Somebody’s got to go.

[HerSports85]

Trade: Burke and Lee. Lock Trier and Mudiay up.

I hate that Dotson contract isn’t longer smh.

Bye Baker and Mario



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how much you think it costs to retain mudiay long-term? and do you think paying mudiay is worth not having a max slot available this summer?

I’ll put Mudiay in the Dion Waiters range and offer 12-14 per year. If we can shed Lee and even Thomas contracts we will still have max cat money this summer. I just don’t see a team offering him anything close to 17-20mil for that much he can walk.


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[cuyankees]

Trade Burke.

while we don't need trey, he's one of the cost-controlled options whose cap hold is pretty manageable.

i would see if he draws interest as a sweetener or could pry loose a pick.

Thats the thing with Buke. His cap hold being at league minimum actually gives him value going into FA as opposed to Mudiay whos cap hold is 12million.

I was tempted to post Burke and Lee for Gasol and a FRP but not sure if Spurs would do that.. Need an asset from them though to complete that trade

Think people are looking @ it backwards actually bc the bigger cap holds are more attractive in a relative sense bc of more trade flexibility, Mud is actually the perfect guy to deal relative to TB. Glad most are optimistic that Treyverson has any value, but just don’t see it. GMs know the Knicks roster, cap, and future setup; GMs know that Trey will be available so why pay now unless you’re desperate? Most importantly, he’s the worst kind of guard, an undersized, high usage ISO guy. Would be surprised if TB fetched a 2nd RDer.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Trade: Burke and Lee. Lock Trier and Mudiay up.

I hate that Dotson contract isn’t longer smh.

Bye Baker and Mario



Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

how much you think it costs to retain mudiay long-term? and do you think paying mudiay is worth not having a max slot available this summer?

I’ll put Mudiay in the Dion Waiters range and offer 12-14 per year. If we can shed Lee and even Thom

ias contracts we will still have max cat money this summer. I just don’t see a team offering him anything close to 17-20mil for that much he can walk.


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if mudiay is real, then it would be a good play to retain him. i think his cap hold alone is around $12m.

shedding lance was always factored in. essentially replacing lee's salary with mudiay's would still leave us in need of finding some cap space else where for a veteran max slot.

and i assume you want to keep trier. we have to factor that in too.

i don't know all of the cap holds we have to factor in, but i'm seeing about $40m cap space if we pay trier $5m, mudiay $12m, a first round lottery pick $6m, a second rounder $2m and renounce everyone else in this scenario where lee is cleared and lance is waived. that doesn't factor in mandatory cap holds for the remaining roster spots.

i think everyone has to go AND we have to trade lee if we want to assure a max spot. but moving lee for relief could give us some wiggle room to keep one of the prospects (mudiay/vonleh) and a max cat. we're eating ramen noodles after that though.

[Apples]

Yeah several players have to go.

[cuyankees]

how much you think it costs to retain mudiay long-term? and do you think paying mudiay is worth not having a max slot available this summer?

I’ll put Mudiay in the Dion Waiters range and offer 12-14 per year. If we can shed Lee and even Thom

ias contracts we will still have max cat money this summer. I just don’t see a team offering him anything close to 17-20mil for that much he can walk.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

if mudiay is real, then it would be a good play to retain him. i think his cap hold alone is around $12m.

shedding lance was always factored in. essentially replacing lee's salary with mudiay's would still leave us in need of finding some cap space else where for a veteran max slot.

and i assume you want to keep trier. we have to factor that in too.

i don't know all of the cap holds we have to factor in, but i'm seeing about $40m cap space if we pay trier $5m, mudiay $12m, a first round lottery pick $6m, a second rounder $2m and renounce everyone else in this scenario where lee is cleared and lance is waived. that doesn't factor in mandatory cap holds for the remaining roster spots.

i think everyone has to go AND we have to trade lee if we want to assure a max spot. but moving lee for relief could give us some wiggle room to keep one of the prospects (mudiay/vonleh) and a max cat. we're eating ramen noodles after that though.

