Derrick Rose to NY

[Zooropa]

Rose is a risk. A risk worth it. We don't know how many teams inquired & what their offers were. I doubt we were the only ones. We probably were just giving them the best offer out of everybody else.
I mean look around the league, almost every team has a PG position taken care of. Why would they risk benching their current PG for a risk on a 1 year rental?
Again, you're thinking too hard about it.

Last year, you killed Phil for signing D-Will. I said give it a chance & you didn't want to. Ultimately he finished somewhere between the middle of garbage like you thought & pretty useful off the bench like I hoped. You can't just crap on something out the gate with no hard evidence. If you want to talk about "what have you done for me lately" about Rose, then he has been healthy & shot over 50% since March. Take that FWIW.

You're thinking of someone else. I liked the D-Will signing. He is young and cheap. That's how I like em.

Lol you might be right. My bad

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

[NYKNICKPLAYA]

Rose and Chicago were ready for a break up. It just was time to move on. This off-season is the first in a while that Rose can put his injury come back's in the rear-view, and just focus on training, getting in rhythm.

Regardless of stats, fit, PER, and Chicago's record last year...Rose showed flashes at times, erratic at times, inefficient at times, among other issues and positives.

But from what I saw last year, he had plenty of explosion. He's got enough talent and the right mental attitude/motivation to be an all-star again.

[Zooropa]

Rose and Chicago were ready for a break up. It just was time to move on. This off-season is the first in a while that Rose can put his injury come back's in the rear-view, and just focus on training, getting in rhythm.

Regardless of stats, fit, PER, and Chicago's record last year...Rose showed flashes at times, erratic at times, inefficient at times, among other issues and positives.

But from what I saw last year, he had plenty of explosion. He's got enough talent and the right mental attitude/motivation to be an all-star again.

In the 3 years before his injury, he had .34 dunks per game. In the 3 years since (obviously not counting the year he missed), he has .06 per game. He's talented to be sure, and it seems like everyone has good things to say about his mentality, but we can't just pretend he's explosive when he's markedly not.

[ibraheim718]

Look at the game with your eyes, not with RPM & all those other stats.
& no, we didn't but I did say we were getting either Conley or KD. Conley is obviously out the equation & I'm happy about that.
KD is still possible.
You don't think so. So be it.

I get that people want to look at the stats. But you can't be blinded by them. Put the calculator to the side and go watch the recent tape on him, he still has explosiveness.

Im not going to sit here and tell you he is the same MVP type player, but he is a player that needed to get through an entire NBA season healthy and this is his first real offseason since his run of injuries.

Give me Rose, keep conley away on his long term bloated contract and put the calculator down. Im not losing sleep over jerian grant and robin lopez. You have to take chances; this is a risk but one I understand and excited about.

You also can't completely ignore them either. I mean there has to a reason that 28 other teams didn't want him.

Yea he's an upgrade over Calderon, but let's not put the champagne on ice just yet. And yes, I'd prefer to take the chance on Rose than give Conley an awful contract.

Pure conjecture based on leaked rumors to the media. You can't prove this.

[ibraheim718]

You're thinking of someone else. I liked the D-Will signing. He is young and cheap. That's how I like em.

Lol you might be right. My bad

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

Yeah it actually is saying much. What would you had preferred another year of Calderon? Who did you want the team to get?

[NY2TheBay]

Rose and Chicago were ready for a break up. It just was time to move on. This off-season is the first in a while that Rose can put his injury come back's in the rear-view, and just focus on training, getting in rhythm.

Regardless of stats, fit, PER, and Chicago's record last year...Rose showed flashes at times, erratic at times, inefficient at times, among other issues and positives.

But from what I saw last year, he had plenty of explosion. He's got enough talent and the right mental attitude/motivation to be an all-star again.

In the 3 years before his injury, he had .34 dunks per game. In the 3 years since (obviously not counting the year he missed), he has .06 per game. He's talented to be sure, and it seems like everyone has good things to say about his mentality, but we can't just pretend he's explosive when he's markedly not.

