OT: Democratic Primary Thread

[Stannis]

I'm going to try to make this my last post, as I feel this thread has already turned toxic.

First of all, I want to say it was absolutely disgusting how the media and DNC treated Bernie. As a person, he is a great guy. They tried so hard to find dirt on the guy (like the Castro comments, even though Obama literally said the same thing). It wasn't working, so now they created some narrative that most of Bernie's supporters are "Bernie Bros" aka white males aka "like Trump supporters". Utter nonsense. And really shameful they would stoop this low. No other candidate has had such consistent record when it came to civil and women rights. Bernie always fought the good fight.

Many Muslims, including myself, love Bernie Sanders. The first candidate to ever reach out to Muslim American citizens. Too have majority of Muslims support a Jewish candidate is saying a lot. The media almost never talked about this. Because you know, these aren't "Bernie Bros".

Bernie had a big endorsement from Jessie Jackson as well. But now all the sudden, he's irrelevant. Bernie also had a huge Latino support too. And Bernie still did very well with young Black voters.

Literally, a white Biden surrogate told a black Sanders surrogate to shut up and not talk about MLK. And then later apologized by calling her an "angry black woman". I'm still shocked this wasn't a big deal. We had another Biden surrogate flat out say she would not vote for Bernie if he won.

Anyways, overall, this race came down to the youth vs Boomers. I just wanted to get that out of the way.

Eventually the DNC and leftist media are going to have to let things play out, and just leave it to the will of the people. These narratives they create and labeling anything a Russian asset is getting tiring. The worst thing they have done so far was creating the narrative that majority of Bernie voters are just like Trump supporters/straight while males ("Bernie Bros").


Some are getting really confident about Biden beating Trump. Hell, if this UBI goes through, this really helps Trump for November. I'm still 50/50 if I should vote for Biden or not. Yes, I want Trump to lose now. But at the same time, I don't want Trump 2.0 in 2024. If Obiden-Bama continue to be hypocrites in 2020 (big oil booms, corporate slaves, bombing babies, Patriot Act, etc.), mark my words, we will get Trump 2.0 in 2024 or 2028. This cycle is going to have to end sometime. And don't blame us if Biden loses. You can't get mad when the two choices are two piles of garbage.


I hope Bernie keeps continuing with the race. I think it will be good for both moderates and progressives. I want the message to keep getting out there. Once Biden goes to the finish line, and lets every state vote, it will help Biden in November. If the race ends now with millions unable to cast their votes, that's only going to piss progressives off more. If you are worried about not getting Bernie votes in November, finishing the primary is very important.

[Pointgod]

To those who use the terms "centrist", "moderate" and "compromise" as pejoratives, I would make the following observations:

1. The majority of both Americans and of Democrats are in the center. Any number of polls from Gallup, Pew and the series of exit polls this election cycle support that view. You may not like that fact, but its true.

2. Democrats simply are not buying what Bernie is selling. If it were otherwise, he would be outperforming not underperforming how he did in 2016 (when he benefited by running against an historically disliked candidate).

3. Bernie may have attracted lots of 20 and 30 something support at his rallies, but for some odd reason, those 20 and 30 somethings have not been coming out to vote in large numbers. Why is that? Too woke to vote, perhaps?

4. Any transformational legislation would require a fillibuster-proof 60 votes in the Senate. There will not be 60 Democratic senators in 2021, let alone 60 progressive Democratic senators. So please explain how M4A or the Green New Deal will get passed even if Bernie wins the nomination/presidency (which now can only happen on Earth 2)?

I know Bernie supporters are upset. But how does staying home in November out of spite because their guy didn't win help the progressive cause?

Two things that amazes me about Bernie supporters. They never realized that the math was never Bernie’s favor. His ceiling was always around that 30% mark because a lot of the Moderate vote was being split in the early states. If it had been a 3 way race between Biden, Bernie and Warren you might have seen Biden have even more momentum starting with Iowa.

The second thing is their refusal to acknowledge that a lot of Bernie’s success in 2016 was an anti Hillary vote and sexism. If you look at the states and specific districts be won in 2016 he’s getting creamed by Biden in 2020.

