Team's potential vs the East

[HarthorneWingo]

1. melo is a year older and just came off an off shooting season
2. rose is done, he'll never go back to his all star ways
3. celtics are way better than the knicks as are the pacers, raptors, hornets, and a few others i can't name

bNo is in mid season form.

[Sark]

greenie... people really act like phil has been president for the whole post-ewing era. no one wants to let that boy cook.

we razed the foundation LAST offseason. and for what that suicide squad was, it was .500 for a minute before the bottom fell out.

we didn't have a pick, but have come into this season with clean books. we still have pretty clean books going into next offseason... and we have NBA starters. a star for now. a star for the future. dog mentality on deck. all our picks (and some extras). we're on our way.

but some will always find a way to complain because we didn't win the championship. but few people have rational thoughts on how to get there.

i can understand the appeal of tank squad, but i have yet to see a situation where perpetual losing begets winning. the spurs took one season off and got luckier than life. bottom feeders end up high lottery every year and make no traction, just end up in a vicious cycle of losing and showing a losing culture to young talent.

this season looks like a real shot to make an upward trajectory.

Oklahoma.

Minnesota is about to turn that corner too.

That's one team.

Do you know how long Minnesota has been rebuilding? Almost 10 years. They have been the fuqing pits since they traded Garnett to the Celtics in 2008. I'm not here for that at all.

You guys against the tank constantly build a straw man. No one is advocating for a perpetual tank. The idea is to tank for 1 season, because the upcoming draft is so goddamn good, and we have virtually 0 chance to win it all.

A 1 time tank would be far more beneficial for the organization in the long run than another first round loss on Melo's resume.

[Sark]

And I don't think KP missing the playoffs for his first 2 years will turn him into Bane. Lebron missed the playoffs his first few years and is doing fine. Durant missed his first 2 years too. Check this too: Steph Curry missed an eye popping first 3 years. Totally killed every chance for him to ever become something special.


You know who made the playoffs early in their career all the time? Carmelo Anthony. How many titles did he turn that into?

[dakomish23]

And I don't think KP missing the playoffs for his first 2 years will turn him into Bane. Lebron missed the playoffs his first few years and is doing fine. Durant missed his first 2 years too. Check this too: Steph Curry missed an eye popping first 3 years. Totally killed every chance for him to ever become something special.


You know who made the playoffs early in their career all the time? Carmelo Anthony. How many titles did he turn that into?

There's no formula to this other than have a bunch of top tier talent, get smart coaching and pray for good health and some luck.

I was on board with a lottery pick this year. ****, it can still happen.

[dakomish23]

OKC is the only team outside of SAS that I could think of that really thrived by purposely building through the draft for their core. They didn't get a title.

Ask CHA how having 7 top 5 picks in 10 years worked out for them. Or SAC with all their top 10 picks.

There's no formula that's guaranteed to get you a ring. We're just going to have to hope that we continually make smart moves using all 3 conduits - draft FA trade - to build a team that could finally end this ring less drought. 43 years and counting.

[Greenie]

Oklahoma.

Minnesota is about to turn that corner too.

That's one team.

Do you know how long Minnesota has been rebuilding? Almost 10 years. They have been the fuqing pits since they traded Garnett to the Celtics in 2008. I'm not here for that at all.

You guys against the tank constantly build a straw man. No one is advocating for a perpetual tank. The idea is to tank for 1 season, because the upcoming draft is so goddamn good, and we have virtually 0 chance to win it all.

A 1 time tank would be far more beneficial for the organization in the long run than another first round loss on Melo's resume.

And if you draft Greg Oden or Anthony Bennett then what?

You started naming good teams that built exclusively through the draft. OKC is one. ONE! Minnesota has taken damn near a decade.

[Sark]

That's one team.

Do you know how long Minnesota has been rebuilding? Almost 10 years. They have been the fuqing pits since they traded Garnett to the Celtics in 2008. I'm not here for that at all.

You guys against the tank constantly build a straw man. No one is advocating for a perpetual tank. The idea is to tank for 1 season, because the upcoming draft is so goddamn good, and we have virtually 0 chance to win it all.

A 1 time tank would be far more beneficial for the organization in the long run than another first round loss on Melo's resume.

And if you draft Greg Oden or Anthony Bennett then what?

You started naming good teams that built exclusively through the draft. OKC is one. ONE! Minnesota has taken damn near a decade.

Umm Cleveland built through the draft. Kyrie and TT were both drafted by the Cavs, and they used the Wiggins pick to get Love. If they don't get all those picks, there is no way Lebron goes back, who he himself was drafted by Cleveland.

The Bennett and Oden bust picks are pretty rare. #1 picks usually become All Stars and Hall of Famers. Basketball is by far the easiest sport to predict. Sports like baseball and football have much more bust picks. Ken Griffey Jr is the only #1 pick to make the HoF for example.

[blueNorange]

I was on board with a lottery pick this year. ****, it can still happen.

it's going to be middle of the pact. they'll get a draft pick between 14-16, draft a nobody, everyone will claim that nobody is the steal of the draft and the once again people will flip out over espn predictions for having the knicks not being the best team in the nba even though they just finished a .500 season with another melo first round bounce.

[blueNorange]

but i have yet to see a situation where perpetual losing begets winning.

lmaoooooooo

knicks have been perpetual losing for over 15 years now except they've never kept their picks because they would trade it for losers like marbury, curry, and melo and then constantly trade draft picks to appease losers like marbury, curry, and melo.

[Sark]

OKC is the only team outside of SAS that I could think of that really thrived by purposely building through the draft for their core. They didn't get a title.

