Hamsterdam (Ex-players, s***posts, beef, etc.) Continued

[Jeff Van Gully]

injuries suck, but this run for the cavs isn't going to help with the allegations.

jalen rose just called their bigs the s word on tv tonight. and, i mean... the lights still look bright for jarrett allen.

[Clyde_Style]

injuries suck, but this run for the cavs isn't going to help with the allegations.

jalen rose just called their bigs the s word on tv tonight. and, i mean... the lights still look bright for jarrett allen.

Having an immaculate kung-fu action fro like Jarrett Allen is not enough to get the job done

DM is a front-running scoring machine who racks up numbers during blow-outs while ordering 3 am fries from Door Dash who then shrivels up into a jerk chicken wearing grandma's housecoat when the season is on the line

It might be fun though to serve the morning toast on Kenny's COY plaque

RJ and IQ are chilling out drinking off-season Mai Tais in My Hot Tub Time Machine waiting to be traded to Utah. Poor bastids. They really don't know what's about to happen to them again

[Jeff Van Gully]

injuries suck, but this run for the cavs isn't going to help with the allegations.

jalen rose just called their bigs the s word on tv tonight. and, i mean... the lights still look bright for jarrett allen.

Having an immaculate kung-fu action fro like Jarrett Allen is not enough to get the job done

DM is a front-running scoring machine who racks up numbers during blow-outs while ordering 3 am fries from Door Dash who then shrivels up into a jerk chicken wearing grandma's housecoat when the season is on the line

It might be fun though to serve the morning toast on Kenny's COY plaque

RJ and IQ are chilling out drinking off-season Mai Tais in My Hot Tub Time Machine waiting to be traded to Utah. Poor bastids. They really don't know what's about to happen to them again

well damn.

[Chanel Bomber]

I think you’re taking a lot of things for granted in this whole assessment, including trades going the way you want. However, the one person your whole argument is predicated upon is Jalen Brunson.

But before I even say anything, I think we need to establish agreement on two things. One is that Jalen Brunson is better than Mitchell and deserves the ball more. Second, the Knicks are aiming for a championship.

I had to bring up the second point because when the Knicks were engaging in Mitchell talks, I think I remember you saying something to the effect of “I just want an entertaining team.” I think that pretty much shows the mindset and assessment of the fans towards the team. The biggest difference between what we had back then and now is Brunson. We know who Brunson is now, but we didn’t back then, and the team we had back then did not match up with what the Cavs are providing Mitchell now.

The first point is also relevant. What does it take to get Jalen Brunson where he is today? I think most Knicks fans (outside of a stubborn few) and most NBA fans have Brunson as better than Mitchell right now. However, I think if Mitchell had been traded to our team from the beginning, Brunson would have been relegated to the second or third option, and he wouldn’t have had the cache to demand the ball at the end of games, as he does now. And as we know, Mitchell as a first option is kind of lacking.

Finally, I think you brought up the point that Mitchell’s career arc is better than expected and I’d say that it’s hitting expectations at best. I don’t forget how people, including some Knicks fans, were ready to crow the first time the Knicks played the Cavs in the playoffs, about how Donovan Mitchell was going to show us up. He didn’t. He’s been a disappointment tbh. What he’s done in Cleveland is no different from what he did in Utah, except in Utah, he had less talent. Still got rocked by Brunson though.

The Knicks were set out to have elite rim protection for two seasons with Mitch and Hartenstein, much like the Cavs. They also had an elite guard in Brunson, and Mitchell has demonstrated that he can play with another elite guard in Garland.

I think Brunson and Mitchell are very close as players. Mitchell is the better defender. Brunson is the better closer. The impact metrics favor Mitchell, for whatever it's worth. I think Brunson's value augments in the playoffs because of his clutch play, but Mitchell is also performing at a very high level. Just because Brunson outplayed him in one playoff series two years ago doesn't define how they compare to each other as basketball players in a broader sense.