Let’s just face facts there isn’t some conspiracy against Sanders, it could his couldn’t appeal to the broader Democratic Party. It could be timing, it could be the messenger but at the end of the day you have to take L and support the vote Blue no matter who.

[Pointgod]

That’s not Republican talking point, what Joe was saying is that a Universal Healthcare alone isn’t going to address the issue. What you need is a coordinated Federal response and leadership from the top. And he’s right, assume that this had happened in 2021 in the first month of Bernie Sander’s Presidency, it’s not like he’s going to pass Medicare for all in the midst of a pandemic. Biden is looking at the issue based on the way things are now and from his previous knowledge considering his chief of staff was the Ebola czar, while Bernie is looking at the way things should be. I think they’re both right and not every disagreement is some attack on Progressives.

I disagree. If Biden wanted to make the point about how important strong leadership is to resolving this crisis he could have done so without trying to point out how one countries socialized medicine has thus far proven inadequate. If he feels Bernie is too much of an ideologue to effectively manage a pandemic like this he should have had the testicular fortitude to say so outright. But he didn't. Maybe because he didn't want to go negative. Maybe because he genuinely thinks Bernie would have been fine in that situation. But he didn't. What he did...in my opinion was try to throw socialized medicine under the bus.

Well I don’t expect Biden to make a pitch for Medicare4All. I only managed to watch clips from the debate but I think it was in response to Bernie saying that Medicare4All would help solve the coronavirus pandemic which is very true for the issue of testing but would not address the strain that the pandemic puts on the healthcare system.

[Clyde_Style]

Trump is not going to be saved by a bailout. The case load has only touched the tip of the iceberg. We're talking about possibly millions of people infected. That will take time to confirm provided they actually make the tests available FINALLY.

The fall-out from families losing loved ones crosses all partisan lines and is not going to be patched up by a thousand dollar check from the government.

This is the kinds of ads people will be seeing over and over between now and November.

Read on Twitter

The issue is staying unified and getting out the vote. Then we will win.

We bicker and divide, we will lose.

There will not be a 2024 to talk about if they get re-elected. That will be the end of electoral democracy as we know it and the death of every dream we have whether you call it moderate or progressive.

This current regime is a corrupt, court-stacking monster trying to create an untouchable executive branch that can drain the country of its resources and wealth to an extent still not imagined or understood. There is simply no comparison between the depth of corruption of the GOP and the Democrats. A consolidated GOP is like a nuclear war on the planet and our future. Please don't allow yourself to believe there is little difference. That's what white nationalists want you to believe. It is their playbook. They are just getting started raping our country. We won't survive another four years of this.

The notion that a Biden election will lead to something worse than Trump in 2024 is a bad faith gamble that will cost us everything if carried out to the point of not voting Democrat in November. With a unified House and Senate, there will be real opportunity to argue within the party for more than status quo measures, but real change.

Don't lose that opportunity, because if you do you will not likely ever get a chance to push for reform again. You probably will live most of your life under a repressive autocracy wondering how you could have let them have four more years to stack the courts and destroy our checks and balances.. It will happen if you think you have the luxury of another four years to bide your time. You don't.

Stay vigilant and stand together. Respect each other's POV and work to be inclusive so we move this country off the edge of the cliff and back in the right direction.

Sanders supporters deserve respect as long as they show respect. And vice versa. It goes both ways. It is necessary that we all grant each other the same respect for it to be an open table.

The party is not closed. It is opening up. This is your time to make progress within the party. Younger representatives are getting elected and taking their seat at the table. Don't leave them hanging. They are democrats too and they need your support.

Don't squander it please or I'll have to burn the McGovern T-Shirt I wore all Summer when I was a boy. I need all of you to keep your head in the game.

So many of you have strong ideas and a vision and you will make it possible only by eating some bitter to later taste some sweet. This is life. It is not fair. The deck is stacked against you. You can overcome, but only if you stay in the game for the long haul. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.

