Around the NBA - Training Camp

[GONYK]

PPG? Seriously? They are using just plain PPG as their main argument/measurement?

And lol, at

I don't think anyone who's somewhat reasonable is expecting KD to return the same. But compering him/his situation to some bum list where 90% of the players are role players or even worse, and then list their PPG drop-off, where I'am completely sure majority of those guys had their MPG and Roles (Cousins is the prime example) lowered when they returned from Injury, and thats the really important reason why their production dropped.

KD is not your typical NBA player, or just your regular all-star. Hes top20 NBA player of all-time. Even if the drops off 30%, hes still worth the max, and definitely worth the gamble if there is even a slight chance he returns the same or really close to it.

So are you saying that KD will justify the $40M+ salary he will get in years 2-4 of his contract so much that the Knicks should wish they would have his likely production? Would we want to pay that much that for 15 -17 ppg?

Again, its not his likely production. Just because you mix all the players with completely different situations in a same bowl without adding much context and draw some conclusion, doesn't mean anything. The same thing it doesn't mean anything when Pelton came out with his 10% drop-off or whatever it was.

I don't think its even an argument you take a risk and sign KD if he wanted to come. I mean, we wasted 40mil of space on some role-players and next year it gonna be the same, because there is basically no-one worth paying big long-term money. So its already two years when paying KD would've been an no brainer, over some random fringe guys. And again, nothing suggest Knicks are gonna be in the mix for someone in 2021, so why not just take a risk on KD, because if he returns even close to his current self, he is not worth the max, he is worth much more than that and if hes your 16-17ppg guy, yes, hes gonna be overpaid, but again, its not like you could've used that money better than taking a gamble on a top 20 player of all-time.

There is a huge difference between $40M being tied up in 3 guys on 1 yr deals vs being tied up into one guy for 4 years.

[DOT]

So are you saying that KD will justify the $40M+ salary he will get in years 2-4 of his contract so much that the Knicks should wish they would have his likely production? Would we want to pay that much that for 15 -17 ppg?

Again, its not his likely production. Just because you mix all the players with completely different situations in a same bowl without adding much context and draw some conclusion, doesn't mean anything. The same thing it doesn't mean anything when Pelton came out with his 10% drop-off or whatever it was.

I don't think its even an argument you take a risk and sign KD if he wanted to come. I mean, we wasted 40mil of space on some role-players and next year it gonna be the same, because there is basically no-one worth paying big long-term money. So its already two years when paying KD would've been an no brainer, over some random fringe guys. And again, nothing suggest Knicks are gonna be in the mix for someone in 2021, so why not just take a risk on KD, because if he returns even close to his current self, he is not worth the max, he is worth much more than that and if hes your 16-17ppg guy, yes, hes gonna be overpaid, but again, its not like you could've used that money better than taking a gamble on a top 20 player of all-time.

Here's a list of every player that averaged between 16-17 ppg last year

Aaron Gordon
Eric Gordon
Deandre Ayton
Harrison Barnes
Josh Richardson
Montrezl Harrell
Clint Capela
Collin Sexton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jordan Clarkson
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam

None of those guys are worth 40 mil a year. You say why not take the risk on KD, but the risk is, if he comes back at 80%, that's basically where Melo was his last year with us. You want to tie up over a third of our cap for that level of play?

If you have an MVP level talent, or at least a true #1 guy, sure maybe. Like, if Kawhi wanted to come here, I would say yes, absolutely take KD with him. But just by himself would have been a terrible idea, and we would not have been able to sign anyone to put around him, then by the time his contract is up we would have to pay the kids, so we get the worst of both worlds in that regard

[Knicksfan1992]

So are you saying that KD will justify the $40M+ salary he will get in years 2-4 of his contract so much that the Knicks should wish they would have his likely production? Would we want to pay that much that for 15 -17 ppg?

Again, its not his likely production. Just because you mix all the players with completely different situations in a same bowl without adding much context and draw some conclusion, doesn't mean anything. The same thing it doesn't mean anything when Pelton came out with his 10% drop-off or whatever it was.

I don't think its even an argument you take a risk and sign KD if he wanted to come. I mean, we wasted 40mil of space on some role-players and next year it gonna be the same, because there is basically no-one worth paying big long-term money. So its already two years when paying KD would've been an no brainer, over some random fringe guys. And again, nothing suggest Knicks are gonna be in the mix for someone in 2021, so why not just take a risk on KD, because if he returns even close to his current self, he is not worth the max, he is worth much more than that and if hes your 16-17ppg guy, yes, hes gonna be overpaid, but again, its not like you could've used that money better than taking a gamble on a top 20 player of all-time.

Here's a list of every player that averaged between 16-17 ppg last year

Aaron Gordon
Eric Gordon
Deandre Ayton
Harrison Barnes
Josh Richardson
Montrezl Harrell
Clint Capela
Collin Sexton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jordan Clarkson
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam

None of those guys are worth 40 mil a year. You say why not take the risk on KD, but the risk is, if he comes back at 80%, that's basically where Melo was his last year with us. You want to tie up over a third of our cap for that level of play?