I don't see how Mitchell as a first option is lacking anymore than Brunson. Mitchell has led the Cavs to better regular season records. Both players have yet to lead to their team to the Finals or Conference Finals. The Cavs are down 3 starters right now. We rightfully cut Brunson slack for not getting past the Pacers with an injured squad, and the same applies to Mitchell.

I wanted the Knicks to build a competitive team that can sustainably make the playoffs and thereby offer entertaining basketball. Getting Mitchell and adding him to Brunson, IQ, Randle, Hartenstein and Mitch, with all their remaining assets, would have achieved this objective. Building the team the way they did also achieved this objective. I am certainly not complaining about the current state of the team, nor am I lamenting that we didn't trade for Mitchell. I love a lot of players on our team.

But the notion that the Grimes/RJ/picks package would have set the franchise back is rooted in bad faith and is deluded in my opinion.

Sorry for resurrecting this one...just was kind of reminded of the debate we were having tonight.

In my view, these's no world where this Knicks team is better with Donovan Mitchell in the front seat. I also don't think Mitchell's career arc is not better than expected. It's basically what he did in Utah. He wins a lot in the regular season and then his favored teams regularly underperform. Yea, Mitchell and Brunson have kinda the same record in the playoffs, but context really matters. Donovan Mitchell has lost many series where he has been favored...a lot of those to Jalen Brunson himself. Luka Doncic hurt? Brunson steps up and stomps on Mitchell. Knicks vs Cavs? Jalen Brunson stomps on the Cavs again. It's not just the fact that they have the same type of record...it's that Donovan Mitchell's teams regularly underperform. He shouldn't have lost those.

That's why I really don't give a crap about Mitchell. I don't think there is a world where Brunson becomes Jalen Brunson, top 10 player today, with Donovan Mitchell on this team. Jalen Brunson became who he was because there was a void and someone needed to seize it. This team was given to Brunson only once he was able to prove he deserved it. If we went back in time and traded for Mitchell, I suspect that we would have Mitchell as option 1, Randle as 2nd, Brunson as the 3rd. In that case, this Knicks team would be worse with Mitchell as the first option and Brunson as whoever he would be in that scenario. We'd probably be losing in the playoffs again too. I'm not even sure if people saw Brunson as being better than Garland at that point. At least Garland had his 2021-2022 all star appearance.

I guess that's basically the crux of my argument. 1) We don't get Brunson as he is now, if he isn't given the opportunity to expand his wings, and 2) no way I go back in the past and make that trade, knowing that I would have to give Donovan Mitchell the ball. I would rather just have Jalen Brunson.

I don't think I'm as invested in Brunson the player as you are, and I don't think he's as great as a primary ball-handler and decision-maker as you seem to think he's is. I think he and Mitchell would form an incredibly dynamic backcourt, with some defensive frailties of course, but also more energy to spend on that side of ball and with some relief in shot-creating duties. And I don't think Mitchell is the type of player who would be reluctant to share the rock.

[KnicksGadfly]

The Knicks were set out to have elite rim protection for two seasons with Mitch and Hartenstein, much like the Cavs. They also had an elite guard in Brunson, and Mitchell has demonstrated that he can play with another elite guard in Garland.

I think Brunson and Mitchell are very close as players. Mitchell is the better defender. Brunson is the better closer. The impact metrics favor Mitchell, for whatever it's worth. I think Brunson's value augments in the playoffs because of his clutch play, but Mitchell is also performing at a very high level. Just because Brunson outplayed him in one playoff series two years ago doesn't define how they compare to each other as basketball players in a broader sense.

I don't see how Mitchell as a first option is lacking anymore than Brunson. Mitchell has led the Cavs to better regular season records. Both players have yet to lead to their team to the Finals or Conference Finals. The Cavs are down 3 starters right now. We rightfully cut Brunson slack for not getting past the Pacers with an injured squad, and the same applies to Mitchell.

I wanted the Knicks to build a competitive team that can sustainably make the playoffs and thereby offer entertaining basketball. Getting Mitchell and adding him to Brunson, IQ, Randle, Hartenstein and Mitch, with all their remaining assets, would have achieved this objective. Building the team the way they did also achieved this objective. I am certainly not complaining about the current state of the team, nor am I lamenting that we didn't trade for Mitchell. I love a lot of players on our team.