If you think older voters don't hear you, I will tell you many of them do hear you. Some will oppose you, some will align with you, but I hear you. Others do too. You guys are too young to give up out of cynicism. If you have the energy to learn policy and to be this angry then you have the energy to stay in the game and fight for a reformed party or even to start your own party, but don't give up and say nobody respects you. Consistency and the determination to persevere is what will win you respect. Quitting will not.

Peace

[DOT]

[
The second thing is their refusal to acknowledge that a lot of Bernie’s success in 2016 was an anti Hillary vote and sexism.

Kind of like how the moderates refuse to acknowledge that the only reason for Biden's success will be an anti-Trump vote and we shouldn't keep nominating milquetoast moderates if we want sustained success?

Also the refusal to acknowledge that a moderate that appeals to progressives is a much better candidate than a moderate that appeals to Republicans

[DOT]

If you think older voters don't hear you, I will tell you many of them do hear you. Some will oppose you, some will align with you, but I hear you

"And I will give you nothing you want"

You ever thought the reason you have to keep reminding progressives you're on the same side as them is cause your actions don't make it seem like you are?

But you hear me though. I ask for Biden to choose a more progressive VP and to not swing right in the general, and I'm told to shut up and vote for him anyways, we need to appeal to the Republicans. My vote doesn't matter as much as theirs, but if I don't vote for Biden, I'm the worst

If moderates were willing to work with progressives, we could see actual, long term change. But they're not. They're perfectly comfortable with losing the presidency every other cycle, then forcing the progressives to vote for them cause they have no other choice instead of actually listening to them and making them feel like part of the party. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez said that Biden and her shouldn't be in the same party, and she's right. But we have to be cause we have no other choice due to a broken system, and you're fine with taking advantage of that, then blaming progressives when your candidate loses

Get off your high horse.

[CharlesOakley]

I hate our primary system. When I look at the numbers, I still see Bernie as more electable. I don't care that Biden won South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Mississippi and Texas etc.

These states won't go democrat in a general election yet they "matter" for the primaries. 300 delegates for Biden that will never count. So stupid...

[Clyde_Style]

If you think older voters don't hear you, I will tell you many of them do hear you. Some will oppose you, some will align with you, but I hear you

"And I will give you nothing you want"

You ever thought the reason you have to keep reminding progressives you're on the same side as them is cause your actions don't make it seem like you are?

But you hear me though. I ask for Biden to choose a more progressive VP and to not swing right in the general, and I'm told to shut up and vote for him anyways, we need to appeal to the Republicans. My vote doesn't matter as much as theirs, but if I don't vote for Biden, I'm the worst

If moderates were willing to work with progressives, we could see actual, long term change. But they're not. They're perfectly comfortable with losing the presidency every other cycle, then forcing the progressives to vote for them cause they have no other choice instead of actually listening to them and making them feel like part of the party. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez said that Biden and her shouldn't be in the same party, and she's right. But we have to be cause we have no other choice due to a broken system, and you're fine with taking advantage of that, then blaming progressives when your candidate loses

Get off your high horse.

What is it that I, yes me personally, never gave you in the legislature? What is it that, I, me personally, deprived you of in terms of policy initiatives? I've voted progressive my whole damn life so how am I personally responsible for whatever it is that crawled up your butt this morning and compelled to be so damn rude?

[DOT]

If you think older voters don't hear you, I will tell you many of them do hear you. Some will oppose you, some will align with you, but I hear you

"And I will give you nothing you want"

You ever thought the reason you have to keep reminding progressives you're on the same side as them is cause your actions don't make it seem like you are?

But you hear me though. I ask for Biden to choose a more progressive VP and to not swing right in the general, and I'm told to shut up and vote for him anyways, we need to appeal to the Republicans. My vote doesn't matter as much as theirs, but if I don't vote for Biden, I'm the worst

If moderates were willing to work with progressives, we could see actual, long term change. But they're not. They're perfectly comfortable with losing the presidency every other cycle, then forcing the progressives to vote for them cause they have no other choice instead of actually listening to them and making them feel like part of the party. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez said that Biden and her shouldn't be in the same party, and she's right. But we have to be cause we have no other choice due to a broken system, and you're fine with taking advantage of that, then blaming progressives when your candidate loses

Get off your high horse.

