PG: that sucked

[Reign23]

just finished. I don't know why we don't just bench Towns if we don't run plays for him or even give him the ball at all.
Mitch or Achiuwa are at least better on defense and they can watch Brunson dribble the ball for 20 seconds on each possession too.
also great to see that we keep feeding OG in his hot offensive stretch.
Thibs is just a chess master.

I can’t believe you watched it non-live. Do you also let rats nibble on your gonads for fun?

it starts at 1:30 am in Germany. thats a liiiiiiitttle too late (or early?) for me.
but with league pass and no spoilers - no problem.

[mpharris36]

Fun fact

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FGA

We've had 31 "wide open" (nearest defender is more than 6 feet away) field goal attempts in the last 2 games. That average of 15.5 is worst among teams in the playoffs. To be fair, only 4 teams have played 2 games, and the Pistons and Clippers are at 16.5 each but still

We're just not generating a ton of wide open looks. I mean hell, the Thunder had 34 wide open looks in their 1 game, and Minny had 30 in their 1 game. I get we didn't convert on our wide open looks (Mikal went 0-4 from 3 on wide open shots last night, yeesh), but we need to do a better job of generating them. And that's a coaching issue.

and since we aren't the offensive rebound team we were last year (a lot because we don't have ihart) its even more important to generate good looks because we don't have the bail out offense of offensive rebounds on our side. Det is also a good rebounding team.

[TKKnicks1]

Why isn't KAT being setup for more threes if he is constantly getting doubled down low? He's an inside and outside player but arguably is much better from outside. Career average got him around 4 threes a game. He should probably be taking at least 5-6 considering he's shooting a career best from out there this season. This is just all lack of offensive execution and not knowing the strengths of your players.

[mpharris36]

All of the (valid) coaching criticisms aside from this game...

-Mikal Bridges had 3 wide open looks from 3 in the last 5 minutes. Missed them all.
-Knicks went 0-8 from 3 in the first quarter. Most of them being open.
-Brunson had an open look with 8 seconds left to get the lead down to 1. Missed it.
-OG didn't make a 3 all night.

Sometimes a game can simply come down to do the guys you need to make shots make them or not... The Knicks guys came out on the wrong side of that equation last night.

Game is different, even with all the noise, if the guys they needed to make shots actually made them.

I do agree we missed some makeable shots...especially end of game. But these games shouldn't even be this close.

The talent gap is too large...we shouldn't be struggling to get good looks. Everything is a slog. And yes the refs are allowing a lot of physicality especially on the pistons side. But our pace is terrible.

whistle will even out in detroit, we get a brutal whistle at home. Need to play mitch more then 20 min a game and together with KAT(and without Hart) so we can have some dominance on the boards and be better in the middle. It is a pretty easy fix, I expect them to play better on the road.

I do really think Mitch should start this series...we need his rebounding and size.

I would help keep Cade more out of the paint on offense. Just do the same thing they do with Hart...just put Mitch on Ausar and have him chill in the paint and help any guy driving.

Then on offense if Duren is helping off Mitch with Harris on KAT...even if we miss Mitch should have position to be offensive rebound.

If we aren't using Hart as a secondary creator he isn't really much valuable on offense...so Brunson just holding the ball Hart basically has no value...he needs to be used as a screener short roll guy to take advantage of what the pistons are doing...if not you might as well just go big with Mitch and KAT>

[prophet_of_rage]

how do you guys expect to reign in jalen brunon's usage when his godfather is the gm, his close family friend is the coach, his actual father is on the coaching staff and you traded for all of his college teammates ? you also got him to agree to take less money for "the family". now you think you can take the ball out of his hands ? he's running the team lol

Shhhh ... Jalen is a hero.

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[Muskies97]

Thibs deserves most of the blame for how iso heavy we play with Brunson but Brunson is a smart player, you would think at some point he’ll realize how bad our shots are that he’ll make some sort of adjustment

It took a coaching change for Donovan Mitchell to realize that, it's why his regular season was so scaled back compared to normal. They took him off the ball and spread the wealth. These guys are pros and even then most of them are not going to come up off the ball unless someone is telling them to do it.

the knicks don't have any secondary ball handling play creation. cavs still have garland + jerome.

hart + og + mikal are not playmakers. neither is kat. the roster's offensive skillset is quite limited outside of iso-ball. the difference between this year and the last 2 years is that the bench was markedly better hence they were able to win minutes when the starters were out. not this year. it caught up to them.

i actually think thibs has this team playing as well as it can due to it's makeup.

Idk why the fans can’t see this lol. Most of the top teams have multiple guys that can hunt 3pt shots, and multiple guys that attack off the bounce. We have a starting lineup that plays 4 on 5 and zero bench scoring. It makes NYK super easy to guard.

[prophet_of_rage]

how do you guys expect to reign in jalen brunon's usage when his godfather is the gm, his close family friend is the coach, his actual father is on the coaching staff and you traded for all of his college teammates ? you also got him to agree to take less money for "the family". now you think you can take the ball out of his hands ? he's running the team lol

And why would we want the ball out of Brunson’s hands? You guys want Mikal and Josh hart ISOs? Or watch KAT turn the ball over when he’s double teamed?

