Knicks - Cavs PG II

[mpharris36]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I never thought he had a lack of skill. To me it's always been about his hips. I am not sure you can change that about him which will limit him. He's going to have to improve his handle to be able to pull up off the dribble and face up like Amare was able to do. He's a hard worker and a good team player which is a plus.

[F N 11]

Obi Jokic, he made some really good passes.

[N Y K]

I'm gonna temper my expectations for Quickley, but he's showed some damn good potential these last 2 games

Scoring at all 3 levels, distributing, and playing at least solid defense

I think his handle and his vision are both way better than advertised. I'll hold on to that CJ McCollum comparison by reminding myself that it took McCollum til his 3rd year to score more than 8 ppg, so we should be patient if Quickley doesn't play like this every night

But he showed more this game than any other PG on the roster this preseason, and if we're going by who's earned it, it should be him. Of course, I fully expect Payton to start game 1 and barring injury will be the starter til at least the All Star break, but Quickley deserves minutes and should be allowed to play through struggles that will inevitably come this year

If this is what we're getting this year, we might still be pretty bad, but it will at least be fun. Now just get Randle out and start Quick/Bullock/RJ/Obi/Mitch already.

You ask too much of this group

[N Y K]

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WHO IS LYING

I demand a recount

[2010]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I never thought he had a lack of skill. To me it's always been about his hips. I am not sure you can change that about him which will limit him. He's going to have to improve his handle to be able to pull up off the dribble and face up like Amare was able to do. He's a hard worker and a good team player which is a plus.

The stiff/high hips thing is valid but it's something that can be mitigated.

On defense he is workable and his deficiencies due to the hips can be masked with schemes and favorable coverages and matchups. We won't put him out on an island against SF's. Again, the things he can work on like getting stronger should allow him to reasonably check most 4's.

On offense as long as he tightens the handle, faces up and makes moves using a decisive 1st step, and gets comfortable shooting the NBA range jumper he will be fine. Those are all things that can be worked out and improved on.

But you can't teach court vision. You can't teach unselfishness. You can't teach motor. Those are things that are about how a player is wired. And Obi has those qualities.

[DOT]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I just like making jokes about how everyone said we should draft him cause he was older and therefore would be ready to go day one instead of a project that'll take a while to be ready, and now it looks like he's the same as any other rookie and will need time to settle in

But like I said, it took Siakam 3 years to really break out, and it's only fair to give Obi the same benefit of the doubt I give our other picks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[N Y K]

Read on Twitter

Knew it! Everyone hates foul baiting but to have that skill right out of the gate is impressive. Especially for the refs to actually call them for a rookie.

Did you all notice how much talking to the refs he’s been doing?

[N Y K]

Coming off a helluva game like this, why is the focus on picking Obi apart? Y'all sure know how to fk up a vibe. It's ok to say "I'm not sure what we have in player x yet, but I hope he works out the links."

You ask too much of people

[2010]

Since we in jump out the window early for clout mode, I'ma just leave this right here on some positive schit...

Spoiler:

Keep all receipts. I do this scouting schit. Which is why many of y'all got mad at me about your boy Frank but respect the wisdom now.

[Chanel Bomber]

He plays with intelligence. But he's definitely pressing. All of this talk about his size and muscles, it's just not relevant yet until you see how he functions when he calms down. He's a SF. People are reacting because they thought he was a bully PF and he isn't. So put on a different set of glasses. And just wait a bit.

He's going to be be a good player. And even if he does end up a role player we secured two solid rotation pieces in this draft. And if IQ is the prize then that's just how the cookie crumbles. Obi clearly feels the pressure of being # 8. IQ probably was poised regardless of draft position, but he has no pressure to prove anything due to being a lottery selection.

Again, this place pretty much is a cess pool of hot takes. Half of this board was calling RJ a bust last year and they were FOS. I was one of the people saying hold your horses just like now. So hold your horses

Saying Obi will be a good player is not less of a hot take than to say he won't be. You're putting as much certainty in your statements as the people who just choose to be more skeptical than you. If the skeptics need to hold their horses, then so should you, and so should everybody. And we can have nice, boring, flat conversations about how nobody knows the future. Or we can just oppose our views like we've been doing. I mean damn, I've certainly had to defend RJ on here.

You say Obi's a SF. I disagree but fine. But then we have to realize that the qualities he displayed as a PF/C in college and which made him a top prospect in the eyes of many in the first place are insignificant or of secondary importance for his NBA future. I think his functional athleticism is already questionable (at this stage) for the 4 spot, I don't think he has the mobility, the first step or the dribble to play the 3. I think that's setting him up to fail even more.