But the notion that the Grimes/RJ/picks package would have set the franchise back is rooted in bad faith and is deluded in my opinion.

Sorry for resurrecting this one...just was kind of reminded of the debate we were having tonight.

In my view, these's no world where this Knicks team is better with Donovan Mitchell in the front seat. I also don't think Mitchell's career arc is not better than expected. It's basically what he did in Utah. He wins a lot in the regular season and then his favored teams regularly underperform. Yea, Mitchell and Brunson have kinda the same record in the playoffs, but context really matters. Donovan Mitchell has lost many series where he has been favored...a lot of those to Jalen Brunson himself. Luka Doncic hurt? Brunson steps up and stomps on Mitchell. Knicks vs Cavs? Jalen Brunson stomps on the Cavs again. It's not just the fact that they have the same type of record...it's that Donovan Mitchell's teams regularly underperform. He shouldn't have lost those.

That's why I really don't give a crap about Mitchell. I don't think there is a world where Brunson becomes Jalen Brunson, top 10 player today, with Donovan Mitchell on this team. Jalen Brunson became who he was because there was a void and someone needed to seize it. This team was given to Brunson only once he was able to prove he deserved it. If we went back in time and traded for Mitchell, I suspect that we would have Mitchell as option 1, Randle as 2nd, Brunson as the 3rd. In that case, this Knicks team would be worse with Mitchell as the first option and Brunson as whoever he would be in that scenario. We'd probably be losing in the playoffs again too. I'm not even sure if people saw Brunson as being better than Garland at that point. At least Garland had his 2021-2022 all star appearance.

I guess that's basically the crux of my argument. 1) We don't get Brunson as he is now, if he isn't given the opportunity to expand his wings, and 2) no way I go back in the past and make that trade, knowing that I would have to give Donovan Mitchell the ball. I would rather just have Jalen Brunson.

I don't think I'm as invested in Brunson the player as you are, and I don't think he's as great as a primary ball-handler and decision-maker as you seem to think he's is. I think he and Mitchell would form an incredibly dynamic backcourt, with some defensive frailties of course, but also more energy to spend on that side of ball and with some relief in shot-creating duties. And I don't think Mitchell is the type of player who would be reluctant to share the rock.

Yes, I think we have differing takes on Brunson v Mitchell. I am very invested in Brunson, true. I think he deserves it. On my end, I’m not as impressed with Mitchell as you are. I think he has a reputation (clutch playoff performer) that seems very overblown and I do not think he has overachieved expectations. Because of that, I don’t think the Mitchell non-trade hurts.

I don’t think Mitchell would hesitate to share at all. However, I think your argument to trade for Mitchell requires both prime Knicks Brunson and prime Mitchell together. It’s not a matter of sharing the ball. It’s a matter of usage and opportunity.

If we could have prime Brunson and prime Mitchell and we could guarantee that, I’d say you were right in the Knicks making a massive eff-up. We’d probably have arguments about who deserves the ball more but I think we’d be in agreement that we want both on the team.

However, I don’t think we can have both. I think Brunson only became the Brunson we know today because of both luck and opportunity from the Knicks’ end. Brunson’s rise is a direct result of a void that was created when the Knicks didn’t make a move for Mitchell. I don’t think there is any timeline when we trade for Mitchell and guarantee Brunson becoming a boss, barring some catastrophic injury to Mitchell

[Capn'O]

JVG wasn't fired. he did the opposite of getting fired.

I meant when he left. It was time.

(Taking this to Hamsterdam)

Whoa whoa whoa what?

JVG was the last guardrail against literally years of ineptitude. He was 10-9 when he resigned and we finished the year well below .500. Maybe we avoid doing some of the dumb **** that we did if he's still holding power in the org.

[Guano]

Hey meLo how about these ones. You should give em a go and let us know what you think

[spree2kawhi]

Who would’ve thought that, after all, everybody was right?