Think in that scenario, think around 32mn with Lee going and not renouncing Mud.

[god shammgod]

i vote wingo

[K_ick_God]

Hard to see Vonleh not getting a good offer if he's at this level in the summer. He's tough, smart, plays D, and is rounding out a pretty complete, if somewhat rough-edged, offensive attack.

What we needed was to have them all on options for next season, as Dot is.

[br7knicks]

I hope you’re right but unless we can get expirings for Lee and the others even a few 2nd rd picks It’s not even worth trading them

don't lee and thomas become appealing expiring contracts next year? this is a throw away year, so why not keep and use them as an expiring next year?

i just feel bad because lee deserves to go to a contender. i like the way lance plays, but he's not worth that ~$7 million he's making

timmy has a player option, though, doesn't he? which sucks, because it'd be nice if he was expiring too. i don't think anyone will offer him anything remotely close to that after his current contract is up.

but, honestly, timmy's contract doesn't look too bad, when compared to others making more than him right now (especially significantly more). at this point, with recent reports, wall and timmy may have similar trade value - obviously not talent wise. but with wall making $40+ million per year, and timmy making $17 million, not sure how many are jumping on either guy.

lee and thomas are fine expirings next year, but the idea is to create a max slot for this summer. also, the team should be moving away from them. i could see lance being fine getting paid to hold a clipboard and play spot minutes in support of youth. lee should still be playing. and he does deserve for us to find him a place to contend, as he took less money to join our "superteam" with noah melo, and rose.

i would not be surprised if tim opted out of that final year. someone would give him starting pay north of that for long-term. then he can loan his dad some money. but his trade kicker makes him not worth a trade. he's arguably worth his contract as is. who wants to pay more to finish steve mills' gamble.

and with all that, i really think mills sees tim as part of the future.

I think if the supply is low for scoring FA the year tim has the option will determine how much he'll get. If the top teams don't need a scorer, I don't see him getting a lot of offers. But if a top team needs scoring, and has room, I'd see someone offering him money but less years.

[br7knicks]

Hard to see Vonleh not getting a good offer if he's at this level in the summer. He's tough, smart, plays D, and is rounding out a pretty complete, if somewhat rough-edged, offensive attack.

What we needed was to have them all on options for next season, as Dot is.

I think he's still flying under the radar of teams. Ideally, he'll show the Knicks promise and hope for a long term, cheap future, but other teams not so much. He has been on, what, 4 teams in 4 years? My hope is that that's how teams still remember him, so they'll pass on him

[Jeff Van Gully]

Hard to see Vonleh not getting a good offer if he's at this level in the summer. He's tough, smart, plays D, and is rounding out a pretty complete, if somewhat rough-edged, offensive attack.

What we needed was to have them all on options for next season, as Dot is.

no one signs up for that without both years yielding more money. von was ready to show the league what he's got. as you say, his bag is secure if he can keep this level of play up.

we have two guys panning out at what is effectively the tail end of the rookie scale commitment. it happens like that for some guys. i think this is a good general practice for team operations.

[cgf]

Signing Mudiay long term would be such a knicks thing to do.

[mugzi]

There’s an obvious log jam at the two guard. Because of the contract we signed Trier to, we're most at risk of losing him this offseason.

Lee is back and him and Tammy are going to eat most of the minutes at the 2/3.

I like Dotson for our team more then ISO ZO.

I don’t see how we couldn’t get a pick in the 15-21 range at this point for ZO.