No, wr need ball movement. It can start in his hands and finish in his hands but he's got to move it around faster. He holds it 7 seconds every possession. That is nearly a 3rd of the shot clock. And he hilds the ball.10 minutes a game when the next Knick spend 3 minutes with it.

That is too much time with the ball.

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[prophet_of_rage]

kg and prophet ate a lot of **** for calling out what ended up losing us this game lol

It's okay. Sooner or later we'll all see who the Prophet is. I've been eating this board's ish since I called out Phillip Jackson's straight hoodwinkin' in 2015. I'm fine being the Enemy if the State.

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[Jeff Van Gully]

yup, we had a bad turnover game but that hasn't been our issue this year.

and i credit Detroit's recognition of our passing games/lanes for taking us out of rhythm. that with the physicality was the difference. i'm just surprised we wilted on our floor like that. that's the series from here on out.

people talk about the talent differential and the coaching strategies. none of that is going to matter if the pistons just shove your face into your own piss and you don't so much as bite them.

our response was way too late last night and was almost too late game 1. imposition of will has to be much earlier or the final horn will come for this team sooner than desired.

Brunson for sure is getting caught up too much into the theatrics of the physicality. LIke him throwing up 6 fingers to Thompson when we were down...they are taking him out of the game mentally with all the physicality.

KAT's an interesting case because he had no offensive rebounds when he should be getting some but its a double edge sword because we also need him out there spacing the floor when Brunson gets into the paint. So we really are a one and done offense so that is why its so important to get better looks because we don't have the safety net of grabbing and offensive board like we use to.

they said "paint is closed, new york." they turned it into a no fly zone. their intensity and being the aggressor was rewarded by the officiating. i can live with that.

the way the pistons pack that paint makes it a tough call, but you have to wonder if you should give them some 5 out with extra cheese (space) in those moments. but those lineups are only going to get brutalized on the glass and in the paint. don't have to agree on liking thibs, but if he's right about anything it's that you can't concede the paint to this group. that's where cade wants to be. giving him that is worse than living with the wide open, higher percentage, but lower volume of 3PTM.

i hate that because missed threes are how both teams are looking to score quickly and avoid set defenses. i'm really not sure what the right answer is.

i need a line of that michael irvin. i'm not tryn see anybody come in my house and take my meal. fate worse than losing. last year we fought to the death and "had nothing left to give." death be not proud ****. this death would be a laugher. and i say that with all the respect for detroit's gully.

i guess the thesis is detroit's gully shouldn't be enough. they should have to contend with both our talent and our heart.

[prophet_of_rage]

Also this is nitpicky but it matters....why do we have Brunson slowly walk the ball up the floor as he being picked up full court? Isn't that just extra energy we are wasting...if Hart is in the game and the center is on him...why can he just push the ball into the front court and initiate the offense...even if its just to hand it back to Brunson we will do that much quicker than a using like 6-7 seconds to walk it up before we even get into our offense.

just no creativity...

I've been saying that. Jalen wants the ball and he wants his pace. Jalen doesn't fit with an uptempo squad.

Problem with Hart is he can only handle in a fastbreak. Anybody who stunts at him stops his dribble. He really is a runt 4.

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[MrDollarBills]

Saw someone say that Thibs didn't actually make any adjustments in game 1, he simply got lucky because Hart was in foul trouble and it forced his hand.

Clearly.

I gave Tom too much credit

[prophet_of_rage]

Also this is nitpicky but it matters....why do we have Brunson slowly walk the ball up the floor as he being picked up full court? Isn't that just extra energy we are wasting...if Hart is in the game and the center is on him...why can he just push the ball into the front court and initiate the offense...even if its just to hand it back to Brunson we will do that much quicker than a using like 6-7 seconds to walk it up before we even get into our offense.

just no creativity...

like many have pointed out, brunson's dad is the associate head coach

Rick Brunson is calling the shots?

lets be honest...look at Rick on the bench...he is a glorified cheerleader...he isn't coaching this team.

Jalen is running this team. It ia designed for Jalen.

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[prophet_of_rage]

"that's what happens when they let you run the show"
- donte divincenzo, knower of vibes

What a glorious day!

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[Dave_R]

Knicks fan since '67. As long as KAT fails to go off with Harris guarding him (allowing Duren to roam/help), the Knicks will lose. Nobody should let a player 20 pounds lighter and 4 inches shorter to guard them - it's disgraceful. EVERY play should go through KAT in the LOW post (not the elbow).

[DOT]

Fun fact

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FGA

We've had 31 "wide open" (nearest defender is more than 6 feet away) field goal attempts in the last 2 games. That average of 15.5 is worst among teams in the playoffs. To be fair, only 4 teams have played 2 games, and the Pistons and Clippers are at 16.5 each but still

We're just not generating a ton of wide open looks. I mean hell, the Thunder had 34 wide open looks in their 1 game, and Minny had 30 in their 1 game. I get we didn't convert on our wide open looks (Mikal went 0-4 from 3 on wide open shots last night, yeesh), but we need to do a better job of generating them. And that's a coaching issue.

what would you suggest for that creation?

