Shumpert lighting up the Vegas League

[knicksosmoove]

yeah, Fields is athletic in the way that Bill Walker and Joe Alexander are athletic: he has good vert on his jumper but that's about it. In the NBA that isn't all that useful. Amar'e and Carmelo for example are not particularly high flyers, but because they are quick, powerful, explosive, and coordinated they play like supreme athletes.

I don't want to crap on Landry too much because he IS a good "little things" player which is something we need considering many of our guys are the opposite of little things players (see: Amar'e Stoudemire), and at one point this season he did seem to have a pretty reliable jumper (but doesn't everyone on the Knicks seem to have a pretty reliable jumper?). But I do think Iman's upside is considerably higher than Landry's because he has a real shooting guard build with the speed to match it and he looks like he has point guard level handle. If his jumper is actually NBA-level and he is smart enough to play within our offense he could be very good for us.

[Capn'O]

Someone on another message board posted this Shumpert line for game 2 (not sure what the source is):

[edit] the formatting didn't work, but basically it was 5/10 on 2-pointers, 3/4 on 3-pointers, 19 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal.

If it's accurate, looks as if he's still hitting shots.

I haven't seen a lick of d played in these games but those are nice numbers and show he can drive and hit the open J. This is what we need from him. I wonder what his selection will be like when he's getting hawked. That, to me, is the critical thing with this guy.

I do hope we don't miss much season. If Shumpert is what I think he is we have an opportunity to do some real damage.

[Iman Shumpert]

yeah, Fields is athletic in the way that Bill Walker and Joe Alexander are athletic: he has good vert on his jumper but that's about it. In the NBA that isn't all that useful. Amar'e and Carmelo for example are not particularly high flyers, but because they are quick, powerful, explosive, and coordinated they play like supreme athletes.

Huh? Fields has a set shot. He has no vert on his jumper.

I don't want to crap on Landry too much because he IS a good "little things" player which is something we need considering many of our guys are the opposite of little things players (see: Amar'e Stoudemire), and at one point this season he did seem to have a pretty reliable jumper (but doesn't everyone on the Knicks seem to have a pretty reliable jumper?). But I do think Iman's upside is considerably higher than Landry's because he has a real shooting guard build with the speed to match it and he looks like he has point guard level handle. If his jumper is actually NBA-level and he is smart enough to play within our offense he could be very good for us.

Fields was a steal because 2nd rounders rarely make an NBA roster, much less start and contribute on a playoff team. But people confused that with actually getting a top player. Fields is a good hustle guy and he can do a lot of little things. But he's not starter material.

And I did really like Fields.

[knicksosmoove]

Huh? Fields has a set shot. He has no vert on his jumper.

Fields was a steal because 2nd rounders rarely make an NBA roster, much less start and contribute on a playoff team. But people confused that with actually getting a top player. Fields is a good hustle guy and he can do a lot of little things. But he's not starter material.

And I did really like Fields.

Whoops, I just meant to say vert, not vert on his jumper. You are right, he has a set shot, no jumper. He does seem to jump pretty high though; his head gets up to the rim.

Iman actually has good vert on his jumper.

Yes, ideally Landry is a bench player. I thought it was a little ironic that the only bone Barkley could throw us all year was that he thought Fields should have been ROY and I completely disagreed; Blake, Wall, Cousins, Monroe and probably others are clearly superior players. He is still a nice piece to have picked up in the second round and I do think he will get his groove back once we build up better chemistry.

[Falstaffxx]

Someone on another message board posted this Shumpert line for game 2 (not sure what the source is):

[edit] the formatting didn't work, but basically it was 5/10 on 2-pointers, 3/4 on 3-pointers, 19 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal.

If it's accurate, looks as if he's still hitting shots.

I haven't seen a lick of d played in these games but those are nice numbers and show he can drive and hit the open J. This is what we need from him. I wonder what his selection will be like when he's getting hawked. That, to me, is the critical thing with this guy.

I do hope we don't miss much season. If Shumpert is what I think he is we have an opportunity to do some real damage.

Well the nice thing is that Amar'e and Carmelo will be drawing a lot of attention, so Shumpert may get more than his share of open shots.

[Falstaffxx]

Whoops, I just meant to say vert, not vert on his jumper. You are right, he has a set shot, no jumper. He does seem to jump pretty high though; his head gets up to the rim.

Fields had a 39 inch vertical at the combine (but I guess you're right about him being more of a set-shot guy). He does use that vertical pretty awesomely on put-back dunks though.

