New York Knicks Summer League Notes

[MaseInYourFace]

Hey all!

Here are this year's notes from Orlando Summer League. Hopefully some things of interest in here1

1. They were really happy to bring back Ron Baker. Buzz was he wanted to play Summer League, but the Knicks shut that down quickly.

2. Team folks seem a bit split on Frank Ntilikina. Some think he was Phil's guy and with Phil gone, they aren't all 100% sold. But that is pretty common. They were hoping to have him play the last couple of games, but decided it wasn't worth it.

3. Marshall Plumlee had a rough week. He ended up getting cut and one person said "That was a waste of $100k".

4. Chasson Randle had a rough week as well. If the team lands another PG, Randle might be gone.

5. The team expected to have another PG signed by now. They had interest in several of the vets out there, but none were overly interested in playing placeholder for Ntlikina.

6. Don't expect to see Louis Labeyrie ever in anything beyond a SL uniform. The quote was "What a waste of a pick. He has all the potential in the world, but just doesn't get it at all."

7. They love Luke Kornet. While most see him as a just a stretch 4, they were impressed with his finishing around the rim and he showed better than expected athleticism.

8. Damyean Dotson has a ways to go and will log considerable time in the NBAGL this year.

9. Ognjen Jaramaz showed some nice skills. He'll likely develop overseas for the next couple of years.

10. Nigel Hayes may get a camp deal and then assigned to the NBAGL as an Affiliate Player (different from the new two-way contract). He needs to improve, but showed enough for that. Same with Jamel Artis and possibly Canyon Barry.

11. The sense is that nothing big can get done until they resolve the Melo situation. Even the Hardaway offer sheet was a surprise. The number one question every FA asked was "Is Melo staying?" and that makes it hard to land anyone.

Surprised with the comments on Labyrinth and Dotson. Thought Labyrinth showed significant strides. Also Dotson has an nba ready skill in his shooting.

[riter]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

[MaseInYourFace]

People do way overrate SL on here though. Got people comparing Dotson to Joe Johnson already lol.

[MaseInYourFace]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

Just because you don't like what was said or don't agree with it doesn't make it garbage. If anything this might be a reflection of the current mess knicks FO and support staff is in.

[riter]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

Just because you don't like what was said or don't agree with it doesn't make it garbage. If anything this might be a reflection of the current mess knicks FO and support staff is in.

ok dad.
a garbage post is a garbage post whether I agree with it or not.
and yes we are a f*cking mess. can I get 20 and1's.

[MaseInYourFace]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

Just because you don't like what was said or don't agree with it doesn't make it garbage. If anything this might be a reflection of the current mess knicks FO and support staff is in.

ok dad.
a garbage post is a garbage post whether I agree with it or not.

My son would have better sense.

He's (Smitty) sharing his access. Why is it a garbage post?

[riter]

Just because you don't like what was said or don't agree with it doesn't make it garbage. If anything this might be a reflection of the current mess knicks FO and support staff is in.

ok dad.
a garbage post is a garbage post whether I agree with it or not.

My son would have better sense.

He's (Smitty) sharing his access. Why is it a garbage post?

Your son would.......

forget it.
oh yeah, f*ck Boston and all those that root for them

[BKlutch]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

He's honestly reporting what he heard, as opposed to writing only his own opinions. There's a big difference.

If it turns out that some of his team sources are themselves wrong, it's still useful to know what they're thinking.

It's a valuable service he's providing and we shouldn't criticize the messenger just because we may not like the message.

[riter]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

He's honestly reporting what he heard, as opposed to writing only his own opinions. There's a big difference.

If it turns out that some of his team sources are themselves wrong, it's still useful to know what they're thinking.

It's a valuable service he's providing and we shouldn't criticize the messenger just because we may not like the message.

I hear worthless info all the time. It's kind of my job.

[BKlutch]

Wow. All those and1's for that garbage.

He's honestly reporting what he heard, as opposed to writing only his own opinions. There's a big difference.

If it turns out that some of his team sources are themselves wrong, it's still useful to know what they're thinking.

It's a valuable service he's providing and we shouldn't criticize the messenger just because we may not like the message.

I hear worthless info all the time. It's kind of my job.

Sorry to hear that. It must be a tough job.