I mean, we need to run actual plays instead of "Jalen, go do something"

In the last 5 minutes or so, let Jalen go to work. But for the rest of the game, we need to create movement. You get wide open looks by confusing the defense off the ball, which comes down to coaching. Guys need to know what everyone else is doing, if they're all just winging it, they won't be able to work together

Admittedly, a guy like DDV would do wonders in that department. Guys who just run around off ball and find openings. Last year he led us in wide open FGs in the playoffs at 3.7 per game, with a 69.8% eFG

We need a coach who is gonna put guys in the best position to succeed. Play to their strengths rather than force them into predetermined roles. We have 3 guys who are really talented in at least one area, yet we're only catering to one of them. KAT can score from anywhere, Mikal is an elite mid range scorer, and Brunson is one of the best iso players in the league. It's on the coach to get them to gel

We all saw that what, 21-0 run in game 1? We have the talent, what we lack is cohesion. Brunson can get his whenever he wants, but Mikal and KAT need to be put in position to succeed cause their skillsets require setting up before getting the ball, Brunson doesn't

Guys need to be prepared, to know what the counter to the opponent's counters are. Say they're playing straight-up, you force them through a bunch of screens and pass the ball around until someone makes a mistake. If they start switching, force a mismatch in your favor and then punish it. If they're gonna put a C on Hart, either sub him out for someone who can shoot, tell him to let it fly, or read the defense and see if they overreact to drives which leads to a wide open dunk like on one possession late last night

If you have a multiple-choice test and just answer "C" on everything, you're gonna get some questions right. But you're gonna do worse than if you prepared and know what's coming at you. Even if something you didn't study for shows up, you're still prepared for most of the other questions.

[prophet_of_rage]

my point is that if we are making a player "captain" and naming his daddy the "associate head coach" we aren't taking the ball out of his hands for any basketball reasons

its not taking it out of his hands its making the offense more efficient. Duren isn't going to pick up hart full court...so just let him bring it up and we get into our offense way fast...too many time we start our possession with 14-15 on the shot clock and we are barely passing half court. So then when our first action is denied we are already up against the shot clock instead of being able to reset with enough time to counter.

If its a pride thing then thats bull ****....

i agree with you about this, what i'm saying is that i think that sadly it is a pride/totem pole thing

That's the game people. That is why the bench sits. They make less money than Tom. Nobody that makes more sits.

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[dakomish23]

A lot of our wins in the playoffs last year was based on teams choking in the 4th and us turning it up. It wasn't b/c we were some unstoppable machine.

We absolutely have the ability to be such a machine and that's what I'd like to see today.

Well, we got the opposite of this.

Watch on YouTube

detroit didn't fold. both teams played ugly. both teams struggled to score, to be real.

as thibs says, sometimes you have to win in different ways. we needed to overpower a starving, angry group tonight. we looked like rocky balboa in the first clubber lang fight.

I just know there's so much potential with this team that is not even close to being unlocked.

[Jeff Van Gully]

how do you guys expect to reign in jalen brunon's usage when his godfather is the gm, his close family friend is the coach, his actual father is on the coaching staff and you traded for all of his college teammates ? you also got him to agree to take less money for "the family". now you think you can take the ball out of his hands ? he's running the team lol

And why would we want the ball out of Brunson’s hands? You guys want Mikal and Josh hart ISOs? Or watch KAT turn the ball over when he’s double teamed?

No, wr need ball movement. It can start in his hands and finish in his hands but he's got to move it around faster. He holds it 7 seconds every possession. That is nearly a 3rd of the shot clock. And he hilds the ball.10 minutes a game when the next Knick spend 3 minutes with it.

That is too much time with the ball.

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i don't want to contribute to your JB mission. but that's kind of what i'm talking about with the extra spaced 5 out. not so much that we will only take threes, but moving the ball around the horn a couple times should... tenderize their shell.

but they are doing a really impressive job on POA too. the hedging is very good. they're picking up from damn near half court. so, easier said than done.

the brunson/payne lineup gave them problems because they had to account for that creation twice and i think it spreads the scheme too thinly. i really liked the 2PG and big frontcourt juxtaposition we saw in game 1. because we need the size too.

kinda hype to see what adjustments happen thursday.

[prophet_of_rage]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brunson needs to move the ball.

Leon Rose didn't trade the entire asset chest for KAT, OG, and Mikal to stand around and watch Jalen and Tom try to imitate the 2010s Bulls offense.

This is horse sh*t. This team/roster is absolutely mismanaged.

Yes he did. This team was created for Jalen. KAT was to get the centre out of the paint.

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[K_ick_God]

how do you guys expect to reign in jalen brunon's usage when his godfather is the gm, his close family friend is the coach, his actual father is on the coaching staff and you traded for all of his college teammates ? you also got him to agree to take less money for "the family". now you think you can take the ball out of his hands ? he's running the team lol

Shhhh ... Jalen is a hero.

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But what you’re saying sham is that JB rather shoot than win, or doesn’t know that he’s hurting the team by not trying to see what fires he can start with KAT or some other little repeatable thing. Either way it’s a big indictment.