What is it that I, yes me personally, never gave you in the legislature? What is it that, I, me personally, deprived you of in terms of policy initiatives? I've voted progressive my whole damn life so how am I personally responsible for whatever it is that crawled up your butt this morning and compelled to be so damn rude?

I mean, you could stop talking down to people like me. That'd be a nice start

You go on these long winded diatribes about how great you are, but then when I ask if we can have some change, the answer is always "now's not the time, now vote for my guy because you have no other choice."

I know you're not in charge of anything. But it's people like you, who say we should be grateful for candidates like Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden because the alternative is so much worse that are why no actual progress gets made. You talk about how you "hear" us, but you're not willing to actually listen to us

[Clyde_Style]

"And I will give you nothing you want"

You ever thought the reason you have to keep reminding progressives you're on the same side as them is cause your actions don't make it seem like you are?

But you hear me though. I ask for Biden to choose a more progressive VP and to not swing right in the general, and I'm told to shut up and vote for him anyways, we need to appeal to the Republicans. My vote doesn't matter as much as theirs, but if I don't vote for Biden, I'm the worst

If moderates were willing to work with progressives, we could see actual, long term change. But they're not. They're perfectly comfortable with losing the presidency every other cycle, then forcing the progressives to vote for them cause they have no other choice instead of actually listening to them and making them feel like part of the party. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez said that Biden and her shouldn't be in the same party, and she's right. But we have to be cause we have no other choice due to a broken system, and you're fine with taking advantage of that, then blaming progressives when your candidate loses

Get off your high horse.

What is it that I, yes me personally, never gave you in the legislature? What is it that, I, me personally, deprived you of in terms of policy initiatives? I've voted progressive my whole damn life so how am I personally responsible for whatever it is that crawled up your butt this morning and compelled to be so damn rude?

I mean, you could stop talking down to people like me. That'd be a nice start

You go on these long winded diatribes about how great you are, but then when I ask if we can have some change, the answer is always "now's not the time, now vote for my guy because you have no other choice."

I know you're not in charge of anything. But it's people like you, who say we should be grateful for candidates like Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden because the alternative is so much worse that are why no actual progress gets made. You talk about how you "hear" us, but you're not willing to actually listen to us

I asked you before what do you propose and you offered nothing. I was there listening and all I heard was silence. If all you are committed to is flaming people without an actual strategy for dealing with the political choices as they currently exist then suit yourself. If Bernie wants to keep running, then I say let him. He's entitled to that right. Other than that, unless Biden drops dead, the situation is we need to beat Trump first. If that is too dismissive for your sensibilities then good luck to you

[DOT]

What is it that I, yes me personally, never gave you in the legislature? What is it that, I, me personally, deprived you of in terms of policy initiatives? I've voted progressive my whole damn life so how am I personally responsible for whatever it is that crawled up your butt this morning and compelled to be so damn rude?

I mean, you could stop talking down to people like me. That'd be a nice start

You go on these long winded diatribes about how great you are, but then when I ask if we can have some change, the answer is always "now's not the time, now vote for my guy because you have no other choice."

I know you're not in charge of anything. But it's people like you, who say we should be grateful for candidates like Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden because the alternative is so much worse that are why no actual progress gets made. You talk about how you "hear" us, but you're not willing to actually listen to us

I asked you before what do you propose and you offered nothing. I was there listening and all I heard was silence. If all you are committed to is flaming people without an actual strategy for dealing with the political choices as they currently exist then suit yourself. If Bernie wants to keep running, then I say let him. He's entitled to that right. Other than that, unless Biden drops dead, the situation is we need to beat Trump first. If that is too dismissive for your sensibilities then good luck to you

Because I had already explained it. Several times, actually

But you aren't interested in actually listening and working together to solve anything, just grandstanding about how noble you are, so I didn't feel like explaining myself again, cause it was falling on deaf ears

Trump's a great excuse for you too. Because you know I have to vote for Biden over him, cause that's the only way forward. But instead of making people like me want to vote for Biden, you'd rather take advantage of that fact, without realizing it's that same thing that causes Dems to lose every other cycle. If y'all had actually listened to the progressives in 2016 and given us some concessions instead of relying on the "well you have to vote for Clinton cause Trump's the opposite of what you want," maybe we wouldn't even be in this scenario to begin with. But you still don't realize that the absence of a negative is not a positive

[thebuzzardman]

I mean, you could stop talking down to people like me. That'd be a nice start

You go on these long winded diatribes about how great you are, but then when I ask if we can have some change, the answer is always "now's not the time, now vote for my guy because you have no other choice."

