[Camelo Thread Part 19] - Nyets won't be used pg 52

[god shammgod]

I wonder if this was leaked to turn the PR situation back in favor of the Knicks. The PR situation was turning against the Knicks and now that this broke, I can't imagine any rational fan/analyst would crap on the Knicks for not accepting that deal.

i had that same thought. i have trouble believing that was a real request.

[eathb_au]

Because Melo wants his extension bad.

[TrueWarrior]

Denver is probably trying to scare Melo in these last few days into thinking: 'Knicks won't accept reasonable offer, lets get this Nets deal done now and move on' - but if he has come this far, there's no way he buys that.

I think a Gallo Felton Curry pick could get the deal done... If they don't bite on that, Chandler Gallo Felton Curry pick would be the final offer I see.. Either that, or taking Felton out all together and giving them Gallo Chandler Curry and a pick.... I don't see it getting done without Gallo in it, Chandler alone isn't appealing enough...

I'm expecting that middle ground to be found... but as of right now, still looks like Denver is trying to push their high offer... only a few days left.

The fact that we are talking about tossing in our 26 year old, awesome contract near allstar Felton for Billups..

The fact the giving up both Gallo AND Chandler is now percieve as a reason middle


....Means that Denver is pulling the strings here.

But then what does that say about our leverage?

Why has the middle changes from giving up Chandler, Curry and 2 picks? What has changed to make us give up two youths? Aren't we still bidding against ourselves here?

T

I was going to make a similar post. What has changed exactly from a week ago when most of the board didnt want to give up 2/3? Now we got people giving up 2/3 AND doing a Felton/Billups swap?

Paranoia. Desperation. Fear.

People are just getting scared. All we have to do is beat rental offers (there are none) and perhaps a sign and trade offer. I think Chandler/Randolph-pick/Eddy's savings is still the best offer out there. No teams want to give up anything for a rental.

Scare tactics be working on some posters here. Like you said lets hope its not on Donnie. Its all up to Melo to stay strong for 1 more week.

[seren]

Denver is probably trying to scare Melo in these last few days into thinking: 'Knicks won't accept reasonable offer, lets get this Nets deal done now and move on' - but if he has come this far, there's no way he buys that.

I think a Gallo Felton Curry pick could get the deal done... If they don't bite on that, Chandler Gallo Felton Curry pick would be the final offer I see.. Either that, or taking Felton out all together and giving them Gallo Chandler Curry and a pick.... I don't see it getting done without Gallo in it, Chandler alone isn't appealing enough...

I'm expecting that middle ground to be found... but as of right now, still looks like Denver is trying to push their high offer... only a few days left.

The fact that we are talking about tossing in our 26 year old, awesome contract near allstar Felton for Billups..

The fact the giving up both Gallo AND Chandler is now percieve as a reason middle


....Means that Denver is pulling the strings here.

But then what does that say about our leverage?

Why has the middle changes from giving up Chandler, Curry and 2 picks? What has changed to make us give up two youths? Aren't we still bidding against ourselves here?

T

Again. We are not GMing as committee here. The fact that we came to a consensus on what to give as a board has nothing to do with what Walsh thinks is a fair package. No. We are not bidding against ourselves because we are not bidding.

[K_ick_God]

Denver is probably trying to scare Melo in these last few days into thinking: 'Knicks won't accept reasonable offer, lets get this Nets deal done now and move on' - but if he has come this far, there's no way he buys that.

I think a Gallo Felton Curry pick could get the deal done... If they don't bite on that, Chandler Gallo Felton Curry pick would be the final offer I see.. Either that, or taking Felton out all together and giving them Gallo Chandler Curry and a pick.... I don't see it getting done without Gallo in it, Chandler alone isn't appealing enough...

I'm expecting that middle ground to be found... but as of right now, still looks like Denver is trying to push their high offer... only a few days left.

The fact that we are talking about tossing in our 26 year old, awesome contract near allstar Felton for Billups..

The fact the giving up both Gallo AND Chandler is now percieve as a reason middle


....Means that Denver is pulling the strings here.

But then what does that say about our leverage?

Why has the middle changes from giving up Chandler, Curry and 2 picks? What has changed to make us give up two youths? Aren't we still bidding against ourselves here?

T

I was going to make a similar post. What has changed exactly from a week ago when most of the board didnt want to give up 2/3? Now we got people giving up 2/3 AND doing a Felton/Billups swap?

Paranoia. Desperation. Fear.

People are just getting scared. All we have to do is beat rental offers (there are none) and perhaps a sign and trade offer. I think Chandler/Randolph-pick/Eddy's savings is still the best offer out there. No teams want to give up anything for a rental.

Scare tactics be working on some posters here. Like you said lets hope its not on Donnie. Its all up to Melo to stay strong for 1 more week.

Combination: Fear among Knick fans and (this is where I focus my attention) fear in Melo. Fear, as groundless as it may be, that Melo is going to lose all kinds of money on the new CBA. So that could make him take a hard look at the Nyets.

