[Camelo Thread Part 19] - Nyets won't be used pg 52

[K_ick_God]

Hahn on ESPN 1050 at 10:20AM:
Bolding Key Parts:

- Doesn't think Donnie would ever cave, not his style, when he spoke to Donnie last night he was cool calm and collected. Donnie was enjoying taking the questions.

- From what he understands, Knicks only horse in the race. Nuggets trying to bring other teams and theres no other competition.

[b]- James Dolan not pressuring Walsh. I WRITE FOR NEWSDAY, IM NOT JUST SAYING THAT!!!!

- Says Knicks dont need cap space to get Paul and Deron, its about Knicks retaining some assets to go through same situation as next year

first of all, much props to bowl rips for doing this

and this is why you cannot trade felton. he should be untouchable. we shouldnt be resigned to the fact that gallo and chandler are likely going to have to go, but fields, moz, felton need to stay in order for 2012 to work.

we cannot rely on pure capspace by taking on billups to get us anyone in 2012. we need assets because none of those teams will allow deron, cp3, or howard to walk away free. moz, fields, felton, maybe even gallo if he is still around need to stay for another sign and trade.

the road to the big three lies in our ability to keep our young assets, not ability to renounce the whole roster.

BowlRips doesn't just have everybody's favorite avatar, he's also a really good summarizer.

[ray_ray1]

i tweeted SAS "Denver management seems like there to incompetent to get a deal done, is that Walsh's fault. @stephenasmith" and he replied "@AzazNYK no sir. That's correct."

Follow me @AzazNYK

Good stuff, I'm following, I'm @RaySr19

[klemen4]

Again I will post a calculation I made before, because some posters are forgetting what is necessary for Walsh to give in trade and what not!

Walsh will now offer the players(contracts) NY would lose anyway in summer if wanted to make enough room($16m to $18m) to sign Carmelo as FA.

Following the calculation NY would be at $44.65m for 10 players, add to that 0,5m for one cap hold. So the final number is $45,15m for 11 players.

1. Stat 18.2
2. Felton 7.6
3. Turiaf 4.4
4. Mozgov 3.3
5. Gallinari 4.2
6. Randolph 2.9
7. Douglas 1.1
8. Walker 0.9
9. Fields 0.8
10. 2011 draft pick 1.25
11. Cap hold 0.5
-----------------------
$45,15m for 11 players.

So if Randolph is traded for pick (the best 2012 pick) you have $2,4m more room ($2,9m Randolph - $0,5m cap hold). So the final number is $42,75m meaning there is $15,25 to $17,25m left for Carmelo depending if the cap will be $58m or $60m. Enough!!!

So that why I think Chandler + Randolph pick (Curry+others) is the right offer.

But because NY signing Carmelo as FA loses MLE and bi-annual exception Walsh must add something in trade now. That is why at least one young player must be in!

MLE,bi-annual exception Vs. Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov'

For both sides IMO...

Chandler
Randolph OR pick
Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov

...is a fair offer.

Either way Chandler and Randolph are gone in summer to have enough cap space. Now it is only a question what would you rather have MLE,bi-annual exception(trade now) OR Gallinari/Fields/Mozgov(sign Melo in summer).

[seren]

Btw, I heard this from Evan Roberts on the FAN the other day: what if the new CBA gives teams the ability to "franchise" a player NFL style?

Evan Roberts is an idiot. There won't be any franchising. NFL had no free agency before franchising was introduced. That was a compromise from NFL players to get free agency. NBA players already have free agency. No way they go back. Plus we already have restricted free agency which is already causing a lot of trouble.

[thebuzzardman]

Ok, Sure it's been brought up 35,000 times, but:

IF Knicks can take out Gallo, Add felton, and take back Billups, for more cap relief and a younger PG for Denver (as asset) as fans, would you make the deal?

Knicks:
Chandler
Felton
Curry
AR
(future pick as sweetner?)

For
Melo
Billups

thoughts?

[klemen4]

Ok, Sure it's been brought up 35,000 times, but:

IF Knicks can take out Gallo, Add felton, and take back Billups, for more cap relief and a younger PG for Denver (as asset) as fans, would you make the deal?

Knicks:
Chandler
Felton
Curry
AR
(future pick as sweetner?)

For
Melo
Billups

thoughts?

This imo is the most realistic trade option!!!!!!!!!!

[seren]

One thing we all have to remember is we are not dealing out of a need. Melo is a luxury and would be good to have, but he is not a need. Our real needs are a center and a backup PG.

[TrueWarrior]

Question for you guys.... what would you rather hypothetically do....

Felton, Chandler, Randolph-pick, and Curry for Melo and Billups

or

Gallo, Chandler, Randolph-pick, and Curry for Melo?