I know you're not in charge of anything. But it's people like you, who say we should be grateful for candidates like Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden because the alternative is so much worse that are why no actual progress gets made. You talk about how you "hear" us, but you're not willing to actually listen to us

I asked you before what do you propose and you offered nothing. I was there listening and all I heard was silence. If all you are committed to is flaming people without an actual strategy for dealing with the political choices as they currently exist then suit yourself. If Bernie wants to keep running, then I say let him. He's entitled to that right. Other than that, unless Biden drops dead, the situation is we need to beat Trump first. If that is too dismissive for your sensibilities then good luck to you

Because I had already explained it. Several times, actually

But you aren't interested in actually listening and working together to solve anything, just grandstanding about how noble you are, so I didn't feel like explaining myself again, cause it was falling on deaf ears

Trump's a great excuse for you too. Because you know I have to vote for Biden over him, cause that's the only way forward. But instead of making people like me want to vote for Biden, you'd rather take advantage of that fact, without realizing it's that same thing that causes Dems to lose every other cycle. If y'all had actually listened to the progressives in 2016 and given us some concessions instead of relying on the "well you have to vote for Clinton cause Trump's the opposite of what you want," maybe we wouldn't even be in this scenario to begin with. But you still don't realize that the absence of a negative is not a positive

Clyde doesn't strike me as a Biden supporter at all. More like, "oh well, enough of the country didn't take to the progressive we need in Sanders, so vote for Biden over Trump, after the primaries are over"

I guess if other progressives want to stay home, not vote, and get some more Trump in their diet, well, they might get that opportunity as well.

Personally, I can't stand the Rockefeller Republican Democratic Party of the last 30 years, but I'd go with it this year over the alternative

[thebuzzardman]

Though, honestly, enough of the exchanges in here make my comment about the virus in the other thread all the more salient.

It can't wipe us all out soon enough.

[DOT]

I asked you before what do you propose and you offered nothing. I was there listening and all I heard was silence. If all you are committed to is flaming people without an actual strategy for dealing with the political choices as they currently exist then suit yourself. If Bernie wants to keep running, then I say let him. He's entitled to that right. Other than that, unless Biden drops dead, the situation is we need to beat Trump first. If that is too dismissive for your sensibilities then good luck to you

Because I had already explained it. Several times, actually

But you aren't interested in actually listening and working together to solve anything, just grandstanding about how noble you are, so I didn't feel like explaining myself again, cause it was falling on deaf ears

Trump's a great excuse for you too. Because you know I have to vote for Biden over him, cause that's the only way forward. But instead of making people like me want to vote for Biden, you'd rather take advantage of that fact, without realizing it's that same thing that causes Dems to lose every other cycle. If y'all had actually listened to the progressives in 2016 and given us some concessions instead of relying on the "well you have to vote for Clinton cause Trump's the opposite of what you want," maybe we wouldn't even be in this scenario to begin with. But you still don't realize that the absence of a negative is not a positive

Clyde doesn't strike me as a Biden supporter at all. More like, "oh well, enough of the country didn't take to the progressive we need in Sanders, so vote for Biden over Trump, after the primaries are over"

I guess if other progressives want to stay home, not vote, and get some more Trump in their diet, well, they might get that opportunity as well.

