[Camelo Thread] - Update: He's Pushing for NYK! Part 5

[DishAndSwish]

Oh I agree and I meant to mention that as well. Along with his attitude issues, Iverson's biggest failing point is his terrible shot selection and TS%. The thing with Iverson is that his greatest strength was his blazing speed and ability to get to the line, but was at best an average jump shooter, which he relied upon way too much. While I agree he's overrated in many respects, I do feel that all the negative press surrounding Iverson today has made people forget how good he was back in the day, despite the negative aspects of his game.

[Pharmcat]

^his team beat the bucks who had ray allen, cassell, big dog robinson and tim thomas off the bench

that was a stacked team!

I'm not quite sure what your argument is right now...

If you're trying to say that proves Iverson was good at keeping his teammates involved in the offense you couldn't be more wrong.

while the East conf. mightve been weak, they had to beat a strong team to get to the finals

[Justdatdude]

I applaud Fieldsmedal. You must have a lot of patience to keep debating the same thing over, and over, and over, just for it not to sink in. I remember I was doing the same thing you was earlier in the season. After Carmelo's wedding, this board begged for Melo. Then came that first preseason game and this board wanted nothing to do with Melo. Then came out 3-8 stance, and they wanted to ship Gallo, Randolph, and a number 1 out for Melo. Now we're winning and its back to Melo being useless. I don't have the patience to go back and fourth over and over and over anymore.

[FieldsMedal]

I am - but building years when we win. Bottom line, chemistry is everything and we have to get the chemistry right.

Fair enough. Though I've heard enough positive things about 'Melo's Team USA experiences that suggest to me he isn't the chemistry killer some are under the impression he is.

LeBron James, THAT was a guy that people around the national team couldn't stand.

This isn't some damn computer game - and guys getting paid max money rarely change their stripes.

I don't know if you're talking to me, but I haven't played an basketball videogame in my life.

The RealGM Knicks forum need some new ad hominem attacks. Some of them are getting worn out from excessive use.

[Fury]

I applaud Fieldsmedal. You must have a lot of patience to keep debating the same thing over, and over, and over, just for it not to sink in. I remember I was doing the same thing you was earlier in the season. After Carmelo's wedding, this board begged for Melo. Then came that first preseason game and this board wanted nothing to do with Melo. Then came out 3-8 stance, and they wanted to ship Gallo, Randolph, and a number 1 out for Melo. Now we're winning and its back to Melo being useless. I don't have the patience to go back and fourth over and over and over anymore.

Aww. Lets give him an applause everyone.

[kane2021]

I am - but building years when we win. Bottom line, chemistry is everything and we have to get the chemistry right.

Fair enough. Though I've heard enough positive things about 'Melo's Team USA experiences that suggest to me he isn't the chemistry killer some are under the impression he is.

LeBron James, THAT was a guy that people around the national team couldn't stand.

This isn't some damn computer game - and guys getting paid max money rarely change their stripes.

I don't know if you're talking to me, but I haven't played an basketball videogame in my life.

The RealGM Knicks forum need some new ad hominem attacks. Some of them are getting worn out from excessive use.

This is your 3rd attack. If you dislike the board so much, why continue? Unless your back to even a score I dont see the point.

[BowlRips]

Everyone's saying "Sign Melo in the offseason, we dont want to give up any of our core by signing him" Well that is not true at all. Signing Melo would require us to renounce Chandler and Azuibuike and get rid of Turiaf's 4.5 million dollar option or if he were to decline it, his 8 million dollar cap hold.

In that case, we would barely have enough money to sign Carmelo (depends on the actual CBA) and thats it. No other Free Agent signings.

So if we were to sign Melo in Free Agency, we are trading him for Chandler, Kelenna, and Turiaf and whatever potential free agents we would be interested in. But you would keep Randolph, Fields, Gallo, Douglas, Moz etc.

However, if the Knicks waited til the deadline they could pull off a few different things.

Firstly, they could trade Chandler, Azuibuike, Curry and a first for Melo straight up and you get the same scenario regardless of waiting until Free Agency.

In that scenario, with some finagling, they could somehow manage to put themselves OVER the salary cap which would make them eligible for the Mid Level Exception and the Lower Level Exception. With the MLE i see the Knicks potentially offering the full MLE to several Free Agent Centers such as Sam Dalembert, Perkins, Tyson Chandler, Pryzbilla, Greg Oden, Carl Landry, and Troy Murphy.

That scenario would be amazing. You get the starting Defensive Center we need you get Melo and the only thing your potentially losing is a 2014 first rounder, (which hopefully around that time is worth the 28th overall pick)

If you are one of those people that want to keep Chandler, then there is no way you should be looking to hold off til Free Agency. It is impossible for the Knicks to sign Melo and be able to fit Chandler under the salary cap with his 6.5 million dollar cap hold.

In that scenario, lets say you trade Gallo, Curry and Azuibuike and a first rounder for Melo. Chandler's caphold will exceed the Salary Cap thus enabling the Knicks to sign players for the MLE/LLE and then extend Chandler to whatever hes looking for (lets say 5 years 40 million)

In my opinion the best case scenario is taking on a toxic contract from Denver and let me explain. If the Knicks and Denver came to an agreement before the trade deadline of:

Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry, Toney Douglas, Ronny Turiaf, Azuibuike, and a first rounder for Carmelo, Al Buckets Harrington and Chris Andersen.

Just so you know, Al has 5 year full MLE contract and Chris has a 4 year 16 million dollar contract.

With that trade, Denver completely wipes out their salary and has about 5 million on the books, 11 million for Nene's player option which id think he 50/50 on accepting (well maybe not if their whole team is Ty Lawson and Gary Forbes) and a 13 million dollar team option on Billups which theyll decline.