[Capn'O]

Someone on another message board posted this Shumpert line for game 2 (not sure what the source is):

[edit] the formatting didn't work, but basically it was 5/10 on 2-pointers, 3/4 on 3-pointers, 19 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal.

If it's accurate, looks as if he's still hitting shots.

I haven't seen a lick of d played in these games but those are nice numbers and show he can drive and hit the open J. This is what we need from him. I wonder what his selection will be like when he's getting hawked. That, to me, is the critical thing with this guy.

I do hope we don't miss much season. If Shumpert is what I think he is we have an opportunity to do some real damage.

Well the nice thing is that Amar'e and Carmelo will be drawing a lot of attention, so Shumpert may get more than his share of open shots.

Right. This is my thinking as well. He won't HAVE TO take on a prolific scorer's mentality like he did in college. But did that stop Tony Douglas from being a dumb ****? No. Sadly, it didn't.

People were saying he didn't force stuff yesterday... all signs are pointing in the right direction... but who knows really at this point.

[knicksosmoove]

Whoops, I just meant to say vert, not vert on his jumper. You are right, he has a set shot, no jumper. He does seem to jump pretty high though; his head gets up to the rim.

Fields had a 39 inch vertical at the combine (but I guess you're right about him being more of a set-shot guy). He does use that vertical pretty awesomely on put-back dunks though.

Yes, that is what I was talking about. If we're looking at only pure vert, 39 inches is very impressive for someone of Landry's height (Iman's vert is 42 inches which is scary good for a 6'4 and some change guy) but the other aspects of his athleticism are not elite.

[TKF]

yeah, Fields is athletic in the way that Bill Walker and Joe Alexander are athletic: he has good vert on his jumper but that's about it. In the NBA that isn't all that useful. Amar'e and Carmelo for example are not particularly high flyers, but because they are quick, powerful, explosive, and coordinated they play like supreme athletes.

I don't want to crap on Landry too much because he IS a good "little things" player which is something we need considering many of our guys are the opposite of little things players (see: Amar'e Stoudemire), and at one point this season he did seem to have a pretty reliable jumper (but doesn't everyone on the Knicks seem to have a pretty reliable jumper?). But I do think Iman's upside is considerably higher than Landry's because he has a real shooting guard build with the speed to match it and he looks like he has point guard level handle. If his jumper is actually NBA-level and he is smart enough to play within our offense he could be very good for us.

FIELDS is a good run/jump athlete, can play over the rim, finish strong on the break, go baseline for dunks, but he doesn't have that skilled athleticism.. you know what i mean if that makes sense..lol.. he can't change direction off the dribble and explode to the rim.. like wade does. He isn't going to leap off two feet and go over you for a dunk like amare... He is different.... very good athelte nonetheless, but different..

Shump is a different kind of athlete, probably has more skill and balance and is able to put that together and use his athleticism in a much different way.

[stuporman]

Wait... when did Fields lose his athleticism? The dude is very athletic! He might not be as athletic as Shump, but that's only because Shump is insanely athletic, not because Fields isn't.

[NYman15]

I'm not gonna get in the Fields vs. Iman debate. I'm just glad the Knicks have both of these guys.

Iman, though, seems to be playing very well in the Las Vegas league which is very encouraging. I love the efficient shooting and 3/4 on 3 pointers. I'm really excited about this kid.

[knicksosmoove]

FIELDS is a good run/jump athlete, can play over the rim, finish strong on the break, go baseline for dunks, but he doesn't have that skilled athleticism.. you know what i mean if that makes sense..lol.. he can't change direction off the dribble and explode to the rim.. like wade does. He isn't going to leap off two feet and go over you for a dunk like amare... He is different.... very good athelte nonetheless, but different..

Shump is a different kind of athlete, probably has more skill and balance and is able to put that together and use his athleticism in a much different way.

yeah that's a good way of putting it. He'd be great in track and field, but in basketball where coordination and first steps are more important, he doesn't have the ideal type of athleticism. Obviously his hops have some use though, he's a good finisher on breaks and can dunk well.

[j4remi]

yeah, Fields is athletic in the way that Bill Walker and Joe Alexander are athletic: he has good vert on his jumper but that's about it. In the NBA that isn't all that useful. Amar'e and Carmelo for example are not particularly high flyers, but because they are quick, powerful, explosive, and coordinated they play like supreme athletes.

I don't want to crap on Landry too much because he IS a good "little things" player which is something we need considering many of our guys are the opposite of little things players (see: Amar'e Stoudemire), and at one point this season he did seem to have a pretty reliable jumper (but doesn't everyone on the Knicks seem to have a pretty reliable jumper?). But I do think Iman's upside is considerably higher than Landry's because he has a real shooting guard build with the speed to match it and he looks like he has point guard level handle. If his jumper is actually NBA-level and he is smart enough to play within our offense he could be very good for us.