In my eyes its easily the first one, because we keep Gallo but also replace Felton (who I dont like much anyway) with Billups. I think the first deal would be more than enough to get the deal done, and we get to keep Gallo/Fields/Mozgov. Hopefully we dont have to include Felton though, and can get the deal done without him.

The one where we keep Gallo. I don't see Gallo's big value with Melo but he's got more future trade value than Felton probably.

Good question though -- you are getting right at that "wrestling point" ... or where the rubber meets the road. These are the kinds of close calls that Donnie will have to sort out.

EDIT: But in your keep Gallo scenario, we trade Felton and don't get back Billups. That leaves us without a single natural PG on the roster. That's sacrificing the season perhaps.

Where do you see Felton being traded in the 2nd trade?

All Im getting at is our original offer was Chandler, Randolph/pick, Curry (and maybe another pick?) for Melo. No Billups or Felton. Well I think we should stay firm on that deal all the way to the bank unless some legit rentals surface.

IIf push comes to shove and Dallas or whatever offers something, then I think adding the Felton/Billups swap is the next step up in the negotiation, because it favors Denver a little bit. They get a younger PG with more trade value which is a plus if they're rebuilding but its fine for us because we get a more than adequate replacement in the meantime, while keeping a prime asset in Gallo. If thats still not good enough to beat a rental then we can take the Felton/Billups swap out, and add in Gallo, thus my 2nd trade.

This is of course if we even have to up our offer at all, which we dont at the moment unless another team steps up and Melo is 100% dead set on signing the extension.

Its always been about Melo and the money. He needs to man up and stay up. I know its hard to risk some cash but he said it himself hes made more than enough money in his career. Its about winning/happiness now. At least it should be. And lets not act like Melo still wont be making bank if he waits. He just has to stay patient. Its obvious though that Melo wants to come here ASAP and get the extension. He wants his cake and to eat it too and doesnt seem to care about how many pieces we lose in the process. Our leverage is being compromised a little bit.

Ok, Sure it's been brought up 35,000 times, but:

IF Knicks can take out Gallo, Add felton, and take back Billups, for more cap relief and a younger PG for Denver (as asset) as fans, would you make the deal?

Knicks:
Chandler
Felton
Curry
AR
(future pick as sweetner?)

For
Melo
Billups

thoughts?

Thats the trade Im talking about.

[Red Vines]

Not even trying to deal fairly with the Knicks is not going to convince Melo to re-sign with Denver--just the opposite. Compared to what Toronto and Cleveland came away with, I think Walsh will give them some good players but he's obviously not going to give them the farm.

It's like that SNL skit with the sarcastic Chinese leader (Walsh): "I liked to be kissed when someones doing sex to me..."

[god shammgod]

Again I will post a calculation I made before, because some posters are forgetting what is necessary for Walsh to give in trade and what not!

Walsh will now offer the players(contracts) NY would lose anyway in summer if wanted to make enough room($16m to $18m) to sign Carmelo as FA.

Following the calculation NY would be at $44.65m for 10 players, add to that 0,5m for one cap hold. So the final number is $45,15m for 11 players.

1. Stat 18.2
2. Felton 7.6
3. Turiaf 4.4
4. Mozgov 3.3
5. Gallinari 4.2
6. Randolph 2.9
7. Douglas 1.1
8. Walker 0.9
9. Fields 0.8
10. 2011 draft pick 1.25
11. Cap hold 0.5
-----------------------
$45,15m for 11 players.

So if Randolph is traded for pick (the best 2012 pick) you have $2,4m more room ($2,9m Randolph - $0,5m cap hold). So the final number is $42,75m meaning there is $15,25 to $17,25m left for Carmelo depending if the cap will be $58m or $60m. Enough!!!

So that why I think Chandler + Randolph pick (Curry+others) is the right offer.

But because NY signing Carmelo as FA loses MLE and bi-annual exception Walsh must add something in trade now. That is why at least one young player must be in!

MLE,bi-annual exception Vs. Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov'

For both sides IMO...

Chandler
Randolph OR pick
Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov

...is a fair offer.

Either way Chandler and Randolph are gone in summer to have enough cap space. Now it is only a question what would you rather have MLE,bi-annual exception(trade now) OR Gallinari/Fields/Mozgov(sign Melo in summer).

good break down. that's what it will be. 2 of the 4 young players. ar or pick. and possibly the billups/felton swap if they insist. more then that we won't do it.

[K_ick_God]

Denver simply does not want to trade with us unless they can rape us. And, they don't want to accommodate Melo by sending him to his dream team. It's looking more like if we're going to get Melo it will be as a FA. I guess we'll see what's more important to him - the money or the Knicks.

Btw, I heard this from Evan Roberts on the FAN the other day: what if the new CBA gives teams the ability to "franchise" a player NFL style?