Players can always justify that they can win anywhere. Oh they've got Jay and Prohkorov, they are moving to Brooklyn, they have Brook Lopez (pinch me), etc., etc. But you can't justify that $40M is the same as $65M.

A rational person knows that Melo is not going to lose $15M if he waits till free agency. But he's probably not very rational about money. Most people are not. He's probably much more fearful than he is calm.

But fear yes lol.

[Johnny Hoops]

Some of you guys are starting to cave in and giving away (3) very good prospects in Gallo, Chandler and Randolph....along with the Curry contract throw in.

Deal mentioned initially from Knick perspective is Chandler, #1 pick via AR & Curry.

In my opinion - if Nuggets want to swap out Chandler for Gallo or Fields --- I'm ok with that.

BUT - if they want Gallo or Fields in addition to original offer of Chandler, #1 Pick via AR & Curry I need something coming back from Denver.

For me .... I'd have (2) basic offers for Nuggets to bite on......

Choose from either......

Gallo/Fields, #1 pick (Via AR) and Curry for Melo
or
Gallo/Fields, Felton, #1 pick (Via AR) and Curry for Melo & Billups

Point is -- we shouldn't give them (3) very good prospects and the big CASH savings --- too much considering we are ONLY team in the race.

[Blades Finest]

Denver is probably trying to scare Melo in these last few days into thinking: 'Knicks won't accept reasonable offer, lets get this Nets deal done now and move on' - but if he has come this far, there's no way he buys that.

I think a Gallo Felton Curry pick could get the deal done... If they don't bite on that, Chandler Gallo Felton Curry pick would be the final offer I see.. Either that, or taking Felton out all together and giving them Gallo Chandler Curry and a pick.... I don't see it getting done without Gallo in it, Chandler alone isn't appealing enough...

I'm expecting that middle ground to be found... but as of right now, still looks like Denver is trying to push their high offer... only a few days left.

The fact that we are talking about tossing in our 26 year old, awesome contract near allstar Felton for Billups..

The fact the giving up both Gallo AND Chandler is now percieve as a reason middle


....Means that Denver is pulling the strings here.

But then what does that say about our leverage?

Why has the middle changes from giving up Chandler, Curry and 2 picks? What has changed to make us give up two youths? Aren't we still bidding against ourselves here?

T

Again. We are not GMing as committee here. The fact that we came to a consensus on what to give as a board has nothing to do with what Walsh thinks is a fair package. No. We are not bidding against ourselves because we are not bidding.

+1 - Some of us posters are being manipulated by the media and are conceding without letting Walsh reveal his hand...Donnie's taking a nap..so should we

[NYK0605]

How would Chandler, Gallo, Mozgov, Fields, Curry, pick for Melo , Bullups even work?

Thats the most lopsided trade I have ever seen.

Even I, who wants him badly and no one is untouchable, that is just absolute ludacrious.

If im Donnie my final offer on the deadline is Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Curry for Melo and Billups if just Chandler and Felton couldn't get it done.

[K_ick_God]

If im Donnie my final offer on the deadline is Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Curry for Melo and Billups if just Chandler and Felton couldn't get it done.

Yeah that's a more than fair offer. Very generous actually. Denver makes out okay and we give up as much as I think anybody here really wants to. So it's a win-win. But a near-miss loss for both that just barely gives you a win -- that's how deals get made. Not what you really, really want but what you can live with.

[K_ick_God]

Question for you guys.... what would you rather hypothetically do....

Felton, Chandler, Randolph-pick, and Curry for Melo and Billups

or

Gallo, Chandler, Randolph-pick, and Curry for Melo?

In my eyes its easily the first one, because we keep Gallo but also replace Felton (who I dont like much anyway) with Billups. I think the first deal would be more than enough to get the deal done, and we get to keep Gallo/Fields/Mozgov. Hopefully we dont have to include Felton though, and can get the deal done without him.

The one where we keep Gallo. I don't see Gallo's big value with Melo but he's got more future trade value than Felton probably.

Good question though -- you are getting right at that "wrestling point" ... or where the rubber meets the road. These are the kinds of close calls that Donnie will have to sort out.

EDIT: But in your keep Gallo scenario, we trade Felton and don't get back Billups. That leaves us without a single natural PG on the roster. That's sacrificing the season perhaps.

[NYK0605]

If im Donnie my final offer on the deadline is Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Curry for Melo and Billups if just Chandler and Felton couldn't get it done.

Yeah that's a more than fair offer. Very generous actually. Denver makes out okay and we give up as much as I think anybody here really wants to. So it's a win-win. But a near-miss loss for both that just barely gives you a win -- that's how deals get made. Not what you really, really want but what you can live with.

I think we would win out on that deal easily which probably what Denver is thinking.

Billups replaces Felton

Melo replaces Gallo

Chandler is gone anyways after this season.

And Curry/AR don't even play.

[K_ick_God]

If im Donnie my final offer on the deadline is Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Curry for Melo and Billups if just Chandler and Felton couldn't get it done.

Yeah that's a more than fair offer. Very generous actually. Denver makes out okay and we give up as much as I think anybody here really wants to. So it's a win-win. But a near-miss loss for both that just barely gives you a win -- that's how deals get made. Not what you really, really want but what you can live with.