No one's saying he's a bust, but we should be able to discuss how his skill set fits in the modern NBA and how he fits on that team.

You're not necessarily wrong in anything you're saying. But of all things to discuss coming off the heels of this feel good win, is NOW the optimal time to dissect Obi? It's just a buzzkill, man.

Can we have one period where we revel in excitement over our draft picks and their development? Trust me, the ugly losses are right around the corner (have you seen our opening regular season schedule?) ...feel free to go in on the concerns about Obi at that time. But to do this now is just odd. People just want to be the first to say "he ain't it."

That's fine, but even with the uneven results he has shown enough to merit a grace period during a time of adjustments. Have you seen a recent PF we can develop that has shown his court vision, unselfishness, quick decision-making, and perseverance even when things don't immediately go his way?

Also, keep in mind he he was sharing the floor with most of the night. Bums who will be G Leaguers or cut. And even then, with them refusing to feature him in extensive gar-bahge time, as they tried to play for their fringe basketball lives, Obi never got frustrated or attempted to force things.

Man, I'm not worried about Obi. He just needs reps and to get stronger. Everything else will come, including the jumper. Then his whole game will open up.

That's why I refrained from mentioning him in my recap after the game yesterday.

Obi is gonna struggle in his rookie year, and he deserves a grace period as you said, especially if he plays with the right attitude, which he has shown thus far. My criticism is directed at the organization and fans' expectations about his game.

[Chanel Bomber]

I'm gonna temper my expectations for Quickley, but he's showed some damn good potential these last 2 games

Scoring at all 3 levels, distributing, and playing at least solid defense

I think his handle and his vision are both way better than advertised. I'll hold on to that CJ McCollum comparison by reminding myself that it took McCollum til his 3rd year to score more than 8 ppg, so we should be patient if Quickley doesn't play like this every night

But he showed more this game than any other PG on the roster this preseason, and if we're going by who's earned it, it should be him. Of course, I fully expect Payton to start game 1 and barring injury will be the starter til at least the All Star break, but Quickley deserves minutes and should be allowed to play through struggles that will inevitably come this year

If this is what we're getting this year, we might still be pretty bad, but it will at least be fun. Now just get Randle out and start Quick/Bullock/RJ/Obi/Mitch already.

You ask too much if this group

I agree with K-Dot about showing patience.

But as he said it's also about tempering expectations.

Some people preach patience but really have unrealistic expectations about certain players and become incredibly defensive about these guys when other posters point out how these expectations aren't met (eg Frank being a point guard, Obi being a floor spacer etc.).

Like I know my expectations for RJ - which are All-NBA high - are not backed by the numbers or the tape. Reading Wingo for instance say he would move RJ in the right trade makes me want to pull my hair and eat it, but if that's how he feels, then that's how he feels. Only thing I can do is counter as rationally as I can.

[god shammgod]

if some of these players taken behind him really take off, we're really gonna dump on obi. this is nothing. this is like constructive criticism. lol

mitch was our best player last year and y'all slandered him every day between last season and this one. he picks up a couple cheap fouls and you'll do it again. this is realgm, anyone can get it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nedleeds]

if some of these players taken behind him really take off, we're really gonna dump on obi. this is nothing. this is like constructive criticism. lol

mitch was our best player last year and y'all slandered him every day between last season and this one. he picks up a couple cheap fouls and you'll do it again. this is realgm, anyone can get it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lol Mitch broke the Fg % record while playing with the worst backcourt in basketball under joke rec league coaching and people were still ripping him. Oh, he's younger than Obi as well.

[knicksNOTslick]

Obi seems to have a BIG adjustment to make, in terms of being impactful.

He's clearly used to be the MAN in an offense, where the offense was centered around him...well, being a center. Or PF. Who set all the picks with the PG and got a lot of touches that way.

It's not to say he can't play off the ball SOME, or that he isn't a willing or smart passer - he is.

But his role and path to success, in the bigger, stronger NBA, and also as an initial 3rd/4th option, and where there's a few other guys who should be setting the pick, is going to take a bit.

I think he's going to be far less than "immediately helpful" and in fact is a bit of a project.

He'll be helpful with some excitement and dunks off the bench. Not unlike everyone expected rookie KP to come off the bench and just be a shotblocker, but he surprised. Instead, for Obi, more like it's not surprising, at least to me, that he'll come off the bench and he's a bit raw and will need half the year, at least, to get acclimated.

Leon's son might have oversold his client to his dad, a bit.