[riter]

He's honestly reporting what he heard, as opposed to writing only his own opinions. There's a big difference.

If it turns out that some of his team sources are themselves wrong, it's still useful to know what they're thinking.

It's a valuable service he's providing and we shouldn't criticize the messenger just because we may not like the message.

I hear worthless info all the time. It's kind of my job.

Sorry to hear that. It must be a tough job.

it is. but atleast you've help me derail this thread from smitty's stupid post.
where's Mase and my and1's

[3toheadmelo]

#2. So seems like some in the organization share my sentiment. Which is why Phil should have been fired BEFORE the draft!

#4. GTFO no handle Randle

#6. He didn't seem like the type that "doesn't get it at all" to me

#7. Stretch 4? He is a 5 with 3pt range. Finishing around the rim? Athleticism?

#8. Dotson has a ways to go? G-League? Man, who is your source? They are either a hater or watched the games blindfolded!

preach!

[BadNewsBarnes]

As for #6, no team has ever won an NBA championship playing a walking toothpick. Ask Manute Bol.

My take on #3 is that Dolan thanked him for his service and gave him the extra $100K because....he's Jimmy.

#8...remember the caliber of play in the Summer League. Last year we were creaming over Randle and look how he was exposed.

[thebuzzardman]

:lol: guys, for the record Smitty's a sports writer who was at the summer league with access to coaches and managers. If you're feeling particularly bored you can probably figure out who he is.

and with Phil gone, they aren't all 100% sold.

Was that actually how somebody phrased it?

The Hardaway move seemed almost like a payback move. Obviously Phil didn't like him and somebody else in the org did. I hope they give Frank a fair shake. There's a chance he becomes a unique and special player. A PG version of Iggy or Tayshaun Prince who does a lot more than his box scores tell you.

Did you get a chance to talk to Clarance Gaines and if so whether it seemed like he was a part of the team going forward?

I wasn't recording the conversation, so I am paraphrasing here but what was said was "We like the kid. He'll be good. But he might be more of a fit for what Phil wanted to run vs what we are going to run. So, it might take longer than we all want and other guys might have fit a little better."

And some version of that was said by a few folks.

I only talked to him briefly. The entire staff is operating as if they are there to stay, but you can sense they all have no real idea what is going on.

On Hardaway, lots of people do like him in the organization.

This clarifies it (on Frank N) and also shows how as posters we can be quick to seize on a phrase that is actually part of a paragraph of thought.

I was going to post on it until I read this. My read on that statement on Frank N (the first one) was that there isn't always 100% consensus, not on if a player is good/sucks, but that a few guys might lean towards liking another player more, but think both are good, or that one is a better fit for one style of offense/defense, but both are still good. Or in this case, what I liked to hear is that they liked him, might take a little longer to contribute. Probably Phil contingent saw Frank as needing development time but with team oriented approach could crack minutes/rotation sooner, while perhaps the other contingent sees Frank as needing more time in general - or more time in a more pure P&R offense than say, Smith needed - to contribute more right away.

I think it's important to note that there is probably never 100% consensus on players except in the obvious cases.

Then again, it's the Knicks, so it's also entirely possible the entire time there was some sort of Mills/Harkenstein cabal that Phil/Gaines had to fight with all the time, because, MSG/Dolan.

[thebuzzardman]

Hey all!

Here are this year's notes from Orlando Summer League. Hopefully some things of interest in here1

1. They were really happy to bring back Ron Baker. Buzz was he wanted to play Summer League, but the Knicks shut that down quickly.

2. Team folks seem a bit split on Frank Ntilikina. Some think he was Phil's guy and with Phil gone, they aren't all 100% sold. But that is pretty common. They were hoping to have him play the last couple of games, but decided it wasn't worth it.

3. Marshall Plumlee had a rough week. He ended up getting cut and one person said "That was a waste of $100k".

4. Chasson Randle had a rough week as well. If the team lands another PG, Randle might be gone.

5. The team expected to have another PG signed by now. They had interest in several of the vets out there, but none were overly interested in playing placeholder for Ntlikina.

6. Don't expect to see Louis Labeyrie ever in anything beyond a SL uniform. The quote was "What a waste of a pick. He has all the potential in the world, but just doesn't get it at all."

