Knicks Mavs PG: The friends along the way

[2010]

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Oh man, look at you guys! You look great. This is great! Congratulations. Love it. Expecially, the face hat. But I have a better idea, a Mexican wrestling mask.

Yes, I was saying this on the game thread. This kid is exactly what we need. Leon's first NBA was Rick, Jalen's dad. If Leon can't use his connection with his dad and the Brunson family to get Jalen to come to NY, then what good was bringing Leon here?

I have to get some kit to participate, like a mic and a cam.

Also, I need one of the following. Which one should I choose?

Plague doc and it’s not even close!

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks stay a joke as usual.

Didn't watch one second of the game by this buttf*ck franchise, but box score watching it looks like the Knicks guards/wings had yet another scintillating effort.
Other than the aged Alec Burks

Oh, and the 2nd game in a row where the Knicks are fighting for their playoff lives and RJ Barrett laid an egg.

Barret's new knickname is RJ3, because he's clearly just a 3rd option, he of the slow robot mechanical moves.

Also, yet again, I fell for the Knicks bullsh*t.

I thought they were doing a better job with a new FO, but it's really the same exact thing as the last 3 years.

Sign 1 year bums.
Win enough games to destroy draft position
Go into the draft and f*ck it up or have luck f*ck it up (hi RJ!)
Save $ for "the big FA's"
Don't sign any FA's worth a f*ck
Repeat

Only difference this year is the coach can actually coach defense very well but he's still a maniacal penquin whose rotations suck, but then again, 3/4's of the players suck, so maybe it's not his fault. Would have to wait until how Thibs looks with a good roster but the chance to conduct that half of the experiment will never come.

Oh, and IQ hasn't looked that impressive since the AS break.
He's "ok". Another overhyped Knicks rookie by the fans.
Which is understandable, since he's actually an NBA player, unlike Frank, Knox or Obi.

Everyone is ignoring this. IQ hasn't looked good at all since the AS break. Is he really that good? We might have overhyped a player that in reality isn't all that special.

I was kind of venting.

IQ has been legit. He's a real NBA player. We probably all got a little carried away, but he's got a swagger and ability that says "I belong"

On the other hand, we all probably over hyped a bit, as we do.

IQ is being gameplanned for, so another adjustment for him. Seems like RJ, a guy who'll do that. Also, rookie wall might be appearing .

[Clyde_Style]

Knicks stay a joke as usual.

Didn't watch one second of the game by this buttf*ck franchise, but box score watching it looks like the Knicks guards/wings had yet another scintillating effort.
Other than the aged Alec Burks

Oh, and the 2nd game in a row where the Knicks are fighting for their playoff lives and RJ Barrett laid an egg.

Barret's new knickname is RJ3, because he's clearly just a 3rd option, he of the slow robot mechanical moves.

Also, yet again, I fell for the Knicks bullsh*t.

I thought they were doing a better job with a new FO, but it's really the same exact thing as the last 3 years.

Sign 1 year bums.
Win enough games to destroy draft position
Go into the draft and f*ck it up or have luck f*ck it up (hi RJ!)
Save $ for "the big FA's"
Don't sign any FA's worth a f*ck
Repeat

Only difference this year is the coach can actually coach defense very well but he's still a maniacal penquin whose rotations suck, but then again, 3/4's of the players suck, so maybe it's not his fault. Would have to wait until how Thibs looks with a good roster but the chance to conduct that half of the experiment will never come.

Oh, and IQ hasn't looked that impressive since the AS break.
He's "ok". Another overhyped Knicks rookie by the fans.
Which is understandable, since he's actually an NBA player, unlike Frank, Knox or Obi.

Everyone is ignoring this. IQ hasn't looked good at all since the AS break. Is he really that good? We might have overhyped a player that in reality isn't all that special.

I was kind of venting.

IQ has been legit. He's a real NBA player. We probably all got a little carried away, but he's got a swagger and ability that says "I belong"

On the other hand, we all probably over hyped a bit, as we do.

IQ is being gameplanned for, so another adjustment for him. Seems like RJ, a guy who'll do that. Also, rookie wall might be appearing .

