Becoming An Elite Team

[21shumpshumpst]

Where is this coming from?

Melo last year averaged 18.6 shots a game. He has averaged only less than that 3 years in his career including his 1st 2 years.

So he did defer last season. Now in the last month of the season IT WAS THE GAME PLAN due to injuries (no Lin/Amare) for him to be the focus of the team. It was out of necessity not out of him pouting. So that number shot up to 22.8.

That was for the last 12games of the season in april. The result was an 8-4 stretch. Two of those losses came to the Bulls and Miami.

Again I don't see this whole he won't defer argument is coming from. He was asked to defer in March his shot fell to 16.2 attempts in a 17 game stretch.

He did what was asked of him offensively all year long. Where is this whole "oh he didn't trust Lin so he pouted" thing coming from?

He has never had a great pg other than Billups. Why would all of a sudden only on the Knicks would it be a problem?

When Melo first got healthy and joined Lin, D'Antoni wanted him to stand in the corner and wait for kick-outs. Instead of doing this, Melo tended to drift in and screw up the spacing. The fact that this was going on is supported by the clash that occurred between D'Antoni and Melo. I think it's fair to say that if D'Antoni wanted to trade Melo for Deron, then there was absolutely some disobedience on Melo's part.

I'm not trying to attack Melo. I actually think he was justified in clashing with D'Antoni, cause a Lin-centric offense would have caused us to miss the playoffs, and Melo would have been unfairly blamed.

I don't think this was about Lin so much as it was about Pringles which I hated. I think Melo didn't think the team could win with him.

Even if the offense was heavily reliant on Lin this year had he stayed I don't think this would have been a problem.

Now also you got to take into account this was the first time he was asked to do this in his career. So there should be an adjustment period.

Kind of like Amare this year. I hope people give him the benefit of the doubt the first month or two when it comes to his post up game. It is something completely new and it will take time to get in a groove for it.

[blumatic]

Melo will not be jealous of an effective pick n roll game between STAT and Felton.

If we go back to Lin I think Melo wanted Lin the basketball player back here. I do think Melo was jealous of the adoration that Lin got but I dont think he hated Lin for it. I think Melo is thrilled that Felton is here and Lin is gone because Felton and Lin and comparable point guards right now and Melo gets his spotlight. We all seen this with the Kobe and Shaq thing.

But back to becoming an elite team. It starts with the coaches principles. When Doc Rivers was think about taking year off and coming back to the NBA I was hoping we could snatch him up. He is a leader of men and you get the sense players want to play for the guy. I get the same feeling with Woodson and he a straight shooter with the players. He called out Melo's conditioning and STAT's lack of post game. He has been checking in through out the summer on our players. Even Lin and Landry before they left. Woodson is the key guy.

[knicksnyk]

Melo will not be jealous of an effective pick n roll game between STAT and Felton.

If we go back to Lin I think Melo wanted Lin the basketball player back here. I do think Melo was jealous of the adoration that Lin got but I dont think he hated Lin for it. I think Melo is thrilled that Felton is here and Lin is gone because Felton and Lin and comparable point guards right now and Melo gets his spotlight. We all seen this with the Kobe and Shaq thing.

But back to becoming an elite team. It starts with the coaches principles. When Doc Rivers was think about taking year off and coming back to the NBA I was hoping we could snatch him up. He is a leader of men and you get the sense players want to play for the guy. I get the same feeling with Woodson and he a straight shooter with the players. He called out Melo's conditioning and STAT's lack of post game. He has been checking in through out the summer on our players. Even Lin and Landry before they left. Woodson is the key guy.

Felton & Lin aren't comparable pg's at all. Lin is better than felton. but felton myb the better fit for the knicks (although i disagree). Lin needs the ball in his hands he was at his best last year when the ball was in his hands and at his worst when it wasn't the eye test and stats back this up. there probably wasnt enough ball to share with melo amare & lin. felton is felton, he doesn't take away from melo's shine. felton also is a give the ball to melo and amare style of pg. lin is a get every body involved kind of pg.

on woodson, i dont think woodson is the coach u want if ure trying to b a elite team. the number one thing woody has going for him is that players on the team respect him and want to play for him. woodson isnt as good of a x's and o's coach as doc is. my guess is that woody is going to hold us back this season.

[blumatic]

Melo will not be jealous of an effective pick n roll game between STAT and Felton.