7. They love Luke Kornet. While most see him as a just a stretch 4, they were impressed with his finishing around the rim and he showed better than expected athleticism.

8. Damyean Dotson has a ways to go and will log considerable time in the NBAGL this year.

9. Ognjen Jaramaz showed some nice skills. He'll likely develop overseas for the next couple of years.

10. Nigel Hayes may get a camp deal and then assigned to the NBAGL as an Affiliate Player (different from the new two-way contract). He needs to improve, but showed enough for that. Same with Jamel Artis and possibly Canyon Barry.

11. The sense is that nothing big can get done until they resolve the Melo situation. Even the Hardaway offer sheet was a surprise. The number one question every FA asked was "Is Melo staying?" and that makes it hard to land anyone.

Surprised with the comments on Labyrinth and Dotson. Thought Labyrinth showed significant strides. Also Dotson has an nba ready skill in his shooting.

The Labia quotes may be coming from Gaines. Think about it. Euro guy gets touted. Gaines checks him out and sees all the tools etc, with the caveat, like a LOT of young players, that "if he gets his head right, he'll be good" - which in this case for a low 2nd rounder means make the end of the bench. Sees player not truly getting it together based on what they thought he could become, determine they "wasted the pick", even though Gaines was in on blessing the pick. Entirely possible.

[Adelheid]

:lol: guys, for the record Smitty's a sports writer who was at the summer league with access to coaches and managers. If you're feeling particularly bored you can probably figure out who he is.



Was that actually how somebody phrased it?

The Hardaway move seemed almost like a payback move. Obviously Phil didn't like him and somebody else in the org did. I hope they give Frank a fair shake. There's a chance he becomes a unique and special player. A PG version of Iggy or Tayshaun Prince who does a lot more than his box scores tell you.

Did you get a chance to talk to Clarance Gaines and if so whether it seemed like he was a part of the team going forward?

I wasn't recording the conversation, so I am paraphrasing here but what was said was "We like the kid. He'll be good. But he might be more of a fit for what Phil wanted to run vs what we are going to run. So, it might take longer than we all want and other guys might have fit a little better."

And some version of that was said by a few folks.

I only talked to him briefly. The entire staff is operating as if they are there to stay, but you can sense they all have no real idea what is going on.

On Hardaway, lots of people do like him in the organization.

Those guys are untouchable in a way. Tough luck for Phil, but he chose this job without envioning the strife that would emanate from clashing with the Dolan faithfuls.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Great info... Thanks Smitty!

[BKlutch]

As for #6, no team has ever won an NBA championship playing a walking toothpick. Ask Manute Bol.

My take on #3 is that Dolan thanked him for his service and gave him the extra $100K because....he's Jimmy.

#8...remember the caliber of play in the Summer League. Last year we were creaming over Randle and look how he was exposed.

#6 You're right, but as a bench player, he might be helpful in circumstances where we need to spread the floor and hit 3's. If not, he's cheap and expendable

#3 - Again, it was charity to give the guy $100K for his service. I'd be happy to play as badly for a season for the same. Paying guys to have a "year long tryout" for us to see if they can develop is a great strategy when you're looking for a diamond in the rough, but we shouldn't get to hyped about them unless they can prove themselves. The other Plumlees are ok, but he wasn't up to even their standard.

#8 I was distressed last year (and in previous years) to see guys getting hyped based only on summer league play after mediocre college careers. I was happy to see Baker do as well as he did, and not surprised that Randle can't really help the team because of his lack of basic skills. Does anybody remember if there was hype about Andy Rautins? Does Anybody even remember Andy? (I don't, but I have a recurring calendar item to remind me such a player was once on the Knicks.)

[BKlutch]

:lol: guys, for the record Smitty's a sports writer who was at the summer league with access to coaches and managers. If you're feeling particularly bored you can probably figure out who he is.



Was that actually how somebody phrased it?

The Hardaway move seemed almost like a payback move. Obviously Phil didn't like him and somebody else in the org did. I hope they give Frank a fair shake. There's a chance he becomes a unique and special player. A PG version of Iggy or Tayshaun Prince who does a lot more than his box scores tell you.

Did you get a chance to talk to Clarance Gaines and if so whether it seemed like he was a part of the team going forward?

