would love to know a situation where giving mediocre fringe NBA players with no long term future minutes over your own controllable players has ever worked? Like is there a situation where that has benefited a coach in the past?

And this isn't all on Thibs...the fact Leon Rose decided to run it back with payton after last year is a incomprehensible decision.

it never works, but it's still a thing that's going to always happen whether we like it or a not.

it's not a knick thing, i'm sure if you search there's washed players getting playing time -- like if i was a hornet fan, i'd be fuming that rozier is starting over ball.

And yet it is working for them. Your vets are your organisation. The good vets get the kids ready to take their jobs. As far as Quickley says Payton has been doing that.

The vets are your advertisement. You want players to see you as a good employer. There's a reason players love Miami despite lack od recent success and nobody ever goes to Chicago.


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[prophet_of_rage]

UNLIKE Obi, Knox and Frank, Haliburton has been put into an important role from the start of his first season. Ten games in he's playing meaningful and consistent minutes with the ball actually in his hands.

Years later, Frank and Knox still have to be scared to mess up a rotation and be benched. I hope it's not the same with Obip, but as long as Randle is here it isn't looking good .......

We should trade Randle, then:

Quickley + Frank
RJ
Knox + Frank
Obi
Mitch

This lineup doesn’t win any games. Not sure how you can move forward if these boys go 0-60 the rest of the way.
Frank isn’t healthy - and I’m the most disappointed by his injuries - and tbh, this lineup only includes one starter caliber player (RJ).

IQ will be a good spark off the bench but he doesn’t really look for teammates. Knox can only catch and shoot.
Obi/Mitch is a terrible front court. Defensively gets pushed around, offensively hurts the rim.

I know that... I want to draft high. Finally.

We drafted 3.

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[god shammgod]

Its a fair statement...but I would love to know a situation where giving mediocre fringe NBA players with no long term future minutes over your own controllable players has ever worked? Like is there a situation where that has benefited a coach in the past?

And this isn't all on Thibs...the fact Leon Rose decided to run it back with payton after last year is a incomprehensible decision.

it never works, but it's still a thing that's going to always happen whether we like it or a not.

it's not a knick thing, i'm sure if you search there's washed players getting playing time -- like if i was a hornet fan, i'd be fuming that rozier is starting over ball.

And yet it is working for them. Your vets are your organisation. The good vets get the kids ready to take their jobs. As far as Quickley says Payton has been doing that.

The vets are your advertisement. You want players to see you as a good employer. There's a reason players love Miami despite lack od recent success and nobody ever goes to Chicago.


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it might also be that bulls have losing seasons every year and the heat don't. plus the weather.

[prophet_of_rage]

it never works, but it's still a thing that's going to always happen whether we like it or a not.

it's not a knick thing, i'm sure if you search there's washed players getting playing time -- like if i was a hornet fan, i'd be fuming that rozier is starting over ball.

And yet it is working for them. Your vets are your organisation. The good vets get the kids ready to take their jobs. As far as Quickley says Payton has been doing that.

The vets are your advertisement. You want players to see you as a good employer. There's a reason players love Miami despite lack od recent success and nobody ever goes to Chicago.


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it might also be that bulls have losing seasons every year and the heat don't. plus the weather.

The Bulls have been hated since MJ was booted. Even their players last year didn't want to play therr because of Boylen and management.

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[Reign23]

And that is why many had concerns about thibs and the timing of that hire with the roster we have.

Thibs isn't going to change the way he coaches and his comfortability with rotations.

Like the develop in many different way then minutes is just lip service. We see him playing guys 40 minutes in regular season games to secure wins. No one does that in the entire NBA but him.

He's playing guys 40 minutes in games we lose by 20 points.

On back to backs!

I'm fine with it, guys. burn them down and get more losses.

[thebuzzardman]

I absolutely love that we're going to waste a year of an old-as-hell lottery pick. This franchise is something else.

Why do we keep demonizing his age like damn the kid is 22. Who cares how old he is. You reach your prime at 28 and plenty of 4 year college kids have played well in the NBA. What’s the obsession with mentioning it?

because some people are chumps and think drafting for need is >> drafting bpa.

Good thing the Knicks did neither

[cgf]

People say Randle is pulling the team down but the reality is that it’s Payton. I’m so done with him. Give me Quickley, Frank, DSJ, Harper, Myles Powell over him

Payton played 20 minutes and none down the stretch. Now Quickley is healthy they are phasing him out.

The problem is Payton. It's that the starting lineup can't shoot. And the bench sorta can. It's weird.

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I’m hoping last night was a sign that Thibs is considering to bench Payton. We really need a shooter like Quickley in the starting lineup. If Randle is our best shooter then it’s gonna continue to look real ugly for us.

I said it before the cavs game and it'll continue to be true until IQ takes that starting spot, but what matters more than which one of them plays the first few minutes, is which one of them plays the most minutes.

I'm betting that Elf starting & playing less than IQ (or Rivers), won't be an uncommon occurrence.

[cgf]

This lineup doesn’t win any games. Not sure how you can move forward if these boys go 0-60 the rest of the way.
Frank isn’t healthy - and I’m the most disappointed by his injuries - and tbh, this lineup only includes one starter caliber player (RJ).

IQ will be a good spark off the bench but he doesn’t really look for teammates. Knox can only catch and shoot.
Obi/Mitch is a terrible front court. Defensively gets pushed around, offensively hurts the rim.

I know that... I want to draft high. Finally.

We drafted 3.

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Once.

[knicksNOTslick]

if you want to play bullock and payton, fine ... just nothing over 20 minutes.

robinson
randle
knox
rj
iq
----
obi
rivers
burks(when he's healthy)

i know thibs is just doing the usual giving vets respect before completely embarrassing them. but payton stops the flow of the offense, whenever the ball is passed to him the defense resets because they know he's not shooting it.

i like bullock but dude has no athleticism to hang anymore.

your being too nice

if they were actually "true" vets I would get it. But these guys are mercenaries...they have mostly played on bad teams.

Like Taj Gibson is a vet. He is a winner that has played a role on a good team. Bullock a fine dude and what happened to him last year sucked...I'm not going to really spend much more time talking about Elf just because he is such a bum it isn't worth it.

But Rondo is a vet...he is someone that would hold value...Payton and Bullock aren't vets..they are fringe NBA players for there entire careers.

i am being too nice, but you have to know that's it's easy for us to say these things and it's another for a coach to do it.

coaches/managers in all sports have given mediocre vets a lengthy leash since the birth of sports, you gotta let the process play itself out -- last night payton was BENCHED.

You are 100 percent correct. One full year of evaluating Elfrid Payton as the starting PG was not a long enough leash. We opted to sign him again because we kept Perry as the GM and it's clear he is obsessed with him. None of this makes sense. The fans knew Payton sucked last year but somehow management didn't know? Were they hoping that Thibs was gonna fix him? Make it make sense. Why does it take so long to bench him? He had a full year last year and we sucked. Expecting different results this year from Payton makes me think management doesn't know what they're doing.

PG was perhaps our main priority in the off-season and we failed. We've never had a top PG in awhile and it is sad.