Around the NBA - Offseason Chatter

[booyaka_jones]

Tankers insisting we gon' get right next draft (they'll move the goalposts for the 2022 draft soon enough, and on and on). Rumors of one of the best volume shooters in the entire league, proven over several years, we don't want him, because as knicks fans, we only like one dimensional defenders around here, not one dimensional shooters you see. Another fruitful day reading this forum!

Eventually, and I'm probably wrong here, but perhaps eventually, some of ya'll will remove your 90's nostalgia glasses and realize this is an offensive league now. Bitching about shooters and scorers that maybe aren't Kawaii Leonard on D is boomer thinking. No one in this league plays defense, not really; no matter what your metrics tell you. Night in, night out, defensive stalwarts /teams get lit up, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. You need shooters and playmakers with a staff who puts in place as good a defensive gameplan as they can and go from there. If you were an NFL coach you'd still be trying to ground and pound too I'd bet.

[Richard4444]

Most important date of 2021 so far:

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?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Clyde_Style]

I'm really starting to think I can't be part of this board anymore. For years I heard people screaming for a proper rebuild. Now that we are doing it, we are screaming to sign free agents. We will suck this year. Maybe next. It is the first year of a real rebuild. We have never done it before. We did it one year to get RJ. The next 2 drafts are the drafts to do it for. If we get a good pick this year and possibly next we could be set for the next decade. Can you all calm it down please and be patient. Getting Chris Paul or Hayward would have helped maybe fight for an 8th seed. I wanna one day fight for championships.

I'm satisfied with the current situation going forward. No big trades was a great thing. We're in the perfect position to build a really good team over the next 2-3 years.

I feel like after we were free’d from the prospects of trading for westbrook or wall this board has actively tried to curate rumors fishing for more creative bad trade ideas for the knicks. Idgi

Too many knowitalls who know absolutely nothing. There was NO damn WB trade. I don't need new beat reporter tweets confirming that to say I told you so. I just knew it was BS and people get all wired up over this stuff. It's ridiculous

It is almost like some guys think being a Knicks fan is staying loyal to their anger and sense of disappointment and they pour all of that angst into reading the tea leaves really, really poorly.

I prefer to read the actual circumstances for their simple implications and in this case Rose sat fairly tight and unless there is one more trade before opening day there is nothing more to say about it. It is what it is and I think it is basically excellent that nothing big was orchestrated.

I do expect Rose to engineer a mega trade in the future, just not now. I really see nothing to complain about

Now if he can move Randle this next week, I'll be pumping my fist, but there may be no market for him now or at least until after mid-season so I'd rather just deal with it than make bad trades to get rid of a guy with one year left during a rebuild.

I still sort of expect a trade soon, just nothing truly epic so I'm not going to get worked up about it

[SelbyCobra]

They posted a picture of every team in their Facebook post but the Knicks. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's very symbolic of how irrelevant the Knicks have become.

There are some awesome designs in there, particularly the Grizzlies, Hornets, Nets, Spurs, Timberwolves. I actually like the Knicks design, but the black circle on the jersey is gonna look cheap af. They should've sewn the letters in all white directly onto the jersey.

Knicks aren't good, but Celtics caught a massive L here. Those look like what they'd give out to anyone who showed up to a tryout open to the public.

I think it's supposed to look like a championship banner, which I think is kind of cool. Do you see it?

I see it now that you point it out. It's just as terrible to me aesthetically though, but with a different backstory now (corniness vs. incompetence).

[RHODEY]

Fair enough, I'd support this. Top level shooters are hard to get though. I don't think that's appreciated enough around here. Obviously we don't have that.

What's more, we are paying mediocre players without any standout skill right now during our rebuild. Might as well pay someone you could still use down the road.

But if we can get a gunner of his caliber on a rookie deal, I'm in.

We need versatile players, and Buddy is not that, he's just a shooter and not much else but he's paid like a number 2 guy. I think too many Knicks fans look at all the good teams around the league, then come up with an amalgamation of all the things we need based on the things other teams have.

What we need is versatile talent, that is the path to winning, versatility and players who have unique skills that make it difficult to matchup with. What does Hield do that presents a difficult matchup? Nothing really, and he negatively impacts us on the defensive end too.