I wasn't recording the conversation, so I am paraphrasing here but what was said was "We like the kid. He'll be good. But he might be more of a fit for what Phil wanted to run vs what we are going to run. So, it might take longer than we all want and other guys might have fit a little better."

And some version of that was said by a few folks.

I only talked to him briefly. The entire staff is operating as if they are there to stay, but you can sense they all have no real idea what is going on.

On Hardaway, lots of people do like him in the organization.

This clarifies it (on Frank N) and also shows how as posters we can be quick to seize on a phrase that is actually part of a paragraph of thought.

I was going to post on it until I read this. My read on that statement on Frank N (the first one) was that there isn't always 100% consensus, not on if a player is good/sucks, but that a few guys might lean towards liking another player more, but think both are good, or that one is a better fit for one style of offense/defense, but both are still good. Or in this case, what I liked to hear is that they liked him, might take a little longer to contribute. Probably Phil contingent saw Frank as needing development time but with team oriented approach could crack minutes/rotation sooner, while perhaps the other contingent sees Frank as needing more time in general - or more time in a more pure P&R offense than say, Smith needed - to contribute more right away.

I think it's important to note that there is probably never 100% consensus on players except in the obvious cases.

Then again, it's the Knicks, so it's also entirely possible the entire time there was some sort of Mills/Harkenstein cabal that Phil/Gaines had to fight with all the time, because, MSG/Dolan.

Frank seems to be able to run, and he was a big factor in his team going as far as it did in the French playoffs. If he was smart enough to understand the triangle, he is young enough to apply that intelligence towards Horny's system, as well. So I see him being a good point guard who can set up others and play D on the perimeter in a way we haven't seen since the greats of long ago (Jose Failderon?).

[BKlutch]

Hey all!

Here are this year's notes from Orlando Summer League. Hopefully some things of interest in here1

1. They were really happy to bring back Ron Baker. Buzz was he wanted to play Summer League, but the Knicks shut that down quickly.

2. Team folks seem a bit split on Frank Ntilikina. Some think he was Phil's guy and with Phil gone, they aren't all 100% sold. But that is pretty common. They were hoping to have him play the last couple of games, but decided it wasn't worth it.

3. Marshall Plumlee had a rough week. He ended up getting cut and one person said "That was a waste of $100k".

4. Chasson Randle had a rough week as well. If the team lands another PG, Randle might be gone.

5. The team expected to have another PG signed by now. They had interest in several of the vets out there, but none were overly interested in playing placeholder for Ntlikina.

6. Don't expect to see Louis Labeyrie ever in anything beyond a SL uniform. The quote was "What a waste of a pick. He has all the potential in the world, but just doesn't get it at all."

7. They love Luke Kornet. While most see him as a just a stretch 4, they were impressed with his finishing around the rim and he showed better than expected athleticism.

8. Damyean Dotson has a ways to go and will log considerable time in the NBAGL this year.

9. Ognjen Jaramaz showed some nice skills. He'll likely develop overseas for the next couple of years.

10. Nigel Hayes may get a camp deal and then assigned to the NBAGL as an Affiliate Player (different from the new two-way contract). He needs to improve, but showed enough for that. Same with Jamel Artis and possibly Canyon Barry.

11. The sense is that nothing big can get done until they resolve the Melo situation. Even the Hardaway offer sheet was a surprise. The number one question every FA asked was "Is Melo staying?" and that makes it hard to land anyone.

Surprised with the comments on Labyrinth and Dotson. Thought Labyrinth showed significant strides. Also Dotson has an nba ready skill in his shooting.

The Labia quotes may be coming from Gaines. Think about it. Euro guy gets touted. Gaines checks him out and sees all the tools etc, with the caveat, like a LOT of young players, that "if he gets his head right, he'll be good" - which in this case for a low 2nd rounder means make the end of the bench. Sees player not truly getting it together based on what they thought he could become, determine they "wasted the pick", even though Gaines was in on blessing the pick. Entirely possible.

This was what I was thinking about Loose. He had time in France to develop like our guys here in the D(G) league. He seems to have the athletic ability without having really become a player we could use. He'd be better off in a Euro league where the rest of the talent is closer to his level. But he did do a great job growing out his hair like RoLo.