Ask CHA how having 7 top 5 picks in 10 years worked out for them. Or SAC with all their top 10 picks.

There's no formula that's guaranteed to get you a ring. We're just going to have to hope that we continually make smart moves using all 3 conduits - draft FA trade - to build a team that could finally end this ring less drought. 43 years and counting.

There is a formula actually. It's: get more good players than the other team + good coaching = win.

Now there's 3 ways to get good players: draft, trade, or free agency. Trading is hard because you have to give up something to get something, and teams are very reluctant to trade good players except for contract years. Free agency is damn near impossible as well. The superstars like Lebron and Durant rarely leave, and if they do, then you only have 1 : 30 chance.

That leaves drafting as the best way to acquire talent. Think about all the greats. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Russell, etc. They all won with their original drafting team. Of the top 10, only Shaq and Lebron won their first ring with a team that didn't draft them.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

I'm an advocate for getting a top pick in the 2017 draft...a Markelle Fultz to go along with KP would have us set for the next decade. We're clearly not going in that direction tho so it's pointless to think about

[BKlutch]

The biggest factor will be KP, not Rose. If KP makes the quantum leap (Clyde voice), this team will be great. Because one young star surrounded by the vets the Knicks have has to = success if the guys stay healthy. Without Porzingis, no one is even jokingly calling the Knicks a super team. Actually, I think without Porzingis, Phil would have been trying to convince Melo to play elsewhere this year, when originally, we thought it would be the other way around. This kid has made everything possible.

So I'd say, the Knicks' potential rides on KP's potential in year 2. I think they're top 4.

C'mon, BP, how can you ask us to imagine Clyde's voice? Would you ask us to hear "Fastest 150 seconds in the NBA" in Clyde's voice? LOL

[Deeeez Knicks]

Tanking thru the draft over the course of a few was never really an option for Phil. 2 out of 3 first rounders were gone, and he was not going to wait 3 years, then start tanking.

We got 1 good tank in at least. I am thankful for that.

If these trades and signings work out, then we are in good shape.

[blueNorange]

I'm an advocate for getting a top pick in the 2017 draft...a Markelle Fultz to go along with KP would have us set for the next decade. We're clearly not going in that direction tho so it's pointless to think about

there's a higher chance of the knicks having a losing season than a winning season, i'm starting to think people don't know just how undependable noah and moreso rose are.

people also don't know that ennings, who's going to get a lot of playing time is an actual walking talking pile of hot garbage.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I'm an advocate for getting a top pick in the 2017 draft...a Markelle Fultz to go along with KP would have us set for the next decade. We're clearly not going in that direction tho so it's pointless to think about

there's a higher chance of the knicks having a losing season than a winning season, i'm starting to think people don't know just how undependable noah and moreso rose are.

people also don't know that ennings, who's going to get a lot of playing time is an actual walking talking pile of hot garbage.

The chance of getting a top 3 pick/superstar is not good either even if we went in that direction.

[Greenie]

Also, for all the praise you wish to give Minny who's in their full starting lineup? Who's the starting PF? Who's the second starting wing player? Are they moving on from Rubio for Dunn? ...and how will Dunn turn out?

They have plenty of holes as well.

[BKlutch]

I'm an advocate for getting a top pick in the 2017 draft...a Markelle Fultz to go along with KP would have us set for the next decade. We're clearly not going in that direction tho so it's pointless to think about

there's a higher chance of the knicks having a losing season than a winning season, i'm starting to think people don't know just how undependable noah and moreso rose are.

people also don't know that ennings, who's going to get a lot of playing time is an actual walking talking pile of hot garbage.

[King of Canada]

Also, for all the praise you wish to give Minny who's in their full starting lineup? Who's the starting PF? Who's the second starting wing player? Are they moving on from Rubio for Dunn? ...and how will Dunn turn out?

They have plenty of holes as well.

And will have more when one guy gets hurt and another wants out!

[dakomish23]

I was on board with a lottery pick this year. ****, it can still happen.

it's going to be middle of the pact. they'll get a draft pick between 14-16, draft a nobody, everyone will claim that nobody is the steal of the draft and the once again people will flip out over espn predictions for having the knicks not being the best team in the nba even though they just finished a .500 season with another melo first round bounce.

It's funny that you're taking jabs at overly optimistic fans when you are probably the most pessimistic person on this board. I bet it's somewhere in the middle.

[Greenie]

You guys against the tank constantly build a straw man. No one is advocating for a perpetual tank. The idea is to tank for 1 season, because the upcoming draft is so goddamn good, and we have virtually 0 chance to win it all.

A 1 time tank would be far more beneficial for the organization in the long run than another first round loss on Melo's resume.

And if you draft Greg Oden or Anthony Bennett then what?

You started naming good teams that built exclusively through the draft. OKC is one. ONE! Minnesota has taken damn near a decade.

Umm Cleveland built through the draft. Kyrie and TT were both drafted by the Cavs, and they used the Wiggins pick to get Love. If they don't get all those picks, there is no way Lebron goes back, who he himself was drafted by Cleveland.

The Bennett and Oden bust picks are pretty rare. #1 picks usually become All Stars and Hall of Famers. Basketball is by far the easiest sport to predict. Sports like baseball and football have much more bust picks. Ken Griffey Jr is the only #1 pick to make the HoF for example.

They are not rare. The league is littered with bust lotto picks. And I named extremes. We can also talk about players that were decent but never first pick worthy. Hell, look at last years draft. 2 out of the 3 dudes taken before KP look like they were supposed to go lower.