You don't need a Klay/Curry type of shooter to win the title, just good enough to make teams pay, and those type of shooters aren't that hard to find when you have the right core pieces.

As someone who would be happy if they got Buddy without giving up draft capital, I can get down with your perspective. He's certainly got flaws and hasn't been part of winning - for these reasons I have no problem leaving him in SAC and pursuing alternative routes; he's not a must have or anything to me. I think my personal pushback on the dismissal of Hield though is the idea that he's "just a shooter" as a pejorative, or that you can find dudes like him at the back end of a weak draft (Nesmith).

Hield is a pretty incredible VOLUME shooter when comparing him to everyone else in the NBA. These are the top 15 guys in the league in terms of 3PA per game last year (the only 15 to average at least eight 3PA a game), and what they shot:



Hield had the 5th most 3PA per game in the NBA last season, and among the highest volume shooters had the 4th best 3P% behind only Duncan Robinson, Bertans, and Dame. The man is another level of shooter beyond the "just a shooter" dismissal in my opinion.

Welll he is pretty much "just a shooter" but like Bertans and Robinson he' damn good in that one aspect. But as you know,those guys don't have have the foundation piece versatility of Dame.

So IMO its about priorities. Do you sacrifice some of that draft potential to get that foundation piece in the short term for that damn good one dimensional shooter- who really doesn't fit your timeline -Heild is like 27?

[Chanel Bomber]

They posted a picture of every team in their Facebook post but the Knicks. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's very symbolic of how irrelevant the Knicks have become.

There are some awesome designs in there, particularly the Grizzlies, Hornets, Nets, Spurs, Timberwolves. I actually like the Knicks design, but the black circle on the jersey is gonna look cheap af. They should've sewn the letters in all white directly onto the jersey.

Knicks aren't good, but Celtics caught a massive L here. Those look like what they'd give out to anyone who showed up to a tryout open to the public.

yeah, Knicks aren't good at all. I much prefer last years City Edition. good idea to try a black uni, but the design ain't it; don't like that it says "City Never Sleeps"

I think the Nets are a big L, that design is fugly. it's literally the work of a toddler

Suns, Lakers, Wizards, Spurs, Warriors, Heat are some good ones

Toddler? It's Basquiat-inspired, who interestingly enough painted some masterpieces with childlike style elements.

[stuporman]

Tankers insisting we gon' get right next draft (they'll move the goalposts for the 2022 draft soon enough, and on and on). Rumors of one of the best volume shooters in the entire league, proven over several years, we don't want him, because as knicks fans, we only like one dimensional defenders around here, not one dimensional shooters you see. Another fruitful day reading this forum!

Eventually, and I'm probably wrong here, but perhaps eventually, some of ya'll will remove your 90's nostalgia glasses and realize this is an offensive league now. Bitching about shooters and scorers that maybe aren't Kawaii Leonard on D is boomer thinking. No one in this league plays defense, not really; no matter what your metrics tell you. Night in, night out, defensive stalwarts /teams get lit up, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. You need shooters and playmakers with a staff who puts in place as good a defensive gameplan as they can and go from there. If you were an NFL coach you'd still be trying to ground and pound too I'd bet.

Yes, you are wrong here. People want players with a well rounded skill set on both ends of the court. Teams that get to the playoffs and win in them are almost exclusively in the top ten in defense so 'nobody plays defense' is the battle cry of losers who are in the lottery every year because winning teams play defense.

In conclusion...STFU & GTFO zoomer

[Capn'O]

I'm satisfied with the current situation going forward. No big trades was a great thing. We're in the perfect position to build a really good team over the next 2-3 years.

I feel like after we were free’d from the prospects of trading for westbrook or wall this board has actively tried to curate rumors fishing for more creative bad trade ideas for the knicks. Idgi

Too many knowitalls who know absolutely nothing. There was NO damn WB trade. I don't need new beat reporter tweets confirming that to say I told you so. I just knew it was BS and people get all wired up over this stuff. It's ridiculous

It is almost like some guys think being a Knicks fan is staying loyal to their anger and sense of disappointment and they pour all of that angst into reading the tea leaves really, really poorly.

