Knicks have talked trade with CLE about Waiters

Slamm Goodbody · Post #41 » by **Slamm Goodbody** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:24 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Slamm Goodbody wrote:And I think that Waiters has a higher ceiling as a scorer and proved in college that he can play defense in a zone scheme. He's not the lockdown defender that Shump is, but his offensive upside is higher and he can be the presence spacing the floor we need around Melo. If Shump is as good as gone, there are worse targets to trade for.

Why would a worse three point shooter than Iman spread the floor better than Iman?

In their rookie seasons, Shumpert shot 30.6% from the 3 and Waiters shot 31%.
In the current season, Shumpert is shooting 34.3% from the 3 and Waiters is shooting 38.9%.

What am I missing here

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #42 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:25 pm

Slamm Goodbody wrote:
Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Slamm Goodbody wrote:And I think that Waiters has a higher ceiling as a scorer and proved in college that he can play defense in a zone scheme. He's not the lockdown defender that Shump is, but his offensive upside is higher and he can be the presence spacing the floor we need around Melo. If Shump is as good as gone, there are worse targets to trade for.

Why would a worse three point shooter than Iman spread the floor better than Iman?

In their rookie seasons, Shumpert shot 30.6% from the 3 and Waiters shot 31%.
In the current season, Shumpert is shooting 34.3% from the 3 and Waiters is shooting 38.9%.

What am I missing here

Unclear to me why you cherry picked from Shumpert's first year and then the current small sample size as opposed to simply looking to both last year and the current season. I see Waiters as a high volume scorer that plays little to no defense. I don't see how he belongs on this team.

TheGarden · Post #43 » by **TheGarden** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:32 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Slamm Goodbody wrote:
Knicks_Fan2 wrote:Why would a worse three point shooter than Iman spread the floor better than Iman?

In their rookie seasons, Shumpert shot 30.6% from the 3 and Waiters shot 31%.
In the current season, Shumpert is shooting 34.3% from the 3 and Waiters is shooting 38.9%.

What am I missing here

Unclear to me why you cherry picked from Shumpert's first year and then the current small sample size as opposed to simply looking to both last year and the current season. I see Waiters as a high volume scorer that plays little to no defense. I don't see how he belongs on this team.

we're a team of high volume scorers that play little to no defense

Waiters is a hand and glove fit

Slamm Goodbody · Post #44 » by **Slamm Goodbody** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:32 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Slamm Goodbody wrote:
Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Why would a worse three point shooter than Iman spread the floor better than Iman?

In their rookie seasons, Shumpert shot 30.6% from the 3 and Waiters shot 31%.
In the current season, Shumpert is shooting 34.3% from the 3 and Waiters is shooting 38.9%.

What am I missing here

Unclear to me why you cherry picked from Shumpert's first year and then the current small sample size as opposed to simply looking to both last year and the current season. I see Waiters as a high volume scorer that plays little to no defense. I don't see how he belongs on this team.

Shumpert is one year more seasoned and older. My intention was to highlight rookie season against rookie season and point out each has a small sample size to make the comparison. Waiters was a better shooter in college. Both continue to be players in development.

You're entitled to your opinion on who the better fit is - personally I love Shump and I'd rather dump some combo of JR and someone else, but clearly that package won't be enough to get the deal done. I think we need to keep building our defensive unit but if Dolan is driving Shumpert to the airport already there are certainly worse targets to pickup than Waiters.

NOOB77 · Post #45 » by **NOOB77** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:33 pm

johnnywishbone wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:Melo to Clippers
Griffin + Barnes + Aldrich to Cavaliers
Waiters + Thompson + Zeller + Varejao + Cavs top 3 protected pick + Kings top 10 protected pick to Knicks

Everything else for our pick back from Denver

TANK FOR WIGGINS

Clippers are not trading Griffin. Put your trade on their board and prove me wrong.

I hate this response. Who the **** cares what people think on realgm message board. They are not GMs in the NBA. The fans on this board would have voted against the Melo trade? Did we still make the trade? YES Boston fans would have voted against the PP and Garnett trade? Did they still make the trade? YES GM's don't consult the fan base on trades.

There GM will consult Rivers and CP3 if they want Melo and the Knicks will take back Griffin then the deal would get done tonight.

johnnywishbone · Post #46 » by **johnnywishbone** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:37 pm

NYKfan77 wrote:
johnnywishbone wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:Melo to Clippers
Griffin + Barnes + Aldrich to Cavaliers
Waiters + Thompson + Zeller + Varejao + Cavs top 3 protected pick + Kings top 10 protected pick to Knicks

Everything else for our pick back from Denver

TANK FOR WIGGINS

Clippers are not trading Griffin. Put your trade on their board and prove me wrong.

I hate this response. Who the **** cares what people think on realgm message board. They are not GMs in the NBA. The fans on this board would have voted against the Melo trade? Did we still make the trade? YES Boston fans would have voted against the PP and Garnett trade? Did they still make the trade? YES GM's don't consult the fan base on trades.

There GM will consult Rivers and CP3 if they want Melo and the Knicks will take back Griffin then the deal would get done tonight.

Right. They are going to trade the face of the franchise that took them from being the joke of the NBA to relevant.

They care what their fans think because their fans buy tickets - duh! And btw... people around here overwhelmingly wanted Melo and everybody in Boston understands that move. Look at the Nets. Do you think Boston's fans are clamoring to be them?

NOOB77 · Post #47 » by **NOOB77** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:40 pm

johnnywishbone wrote:
NYKfan77 wrote:
johnnywishbone wrote:
Clippers are not trading Griffin. Put your trade on their board and prove me wrong.