If we go back to Lin I think Melo wanted Lin the basketball player back here. I do think Melo was jealous of the adoration that Lin got but I dont think he hated Lin for it. I think Melo is thrilled that Felton is here and Lin is gone because Felton and Lin and comparable point guards right now and Melo gets his spotlight. We all seen this with the Kobe and Shaq thing.

But back to becoming an elite team. It starts with the coaches principles. When Doc Rivers was think about taking year off and coming back to the NBA I was hoping we could snatch him up. He is a leader of men and you get the sense players want to play for the guy. I get the same feeling with Woodson and he a straight shooter with the players. He called out Melo's conditioning and STAT's lack of post game. He has been checking in through out the summer on our players. Even Lin and Landry before they left. Woodson is the key guy.

Felton & Lin aren't comparable pg's at all. Lin is better than felton. but felton myb the better fit for the knicks (although i disagree). Lin needs the ball in his hands he was at his best last year when the ball was in his hands and at his worst when it wasn't the eye test and stats back this up. there probably wasnt enough ball to share with melo amare & lin. felton is felton, he doesn't take away from melo's shine. felton also is a give the ball to melo and amare style of pg. lin is a get every body involved kind of pg.

on woodson, i dont think woodson is the coach u want if ure trying to b a elite team. the number one thing woody has going for him is that players on the team respect him and want to play for him. woodson isnt as good of a x's and o's coach as doc is. my guess is that woody is going to hold us back this season.

Felton has better handles, is quicker and faster than Lin.

Lin is the better scorer of the two. When Felton was here he did a good jon of getting everyone involved as well. Those 9 assists he averaged were not exclusively to Amare.

Those question you have about Woody. Doc had those same questions. Doc gets Garnett and Doc is an elite coach. Itf funny because a year before Garnett went to Boston the Celtics endure a 18 losing streak under Doc Rivers. Celtics fans including Bill Simmons wanted Doc fired. Danny Ainge liked Doc and decided to stick with him. Now Doc is elite. Woody will not hold us back. If its someone that holds us back it will be another team.

[barborous]

Felton definitely has better handles (Lin's handles are pretty bad for a starting PG, and Felton's smooth handles are always what I've liked most about his game) but I don't know where you get the idea that he's quicker or faster; neither is anywhere close to true. But either way, the PG position definitely won't be the focal point of our offense next year, so as long as we have someone competent who can be aggressive when needed, we'll be fine.

I am very high on Woodson right now. I think he's going to go down as a great coach eventually, if the pieces fall together. Can't wait for the season to start.

[Never Wrong]

Felton definitely has better handles (Lin's handles are pretty bad for a starting PG, and Felton's smooth handles are always what I've liked most about his game) but I don't know where you get the idea that he's quicker or faster; neither is anywhere close to true. But either way, the PG position definitely won't be the focal point of our offense next year, so as long as we have someone competent who can be aggressive when needed, we'll be fine.

I am very high on Woodson right now. I think he's going to go down as a great coach eventually, if the pieces fall together. Can't wait for the season to start.

Felton's not a good ballhandler. He IS a better ballhandler than Lin, but that's because Lin is a godawful ballhandler for a PG.

[knicksnyk]

There seem to be a lot of myths surrounding feltons previous tenure as a knick. and please dont say he was all most an all star, its a popularity contest it means nothing.

[CANiLIVE]

There seem to be a lot of myths surrounding feltons previous tenure as a knick. and please dont say he was all most an all star, its a popularity contest it means nothing.

He wasn't going to start in the all star game the fans get that responsibility, the coach's around the NBA get the vote to choose who's on the bench and I doubt they base the vote off popularity.

[Thugger HBC]

Felton's not a good ballhandler. He IS a better ballhandler than Lin, but that's because Lin is a godawful ballhandler for a PG.

What is your criteria for a good ball handler?

For me..... tempo control, ability to change gears, skilled with both hands, a good assists to t/o ratio.

Felton is good ball handler, definitely has the fundamentals down.

i recalled this video from a few years ago....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Er-5aa_MDY[/youtube]

[SonOfMars]

Felton is a good ball handler, but i guess everyones definition of that term can be different


oh, and im not one to bash Ray, but i find it ironic that he was once a spokesperson for NBA Fit

[barborous]

He's not super flashy, but he's very solid and is good at misdirection. Kind of a much less talented version of DWill.

[The Lamma]

rhodey I can going to keep it straight with you, because I know you know I am not trying bash anyone but just being honest.. here is how I see things buddy..