I prefer to read the actual circumstances for their simple implications and in this case Rose sat fairly tight and unless there is one more trade before opening day there is nothing more to say about it. It is what it is and I think it is basically excellent that nothing big was orchestrated.

I do expect Rose to engineer a mega trade in the future, just not now. I really see nothing to complain about

Now if he can move Randle this next week, I'll be pumping my fist, but there may be no market for him now or at least until after mid-season so I'd rather just deal with it than make bad trades to get rid of a guy with one year left during a rebuild.

I still sort of expect a trade soon, just nothing truly epic so I'm not going to get worked up about it

There were clearly RWB discussions though. Just sounds like we took a stance of give picks or pound sand. Which, I think, was the correct stance but also one that was unlikely to yield. Houston, in particular, has limited control over their pick so they're gonna want to give this band one last swan song.

[Oscirus]

Read on Twitter

well damn leon

When the most you can get for your all star guard is a broen down player and a heavily protected 1st cuz not even the dumb teams are interested in him

[K_ick_God]

Knicks aren't good, but Celtics caught a massive L here. Those look like what they'd give out to anyone who showed up to a tryout open to the public.

I think it's supposed to look like a championship banner, which I think is kind of cool. Do you see it?

I see it now that you point it out. It's just as terrible to me aesthetically though, but with a different backstory now (corniness vs. incompetence).

If anything this is a classical style, not a city edition. They're taking artistic license.

[booyaka_jones]

Tankers insisting we gon' get right next draft (they'll move the goalposts for the 2022 draft soon enough, and on and on). Rumors of one of the best volume shooters in the entire league, proven over several years, we don't want him, because as knicks fans, we only like one dimensional defenders around here, not one dimensional shooters you see. Another fruitful day reading this forum!

Eventually, and I'm probably wrong here, but perhaps eventually, some of ya'll will remove your 90's nostalgia glasses and realize this is an offensive league now. Bitching about shooters and scorers that maybe aren't Kawaii Leonard on D is boomer thinking. No one in this league plays defense, not really; no matter what your metrics tell you. Night in, night out, defensive stalwarts /teams get lit up, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. You need shooters and playmakers with a staff who puts in place as good a defensive gameplan as they can and go from there. If you were an NFL coach you'd still be trying to ground and pound too I'd bet.

Yes, you are wrong here. People want players with a well rounded skill set on both ends of the court. Teams that get to the playoffs and win in them are almost exclusively in the top ten in defense so 'nobody plays defense' is the battle cry of losers who are in the lottery every year because winning teams play defense.

In conclusion...STFU & GTFO zoomer

I'm 36, I was very much around for the 90's I'm just saying man it gets **** old when every single possible player who shows any spark of offensive talent gets absolutely ROASTED in here. Top tier two players are VERY scarce. And even these guys are getting smoked nightly let's be honest here. Playoff teams giving up 115+ nightly

[K_ick_God]

In a weird twist it seems like Houston may have asked Harden who he wanted to play with more.

[thebuzzardman]

Tankers insisting we gon' get right next draft (they'll move the goalposts for the 2022 draft soon enough, and on and on). Rumors of one of the best volume shooters in the entire league, proven over several years, we don't want him, because as knicks fans, we only like one dimensional defenders around here, not one dimensional shooters you see. Another fruitful day reading this forum!

Eventually, and I'm probably wrong here, but perhaps eventually, some of ya'll will remove your 90's nostalgia glasses and realize this is an offensive league now. Bitching about shooters and scorers that maybe aren't Kawaii Leonard on D is boomer thinking. No one in this league plays defense, not really; no matter what your metrics tell you. Night in, night out, defensive stalwarts /teams get lit up, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. You need shooters and playmakers with a staff who puts in place as good a defensive gameplan as they can and go from there. If you were an NFL coach you'd still be trying to ground and pound too I'd bet.

Yes, you are wrong here. People want players with a well rounded skill set on both ends of the court. Teams that get to the playoffs and win in them are almost exclusively in the top ten in defense so 'nobody plays defense' is the battle cry of losers who are in the lottery every year because winning teams play defense.

