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PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted

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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#361 » by sol537 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:34 pm

moocow007 wrote:
sol537 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:"Best record in a month since 1994"

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, the Knicks went to the NBA Finals in 1994.

As far as what next? Still look to make a trade to get another impact talent. Now is the best time cause the Knicks won't come off as desperate for another player. But absolutely, absolutely, they need more talent. A potent shot creator off the bench (primary scorer, secondary facilitator). Someone that can carry the scoring load without needing Brunson and Randle to be always on the floor and always productive and always healthy.


But this new player has to "fit" the culture... has to play defense... has to have a good 3pt shot... and can't take the ball out of Brunson's hands too much while also not upsetting the delicate balance / rotation Thibs has created... It's a tall ask.

Caruso is my #1 choice. I'm a nut for hard-nosed versatile defense. I would try to get him without using Grimes or Fournier so that we could roll Fournier over to next year.

Brogdon is my #2 choice.

I either scenario, I would keep Grimes at all costs. I don't want Murray because his defense isn't what we need and he may disrupt what we have going here... Same goes for Sexton, Clarkson, etc. I'm sure the front office agrees.


I think if this team was dysfunctional and lacked leadership (bench and in uniform) then yes absolutely, you need to be a lot more careful of who you add. But this team is bigger than anyone that they are going to bring in so I don't think there will be too much of a issue with many of the guys being mentioned and they need to focus more on talent and what that player does best to what they need most. They need a shot creator most. Not a shooter. They have goes that can shoot a spot up or corner 3. They just don't have anyone that can draw the defenders away from those spot up shooters so that when they do take a shot it's a higher percentage shot. Shooting 3's doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not just about only looking for professional 3 point shooters. it's about open shots and higher percentage shots. Same with defense. The Knicks have plenty of defensive players now. So a elite shot creator that can create his own shot, that can draw defenses and then either score or dish is what they need most. There is a reason that Thibs is riding Brunson and Randle so much. It's not cause he's sadistic. It's because he knows he doesn't have a great offensive system and needs to rely on top tier shot creators to provide that offense. Without anyone off the bench that can do that consistently when push comes to shove, THAT is THE reason why he's playing them so much. Think about it. It's certainly not for their defense right? So the need for that 3rd dominant offensive player (an absolute proven shot creator) is their biggest need for so many different reasons that folks may not be seeing. So who are the top available shot creators and secondary facilitators out there on the market? Those are the guys they need to focus on. They don't need another Bruce Brown.


Agreed... but who? Sounds like you're advocating for Murray...

I'd rather the lower cost, lower risk Caruso or Brogdon... Much easier to slot into what we're already doing...
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#362 » by Capn'O » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:34 pm

I tried to do one of those animorphs things but it was ****. Anyway, Thibs is turning iHart into Joakim Noah.
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#363 » by F N 11 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:40 pm

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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#364 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:40 pm

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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#365 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:46 pm

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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#366 » by F N 11 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:51 pm

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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#367 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:53 pm

We could use a bench scorer, but we could just be better off long term letting Grimes and Deuce play. They have been flashing signs, and our depth has really stepped up when others have missed time.

We could be better off saving our assets for a legit difference maker while letting Grimes and Deuce possibly increase their value
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#368 » by moocow007 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:53 pm

sol537 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
sol537 wrote:
But this new player has to "fit" the culture... has to play defense... has to have a good 3pt shot... and can't take the ball out of Brunson's hands too much while also not upsetting the delicate balance / rotation Thibs has created... It's a tall ask.

Caruso is my #1 choice. I'm a nut for hard-nosed versatile defense. I would try to get him without using Grimes or Fournier so that we could roll Fournier over to next year.

Brogdon is my #2 choice.

I either scenario, I would keep Grimes at all costs. I don't want Murray because his defense isn't what we need and he may disrupt what we have going here... Same goes for Sexton, Clarkson, etc. I'm sure the front office agrees.


I think if this team was dysfunctional and lacked leadership (bench and in uniform) then yes absolutely, you need to be a lot more careful of who you add. But this team is bigger than anyone that they are going to bring in so I don't think there will be too much of a issue with many of the guys being mentioned and they need to focus more on talent and what that player does best to what they need most. They need a shot creator most. Not a shooter. They have goes that can shoot a spot up or corner 3. They just don't have anyone that can draw the defenders away from those spot up shooters so that when they do take a shot it's a higher percentage shot. Shooting 3's doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not just about only looking for professional 3 point shooters. it's about open shots and higher percentage shots. Same with defense. The Knicks have plenty of defensive players now. So a elite shot creator that can create his own shot, that can draw defenses and then either score or dish is what they need most. There is a reason that Thibs is riding Brunson and Randle so much. It's not cause he's sadistic. It's because he knows he doesn't have a great offensive system and needs to rely on top tier shot creators to provide that offense. Without anyone off the bench that can do that consistently when push comes to shove, THAT is THE reason why he's playing them so much. Think about it. It's certainly not for their defense right? So the need for that 3rd dominant offensive player (an absolute proven shot creator) is their biggest need for so many different reasons that folks may not be seeing. So who are the top available shot creators and secondary facilitators out there on the market? Those are the guys they need to focus on. They don't need another Bruce Brown.