Questions are
who should go?
Who has more value?
Are politics going to factor into Dot being traded not Zo if one is traded at all?

i'd much rather keep dotson than zo. although, based on this fan base with their love of players the last decade or so, they'd rather have a guy who will put up stats (Zo) than someone who will try to win and play defense (dotson).

this is where i have the knicks backcourt valued, compared to their contract, etc. and the other in which i'd like to keep these guys, as of now.

dotson: best backcourt player the knicks have, overall. although i don't think other teams value him as highly. compared to similar players, he should be a late lottery pick, but i doubt he gets anything better than the 20s, for a pick.
mudiay: i like what he's showing, but he may be looking to get paid. if he continues to play like this, i'd like to see him to something under $10 a year. but i'll wait til the end of the season to see if he can sustain this level of play. he may get a late first rounder, in the 20s.
trier: i'd like to keep him for now, but he doesn't play defense and ISOs way too much. if there's anything we've learned over the last decade, empty stats and ISOing doesn't win basketball, at all. doubt he'd get a lot back, at this point. teams are seeing what GSW is doing - team basketball, and defense - and how that produces wins, versus ISOing all the time, which, as we know, produces losing.
frank: i'm not giving up on him yet, as i prefer defense over empty stats, unlike most people here. but i think he won't get much more than a later 1st round pick at this point. he just doesn't show any desire to play basketball. maybe he's just not a "rah, rah," in your face type of personality, which is fine. but he needs to show more on the court.
lee: there has to be a contender looking for a guy like him. OKC may be wanting him, with roberson having a pretty big set back in his rehab. just not sure what he looks like after his "injuries."
timmy: compared to others, his contract isn't looking AS bad as originally thought - although, it's still a disgusting signing. maybe there's a team that will take a shot at him, but i highly doubt it. i think the knicks are stuck with him until his contract expires, or on the final year.
burke: maybe, MAYBE a second round pick somewhere from a team without a PG
baker: lol. he's expiring, right?


i like lee better than trier and frank, but he may have less value, with his contract and all. i flip flop between frank and trier on who i'd rather keep, though.

Spot on mate.

[mugzi]

Signing Mudiay long term would be such a knicks thing to do.

Word. Do not want Bootiay

[Rock Bottom]

Someone might be injured soon also.. theyre all playing hard..

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

re salary cap: yes, ok, I'm going to confess I don't understand many things about this.

I'm going to steal knicksfilmschool's jpg - but go to the excellent site: https://knicksfilmschool.com/salary-cap/ for this and more great content

**** DISCLAIMER *****

I have no connection at all with kfs - always enjoyed the videos via twitter, but the site has loads of interesting stuff (imo), which I'm just discovering.

**** END DISCLAIMER ****

But there are a few assumptions there for 2019-20 afaics.

Eg,

the lotto pick might be higher or lower - eg, if we pick 8th then we save cap space

the Trier salary for 2019-20 is designated what there? league min? In any case he is his own complicated story

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/11/24/understanding-allonzo-triers-contract-options/
https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/11/29/allonzo-trier-has-worked-several-days-on-the-knicks-for-free/

So he is waivable and/or may want to be signed to a contract to the end of the season only.

Dot also appears as if he could be discarded. (Team not pick up option.) I'm not sure about that.

But renouncing everyone possible seems to get to being able to sign, eg., Kemba.

The tough stuff comes if either (i) the Knicks want to sign KD, or (ii) the Knicks want to keep your favourite player in { Vonleh, Mudiah, Trier, Burke, Dot? ...} .

My - perhaps completely wrong view - is that it is going to be very hard to make trades again this year. I've already said I think Courtney Lee is hugely underrated, but I really doubt the Knicks can trade him. I'll be pleased to be proved wrong. The expiring's are almost untradeable too - why pay anything to the Knicks for Ron Baker or Vonleh when you can just pick them up in the off season for their salary? None of those guys are going to make a team reaching for the sky better this year (at least to the extent that one would trade for them). (I mean, I like the CLee+Burke for Gasol + ? idea .. but why would you do that - you don't need Burke right now..)

If we can't make trades, one thing that might be possible is to stretch and waive Courtney. If that is possible then that just gets you over the line as far as having the money to sign KD. (Otoh, I know nothing about whether the league let's you s&w multiple players.)

