Randle's Future

[3toheadmelo]

you guys still think KAT is gonna be in New York? cmon guys...

Pure delusionalism, but it's fun to watch since it's free entertainment. Got some folks in here everyday wishing for a KAT trade based on what a random guy on Knicks fan TV said some of them even wanna add in Deuce for KAT. It's really terrible trade ideas, but fun to laugh at. It's like reading Robert Randolph tweets.

[prophet_of_rage]

The team looked incredible in January after the OG trade and before the Detroit trade with Mitch still injured.
The defense and net rating without RJ, IQ, Mitch, Bogey and Burks....

Brunson, OG, Randle +26.1 Great scoring and great defense but
Brunson, OG without Randle +25.7 Still great scoring and defense

Brunson, Randle without OG -0.2 Great scoring and atrocious defense

Randle without Brunson and OG -16.3 Poor scoring and atrocious defense

January clearly showed the value of OG's defense and Brunson has been the offensive engine for the last couple seasons including January but did it really show the positive overall value of Randle? I'm not saying that Randle doesn't bring any value to the team but OG deserves a ton of the credit for the success of that month and it was still only one month.

It actually did because once Randle went down, we lost a bunch of more games. The record doesnt lie.
Knicks record without Randle this season: 21-15
Knicks record with Randle this season: 29-17

There's a reason why players were way more efficient when Randle was on the court versus when he wasn't.

Read on Twitter

Except that when Randle went down OG also went down and iHart was on a minutes restriction leading to 40+ minutes non-shooters like Hart and Precious for an entire month while also being paired with iHart.

The question was not if Randle is a better offensive option than someone like Precious for 40+ minutes. The question was what was the impact of Randle on January based on the numbers of January since we want to put so much weight into the success of that one month.

Edit - Those shooting numbers are from before Randle's injury but it still doesn't explain how the Knicks continued to be effective without Randle on the court in January.

They are showing OG on/off numbers so they are clearly just factoring in the time they spent playing together. Randle had a positive effect on everybody. It isn't about the time when neither OG nor Randle was available. In those minutes OG was better with Randle than without. So was Brunson. So was DDV. And that makes sense.

The Knicks continued to be effective because they were a good team. They continued to be less effective than with Julius Randle because Randle is a good player and better than his replacement.

This isn't a difficult puzzle. You would think a two time All-NBA player would get more recognition for his talent.

[Iron Mantis]

Please stop stalking me, Kendra Standle.

[3toheadmelo]

It actually did because once Randle went down, we lost a bunch of more games. The record doesnt lie.
Knicks record without Randle this season: 21-15
Knicks record with Randle this season: 29-17

There's a reason why players were way more efficient when Randle was on the court versus when he wasn't.

Read on Twitter

Except that when Randle went down OG also went down and iHart was on a minutes restriction leading to 40+ minutes non-shooters like Hart and Precious for an entire month while also being paired with iHart.

The question was not if Randle is a better offensive option than someone like Precious for 40+ minutes. The question was what was the impact of Randle on January based on the numbers of January since we want to put so much weight into the success of that one month.

Edit - Those shooting numbers are from before Randle's injury but it still doesn't explain how the Knicks continued to be effective without Randle on the court in January.

They are showing OG on/off numbers so they are clearly just factoring in the time they spent playing together. Randle had a positive effect on everybody. It isn't about the time when neither OG nor Randle was available. In those minutes OG was better with Randle than without. So was Brunson. So was DDV. And that makes sense.

The Knicks continued to be effective because they were a good team. They continued to be less effective than with Julius Randle because Randle is a good player and better than his replacement.

This isn't a difficult puzzle. You would think a two time All-NBA player would get more recognition for his talent.

Facts!

[3toheadmelo]

Lol the RJ Barb keeps quoting my posts from other posters responses and responds to them by removing by name every day but says I'm stalking him. Poor guy is delusional and trying to play the victim like a Karen.

[DaGawd]

rj continues to be a dark cloud over this team..smh

[Iron Mantis]

Are y'all done derailing the thread or are we ready to continue talking about Randle's future??

[3toheadmelo]

rj continues to be a dark cloud over this team..smh

Hate to see it man

[Iron Mantis]

This is a huge reason why Randle has no extension yet...