I mean, I'll say it

He's probably used to being the biggest, fastest, most athletic guy in the gym

Now that he's in the NBA, he's facing guys who can match him physically every night, and he'll need to get his skills to the point where he can be effective, when he probably hasn't had to fully use them in quite a while.

It's honestly a little worrisome.
NodopeonSunday's thing about 6'7"-ish athletic guys good in college...I forget what the set of statistics he used, but I'm starting to wonder. Like another Williams the Knicks had for a minute: Derrick Williams

I dunno if Derrick Williams is a good comparison. Dude had very little skills apart from being a high flyer. He had no range since he never developed a 3 point shot (he could've been a stretch 4) and wasn't a smart player which is why he never turned into more than a role player. Problem was he never developed any skills and was drafted too high so that added a lot of pressure.

As bad as Obi has been playing, you can see he's overthinking some parts of the game. But he's shown that he can be a good passer and can hit a 3. Already better than Williams. He just needs to get more consistent and let the game come to him. I don't see him being worse than Derrick Williams. Might not be a star but a solid player if he can improve his defense.

[god shammgod]

the question is, what is obi's path to stardom ? and if you say he doesn't need to be one, why take a 22 year old who is neither really a very good shooter or defender since those are the most important attributes for role players in this decade.

his path to stardom, as far as i can tell, is improving his shot, handle & shot creation for himself. he's already a little good at creating for others but it's not the same for himself so far. that's sort of a lot.

[Spree2Houston]

Some of y’all were calling RJ a bust last year. Look at him now. Not every guy is going to come in dominating like Lebron James or Luka Doncic. McCollum came into the league at 22 but didn’t score more than 8 points until 25. It’s still a transition going from the college game to the pro game. The game will slow down for him soon. I also believe Toppin needs to be in the right lineup to excel. Him and Randle cannot play together which he did for a good chunk last night. His best game was his first game where he barely was on the floor with Randle. Toppin is a gym rat and he’s New York Tuff. He’ll be aight

[cgf]

the question is, what is obi's path to stardom ? and if you say, he doesn't need to be one, why take a 22 year old who is neither really a very good shooter or defender since those are the most important attributes for role players in this decade.

his path to stardom, as far as i can tell, is improving his shot, handle & shot creation for himself. he's already a little good at creating for others but it's not the same for himself so far. that's sort of a lot.

His path to stardom is merging those old-blake elements that he already has to his game; though his shot & handle still need polish; with his young-Blake like hops.

[MaseInYourFace]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I never thought he had a lack of skill. To me it's always been about his hips. I am not sure you can change that about him which will limit him. He's going to have to improve his handle to be able to pull up off the dribble and face up like Amare was able to do. He's a hard worker and a good team player which is a plus.

The stiff/high hips thing is valid but it's something that can be mitigated.

On defense he is workable and his deficiencies due to the hips can be masked with schemes and favorable coverages and matchups. We won't put him out on an island against SF's. Again, the things he can work on like getting stronger should allow him to reasonably check most 4's.

On offense as long as he tightens the handle, faces up and makes moves using a decisive 1st step, and gets comfortable shooting the NBA range jumper he will be fine. Those are all things that can be worked out and improved on.

But you can't teach court vision. You can't teach unselfishness. You can't teach motor. Those are things that are about how a player is wired. And Obi has those qualities.

Yeah I'm not too worried about him. It's actually a good sign he's not forcing things too much.

[MaseInYourFace]

Y'all need to overstand Obi has always been a late bloomer. I wouldn't bet against him. The track record for jumping out the window and pegging him as one who will be unsuccessful isn't exactly smart money.

He had no scholarship offers after 4 years of high school. He had a late growth spurt. He had no one predicting he'd be National Player of the Year or a future lottery pick one day when he arrived at Dayton. I don't think sticking a fork in him early puts you on the smart board.

I just like making jokes about how everyone said we should draft him cause he was older and therefore would be ready to go day one instead of a project that'll take a while to be ready, and now it looks like he's the same as any other rookie and will need time to settle in

But like I said, it took Siakam 3 years to really break out, and it's only fair to give Obi the same benefit of the doubt I give our other picks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I'm not expecting him to take a long while to figure it out either though. I think he'll be in a good place by end of the season.

[MaseInYourFace]

Read on Twitter

Knew it! Everyone hates foul baiting but to have that skill right out of the gate is impressive. Especially for the refs to actually call them for a rookie.

Did you all notice how much talking to the refs he’s been doing?

Like it but he'll learn quick to not be so forward with the press. I wouldn't have told the press all that lol.