Allow me to point out that explosion isnt measured only by lift but also by lateral and first step movements. I saw enough on tape to know he has more than most still.

[Zooropa]

Rose and Chicago were ready for a break up. It just was time to move on. This off-season is the first in a while that Rose can put his injury come back's in the rear-view, and just focus on training, getting in rhythm.

Regardless of stats, fit, PER, and Chicago's record last year...Rose showed flashes at times, erratic at times, inefficient at times, among other issues and positives.

But from what I saw last year, he had plenty of explosion. He's got enough talent and the right mental attitude/motivation to be an all-star again.

In the 3 years before his injury, he had .34 dunks per game. In the 3 years since (obviously not counting the year he missed), he has .06 per game. He's talented to be sure, and it seems like everyone has good things to say about his mentality, but we can't just pretend he's explosive when he's markedly not.

Allow me to point out that explosion isnt measured only by lift but also by lateral and first step movements. I saw enough on tape to know he has more than most still.

That's true. He still has a quick first step.

[NYKNICKPLAYA]

When I said explosion, I didn't mean MVP explosion, but pretty damn explosive at times....he does not need to dunk on everyone but my point is, he's still a quick, powerful driver... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aespZdGCsLg

[Zooropa]

Lol you might be right. My bad

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

Yeah it actually is saying much. What would you had preferred another year of Calderon? Who did you want the team to get?

I'm not looking for the team to contend this year, so I would've preferred another year of Calderon if it meant using those assets to acquire future picks instead of an unreliable former all-star on a one-year rental.

[DowNY]

You're thinking of someone else. I liked the D-Will signing. He is young and cheap. That's how I like em.

Lol you might be right. My bad

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

So when he shredded us for over 28 each time this past year, that was the level of a player one notch above a replacement?
& when he went head to head vs. Russell & won? That's replacement stuff huh?
I don't care how many games you've watched of the bulls, you must be horrible at analyzing if that's the summary you got of him.

[ibraheim718]

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

Yeah it actually is saying much. What would you had preferred another year of Calderon? Who did you want the team to get?

I'm not looking for the team to contend this year, so I would've preferred another year of Calderon if it meant using those assets to acquire future picks instead of an unreliable former all-star on a one-year rental.

You just don't get it. There might be guys with jobs and legacies on the line that NEED the team to contend in some capacity. One of those guys happens to be the guy running the team.

[Zooropa]

Yeah it actually is saying much. What would you had preferred another year of Calderon? Who did you want the team to get?

I'm not looking for the team to contend this year, so I would've preferred another year of Calderon if it meant using those assets to acquire future picks instead of an unreliable former all-star on a one-year rental.

You just don't get it. There might be guys with jobs and legacies on the line that NEED the team to contend in some capacity. One of those guys happens to be the guy running the team.

I very much do get it, and Phil's ego is getting in the way of him running the team most efficiently, IMO. I'm not sure what it is I'm saying that's annoying you so much.

[Besart19]

Noah // Pau Gasol // Willy
Porzingis // Johnson // Lou
Carmelo // Lance // Early
C. Lee // Holiday // Baker
Rose // DJ Augustin // Gallo

Is that a contender right away?!

[NY2TheBay]

When I said explosion, I didn't mean MVP explosion, but pretty damn explosive at times....he does not need to dunk on everyone but my point is, he's still a quick, powerful driver... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aespZdGCsLg

FWIW, the dunks per game stat I dont think is really indicative of where he really is at vertically. I heard Kendall Gill point out that derrick was coasting for awhile last season to make it through the season healthy. He wanted to come into this season after a full offseason of basketball specific training and not rehab to set personal goals (all star etc.). I dont turn my back to the stats but Rose's situation is unique.