[Polk377]

Sorry for resurrecting this one...just was kind of reminded of the debate we were having tonight.

In my view, these's no world where this Knicks team is better with Donovan Mitchell in the front seat. I also don't think Mitchell's career arc is not better than expected. It's basically what he did in Utah. He wins a lot in the regular season and then his favored teams regularly underperform. Yea, Mitchell and Brunson have kinda the same record in the playoffs, but context really matters. Donovan Mitchell has lost many series where he has been favored...a lot of those to Jalen Brunson himself. Luka Doncic hurt? Brunson steps up and stomps on Mitchell. Knicks vs Cavs? Jalen Brunson stomps on the Cavs again. It's not just the fact that they have the same type of record...it's that Donovan Mitchell's teams regularly underperform. He shouldn't have lost those.

That's why I really don't give a crap about Mitchell. I don't think there is a world where Brunson becomes Jalen Brunson, top 10 player today, with Donovan Mitchell on this team. Jalen Brunson became who he was because there was a void and someone needed to seize it. This team was given to Brunson only once he was able to prove he deserved it. If we went back in time and traded for Mitchell, I suspect that we would have Mitchell as option 1, Randle as 2nd, Brunson as the 3rd. In that case, this Knicks team would be worse with Mitchell as the first option and Brunson as whoever he would be in that scenario. We'd probably be losing in the playoffs again too. I'm not even sure if people saw Brunson as being better than Garland at that point. At least Garland had his 2021-2022 all star appearance.

I guess that's basically the crux of my argument. 1) We don't get Brunson as he is now, if he isn't given the opportunity to expand his wings, and 2) no way I go back in the past and make that trade, knowing that I would have to give Donovan Mitchell the ball. I would rather just have Jalen Brunson.

I don't think I'm as invested in Brunson the player as you are, and I don't think he's as great as a primary ball-handler and decision-maker as you seem to think he's is. I think he and Mitchell would form an incredibly dynamic backcourt, with some defensive frailties of course, but also more energy to spend on that side of ball and with some relief in shot-creating duties. And I don't think Mitchell is the type of player who would be reluctant to share the rock.

Yes, I think we have differing takes on Brunson v Mitchell. I am very invested in Brunson, true. I think he deserves it. On my end, I’m not as impressed with Mitchell as you are. I think he has a reputation (clutch playoff performer) that seems very overblown and I do not think he has overachieved expectations. Because of that, I don’t think the Mitchell non-trade hurts.

I don’t think Mitchell would hesitate to share at all. However, I think your argument to trade for Mitchell requires both prime Knicks Brunson and prime Mitchell together. It’s not a matter of sharing the ball. It’s a matter of usage and opportunity.

If we could have prime Brunson and prime Mitchell and we could guarantee that, I’d say you were right in the Knicks making a massive eff-up. We’d probably have arguments about who deserves the ball more but I think we’d be in agreement that we want both on the team.

However, I don’t think we can have both. I think Brunson only became the Brunson we know today because of both luck and opportunity from the Knicks’ end. Brunson’s rise is a direct result of a void that was created when the Knicks didn’t make a move for Mitchell. I don’t think there is any timeline when we trade for Mitchell and guarantee Brunson becoming a boss, barring some catastrophic injury to Mitchell

Trading for Mitchell would have been a complete disaster then and it still would be the case now. There is no universe where both could be what they are on the same team. This team is where they are now because they decided on building everything around JB and I know it wouldn't have sat well with Mitchell to take a back seat to him as it seemed was the problem with Randle as well which is why they brought in KAT who has no problem with it. We dodged a major bullet.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I don't think I'm as invested in Brunson the player as you are, and I don't think he's as great as a primary ball-handler and decision-maker as you seem to think he's is. I think he and Mitchell would form an incredibly dynamic backcourt, with some defensive frailties of course, but also more energy to spend on that side of ball and with some relief in shot-creating duties. And I don't think Mitchell is the type of player who would be reluctant to share the rock.