Randle has the worst playoff PER in NBA History of any player putting up 12 shot attempts.

Read on Twitter

If they can't trade him for KAT, Randle's extension or free agency will be based on whether or not he can rise above being the worst playoff performer in history.

[3toheadmelo]

The Knicks aren't focused on an extension and same for Randle as well. They have until June. Really weird that RJ barbz want to push a false narrative that the Knicks don't want to keep him because they aren't rushing an extension immediately.
Via Begley

If the Knicks sign Julius Randle to a big extension, he can no longer be moved prior to the 2025 trade deadline. Players like Randle who sign big extensions can’t be traded until six months after the date of the agreement (more on that below). Beyond that, I don’t have a concrete update for you. We reported last month that an extension wasn’t at the forefront for either Randle or the Knicks. Randle has been eligible for an extension since Aug. 3. The Knicks and Randle can agree to an extension at any time between now and June 30. Based on how things have played out since Aug. 3, it seems like neither side is in a rush to get something done.

[3toheadmelo]

Sorry Kat lovers.

Read on Twitter

[aggo]

im happy for Julius,

hes taken the decision out of our hands.


I hope he gets that 5/310. there will always be a team like Washington or Detroit that needs to fill up its cap space to hit the minimum

[StlHawksFan]

This is a huge reason why Randle has no extension yet...

Randle has the worst playoff PER in NBA History of any player putting up 12 shot attempts.

Read on Twitter

If they can't trade him for KAT, Randle's extension or free agency will be based on whether or not he can rise above being the worst playoff performer in history.

His shooting was definitely bad in the playoffs but it wasn't the reason we won or lost. Let's remember context:

Knicks as a whole vs. Atlanta in 21: .398 shooting
Randle shooting vs. Atlanta in 21: .298 shooting
Loss (Randle had the 3rd lowest net rating because he was double or triple teamed every time down and the rest of the team couldn't hit an open shot)

Knicks as a whole vs. Cleveland in 23: .430 shooting
Randle vs. Cleveland in 23: .338 shooting
Win (Randle had the 3rd lowest net rating because of amazing coverage by first team all-def and 3rd in DPY Evan Mobley)

Knicks as a whole vs. Miami in 23: .436 shooting
Randle vs Miami in 23: .411 shooting
Loss (Randle had the 3rd highest net rating on the team despite playing on one ankle)

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[Iron Mantis]

This is a huge reason why Randle has no extension yet...

Randle has the worst playoff PER in NBA History of any player putting up 12 shot attempts.

Read on Twitter

If they can't trade him for KAT, Randle's extension or free agency will be based on whether or not he can rise above being the worst playoff performer in history.

His shooting was definitely bad in the playoffs but it wasn't the reason we won or lost. Let's remember context:

Knicks as a whole vs. Atlanta in 21: .398 shooting
Randle shooting vs. Atlanta in 21: .298 shooting
Loss (Randle had the 3rd lowest net rating because he was double or triple teamed every time down and the rest of the team couldn't hit an open shot)

Knicks as a whole vs. Cleveland in 23: .430 shooting
Randle vs. Cleveland in 23: .338 shooting
Win (Randle had the 3rd lowest net rating because of amazing coverage by first team all-def and 3rd in DPY Evan Mobley)

Knicks as a whole vs. Miami in 23: .436 shooting
Randle vs Miami in 23: .411 shooting
Loss (Randle had the 3rd highest net rating on the team despite playing on one ankle)

I hear what you're saying.

It all boils down to this: He has the opportunity this playoffs to show what he's worth.

[JayTWill]

It actually did because once Randle went down, we lost a bunch of more games. The record doesnt lie.
Knicks record without Randle this season: 21-15
Knicks record with Randle this season: 29-17

There's a reason why players were way more efficient when Randle was on the court versus when he wasn't.

Read on Twitter

Except that when Randle went down OG also went down and iHart was on a minutes restriction leading to 40+ minutes non-shooters like Hart and Precious for an entire month while also being paired with iHart.

The question was not if Randle is a better offensive option than someone like Precious for 40+ minutes. The question was what was the impact of Randle on January based on the numbers of January since we want to put so much weight into the success of that one month.

Edit - Those shooting numbers are from before Randle's injury but it still doesn't explain how the Knicks continued to be effective without Randle on the court in January.