Your probably thinking, Wow you want to add on all this salary again! Didnt you learn.

This is so different. You'd have 2 proven NBA superstars, not Marbury and Eddy Curry.

Our lineup would look something like this for this season and then you'd have the full MLE and LLE to work with.

Big Lineup:
Birdman/Mozgov/Harrington (you know Dantoni would play Harrington at Center)
Amare/Chandler/Harrington
Carmelo/Chandler/Harrington
Gallo/Fields
Felton/Rautins

Small Lineup:
Amare/Birdman
Gallo/Harrington
Melo/Chandler
Fields/Chandler
Felton/Rautins

clearly youll need a backup PG but im sure knicks could attempt to flip Harrington or Andersen for a backup PG (Id think a Andersen or Harrington for Kyle Lowry (got full MLE this offseason) could work or Maybe to Orlando for Chris Duhon

Yes, we wouldnt have cap space, but it doesnt mean we wouldnt have flexibilty, our players would be under big contracts but they would be good contracts. And you'd have a championship caliber squad for the next few years!

Imagine Heading into 2011 with this potential Lineup:

Dalembert(Signed Full MLE)/Andersen/Mozgov
Amare/Harrington/2nd rounder
Carmelo/Chandler/Bill Walker
Gallo/Fields/Rautins
Felton/Earl Watson or Carlos Arroyo(Signed with LLE)/First Rounder


Come on people, I think this is a real best case scenario! Its the best of both worlds!

And while yes this is a trade proposal thread sort of, It's not, its just enlightening the fans that are screaming "HOLD OUT SIGN MELO HOLD OUT SIGN MELO"

And ye for those screaming for Chris Paul, Id rather have a team that deep then have a team of just Paul, Amare, and Carmelo.

[towelie]

In that scenario, with some finagling, they could somehow manage to put themselves OVER the salary cap which would make them eligible for the Mid Level Exception and the Lower Level Exception.

You have your info wrong, although your basic idea is correct.

MLE isn't something that's awarded to teams over the cap.

It's given to every team regardless of cap...however, the rights to the MLE take up cap space (equivalent to the MLE), so if someone wants to use that cap space, they have to renounce their rights to the MLE.

So yes, trading for Carmelo now allows us to use the MLE this summer. But it's not cause we'd be over the cap, but rather, that we wouldn't have to renounce it to clear cap to sign Melo.

[knickabocker88]

This I actually Like, Dolan wouldn't hesitate at playnig luxary Tax, if it meant playoff games at the Garden

[St Knick]

you lost me at Al Harrington... haha

in all seriousness, that a good point you make... but i would certainly see if we can flip Harrington into a different player... im sure some team could user harrington, but (A) we will already have 3 SF types in melo, gallo and chandler and (B) he wore out his welcome here

[FieldsMedal]

This is your 3rd attack. If you dislike the board so much, why continue? Unless your back to even a score I dont see the point.

Huh?

[aggo]

I'm ok with getting someone like birdman back

i'm not ok with taking back harrington

him and this coach would no longer work

[BelieveTheDream]

would love to get back birdman but No thank you to harrington at all.....I just want to keep ATLEAST gallo/fields...if we have to deal chandler im going to miss him I wish we could keep him but in no way am I trading 2 of those 3 players

[RHODEY]

So who do we sign with the MLE. I assume we'd be competing with Miami for some of the same types of players...

[delvec19]

I think the real test is whether or not we can hang with the East's elite (Celts, Heat, Magic, Bulls) and that will prove whether or not we push for a trade for Melo.

[BowlRips]

I'm ok with getting someone like birdman back

i'm not ok with taking back harrington

him and this coach would no longer work

Okay Harrington is just an example. Trust me he wouldnt play much, but this scenario makes much more sense for the Knicks. Im sure the second the trade is done, Donnie's on the phone offering Harrington for anyone who has the capability of bringing up the ball.

Denver does it because they wipe out their salaries.

[moocow007]

Under the model where the Knicks would shipt Gallinari, Randolph, Walker, Azubuike and Curry to Denver for Melo....it is possible Knicks do trade for Melo it's possible that they can also acquire someone like Birdman in the exchange. Turiaf AND Birdman (along with Mozgov perhaps) together may be doable enough as a tag team tandem at C that the Knicks wouldn't necessarily need to worry about finding one.

Would put them in the luxury tax (which is actually a plus) since it means they'd be able to use the MLE to acquire (presumably) a guard of some sort. And since they would have already have Melo's contract they could also resign (or sign-and-trade) Chandler.

Melo-Stoudemire-Felton-Chandler-Fields-Turiaf-Birdman-Douglas-[MLE guard] gives you 9 guys (the max D'Antoni would play).

[BowlRips]

would love to get back birdman but No thank you to harrington at all.....I just want to keep ATLEAST gallo/fields...if we have to deal chandler im going to miss him I wish we could keep him but in no way am I trading 2 of those 3 players

Its not for getting Harrington, trust em I hate the guy as much as you do. But in order to retain Gallo, Fields and Chandler. I'd let Harrington ride the bench a bit, play garbage time and root for the team for 6 months while we look to flip him.

[earthmansurfer]

The one thing to consider, what if Chandler doesn't want to sign with Denver? He already said he doesn't want to got there.

Now, Denver could offer him the qualifying offer which I think would make him a restricted free agent and then they could overpay (possibly) by matching any offers.

[quackshot27]

Yeah please no harrington. I would rather keep Gallo, he will spread the floor more with his 3 point shot.