Yes, I think we have differing takes on Brunson v Mitchell. I am very invested in Brunson, true. I think he deserves it. On my end, I’m not as impressed with Mitchell as you are. I think he has a reputation (clutch playoff performer) that seems very overblown and I do not think he has overachieved expectations. Because of that, I don’t think the Mitchell non-trade hurts.

I don’t think Mitchell would hesitate to share at all. However, I think your argument to trade for Mitchell requires both prime Knicks Brunson and prime Mitchell together. It’s not a matter of sharing the ball. It’s a matter of usage and opportunity.

If we could have prime Brunson and prime Mitchell and we could guarantee that, I’d say you were right in the Knicks making a massive eff-up. We’d probably have arguments about who deserves the ball more but I think we’d be in agreement that we want both on the team.

However, I don’t think we can have both. I think Brunson only became the Brunson we know today because of both luck and opportunity from the Knicks’ end. Brunson’s rise is a direct result of a void that was created when the Knicks didn’t make a move for Mitchell. I don’t think there is any timeline when we trade for Mitchell and guarantee Brunson becoming a boss, barring some catastrophic injury to Mitchell

Trading for Mitchell would have been a complete disaster then and it still would be the case now. There is no universe where both could be what they are on the same team. This team is where they are now because they decided on building everything around JB and I know it wouldn't have sat well with Mitchell to take a back seat to him as it seemed was the problem with Randle as well which is why they brought in KAT who has no problem with it. We dodged a major bullet.

i don't think mitchell and brunson would have had issues playing nice together. mitchell and garland found a way to work. i had prepared my mind for a world in which we gave them the OG package PLUS picks PLUS players. all the fries you can give me type situation.

roster construction would have been a disaster for us. we wouldn't have had that young all-star waiting in the wings in our case. we would have gone all in for them, randle... maybe mitch. and **** all else. vomit.

this more sensible and steady roster construction worked out better than i think that would have.

and for all the firepower, that roster would have been a defensive disaster and laughing stock.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Hey meLo how about these ones. You should give em a go and let us know what you think

i bet those are fire

[Guano]

Hey meLo how about these ones. You should give em a go and let us know what you think

i bet those are fire

If they were in-between chocolate instead of vanilla I'd be in trouble, ngl

[Jeff Van Gully]

Hey meLo how about these ones. You should give em a go and let us know what you think

i bet those are fire

If they were in-between chocolate instead of vanilla I'd be in trouble, ngl

melo strikes me as the ghostface of oreos.

"and then you take the birthday cake and put it on the chocolate cookie instead. and it'll be like... chocolate creme. but drippin like marble cake. yoooooo, i'mma rock knickerbockers this summer."

[Meat]

If I get diabetes and I die from it, I'll make sure my last words are "this is all your fault guan0" and then die

On that note

What about these ones



Have we ever gotten a true oreo tier list. Can you call yourself the oreo King if you haven't dropped that? We need answers.

Never had those before and i don't really like pretzels so i think that would be mid

I'm gatekeeping my oreo tier list. You have to be an exclusive member of melozakistan to get access!

i hate pretzels too, these ones are **** fire

[Guano]

i bet those are fire

If they were in-between chocolate instead of vanilla I'd be in trouble, ngl

melo strikes me as the ghostface of oreos.

"and then you take the birthday cake and put it on the chocolate cookie instead. and it'll be like... chocolate creme. but drippin like marble cake. yoooooo, i'mma rock knickerbockers this summer."

Diabolical

Getting two boxes and performing surgery to create the Frankenstein god tier oreo

My insurance isn't good enough to start living like that.

[Guano]

Found meLo's twitter

Read on Twitter

[Guano]

Maybe this discussion can be shelved to the offseason but im annoyed and going to fire it off in this cesspool anyways.

we complained about beyblade Randle, his shot selection, defensive effort, and mentals/emotional instability a lot. But at least he was aggressive with it. kat flat out plays dumb. And a lot of you that gave Randle sht are real quiet when kat does dumb sht that hurts us. And what sucks is the way we use kat Randle would be better in that roll. He is a better 1v1 player. Given the option of Randle the rock at the 3point line or kat - I'll take Randle. Having a 2nd option and divo off the bench would help a lot.