They are showing OG on/off numbers so they are clearly just factoring in the time they spent playing together. Randle had a positive effect on everybody. It isn't about the time when neither OG nor Randle was available. In those minutes OG was better with Randle than without. So was Brunson. So was DDV. And that makes sense.

The Knicks continued to be effective because they were a good team. They continued to be less effective than with Julius Randle because Randle is a good player and better than his replacement.

This isn't a difficult puzzle. You would think a two time All-NBA player would get more recognition for his talent.

No, it's not a difficult puzzle but it is not as simple as just focusing on the positive aspects of Randle's game as if that is the only thing that matters. And it is also not as simple as saying the Knicks were worse after he got injured as if that was the only thing the team was dealing with at that time.

The January numbers showed that the team looked great with Randle on the court in January. The numbers also show that the team looked great in January without Randle on the court. Almost any line with Brunson and OG on the court was very successful on both ends of the court. Much of the excitement around the team is based upon the small sample size of January after the OG trade and before the Detroit trade with no RJ, IQ, Mitch, Bogey and Burks but if you look at the lineups without those guys the numbers show that Randle helps the offense while also hurting the defense.

Brunson/DDV/OG/Randle/iHart +17.1 128.3 off/ 111.2 def per 100 possessions
Brunson/DDV/OG/iHart no Randle +23.2 123.2 off/ 100.0 def per 100

In no way am I saying that the team is better without Randle. These are incredibly small sample sizes that can easily be skewed by a good or bad stretch but the small sample size didn't show that Randle was irreplaceable. For example...

Brunson/DDV/Hart/OG/iHart +15.1 120.2 off / 105.0 def per 100

Randle is clearly a more talented offensive player than Hart and the offense was better with Randle on the court with the starters instead of Hart but Hart still impacts the game in positive ways that Randle doesn't and that is without having the same type of gravity Randle has around the paint.

Looking at the record with Randle and OG and comparing it to the record after that is unfair. One it was only a 14 game stretch where the team had success for the most part no matter how Randle played. Two it's not like the team traded Randle for someone like RJ at the end of January with the rest of the team remaining healthy and things just fell apart. Randle went down at the exact same time OG went down while Mitch was already out and iHart had his minutes reduced. Hart and Precious were thrust into the starting lineup playing 40+ minutes for an extended period while DDV and McBride had their roles expanded well beyond anyone ever expected at the start of the season.

The team then traded their former 3 and D starting 2 guard for Bogey and Burks who were absolutely terrible. Mitch and OG returned later in the season. Mitch was never fully healthy and OG returned too soon, attempting to play through the pain before having to sit out again. The rest of the players were grinded down from playing shorthanded for months. I can't imagine how Randle would have performed or reacted if he was put in the situation Brunson was in from the end of January on.

I'm not saying Randle does not help the team in some ways but I can't ignore that he hurts the team in some ways too. The franchise has to weigh all the things he brings to the table good and bad when deciding how to move forward with or without him. I don't care about his awards. OG will likely never be first, second or even third team All-NBA but I would take healthy OG on this team over healthy Randle any day of the week.

Personally I am open to trading Randle before possibly committing to him until his mid-30's or losing him for nothing and it doesn't have to be for a superstar or even a clear traditional top 2 option. I'd rather get something positive for him than lose him for nothing. I don't think the Knicks can just sit and wait to see how things playout in the postseason. They can't risk letting his talent or salary slot walk.

I believe they need to be able to project forward to how they believe the team and specifically Randle will perform in the post-season this year and going forward along with their thoughts on coming to a future contract agreement. They can use the time from now until the trade deadline to make that assessment.

I'm willing to trade him for someone that may perform better in the playoffs or someone who may have more of a potential positive overall impact and not just on certain players' 3 pt field goal percentages. If the team could improve the center rotation while adding a less dynamic but more consistent offensive player by including Randle's salary I would be open to that also.