In conclusion...STFU & GTFO zoomer

I'm 36, I was very much around for the 90's I'm just saying man it gets **** old when every single possible player who shows any spark of offensive talent gets absolutely ROASTED in here. Top tier two players are VERY scarce. And even these guys are getting smoked nightly let's be honest here. Playoff teams giving up 115+ nightly

This had better not be oblique support for THJr's run...

But true. People killed Burke (I did), Trier (I didn't) and so on.

[Clyde_Style]

I feel like after we were free’d from the prospects of trading for westbrook or wall this board has actively tried to curate rumors fishing for more creative bad trade ideas for the knicks. Idgi

Too many knowitalls who know absolutely nothing. There was NO damn WB trade. I don't need new beat reporter tweets confirming that to say I told you so. I just knew it was BS and people get all wired up over this stuff. It's ridiculous

It is almost like some guys think being a Knicks fan is staying loyal to their anger and sense of disappointment and they pour all of that angst into reading the tea leaves really, really poorly.

I prefer to read the actual circumstances for their simple implications and in this case Rose sat fairly tight and unless there is one more trade before opening day there is nothing more to say about it. It is what it is and I think it is basically excellent that nothing big was orchestrated.

I do expect Rose to engineer a mega trade in the future, just not now. I really see nothing to complain about

Now if he can move Randle this next week, I'll be pumping my fist, but there may be no market for him now or at least until after mid-season so I'd rather just deal with it than make bad trades to get rid of a guy with one year left during a rebuild.

I still sort of expect a trade soon, just nothing truly epic so I'm not going to get worked up about it

There were clearly RWB discussions though. Just sounds like we took a stance of give picks or pound sand. Which, I think, was the correct stance but also one that was unlikely to yield. Houston, in particular, has limited control over their pick so they're gonna want to give this band one last swan song.

For sure, but there was no deal, that's my point and people were reporting it as a Failed Plan A which I think is bogus reporting. They don't know that and it was not necessarily what they wanted for sure, but I'm sure they explored all of their options including those big hairy contracts or Hayward's. And people here were then running with confirmation it was in fact Plan A in order to villify Rose which is pretty nutz IMO

Just like the Hield rumor last night: Knicks probably did talk to SAC just like they talked to HOU to see what they wanted.

I mean that's what these FO leaders are supposed to do, pick each others' brains and feel each other out. You could be gathering small data points for a future trade as much as a current potential one. And sometimes major deals happen with no particular intent when you pick up the phone or answer a call from another club. They just talk sometimes to find out where their interests overlap

What if we did land four first rounders for a big gnarly contract? Maybe Rose bites. But that wasn't there evidently so nada

[Clyde_Style]

Knicks aren't good, but Celtics caught a massive L here. Those look like what they'd give out to anyone who showed up to a tryout open to the public.

yeah, Knicks aren't good at all. I much prefer last years City Edition. good idea to try a black uni, but the design ain't it; don't like that it says "City Never Sleeps"

I think the Nets are a big L, that design is fugly. it's literally the work of a toddler

Suns, Lakers, Wizards, Spurs, Warriors, Heat are some good ones

Toddler? It's Basquiat-inspired, who interestingly enough painted some masterpieces with childlike style elements.

That's cool. I love Basquiat. I like the jersey and approve of looser design concepts. More abstract expressionism, less heraldry

[stuporman]

Tankers insisting we gon' get right next draft (they'll move the goalposts for the 2022 draft soon enough, and on and on). Rumors of one of the best volume shooters in the entire league, proven over several years, we don't want him, because as knicks fans, we only like one dimensional defenders around here, not one dimensional shooters you see. Another fruitful day reading this forum!

Eventually, and I'm probably wrong here, but perhaps eventually, some of ya'll will remove your 90's nostalgia glasses and realize this is an offensive league now. Bitching about shooters and scorers that maybe aren't Kawaii Leonard on D is boomer thinking. No one in this league plays defense, not really; no matter what your metrics tell you. Night in, night out, defensive stalwarts /teams get lit up, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. You need shooters and playmakers with a staff who puts in place as good a defensive gameplan as they can and go from there. If you were an NFL coach you'd still be trying to ground and pound too I'd bet.