Maybe im not seeing the gravity that kat brings with the 'threat' of his outside shooting. But we're sure af not seeing him make any this series. And his defense while acceptable during this run isn't great. His contest are meh, gets lost a lot, has been staying in front on switches decent. But nothing that Randle couldn't duplicate.

Truthfully im just annoyed with his game. We went from one frustrating big to another. Kat just seems to have better social skills and plays a brand of basketball nerds like.

We can just go back to blaming thibs for misusing kat. But damn get that mf a brain while we're shopping for a coach too. Cause thise two dumb fouls tonight were his fault.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Maybe this discussion can be shelved to the offseason but im annoyed and going to fire it off in this cesspool anyways.

we complained about beyblade Randle, his shot selection, defensive effort, and mentals/emotional instability a lot. But at least he was aggressive with it. kat flat out plays dumb. And a lot of you that gave Randle sht are real quiet when kat does dumb sht that hurts us. And what sucks is the way we use kat Randle would be better in that roll. He is a better 1v1 player. Given the option of Randle the rock at the 3point line or kat - I'll take Randle. Having a 2nd option and divo off the bench would help a lot.

Maybe im not seeing the gravity that kat brings with the 'threat' of his outside shooting. But we're sure af not seeing him make any this series. And his defense while acceptable during this run isn't great. His contest are meh, gets lost a lot, has been staying in front on switches decent. But nothing that Randle couldn't duplicate.

Truthfully im just annoyed with his game. We went from one frustrating big to another. Kat just seems to have better social skills and plays a brand of basketball nerds like.

We can just go back to blaming thibs for misusing kat. But damn get that mf a brain while we're shopping for a coach too. Cause thise two dumb fouls tonight were his fault.

not sure this is a shitpost. lol. appreciate firing it off here. probably could have flown in the PG/GT. but, its here now.

3/10 on messiness scale.

i firmly disagree that randle could defend as well as KAT has this series. you'd be trading something for something.

[Guano]

Maybe this discussion can be shelved to the offseason but im annoyed and going to fire it off in this cesspool anyways.

we complained about beyblade Randle, his shot selection, defensive effort, and mentals/emotional instability a lot. But at least he was aggressive with it. kat flat out plays dumb. And a lot of you that gave Randle sht are real quiet when kat does dumb sht that hurts us. And what sucks is the way we use kat Randle would be better in that roll. He is a better 1v1 player. Given the option of Randle the rock at the 3point line or kat - I'll take Randle. Having a 2nd option and divo off the bench would help a lot.

Maybe im not seeing the gravity that kat brings with the 'threat' of his outside shooting. But we're sure af not seeing him make any this series. And his defense while acceptable during this run isn't great. His contest are meh, gets lost a lot, has been staying in front on switches decent. But nothing that Randle couldn't duplicate.

Truthfully im just annoyed with his game. We went from one frustrating big to another. Kat just seems to have better social skills and plays a brand of basketball nerds like.

We can just go back to blaming thibs for misusing kat. But damn get that mf a brain while we're shopping for a coach too. Cause thise two dumb fouls tonight were his fault.

not sure this is a shitpost. lol. appreciate firing it off here. probably could have flown in the PG/GT. but, its here now.

3/10 on messiness scale.

i firmly disagree that randle could defend as well as KAT has this series. you'd be trading something for something.

I didn't want to turn the pg thread into a kat v Randle thread and wanted to vent so I popped it off here outta respect.

As for the defensive drop off im having a hard time seeing it. But I can definitely say that Randle would fill the role of 2nd creator a lot better than kat has been doing. So even if the trade off on d was marginally better Randle would still be more productive for us.

Anyways it doesnt matter. I was just pissed at kats performance last night. I'll move on.

[3toheadmelo]

Hey meLo how about these ones. You should give em a go and let us know what you think

I gave them a try and well.. I’m in the icu thanks to YOU guan0.