Franchise tag will never happen. Stern already said it would be unfair and threw cold water on it.

[Phish Tank]

if dolan gives in to Denver's demands and/or Isiah gets into the picture again, I want no one to show up to Knick games anymore.

[Jitpal]

just keeping you updated

wilson_chandler Wilson Chandler
n the middle of the drama im mild sauce a 6 piece harold's boss

i believe he's saying even if he gets traded, he's calm & well fed

thank you

TheRebel is really going to love those quotes when Chandler is tweeting them from Denver next week. -Jitpal

[ray_ray1]

Ok, Sure it's been brought up 35,000 times, but:

IF Knicks can take out Gallo, Add felton, and take back Billups, for more cap relief and a younger PG for Denver (as asset) as fans, would you make the deal?

Knicks:
Chandler
Felton
Curry
AR
(future pick as sweetner?)

For
Melo
Billups

thoughts?

The only way I would put Felton into the deal is if we hold on to Gallo and Fields.

Otherwise:

Knicks:
Curry
AR/1st (Minny)
Chandler
Gallo

Denver:
Melo

[I_Love_NYK]

There is now a realgm article that Nets are out of the talks. I'm just going to turn this melo drama off until after the all-star break because really nothing is going to happen until after the break.

[Knick Swisher]

Denver is probably trying to scare Melo in these last few days into thinking: 'Knicks won't accept reasonable offer, lets get this Nets deal done now and move on' - but if he has come this far, there's no way he buys that.

I think a Gallo Felton Curry pick could get the deal done... If they don't bite on that, Chandler Gallo Felton Curry pick would be the final offer I see.. Either that, or taking Felton out all together and giving them Gallo Chandler Curry and a pick.... I don't see it getting done without Gallo in it, Chandler alone isn't appealing enough...

I'm expecting that middle ground to be found... but as of right now, still looks like Denver is trying to push their high offer... only a few days left.

The fact that we are talking about tossing in our 26 year old, awesome contract near allstar Felton for Billups..

The fact the giving up both Gallo AND Chandler is now percieve as a reason middle


....Means that Denver is pulling the strings here.

But then what does that say about our leverage?

Why has the middle changes from giving up Chandler, Curry and 2 picks? What has changed to make us give up two youths? Aren't we still bidding against ourselves here?

T

Thank you Rhodey. Everyone here is talking about what is a fair deal. You know what? F*ck fair. Was it fair that they essentially froze us out until a few weeks ago. They played the fool and now they're scrambling to try and make something happen so why should we have to give more than we have to. They know Melo isn't signing with them and they don't want to deal with an unhappy player for the rest of the season, only to lose him when the season's over and at best they would get a TPE and a second. The deal should be Chandler, 2 firsts (one from MIN and 2014 from us), and a TPE form MIN. If some one can beat that, then we could talk about a Felton/Billups swap or Chandler and Gallo.

[knicks742]

People need to remember what Donnie said last night. After the trade, you have to ask yourself, is the team better than it was before?

Which team is better?

PG Felton
SG Fields
SF Melo
PF Amar'e
C Mozzy

Bench: TD, Turiaf, Purple Drank, Walker

Or

PG Billups
SG Fields
SF Melo
PF Amar'e
C Mozzy

Bench: TD, Gallo, SW, Turiaf

In the short term, I think it's team 2. But I am really scared to let a young point guard like Felton go, especially in this system, and then basically be all in in having to get Paul or Williams instead of wanting to get them but having a backup plan in Felton.

[Context]

These reports are inaccurate. Melo is getting traded to the Knicks. Denver can't be that inept. 10 remaining home games + 5 play-off games + an unhappy Melo gives you nothing close in value to:

1st rounder, Chandler, and 22.3 million in pre deadline savings.

[bigball123]

It's very clear that by asking for this much, they are having extreme reservations about even dealing Melo, (not just to us). They did the same bait & hook to the Nets 2 weeks ago, and the Russian couldn't take it. I think that it is becoming more apparent that they are willing to roll the dice, hopefully have a long playoff run, and convince him to stay.

[RHODEY]

People need to remember what Donnie said last night. After the trade, you have to ask yourself, is the team better than it was before?

Which team is better?

PG Felton
SG Fields
SF Melo
PF Amar'e
C Mozzy

Bench: TD, Turiaf, Purple Drank, Walker

Or

PG Billups
SG Fields
SF Melo
PF Amar'e
C Mozzy

Bench: TD, Gallo, SW, Turiaf

In the short term, I think it's team 2. But I am really scared to let a young point guard like Felton go, especially in this system, and then basically be all in in having to get Paul or Williams instead of wanting to get them but having a backup plan in Felton.

oops