Kidd is / was a HOF player.. he no longer has those HOF skills, but he can still play and provide leadership.. I trust him with the ball..

chandler is chandler, he will be great..

camby may still have gas in the tank

prigs, I know nothing about this guy and honestly don't expect much.. being realistic

Brewer, I called him a scrub before he got here and I must keep it real.. the guy is a scrub.. LOL.. but he can defend... nothing special tho..

Felton and amare I think can pick up where they left off, the problem is, for them to be effective you have to run the pick and roll as a large part of the offense and it helps if you have some shooters.. other than novak, we really don't.. it just seems like we are trying to mesh two players in amare and melo that need two seperate offenses to be effective... so far I rather go with what I know and I know felton and amare can play well together...

everything else seems to be a question mark..

The bolded is why I keep harping on bringing in Michael Redd. The guy can shoot the ball. Another thing he can provide us is he can be on the floor WITH Amare and Melo, whereas with Novak, one of the two is out. Also I just have this gut feeling that he would play well here.

Let me put it another way, who would be more likely to help the team this year, Michael Redd or Chris Smith?

[21shumpshumpst]

After rewatching the Knicks vs Bulls game from last year I am super hopeful for this team.

Last year our big achilles heel were a couple of things that were highlighted in this game.
1) No backup C - We are up 19 (29-10) with 2 minutes plus to go in the 1st quarter and Tyson gets injured. He sits down (so does Melo) and the Bulls instantly go inside and start pounding us on the offensive glass. They go on a run and cut it to 10.

This year we have Camby to man the paint when Chandler is out. So the drop off won't be nearly as steep on the defensive end.

2) No realible pgs - Baron could barely run. Yet he was our best pg after Lin went down. He sits and TD has to run the offense. What a disaster. The guy dribbles without a purpose and passes to the opposing team.

This year we have Kidd and to a lesser extent Prigs to set up the 2nd unit. So no more looking like a HS team when our starting pg sits down. We are going to be able to run sets for ALL 48 minutes. Which is not something we could say last year.

I think the upgrades in our backups are huge. I would love a backup PF (Kmart, Amundson) and another shooter. But I think we have done really well this offseason. We are at the cusp I feel. Go Knicks.

[blumatic]

For me I hope the Knicks are not concerning themselves about "BEING" and elite or championship team but "DOING" the things the results in elite team stature and championship contention.

What will I be looking for is better defense, better passing by Melo and STAT. Point guard play is huge because I dont want Melo feeling he has to do more than he should.

We gotta get better. This is a defining moment for this franchise, Dolan as an owner, Grunny as a GM, Woody as a coach, Melo and Amare as franchise players, Felton for his career. Aside from Woody, everyone has underachieved because great expectation are match by their great talent level. Its time to meet the expectations.

I hope the new unis help. The current unis represent the post Ewing era. Its started with the Allan Houston and Sprewell era which was a complete failure. Only 3 playoff wins in these unis.

Im ready for these guys to be the real deal.

[kosmovitelli]

Becoming An Elite Team

As constructed, I don't think this team will ever be elite. Especially without a bonafide distributor at the point.
That said, with a couple of moves (a PG for example) if the right opportunity comes along and a bit of luck, this team can go all the way to the ECF and maybe the Finals once (like Denver made it to the West Finals after acquiring Billups or Minny after they traded for Cassel and Spree).

[Denny Crane]

in the real world the end is in the beginning. there's no sense in extrapolating an elite scenario from the "on paper" pipe dreams of the present. it's a fantasy. the underlying question is whether the present situation had a strong beginning. if yes then the end will be strong. if not then not, and it would take a miracle for that to change. it's that simple.

[21shumpshumpst]

in the real world the end is in the beginning. there's no sense in extrapolating an elite scenario from the "on paper" pipe dreams of the present. it's a fantasy. the underlying question is whether the present situation had a strong beginning. if yes then the end will be strong. if not then not, and it would take a miracle for that to change. it's that simple.

Now translate that into english so we can respond.

[kamelion4291]

How many players on the Knicks are in the game for both offense and defense? It's pretty hard to have an elite team when that number is basically zero.

[Thugger HBC]

How many players on the Knicks are in the game for both offense and defense? It's pretty hard to have an elite team when that number is basically zero.

Don't tell the Thunder that then.

[NoLayupRule]

really?

man, such amazing negativity.