Personally, I can't stand the Rockefeller Republican Democratic Party of the last 30 years, but I'd go with it this year over the alternative

I mean, that's how I feel

Issue is people like him drank up the propaganda that Biden's the only one who can beat Trump, and he's a full on zealot to that idea. Biden wants to drift right? Great idea, we need to pick up those Republicans who aren't gonna vote for us anyways. Biden want another moderate VP? Amazing, brilliant move

I wanted Warren, cause she was my compromise with the moderates. Clyde is like a Dem homer, whoever they put up he's gonna be 100% behind

[Kampuchea]

Biden is only beating Trump if the Coronavirus gets much worse. And it’ll be **** horrible for the future of the Democratic Party when he gets absolutely nothing done in his term, empowering the Republican Party for the foreseeable future.

That’s my fear and the reason I may abstain if it’s not Bernie. The holier than thou Biden supporters don’t help matters.

[thebuzzardman]

Because I had already explained it. Several times, actually

But you aren't interested in actually listening and working together to solve anything, just grandstanding about how noble you are, so I didn't feel like explaining myself again, cause it was falling on deaf ears

Trump's a great excuse for you too. Because you know I have to vote for Biden over him, cause that's the only way forward. But instead of making people like me want to vote for Biden, you'd rather take advantage of that fact, without realizing it's that same thing that causes Dems to lose every other cycle. If y'all had actually listened to the progressives in 2016 and given us some concessions instead of relying on the "well you have to vote for Clinton cause Trump's the opposite of what you want," maybe we wouldn't even be in this scenario to begin with. But you still don't realize that the absence of a negative is not a positive

Clyde doesn't strike me as a Biden supporter at all. More like, "oh well, enough of the country didn't take to the progressive we need in Sanders, so vote for Biden over Trump, after the primaries are over"

I guess if other progressives want to stay home, not vote, and get some more Trump in their diet, well, they might get that opportunity as well.

Personally, I can't stand the Rockefeller Republican Democratic Party of the last 30 years, but I'd go with it this year over the alternative

I mean, that's how I feel

Issue is people like him drank up the propaganda that Biden's the only one who can beat Trump, and he's a full on zealot to that idea. Biden wants to drift right? Great idea, we need to pick up those Republicans who aren't gonna vote for us anyways. Biden want another moderate VP? Amazing, brilliant move

I wanted Warren, cause she was my compromise with the moderates. Clyde is like a Dem homer, whoever they put up he's gonna be 100% behind

I never got that from his posts about Biden. More like a "welp, might as well vote for him since it appears Bernie doesn't have enough support"

Neither does Warren.

All it took was some Pocahontas noise from Trump
I'd have gone for a Warren/Bernie or Bernie/Warren ticket, but that's not the case, for whatever and various reasons

I believe that most of the voters have sorted themselves into their ideological corners, so any candidate that the democrats put up should be one that excites those voters, as I think the crossovers are slim

The question is, and it's debated fiercely among EXPERTS, is if the amount of "excited voters" outstrips the amount of "independents/crossover voters"

I "think" not many people cross over/are independent anymore, but then again, I've read plenty of good arguments they still do, and the margins of victory/defeat are slim, and center around not traditionally progressive states, right - Michigan/Ohio/Pennsylvania - or I think that's the line of thought.

Biden was my last choice, but I'll vote for him.

If progressives stay home, 4 more years of Trump is a hell of a way to prove a point.

I'd rather get Biden in and let age/death/demographics boost progressive chances in the future.

[Pointgod]

If you think older voters don't hear you, I will tell you many of them do hear you. Some will oppose you, some will align with you, but I hear you

"And I will give you nothing you want"

You ever thought the reason you have to keep reminding progressives you're on the same side as them is cause your actions don't make it seem like you are?

But you hear me though. I ask for Biden to choose a more progressive VP and to not swing right in the general, and I'm told to shut up and vote for him anyways, we need to appeal to the Republicans. My vote doesn't matter as much as theirs, but if I don't vote for Biden, I'm the worst

If moderates were willing to work with progressives, we could see actual, long term change. But they're not. They're perfectly comfortable with losing the presidency every other cycle, then forcing the progressives to vote for them cause they have no other choice instead of actually listening to them and making them feel like part of the party. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez said that Biden and her shouldn't be in the same party, and she's right. But we have to be cause we have no other choice due to a broken system, and you're fine with taking advantage of that, then blaming progressives when your candidate loses

Get off your high horse.