IQ is crafty and he'll learn he can't substitute trick moves for good judgment. His upside as a prolific scorer is definitely real.

[thebuzzardman]

There are some Knicks fans that want him on the team simply for no other reason than him being from New Jersey and his dad being a Knicks fan.

KAT is in a bad situation for years now. I know his D is not good, but I think that would change in a different scenery. And even if its just average, his offense and rebounding are so great, he could AT LEAST be the 2nd option on a contender.
Even on a **** team, while suffering from covid and injuries he is putting up 24.1 pts / 11.9 reb / 4.3 ast / 1.6 blk on 48.9 %FG / 38.7% 3FG / 87% FT at 25 years old.
Would trade for him right away if we could.

Did you forget where you are? KAT is a bum and is washed up (says a lot of people on here). No, he's still a fantastic player, and would look 10 times better if he was on a winning team. I'd take him in a heartbeat if we could somehow pry him away without giving up the farm.

KAT is kind of a weird case, and personally, I wouldn't pretend to know.

He's never impressed me that much on defense, overall, but I know he's capable at times.
He's clearly skilled offensively - from the jump, day 1, but now he's added the 3 and even improved on his passing.
BUT
He takes a lot of plays off defensively
He seems to give possessions away hoisting up 3's early in the shot clocks and just doing like...3 or 4 lackadaisical offensive possessions per game, whenever I've seen him.

Without getting all psychological, it's like he's really really good without the will to be great.

Makes me think that's why he loves Minny. Big fish, small pond, low pressure.

[thebuzzardman]

Everyone is ignoring this. IQ hasn't looked good at all since the AS break. Is he really that good? We might have overhyped a player that in reality isn't all that special.

I was kind of venting.

IQ has been legit. He's a real NBA player. We probably all got a little carried away, but he's got a swagger and ability that says "I belong"

On the other hand, we all probably over hyped a bit, as we do.

IQ is being gameplanned for, so another adjustment for him. Seems like RJ, a guy who'll do that. Also, rookie wall might be appearing .

IQ is crafty and he'll learn he can't substitute trick moves for good judgment. His upside as a prolific scorer is definitely real.

I think he shows up next year with a mid range jumper and is downright dangerous.

[knicksNOTslick]

It's crazy how recent struggles has fans already down on RJ and IQ. Both of them are young, a rookie and a sophomore in the league, and people are already expecting them to be consistently good. I guess the same goes for Randle as well. It's a long season and they'll have games like these since the coach is playing Randle and RJ too many minutes and IQ is still a rookie. Just be patient. Management don't care about the season's results anyways. The lack of movement means the Knicks fromt office will ride with the current team regardless of the results and upgrade in the offseason.

[HighRyzer83]

Yeah I'm convinced obi would be in the ROY running if it wasn't for thibs

[Clyde_Style]

It's crazy how recent struggles has fans already down on RJ and IQ. Both of them are young, a rookie and a sophomore in the league, and people are already expecting them to be consistently good. I guess the same goes for Randle as well. It's a long season and they'll have games like these since the coach is playing Randle and RJ too many minutes and IQ is still a rookie. Just be patient. Management don't care about the season's results anyways. The lack of movement means the Knicks fromt office will ride with the current team regardless of the results and upgrade in the offseason.

There are a large amount of people here who seem ready to bury RJ when he's not playing well. I think he's going to be fine. He plays too many minutes and without the benefit of a legit PG.

[HarthorneWingo]

Yeah I'm convinced obi would be in the ROY running if it wasn't for thibs

C'mon, no you're not. Really?

[HarthorneWingo]

It's crazy how recent struggles has fans already down on RJ and IQ. Both of them are young, a rookie and a sophomore in the league, and people are already expecting them to be consistently good. I guess the same goes for Randle as well. It's a long season and they'll have games like these since the coach is playing Randle and RJ too many minutes and IQ is still a rookie. Just be patient. Management don't care about the season's results anyways. The lack of movement means the Knicks fromt office will ride with the current team regardless of the results and upgrade in the offseason.

We just get triggered when we see regression in any form. Do you blame us?

[HarthorneWingo]

...