[JayTWill]

The Knicks aren't focused on an extension and same for Randle as well. They have until June. Really weird that RJ barbz want to push a false narrative that the Knicks don't want to keep him because they aren't rushing an extension immediately.
Via Begley

If the Knicks sign Julius Randle to a big extension, he can no longer be moved prior to the 2025 trade deadline. Players like Randle who sign big extensions can’t be traded until six months after the date of the agreement (more on that below). Beyond that, I don’t have a concrete update for you. We reported last month that an extension wasn’t at the forefront for either Randle or the Knicks. Randle has been eligible for an extension since Aug. 3. The Knicks and Randle can agree to an extension at any time between now and June 30. Based on how things have played out since Aug. 3, it seems like neither side is in a rush to get something done.

But the Knicks and Brunson had the same option to wait until next year yet they didn't. The Knicks and Randle obviously have not been able to reach an agreement. Why post a quote showing that the Knicks still have the option to trade him by not signing him now as a way to show the Knicks' commitment to him? I'm not saying they will trade him but they have left that door open.

[StlHawksFan]

The Knicks aren't focused on an extension and same for Randle as well. They have until June. Really weird that RJ barbz want to push a false narrative that the Knicks don't want to keep him because they aren't rushing an extension immediately.
Via Begley

If the Knicks sign Julius Randle to a big extension, he can no longer be moved prior to the 2025 trade deadline. Players like Randle who sign big extensions can’t be traded until six months after the date of the agreement (more on that below). Beyond that, I don’t have a concrete update for you. We reported last month that an extension wasn’t at the forefront for either Randle or the Knicks. Randle has been eligible for an extension since Aug. 3. The Knicks and Randle can agree to an extension at any time between now and June 30. Based on how things have played out since Aug. 3, it seems like neither side is in a rush to get something done.

But the Knicks and Brunson had the same option to wait until next year yet they didn't. The Knicks and Randle obviously have not been able to reach an agreement. Why post a quote showing that the Knicks still have the option to trade him by not signing him now as a way to show the Knicks' commitment to him? I'm not saying they will trade him but they have left that door open.

Well, of course. Randle+Precious+Diop+MLE S&T = up to $43M in salary coming back. That opens the door for a trade for all but the 15 highest paid players in the league.

Here are the players earning between $36M and $43M:
Anthony Davis
Trae Young
Zach LaVine
Luka Doncic
Fred VanVleet
Lauri Markkanen
Tyrese Haliburton
Pascal Siakam
Anthony Edwards
Kyrie Irving
Domantas Sabonis
Ben Simmons
Darius Garland
Ja Morant
Zion Williamson
OG Anunoby
Jamal Murray
Brandon Ingram

Aside from BI, I'm not sure who is on the market; but the point is, you want that flexibility just in case. For example, maybe Sacramento is sitting in 10th and the team decides to Fail for Flagg (Capture the Flagg?). Sabonis working in the iHart role would be a perfect fit.

[3toheadmelo]

This is a huge reason why Randle has no extension yet...

Read on Twitter

If they can't trade him for KAT, Randle's extension or free agency will be based on whether or not he can rise above being the worst playoff performer in history.

His shooting was definitely bad in the playoffs but it wasn't the reason we won or lost. Let's remember context:

Knicks as a whole vs. Atlanta in 21: .398 shooting
Randle shooting vs. Atlanta in 21: .298 shooting
Loss (Randle had the 3rd lowest net rating because he was double or triple teamed every time down and the rest of the team couldn't hit an open shot)

Knicks as a whole vs. Cleveland in 23: .430 shooting
Randle vs. Cleveland in 23: .338 shooting
Win (Randle had the 3rd lowest net rating because of amazing coverage by first team all-def and 3rd in DPY Evan Mobley)

Knicks as a whole vs. Miami in 23: .436 shooting
Randle vs Miami in 23: .411 shooting
Loss (Randle had the 3rd highest net rating on the team despite playing on one ankle)

I hear what you're saying.

It all boils down to this: He has the opportunity this playoffs to show what he's worth.

Jokes/Trolling aside, we can agree on this. If Randle is healthy this time around, he has to perform at a high level. I'm optimistic because he shot the ball better against the Heat with the best offensive rating on the team and a good net rating on one ankle. Looked like he was starting to figure things out. If he's healthy and flames out, then it will be in the best interests of the team to move on from him. But I'm optimistic it will work out, and I think the Knicks feel the same way since they aren't shopping him around or trying to move him right now.

[aggo]

Randle doesn’t wanna be here


And that’s ok.