This is what I don’t understand about this line of thinking. How does who Biden name as VP influence whether or not you support him? Other than Bernie or Elizabeth Warren who would both be poor picks for different reasons, who would be Progressive enough for you to support Biden? Stacy Abrams is Progressive, so is Cory Booker, Julian Castro? All of them would be Progressive on certain policy issues. But the reality is that no matter who Biden chooses for VP there will be sections of the Democratic Party that will feel left out. No matter who the VP pick is it’s a fact that Biden would be running on the most Progressive platform of any candidate. More Progressive than Hillary and even Obama. It may not go far enough for some people but the President isn’t a monarch, Congress and the Senate can put forward more Progressive legislation.

What’s also a fact is that 4 more years of Trump means that not only Progressives get none of what they want, they actually move backwards and when Trump assigns more Conservative judges to the Supreme Court you’ll get Progressives will get nothing for literally decades. For example if Trump succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, the next Democratic candidate isn’t going to implement Medicareforall, they’re going to have to figure out a way to stabilize healthcare system that will be absolute in shambles and absolute chaos.

[Zenzibar]

This is the man who's restore my faith in this countries leadership.

[thebuzzardman]

This is the man who's restore my faith in this countries leadership.

Yeah, I'll always appreciate that NY State Law he pushed that prevented anyone who got a severance package when laid off from collecting unemployment insurance.

Real progressive fellow

[DOT]

If you think older voters don't hear you, I will tell you many of them do hear you. Some will oppose you, some will align with you, but I hear you

"And I will give you nothing you want"

You ever thought the reason you have to keep reminding progressives you're on the same side as them is cause your actions don't make it seem like you are?

But you hear me though. I ask for Biden to choose a more progressive VP and to not swing right in the general, and I'm told to shut up and vote for him anyways, we need to appeal to the Republicans. My vote doesn't matter as much as theirs, but if I don't vote for Biden, I'm the worst

If moderates were willing to work with progressives, we could see actual, long term change. But they're not. They're perfectly comfortable with losing the presidency every other cycle, then forcing the progressives to vote for them cause they have no other choice instead of actually listening to them and making them feel like part of the party. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez said that Biden and her shouldn't be in the same party, and she's right. But we have to be cause we have no other choice due to a broken system, and you're fine with taking advantage of that, then blaming progressives when your candidate loses

Get off your high horse.

This is what I don’t understand about this line of thinking. How does who Biden name as VP influence whether or not you support him? Other than Bernie or Elizabeth Warren who would both be poor picks for different reasons, who would be Progressive enough for you to support Biden? Stacy Abrams is Progressive, so is Cory Booker, Julian Castro? All of them would be Progressive on certain policy issues. But the reality is that no matter who Biden chooses for VP there will be sections of the Democratic Party that will feel left out. No matter who the VP pick is it’s a fact that Biden would be running on the most Progressive platform of any candidate. More Progressive than Hillary and even Obama. It may not go far enough for some people but the President isn’t a monarch, Congress and the Senate can put forward more Progressive legislation.

What’s also a fact is that 4 more years of Trump means that not only Progressives get none of what they want, they actually move backwards and when Trump assigns more Conservative judges to the Supreme Court you’ll get Progressives will get nothing for literally decades. For example if Trump succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, the next Democratic candidate isn’t going to implement Medicareforall, they’re going to have to figure out a way to stabilize healthcare system that will be absolute in shambles and absolute chaos.

Because who Biden's VP is will be set up as a top tier candidate for 2024 cause Biden only wants one term. Plus, if it's as you say no big deal, then it shouldn't matter to you, so why not make them be progressive? It's simply a show of trying to unify the party instead of "suck it, I won, get in line"

And again, how do you not see the issue in playing the "well you have to vote for my candidate cause there's no other options" card? I have no choice but to vote for Biden because of all the stuff you mentioned, and you're holding my vote hostage. And you see no issue with that, in fact, you seem almost happy to do so. Then when Biden drifts right in the general (as every Dem candidate does), I'll be told again to shut up and fall in line cause the alternative is worse

And you wonder why progressives aren't enthusiastic about candidates like Biden