[HighRyzer83]

Yeah I'm convinced obi would be in the ROY running if it wasn't for thibs

C'mon, no you're not. Really?

Indeed I am. There were plenty of games where he clearly showed flashes. Like all rookies he makes mistakes, but unlike all rookies he gets pulled immediately. This destroys all momentum and confidence. As oppose to building on it. Imagine if haliburton got pulled the second he committed his first TO. He would average like 5 min pg.

We won't know what we have in obi until he gets real time. The little we do know, he has the potential.

[HarthorneWingo]

Yeah I'm convinced obi would be in the ROY running if it wasn't for thibs

C'mon, no you're not. Really?

Indeed I am. There were plenty of games where he clearly showed flashes. Like all rookies he makes mistakes, but unlike all rookies he gets pulled immediately. This destroys all momentum and confidence. As oppose to building on it. Imagine if haliburton got pulled the second he committed his first TO. He would average like 5 min pg.

We won't know what we have in obi until he gets real time. The little we do know, he has the potential.

I'm still not convinced but I'd like to be convinced. He's a good kid and a local product. So I'd really like to see him succeed. It's hard not to root for him.

[Chanel Bomber]

Knicks fans have to stop romanticizing about the draft. Players like Doncic and Zion that can impact the game from day one are very rare. We can not choose to lose all every year to try to grab one of them. Besides, we have to rely on ping pong balls and the tanking competition uses to be great.

The majority of the future stars plays like RJ and Randle at their beginning of the career and we need patience with them. They will not change the franchise overnight and if we grab them we would create threads asking if they are as busts.

The majority of tanking teams fail. The process takes years and they keep losing and losing. And the process is excruciating to the fans. And bad for business (attendance, merchandising).

No one will trade a top5 pick for a UFA 2022 Randle. Especially a small market team will not choose a player who they can't control after one year over one player who they have a 7/8-year control.

The knicks are in a really good spot right now. Their core is relatively cheap and we have a lot of picks. We can make smarts signs and trades to improve the team. We probably will not turn into contenders overnight. But if we stay competitive we will attract stars in the FA market or trade market. Every team is complaining that almost every star wants to play in New York and I am sure that is not because of the color of the shirt. If we stay respectable and competitive, we will attract our share of stars.

Which stars though?

There's no All-NBA caliber player on the free agency horizon.

Most superstars are under contract for a few more years, happy where they are or just old.

The obvious path to winning a championship is to acquire a superstar, if not a few. Even that doesn't guarantee you a championship, but it's the road a franchise needs to take. The 2004 Pistons, 2014 Spurs and 2020 Heat are the exception, not the rule. And even though I love RJ, and Randle's a legit All-Star, there simply isn't that superstar talent on the Knicks roster that can score uber-efficiently and have the gravity to make defenses pay with his playmaking.

The Knicks are in an ok spot. Not good, not bad, just ok. Granted, this is an improvement over the last 8 years, but the franchise is kinda trapped right now, hence the Orlando Magic analogy.

First, we cant behave like a drunk cockroach. A year trying to tank and failing. Next year trying to compete, give up and start tanking again. We signed Thibs and improve a lot as a team. We cant reset and start tanking again throwing away all the evolution. It's a lot harder to tank now. If we go that will, we will fail in both strategies.

Second, we have cap space. We have room to improve. Signing young high potential players is a way of capitalizing value. They may evolve into all starts. Or we can put them in a package in a future trade for an all-star.

Third, playing in New York is a factor that moves stars. We have a competitive advantage that small-market teams don't have. They need to tank until getting a Zion or a LaMello. If we create competitive teams, stars will show. It can take time. But building to the draft with high picks also takes time. One thing that this franchise lacks is respectability.

Forth, I am against bold moves in this stage of evolution. Improving slowly, we probably still be a lottery team and could grab a nice prospect. I know he is not a cant-miss player Top3 or Top5, but a Top 10-14 player has almost as much potential as a Top6.

I didn't say anything about which direction the Knicks should go.

I was merely attempting to list our options in terms of acquiring a superstar. That's likely what it will take to lift this franchise to title contention. I didn't say we should tank, or trade our assets for a star, or any of that.