Summing up: it seems to me that if one wants to pay any of Mudiay, Noah, Mario, and they finish out the year playing well you have to trade THJr and/or renounce taking a shot at a max-free agent this year. Assuming it is possible to trade THJr in the off season .. which .. :shrug:

[TBri1974]

Dotson as the starting 2G with Trier coming off the bench at 1 and 2 makes the most sense to me. Would love to see them trade THJ - and Lee - but not sure it will happen. I do think we will be active in the trade market come mid-December when we can trade guys like Hezonja.

[nykballa2k4]

I think right now we are in "sell vets" mode. I expect Muddy, Mario, Lee to all be traded ASAP. Depending on assets offered, I could also see Frank being moved for the right price.

I hope you’re right but unless we can get expirings for Lee and the others even a few 2nd rd picks It’s not even worth trading them

don't lee and thomas become appealing expiring contracts next year? this is a throw away year, so why not keep and use them as an expiring next year?

i just feel bad because lee deserves to go to a contender. i like the way lance plays, but he's not worth that ~$7 million he's making

timmy has a player option, though, doesn't he? which sucks, because it'd be nice if he was expiring too. i don't think anyone will offer him anything remotely close to that after his current contract is up.

but, honestly, timmy's contract doesn't look too bad, when compared to others making more than him right now (especially significantly more). at this point, with recent reports, wall and timmy may have similar trade value - obviously not talent wise. but with wall making $40+ million per year, and timmy making $17 million, not sure how many are jumping on either guy.

If it were not for character issues, I would be ALL SORTS of about Timmy+Burke+Lee+Thomas for Wall. The problem is that he isn't being paid the 40M now so without a 17M EC to tie to him no way of making a salary neutral deal.

KP/Mitch
Zion
Durant/Knox
Dots/Frank
Wall/Trier
I think that juuuuuust fits no?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Did I just lose my post? WTH?

Burke and Lee need to go. I'm not concerned with max space. Gutting the team for one player would seem like skipping steps. I understand wanting the ability to sign a max player. I guess. Unless it's a healthy young player...I'm not interested anyway.

There's a lot of season left. Lee needs to go for sure. Burke can drive him. That makes room for some minutes. Baker would probably be cut for Trier. Wario? I don't see why we would keep him around.

This trade deadline is where we will see the direction the team is really going. We will have more insight into how good Perry actually is at his job. I want Zion. Winning doesn't help that. Winning with the kids though? I can't be mad. For this rebuild to work we need to land a stud in the next draft and, hope the kids we have reach their potential.

Frank/Trier/Dot/Knox/Mitch with KP coming back. That's our youth under contract. Timmy is probably not going anywhere so add him to the list of who will probably(should) be here next year. What do you do with the rest?

Mud looks better for a couple 2-3 weeks now. Pulling for him to reach his draft status because, he's only 22. 12 million cap hold. He's got to play at a high level for the year to keep him. Trade deadline could come in to play here. We have his rights but, that hold doesn't fit in with having max flexibility.

Burke has a really low salary and cap hold. I would trade him. Filler/sweetener in a Lee trade?

Mario? Not impressed with him at all. Cap hold? Nah b. Hit the bricks. What's his trade value? Filler as an expiring in a trade?

Vonleh is looking like the only keeper. What's his price tag? I think he's a great FC fit here.

Perry....GET TO WORK!!!

[nedleeds]

Release Kanter, Burke and Hezonjackoff. Tommy for any matching expiring salary if a GM is dumb enough to. The answers are so **** simple. Hold Lee until teams who want to waste their lives losing to GSW, like Houston or Portland get desperate and catapult him for more expiring flotsam.

[dakomish23]

Trade Burke and Hardaway\Lee.

I like this plan

It’s more likely we see Dot & Frank traded than THJ, Muddy & Burke IMO. Those guys belong to this FO.

Lee I think they’re ready to move on from for an expiring