[Zooropa]

When I said explosion, I didn't mean MVP explosion, but pretty damn explosive at times....he does not need to dunk on everyone but my point is, he's still a quick, powerful driver... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aespZdGCsLg

FWIW, the dunks per game stat I dont think is really indicative of where he really is at vertically. I heard Kendall Gill point out that derrick was coasting for awhile last season to make it through the season healthy. He wanted to come into this season after a full offseason of basketball specific training and not rehab to set personal goals (all star etc.). I dont turn my back to the stats but Rose's situation is unique.

If that's true then it's interesting and certainly a wrench in my logic. But stats aside, I watched a lot of Bulls last year and didn't see what I would call explosiveness from D-Rose.

[NYKNICKPLAYA]

When I said explosion, I didn't mean MVP explosion, but pretty damn explosive at times....he does not need to dunk on everyone but my point is, he's still a quick, powerful driver... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aespZdGCsLg

FWIW, the dunks per game stat I dont think is really indicative of where he really is at vertically. I heard Kendall Gill point out that derrick was coasting for awhile last season to make it through the season healthy. He wanted to come into this season after a full offseason of basketball specific training and not rehab to set personal goals (all star etc.). I dont turn my back to the stats but Rose's situation is unique.

If that's true then it's interesting and certainly a wrench in my logic. But stats aside, I watched a lot of Bulls last year and didn't see what I would call explosiveness from D-Rose.

Just click on that youtube link and watch some of the drives. He clearly still has the power drives. I'm sure he will dunk on some people next year. I heard the same interview that Kendall said those comments. Rose is going to turn it up this year. His press conference clearly shows he's going to work hard to get to that level, and being in a contract year, going to put it all on the line...so we will see real soon.

[Zooropa]

Lol you might be right. My bad

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

So when he shredded us for over 28 each time against us this past year, that was the level of a player one notch above a replacement?
& when he went head to head vs. Russell & won? That's replacement stuff huh?
I don't care how many games you've watched of the bulls, you must be horrible at analyzing if that's the summary you got of him.

Shredding the Knicks for 28 isn't saying much. Not sure which game vs Thunder you're talking about (genuinely don't remember it; not trying to be glib). What I saw of Rose last year gave me the impression that he's a decent, but far from great player at this point in his career. I have nothing to gain by being right or "winning" this debate. Rose is a Knick, and I'm rooting for him with everything I have.

[DowNY]

Can't believe people are complaining about trading Robin Lopez for Derrick Rose. Lol
Like , really?
When did RoLo become Marc Gasol & Derrick Rose become Mardy Collins?
What was RoLo suppose to net us? A late 1st in this past draft to use on a potential bum? Another Grant or Timmy maybe?
Was RoLo suppose to get Russell Westbrook?

[Besart19]

“We have priorities, backups, secondaries, fall backs,” Jackson said on Thursday.

[DowNY]

If I may jump in here, the other difference between Rose and D-Will last year was that none of us really knew what D-Will was for a plethora of reasons... Misuse, weird peaks and valleys of playing time, the unstable FO situation in SAC, etc. I watched a ton of Bulls games last year, and what I know is that, even when healthy, Rose is now basically one notch above a replacement-level point guard in this league. The position is too deep right now league-wide. He just isn't worth his salary, and he's certainly not worth our only two assets. Yes, he is a huge improvement over Jose. That isn't saying much, though.

So when he shredded us for over 28 each time against us this past year, that was the level of a player one notch above a replacement?
& when he went head to head vs. Russell & won? That's replacement stuff huh?
I don't care how many games you've watched of the bulls, you must be horrible at analyzing if that's the summary you got of him.

Shredding the Knicks for 28 isn't saying much. Not sure which game vs Thunder you're talking about (genuinely don't remember it; not trying to be glib). What I saw of Rose last year gave me the impression that he's a decent, but far from great player at this point in his career. I have nothing to gain by being right or "winning" this debate. Rose is a Knick, and I'm rooting for him with everything I have.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYxNYdtH7nc[/youtube]