Agreed... but who? Sounds like you're advocating for Murray...

I'd rather the lower cost, lower risk Caruso or Brogdon... Much easier to slot into what we're already doing...


Cost is relative. If I can get a great player or a great asset for 70 cents on the dollar or a lesser player for 80 cents on the dollar, i may be worth going with the greater player even if it'll cost me $7 to get a $10 player vs. $4 to get a $5 player. Then there's the cost of not given your team the very best chance to win (which is what the better player would do, on paper).

I don't want a role player that can just add depth. I certainly don't want a role player that can't do what this team needs most really really well. So of the guys who's names have been mentioned as possible options that aren't broken (injured, now or perpetually or has a history of it) who are top end shot creators. So Murray, Derozan, Kuzma are the current starter level players that have been mentioned that are who I would consider top end shot creators. They each have their warts which I think folks are stuck on. But for me, the question is, who can I get for the best pennies on the dollar deal given that even among this group there are different dollar values attached to each. Yes there's the bench and/or role concern. But again it goes to when things are going great people complain less. Murray I would expect would start then you stagger him so one of the "Big 3" would always be on the floor. Kuzma also would start, for now, until Randle is completely healthy and back into game shape. Derozan? I think that's where he would be best served coming off the bench but playing starter minutes. I don't think he would necessarily have an issue with that. Where would those minutes come from? Definitely from shaving some of the realy heavy minutes he's been loading on Randle and Brunson and depending on who you get several other players as well that may be best suited for less minutes.
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#369 » by sol537 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:56 pm

moocow007 wrote:
sol537 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
I think if this team was dysfunctional and lacked leadership (bench and in uniform) then yes absolutely, you need to be a lot more careful of who you add. But this team is bigger than anyone that they are going to bring in so I don't think there will be too much of a issue with many of the guys being mentioned and they need to focus more on talent and what that player does best to what they need most. They need a shot creator most. Not a shooter. They have goes that can shoot a spot up or corner 3. They just don't have anyone that can draw the defenders away from those spot up shooters so that when they do take a shot it's a higher percentage shot. Shooting 3's doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not just about only looking for professional 3 point shooters. it's about open shots and higher percentage shots. Same with defense. The Knicks have plenty of defensive players now. So a elite shot creator that can create his own shot, that can draw defenses and then either score or dish is what they need most. There is a reason that Thibs is riding Brunson and Randle so much. It's not cause he's sadistic. It's because he knows he doesn't have a great offensive system and needs to rely on top tier shot creators to provide that offense. Without anyone off the bench that can do that consistently when push comes to shove, THAT is THE reason why he's playing them so much. Think about it. It's certainly not for their defense right? So the need for that 3rd dominant offensive player (an absolute proven shot creator) is their biggest need for so many different reasons that folks may not be seeing. So who are the top available shot creators and secondary facilitators out there on the market? Those are the guys they need to focus on. They don't need another Bruce Brown.


Agreed... but who? Sounds like you're advocating for Murray...

I'd rather the lower cost, lower risk Caruso or Brogdon... Much easier to slot into what we're already doing...


Cost is relative. If I can get a great player or a great asset for 70 cents on the dollar or a lesser player for 80 cents on the dollar, i may be worth going with the greater player even if it'll cost me $7 to get a $10 player vs. $4 to get a $5 player. Then there's the cost of not given your team the very best chance to win (which is what the better player would do, on paper).

I don't want a role player that can just add depth. I certainly don't want a role player that can't do what this team needs most really really well. So of the guys who's names have been mentioned as possible options that aren't broken (injured, now or perpetually or has a history of it) who are top end shot creators. So Murray, Derozan, Kuzma are the current starter level players that have been mentioned that are who I would consider top end shot creators. They each have their warts which I think folks are stuck on. But for me, the question is, who can I get for the best pennies on the dollar deal.


We're finally in a position of strength and patience when it comes to trades. I think the front office has earned our collective trust to do their thing. I'm sure they'll make a logical and beneficial move depending on fit and on who is available at a fair price. One week to find out!
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#370 » by moocow007 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:00 pm

sol537 wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
sol537 wrote:
Agreed... but who? Sounds like you're advocating for Murray...

I'd rather the lower cost, lower risk Caruso or Brogdon... Much easier to slot into what we're already doing...