I hate this response. Who the **** cares what people think on realgm message board. They are not GMs in the NBA. The fans on this board would have voted against the Melo trade? Did we still make the trade? YES Boston fans would have voted against the PP and Garnett trade? Did they still make the trade? YES GM's don't consult the fan base on trades.

There GM will consult Rivers and CP3 if they want Melo and the Knicks will take back Griffin then the deal would get done tonight.

Right. They are going to trade the face of the franchise that took them from being the joke of the NBA to relevant.

They care what their fans think because their fans buy tickets - duh!

Fans buy tickets when the teams win. CP3 is the face of the franchise now not Griffin. If CP3 and Rivers think Melo gives them a better change to win than Griffin does then they will make the offer to the Knicks bottom line.

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #48 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:41 pm

Is this the blake/melo trade thread?

johnnywishbone · Post #49 » by **johnnywishbone** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:44 pm

NYKfan77 wrote:
Fans buy tickets when the teams win. CP3 is the face of the franchise now not Griffin. If CP3 and Rivers think Melo gives them a better change to win than Griffin does then they will make the offer to the Knicks bottom line.

Then go test the temperature and ask a bunch of people who follow the Clippers everyday like we follow the Knicks.

See what they think. My guess is you have as good a chance as trading Melo for Griffin as you do of trading him for Dwayne Wade.

Fat Kat · Post #50 » by **Fat Kat** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:45 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:Is this the blake/melo trade thread?

It's primarily a handful of knuckleheads pushing that crap. Ignore them.

Rasho Brezec · Post #51 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:46 pm

johnnywishbone wrote:
NYKfan77 wrote:
Fans buy tickets when the teams win. CP3 is the face of the franchise now not Griffin. If CP3 and Rivers think Melo gives them a better change to win than Griffin does then they will make the offer to the Knicks bottom line.

Then go test the temperature and ask a bunch of people who follow the Clippers everyday like we follow the Knicks.

See what they think. My guess is you have as good a chance as trading Melo for Griffin as you do of trading him for Dwayne Wade.

The only thing that matters is what Chris Paul thinks. He's the one they've invested the most in.

AmazingJason · Post #52 » by **AmazingJason** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:46 pm

NY plays iso-ball

Cleveland plays buddy-ball :lol:

Mr_Perfect · Post #53 » by **Mr_Perfect** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:46 pm

Do they want JR Smith? Not that Waiters is any better but at this point I would like to break all ties to the Smith family.

AmazingJason · Post #54 » by **AmazingJason** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:47 pm

AmazingJason wrote:NY plays iso-ball

Cleveland plays buddy-ball

Well, I guess we played buddy-ball not too long ago too:

Lin = Irving
Fields = Thompson

Melo = Waiters

johnnywishbone · Post #55 » by **johnnywishbone** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:48 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
johnnywishbone wrote:
NYKfan77 wrote:
Fans buy tickets when the teams win. CP3 is the face of the franchise now not Griffin. If CP3 and Rivers think Melo gives them a better change to win than Griffin does then they will make the offer to the Knicks bottom line.

Then go test the temperature and ask a bunch of people who follow the Clippers everyday like we follow the Knicks.

See what they think. My guess is you have as good a chance as trading Melo for Griffin as you do of trading him for Dwayne Wade.

The only thing that matters is what Chris Paul thinks. He's the one they've invested the most in.

He is under contract so he lost a leverage. I doubt he would want to trade Griffin and 2 picks for Melo at this point.

Like I said, prove me wrong.

Knicks_Fan2 · Post #56 » by **Knicks_Fan2** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:50 pm

Mr_Perfect wrote:Do they want JR Smith? Not that Waiters is any better but at this point I would like to break all ties to the Smith family.

Per Broussard, they just want Shumpert.

johnnywishbone · Post #57 » by **johnnywishbone** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:51 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
Mr_Perfect wrote:Do they want JR Smith? Not that Waiters is any better but at this point I would like to break all ties to the Smith family.

Per Broussard, they just want Shumpert.

If we can somehow expand the trade to include Thompson then it would get interesting for me. Until then... good luck with getting Lebron Mr. Gilbert.

Rasho Brezec · Post #58 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:52 pm

They can have Shumpert if they give us their top 3 protected pick.

AmazingJason · Post #59 » by **AmazingJason** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:52 pm

Mr_Perfect wrote:Do they want JR Smith? Not that Waiters is any better but at this point I would like to break all ties to the Smith family.

If you were an opposing team would you want JR?

It'd be pretty hilarious if JR asked his bro to be included in all deals if he were being shopped.

Buttah304 · Post #60 » by **Buttah304** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:53 pm

I watched a ton of Waiters at Cuse and at one point he was honestly the best part of their defense. The guy caused havoc on that end (but especially excelled in Zone D) but seeing as how we switch so much it would most likely hold him back in that area.

His biggest problem since coming into the league is that he honestly doesn't know his role on a team where another guard in Irving is expected to shoot 20 times a night. Waiters is not the type of guy you put around Irving. Kyrie needs a Klay Thompson type shooter to play off the ball. That is why he's being shopped.

The intriguing part would be to see how he looks on a team where he is given the keys from a Guard perspective. He is a good passer but doesn't have true PG skills and that's my issue. If we are trading Shump, a natural PG should be our only target.

However, Waiters is still intriguing. He's shooting nearly 39% from 3 this year and has a damn quick release. Watching him push the ball up the court off a rebound and attack would be a significant improvement over Shump. But again, a true floor general just seems like our top priority. And I don't know if Waiters can be groomed as a point. To be completely honest he has all the tools to be a Billups type. Strong, not blazingly fast, nice range, can play D, but isn't a true point out of the gate.