Yes, you are wrong here. People want players with a well rounded skill set on both ends of the court. Teams that get to the playoffs and win in them are almost exclusively in the top ten in defense so 'nobody plays defense' is the battle cry of losers who are in the lottery every year because winning teams play defense.

In conclusion...STFU & GTFO zoomer

I'm 36, I was very much around for the 90's I'm just saying man it gets **** old when every single possible player who shows any spark of offensive talent gets absolutely ROASTED in here. Top tier two players are VERY scarce. And even these guys are getting smoked nightly let's be honest here. Playoff teams giving up 115+ nightly

Well, since you are so old maybe you are acquainted with the term 'strawman'..... which you are constructing here for the purpose of arguing against.

"every single possible player who shows any spark of offensive talent gets absolutely ROASTED in here"

and

"Top tier two players are VERY scarce"

These are your two main assertions here that are absolutely scarecrow inspired....People don't roast in the way you say people do of every single player who shows any offensive spark and some are totally aware that the top tier two way players are scarce.

This is why the more insightful of us on here have a view of it that includes context. How much and how long are the contracts? Is this guy coming off the bench or starter? Are they supposed to be a foundation piece or complementary? Do they have some skills in both ends even though they may not be 'top tier' in either one? What is the impact on long term of the franchise?

It's just not a matter of 'Knicks need shooting and this guy shoots good so the Knicks need to get them' without any of that other context that contributes to building a winning roster and allowing that roster to succeed in the playoffs. Context matters.

[Capn'O]

Spoiler:

Too many knowitalls who know absolutely nothing. There was NO damn WB trade. I don't need new beat reporter tweets confirming that to say I told you so. I just knew it was BS and people get all wired up over this stuff. It's ridiculous

It is almost like some guys think being a Knicks fan is staying loyal to their anger and sense of disappointment and they pour all of that angst into reading the tea leaves really, really poorly.

I prefer to read the actual circumstances for their simple implications and in this case Rose sat fairly tight and unless there is one more trade before opening day there is nothing more to say about it. It is what it is and I think it is basically excellent that nothing big was orchestrated.

I do expect Rose to engineer a mega trade in the future, just not now. I really see nothing to complain about

Now if he can move Randle this next week, I'll be pumping my fist, but there may be no market for him now or at least until after mid-season so I'd rather just deal with it than make bad trades to get rid of a guy with one year left during a rebuild.

I still sort of expect a trade soon, just nothing truly epic so I'm not going to get worked up about it

There were clearly RWB discussions though. Just sounds like we took a stance of give picks or pound sand. Which, I think, was the correct stance but also one that was unlikely to yield. Houston, in particular, has limited control over their pick so they're gonna want to give this band one last swan song.

For sure, but there was no deal, that's my point and people were reporting it as a Failed Plan A which I think is bogus reporting. They don't know that and it was not necessarily what they wanted for sure, but I'm sure they explored all of their options including those big hairy contracts or Hayward's. And people here were then running with confirmation it was in fact Plan A in order to villify Rose which is pretty nutz IMO

Just like the Hield rumor last night: Knicks probably did talk to SAC just like they talked to HOU to see what they wanted.

I mean that's what these FO leaders are supposed to do, pick each others' brains and feel each other out. You could be gathering small data points for a future trade as much as a current potential one. And sometimes major deals happen with no particular intent when you pick up the phone or answer a call from another club. They just talk sometimes to find out where their interests overlap

What if we did land four first rounders for a big gnarly contract? Maybe Rose bites. But that wasn't there evidently so nada

I didn't get the sense that there was a ranked plan. Basically a set of criteria to move from. Not taking on bad salary without a significant asset seemed to be a piece of it. I wonder how serious we were about getting Hayward. It seemed like in some cases we were just acting to drive up values but it's hard to tell. That would have been a smart thing to do anyway.

[snadler]

Which if any of the 1 year free agent deals that Knicks signed will have any trade value at the deadline?

[Capn'O]

Which if any of the 1 year free agent deals that Knicks signed will have any trade value at the deadline?

Rivers, if he produces. Very team friendly contract. Potentially Burks or Noel.

[iLLmatic860]

Which if any of the 1 year free agent deals that Knicks signed will have any trade value at the deadline?

Noel rivers