FIELDS is a good run/jump athlete, can play over the rim, finish strong on the break, go baseline for dunks, but he doesn't have that skilled athleticism.. you know what i mean if that makes sense..lol.. he can't change direction off the dribble and explode to the rim.. like wade does. He isn't going to leap off two feet and go over you for a dunk like amare... He is different.... very good athelte nonetheless, but different..

Shump is a different kind of athlete, probably has more skill and balance and is able to put that together and use his athleticism in a much different way.

I think Explosiveness is the key here. Certain players can run fast at top speed, but can't hit that stride in two or three steps, thus they appear slower. Some athletes can explode up and over the rim but need a LOT of space to run, two foot gather and explode up. Similar things can be said of changing directions. I don't think it's Shumpert's skill (maybe on handle but not elsewhere imo) but Shumpert can explode quickly and that's the type of athlete that is scary on the nba level. That's why I always pay closer attention to the shuttle runs numbers than anything else at the combine. It's about changing directions, stopping and going, AND speed.

[2010]

So is the general consensus that without even seeing Shumpert play a single game, that he will unseat Fields at starting shooting guard?

[knicksosmoove]

So is the general consensus that without even seeing Shumpert play a single game, that he will unseat Fields at starting shooting guard?

no, just that he probably has more upside.

[Falstaffxx]

Whoops, I just meant to say vert, not vert on his jumper. You are right, he has a set shot, no jumper. He does seem to jump pretty high though; his head gets up to the rim.

Fields had a 39 inch vertical at the combine (but I guess you're right about him being more of a set-shot guy). He does use that vertical pretty awesomely on put-back dunks though.

Yes, that is what I was talking about. If we're looking at only pure vert, 39 inches is very impressive for someone of Landry's height (Iman's vert is 42 inches which is scary good for a 6'4 and some change guy) but the other aspects of his athleticism are not elite.

I'm nitpicking, but I believe Shumpert at the combine measured at whatever no-shoes height calculates to an "NBA 6-6" - meaning, by whatever measurement guys use to determine that they are, say, a 7-footer, Shumpert would count as a 6-6 guy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[knicksosmoove]

I believe it said a little over 6'4, maybe 6'4.5 without shoes. 6'5.5 in shoes, so an NBA 6'6.

He looks tall, maybe not as tall as Kobe, but he has good size for a two.

[knicksosmoove]

I think Explosiveness is the key here. Certain players can run fast at top speed, but can't hit that stride in two or three steps, thus they appear slower. Some athletes can explode up and over the rim but need a LOT of space to run, two foot gather and explode up. Similar things can be said of changing directions. I don't think it's Shumpert's skill (maybe on handle but not elsewhere imo) but Shumpert can explode quickly and that's the type of athlete that is scary on the nba level. That's why I always pay closer attention to the shuttle runs numbers than anything else at the combine. It's about changing directions, stopping and going, AND speed.

Yes, and Amar'e happens to be the textbook example of this. He doesn't get up very high at all; in fact, he didn't get up that high before the surgery either. He's always been an elite dunker and finisher though because he doesn't need to load up at all to get off the ground. It's just, boom, he's up. He has a nasty first step too, I've heard people call it the best ever for a big man and they might be right.

They say in the combine release report that it is impossible to sum up athleticism with the numbers they use because it's hard to tally things like reaction time, fluidity, and change of direction.

[Iman Shumpert]

I think Explosiveness is the key here. Certain players can run fast at top speed, but can't hit that stride in two or three steps, thus they appear slower. Some athletes can explode up and over the rim but need a LOT of space to run, two foot gather and explode up. Similar things can be said of changing directions. I don't think it's Shumpert's skill (maybe on handle but not elsewhere imo) but Shumpert can explode quickly and that's the type of athlete that is scary on the nba level. That's why I always pay closer attention to the shuttle runs numbers than anything else at the combine. It's about changing directions, stopping and going, AND speed.

Exactly. And this is why I shake my head when people say Kobe was a freak athlete. He had a slow two-foot gather as opposed to innate 1, 2, 3 step explosiveness. That's more of a practiced type of athleticism than a natural one like a Vince/T-Mac/LeBron where they can just explode at will.

[Johnny Hoops]

Looking at Iman's measurements on draft-express.

6'4.25" No shoes
36.5 No-Step Vert
42.0 Max Vert
Bench 18
Agility 11.1
Sprint 3.18

Landry didn't have the other stuff but shows him at 6'6.5" No Shoes.