I think we would win out on that deal easily which probably what Denver is thinking.

Billups replaces Felton

Melo replaces Gallo

Chandler is gone anyways after this season.

And Curry/AR don't even play.

Denver is a bunch of jealous girls then. Felton is a good player with trade value and they are getting two other very good assets that they can use or deal. And they get a pick.

Screw them if they are thinking about how well we make out. That is so amateurish. It's business -- they should focus on what they are getting out of it.

From NY's POV, we are losing our starting PG in favor of a much older player who is near the end. And Ray is on a great contract. We are dealing away one of our better trade assets in Randolph and we are giving up two guys who play regularly, are very young still, and having their best seasons. Both guys still have big upside. It's a good deal for us but also a good one for the Nuggets. We are not giving up tons but plenty, and they are not getting tons but plenty for a guy they may lose for nothing.

[god shammgod]

just keeping you updated

wilson_chandler Wilson Chandler
n the middle of the drama im mild sauce a 6 piece harold's boss

i believe he's saying even if he gets traded, he's calm & well fed

thank you

[seren]

If im Donnie my final offer on the deadline is Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Curry for Melo and Billups if just Chandler and Felton couldn't get it done.

I would do that deal, but Denver is probably asking for the pick that is coming from AR. I am not giving up AR if Gallo is going. Just because AR is not playing doesn't mean he is bad.

I would do the deal if we replace Gallo with AR + Williams/Walker. Even two of them.

[waya]

just keeping you updated

wilson_chandler Wilson Chandler
n the middle of the drama im mild sauce a 6 piece harold's boss

i believe he's saying even if he gets traded, he's calm & well fed

thank you

Clearly he's eating some Taco Bell.

[aggo]

Hahn on ESPN 1050 at 10:20AM:
Bolding Key Parts:

- Doesn't think Donnie would ever cave, not his style, when he spoke to Donnie last night he was cool calm and collected. Donnie was enjoying taking the questions.

- From what he understands, Knicks only horse in the race. Nuggets trying to bring other teams and theres no other competition.

[b]- James Dolan not pressuring Walsh. I WRITE FOR NEWSDAY, IM NOT JUST SAYING THAT!!!!

- Says Knicks dont need cap space to get Paul and Deron, its about Knicks retaining some assets to go through same situation as next year

first of all, much props to bowl rips for doing this

and this is why you cannot trade felton. he should be untouchable. we shouldnt be resigned to the fact that gallo and chandler are likely going to have to go, but fields, moz, felton need to stay in order for 2012 to work.

we cannot rely on pure capspace by taking on billups to get us anyone in 2012. we need assets because none of those teams will allow deron, cp3, or howard to walk away free. moz, fields, felton, maybe even gallo if he is still around need to stay for another sign and trade.

the road to the big three lies in our ability to keep our young assets, not ability to renounce the whole roster.

[pak14life]

i tweeted SAS "Denver management seems like there to incompetent to get a deal done, is that Walsh's fault. @stephenasmith" and he replied "@AzazNYK no sir. That's correct."

Follow me @AzazNYK

[dancing dervish]

Well this is completely ridiculous. I don't even know if Denver is serious or not. Even if Melo was under contract for 5 more years it'd be highly debatable if it is worth giving up 4 starting calibur players and a draft pick--let alone his impending FA and desire to join the Knicks anyways.
SMH.

I'm ok with a Billups for Felton swap--I think at worst it's a wash. I'm also down with giving up Gallo because I don't think the idea of a Stat,Gallo,Melo frontcourt is appealing on the defensive end. Chandler would be the better fit IMO. Felton/Gallo/Curry+ AR pick is a fair deal considering Melo is gonna leave them anyways. They get three assets for someone that is leaving in 4 months anyways. Adding chandler is pushing it a lot and while I'd probably still go for it , it is a borderline type of deal. Asking for Fields in addition makes me think they are completely crazy.

[HarthorneWingo]

Denver simply does not want to trade with us unless they can rape us. And, they don't want to accommodate Melo by sending him to his dream team. It's looking more like if we're going to get Melo it will be as a FA. I guess we'll see what's more important to him - the money or the Knicks.

Btw, I heard this from Evan Roberts on the FAN the other day: what if the new CBA gives teams the ability to "franchise" a player NFL style?

[Knicker23]

I wouldn't say I'm fearful, but until he's in a Knick uniform I want to make it happen.... Gallo and Chandler as 2/3 has been okay by me for a while, at least as the final offer the knicks would make - and Felton for Billups isn't a huge dealbreaker for me.... I'd love to hang onto Felton, he's a lot younger, but if he has to go to secured Melo, you have to think about it..

I think a middle ground would be a Chandler, Felton Curry Pick... or Gallo in place of Chandler.... a 11th hour, desperate, real reason to think he could go / sign somewhere else offer you include both Wil and Gallo... As much as I do like Feltons youth over Billups, I still see that deal as more or less a 2/3... Or, I could see us giving up the two and holding onto Felton.