Cost is relative. If I can get a great player or a great asset for 70 cents on the dollar or a lesser player for 80 cents on the dollar, i may be worth going with the greater player even if it'll cost me $7 to get a $10 player vs. $4 to get a $5 player. Then there's the cost of not given your team the very best chance to win (which is what the better player would do, on paper).

I don't want a role player that can just add depth. I certainly don't want a role player that can't do what this team needs most really really well. So of the guys who's names have been mentioned as possible options that aren't broken (injured, now or perpetually or has a history of it) who are top end shot creators. So Murray, Derozan, Kuzma are the current starter level players that have been mentioned that are who I would consider top end shot creators. They each have their warts which I think folks are stuck on. But for me, the question is, who can I get for the best pennies on the dollar deal.


We're finally in a position of strength and patience when it comes to trades. I think the front office has earned our collective trust to do their thing. I'm sure they'll make a logical and beneficial move depending on fit and on who is available at a fair price. One week to find out!


Yep.
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#371 » by Capn'O » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:06 pm

We may not need to do anything and then can use our picks to... wait for it... draft reinforcements. We've got a bunch of roster spots to fill next season.
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#372 » by sol537 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:08 pm

Capn'O wrote:We may not need to do anything and then can use our picks to... wait for it... draft reinforcements. We've got a bunch of roster spots to fill next season.


What a novel idea!*

*or draft guys like RJ/IQ to later use as trade bait for younger veteran types... :lol:
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#373 » by moocow007 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:10 pm

Capn'O wrote:We may not need to do anything and then can use our picks to... wait for it... draft reinforcements. We've got a bunch of roster spots to fill next season.


Or they can just sign vet free agents to fill the end of the bench? That's what top tier teams do that don't have their own picks or have picks that are so far down in the draft that they don't amount to anything.
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#374 » by Galvationknicks » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:15 pm

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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#375 » by Fury » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:23 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We may not need to do anything and then can use our picks to... wait for it... draft reinforcements. We've got a bunch of roster spots to fill next season.


Or they can just sign vet free agents to fill the end of the bench? That's what top tier teams do that don't have their own picks or have picks that are so far down in the draft that they don't amount to anything.


It feels weird to be rooting for a team that is looking for guys that fit into our system over just random talent
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#376 » by Jalen Bluntson » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:26 pm

Sounds like people feel we need some special player this TDL. We need to roll Evans expiring at the very least. The better the player the more it costs. I am done with the guessing/wishing phase of all of this. Whoever they get I trust it will be worth whatever they are comfortable paying.

We just beat up on half the league this month. Our bench really stepped up when it looked bleak at first right after the trade. We all know what we could use to tighten up our roster for the playoff run but, we do have to wonder how we are going to hold down the fort waiting for our injured guys to get back. I love what we saw the last two games from our bench. I also know we beat up two trash teams. Whatever they do I just hope it helps us against the better teams in the league.

Being the three seed threatening the 2 seed really is leaving me wanting more. It would be a shame to slide back down the ladder after how far we have come. It's a great time to be a fan but, the injuries are killing me right now!!
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#377 » by sol537 » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:29 pm

Enjoy the ride... there will be some bumps... but it's a glorious ride!
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#378 » by Capn'O » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:35 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We may not need to do anything and then can use our picks to... wait for it... draft reinforcements. We've got a bunch of roster spots to fill next season.


Or they can just sign vet free agents to fill the end of the bench? That's what top tier teams do that don't have their own picks or have picks that are so far down in the draft that they don't amount to anything.


If there's a good move, sure. But, like, I think last night showed that we don't really need the Jordan Clarksons of the world. It has to be the right move. Spurs always kept bringing good players up through the draft and otherwise found good young talent. We've shown acumen later in the draft, honestly dating back to Isiah Thomas. I don't see any reason why we can't views assets as... assets.
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#379 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:35 pm

Jalen Bluntson wrote:Sounds like people feel we need some special player this TDL. We need to roll Evans expiring at the very least. The better the player the more it costs. I am done with the guessing/wishing phase of all of this. Whoever they get I trust it will be worth whatever they are comfortable paying.

We just beat up on half the league this month. Our bench really stepped up when it looked bleak at first right after the trade. We all know what we could use to tighten up our roster for the playoff run but, we do have to wonder how we are going to hold down the fort waiting for our injured guys to get back. I love what we saw the last two games from our bench. I also know we beat up two trash teams. Whatever they do I just hope it helps us against the better teams in the league.

Being the three seed threatening the 2 seed really is leaving me wanting more. It would be a shame to slide back down the ladder after how far we have come. It's a great time to be a fan but, the injuries are killing me right now!!


We could always pick up Fourniers option too. Getting paid $19mil isn't bad for him
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Re: PG: Omigod, The Sky is Falling! NOT!!! The Buzz Train Keeps-a-Rolling, Jazz Gutted 

Post#380 » by CDAZ » Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:08 pm

Or draft euro's with more experience than a traditional american rookie

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