You didn't answer which superstar the Knicks could realistically sign in free agency in the next 5 years by the way.

[bleedblue3303]

People get so caught up on the draft it’s crazy.. even acquiring a star talent in the draft.. if you’re in that position to begin with your team will take a while before it’s good enough to even think about championships. That player you draft likely will be off their rookie contract by the time you can entertain that thought

I would pull a Lakers/LeBron any day.

Get a star player and trade the assets to build a big 3, that should be the ideal way. Not constantly tanking and stacking up assets that become useless.

I’d rather draft a Tim Duncan type player and build a team around him for the life of his career than sign an aging vet superstar and then trade all of your draft capital for another superstar so you can have a short window of success. Sure you might get lucky and win a championship, but you’re guaranteed to suck for a long time after your run is over with.

Besides if we see Randle as a long term piece, which has been reported, we’re probably maxing him after next year. We’re probably paying mitch this summer. Then RJ’s max is coming up. Even if signing a superstar is feasible cap wise I think they’ll probably be better options available than to team up with Randle and RJ.

I think we could have had it all if we would have tanked the minute the allstar break was over. Potentially draft that talent. Resign Randle, and after next season sign a superstar to play with Randle, RJ,and our drafted star on a rookie contract. I always said the goal this year was to show we are a stable organization that can stay out of the backpage of the paper not make the playoffs at all costs.

[rajajackal]

i can't wrap my head around how many times clyde has used the word "ominpotent" to describe elfrid payton. breaks my heart to see him used to spew propaganda like this

[mpharris36]

Just going to state this now...I know Jalen Brunson contract is odd the next year...but I want him on the Knicks. He has huge ties to Leon Rose and he's really good. This is a realistic option of a guy I would want starting at PG for us moving forward.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Just going to state this now...I know Jalen Brunson contract is odd the next year...but I want him on the Knicks. He has huge ties to Leon Rose and he's really good. This is a realistic option of a guy I would want starting at PG for us moving forward.

Yea, he has carved out a really nice career. Just a real smart and savy player that is extremely efficient. Does a lot of things well that we could use. Small sample size, but in 10 games as a starter avg 17ppg with crazy efficiency

He won't be a free agent until 2022 though?

[mpharris36]

Just going to state this now...I know Jalen Brunson contract is odd the next year...but I want him on the Knicks. He has huge ties to Leon Rose and he's really good. This is a realistic option of a guy I would want starting at PG for us moving forward.

Yea, he has carved out a really nice career. Just a real smart and savy player that is extremely efficient. Does a lot of things well that we could use. Small sample size, but in 10 games as a starter avg 17ppg with crazy efficiency

He won't be a free agent until 2022 though?

yes but the good thing because the way the mavs structured the contract (and his agent) it wont be a player option for the 4th year it was a non guaranteed 4th year. He wont be a RFA like Mitch. Brunson for all intensive purposes is an UFA in 2022.

For example I would easily trade the mavs first rounder back to get Brunson (in the offseason) so that we can work on a deal to agree and sign him into cap space for example.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Just going to state this now...I know Jalen Brunson contract is odd the next year...but I want him on the Knicks. He has huge ties to Leon Rose and he's really good. This is a realistic option of a guy I would want starting at PG for us moving forward.

Yea, he has carved out a really nice career. Just a real smart and savy player that is extremely efficient. Does a lot of things well that we could use. Small sample size, but in 10 games as a starter avg 17ppg with crazy efficiency

He won't be a free agent until 2022 though?

yes but the good thing because the way the mavs structured the contract (and his agent) it wont be a play option for the 4th year it was a non guaranteed 4th year. He wont be a RFA like Mitch. Brunson for all intensive purposes is an UFA in 2022.

For example I would easily trade the mavs first rounder back to get Brunson (in the offseason) so that we can work on a deal to agree and sign him into cap space for example.

I wonder what the Mavs plans are and if they would trade him? Or what kind of contract he will be looking at in '22? I dont even think we could get him for the Mavs pick though. If they did trade him, they would probably want a player that can help them win now.

Knicks obviously have a line into Brunson so maybe he would want to come as UFA. But then it also depends on the price and who else we may get.