If you have an MVP level talent, or at least a true #1 guy, sure maybe. Like, if Kawhi wanted to come here, I would say yes, absolutely take KD with him. But just by himself would have been a terrible idea, and we would not have been able to sign anyone to put around him, then by the time his contract is up we would have to pay the kids, so we get the worst of both worlds in that regard

I would say Ben Simmons is definitely worth a max and Siakam in the right situation also would be. I know that's not your point but I just disagree with the notion that none of those guys are worth paying the absolute max to

[GONYK]

Again, its not his likely production. Just because you mix all the players with completely different situations in a same bowl without adding much context and draw some conclusion, doesn't mean anything. The same thing it doesn't mean anything when Pelton came out with his 10% drop-off or whatever it was.

I don't think its even an argument you take a risk and sign KD if he wanted to come. I mean, we wasted 40mil of space on some role-players and next year it gonna be the same, because there is basically no-one worth paying big long-term money. So its already two years when paying KD would've been an no brainer, over some random fringe guys. And again, nothing suggest Knicks are gonna be in the mix for someone in 2021, so why not just take a risk on KD, because if he returns even close to his current self, he is not worth the max, he is worth much more than that and if hes your 16-17ppg guy, yes, hes gonna be overpaid, but again, its not like you could've used that money better than taking a gamble on a top 20 player of all-time.

Here's a list of every player that averaged between 16-17 ppg last year

Aaron Gordon
Eric Gordon
Deandre Ayton
Harrison Barnes
Josh Richardson
Montrezl Harrell
Clint Capela
Collin Sexton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jordan Clarkson
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam

None of those guys are worth 40 mil a year. You say why not take the risk on KD, but the risk is, if he comes back at 80%, that's basically where Melo was his last year with us. You want to tie up over a third of our cap for that level of play?

If you have an MVP level talent, or at least a true #1 guy, sure maybe. Like, if Kawhi wanted to come here, I would say yes, absolutely take KD with him. But just by himself would have been a terrible idea, and we would not have been able to sign anyone to put around him, then by the time his contract is up we would have to pay the kids, so we get the worst of both worlds in that regard

I would say Ben Simmons is definitely worth a max and Siakam in the right situation also would be. I know that's not your point but I just disagree with the notion that none of those guys are worth paying the absolute max to

They might be worth their MAX. Would you pay them $40M/yr?

[DOT]

Again, its not his likely production. Just because you mix all the players with completely different situations in a same bowl without adding much context and draw some conclusion, doesn't mean anything. The same thing it doesn't mean anything when Pelton came out with his 10% drop-off or whatever it was.

I don't think its even an argument you take a risk and sign KD if he wanted to come. I mean, we wasted 40mil of space on some role-players and next year it gonna be the same, because there is basically no-one worth paying big long-term money. So its already two years when paying KD would've been an no brainer, over some random fringe guys. And again, nothing suggest Knicks are gonna be in the mix for someone in 2021, so why not just take a risk on KD, because if he returns even close to his current self, he is not worth the max, he is worth much more than that and if hes your 16-17ppg guy, yes, hes gonna be overpaid, but again, its not like you could've used that money better than taking a gamble on a top 20 player of all-time.

Here's a list of every player that averaged between 16-17 ppg last year

Aaron Gordon
Eric Gordon
Deandre Ayton
Harrison Barnes
Josh Richardson
Montrezl Harrell
Clint Capela
Collin Sexton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jordan Clarkson
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam

None of those guys are worth 40 mil a year. You say why not take the risk on KD, but the risk is, if he comes back at 80%, that's basically where Melo was his last year with us. You want to tie up over a third of our cap for that level of play?

If you have an MVP level talent, or at least a true #1 guy, sure maybe. Like, if Kawhi wanted to come here, I would say yes, absolutely take KD with him. But just by himself would have been a terrible idea, and we would not have been able to sign anyone to put around him, then by the time his contract is up we would have to pay the kids, so we get the worst of both worlds in that regard

I would say Ben Simmons is definitely worth a max and Siakam in the right situation also would be. I know that's not your point but I just disagree with the notion that none of those guys are worth paying the absolute max to

In the right situation being the key with Siakam. Simmons, it's debatable. Again, I think it depends on the situation

Like I said about KD, if he's not gonna be the guy for your team, if you have that true #1, I can understand taking the risk. But for us, we don't have a the guy, and even if RJ or say we tank again this year and get a high pick and he becomes the guy, that's still gonna take a couple years, and by that time, KD will be 35 taking up a huge part of the cap. Much better to sit on it and see if someone else wants to come, or use that money to flesh out the team around the young players if they develop right

Which is why I think it's a big risk for the Nets, cause Kyrie hasn't really shown he can be a #1 and lead a team through the playoffs

[DOT]

Here's a list of every player that averaged between 16-17 ppg last year

Aaron Gordon
Eric Gordon
Deandre Ayton
Harrison Barnes
Josh Richardson
Montrezl Harrell
Clint Capela
Collin Sexton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jordan Clarkson
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam

None of those guys are worth 40 mil a year. You say why not take the risk on KD, but the risk is, if he comes back at 80%, that's basically where Melo was his last year with us. You want to tie up over a third of our cap for that level of play?

If you have an MVP level talent, or at least a true #1 guy, sure maybe. Like, if Kawhi wanted to come here, I would say yes, absolutely take KD with him. But just by himself would have been a terrible idea, and we would not have been able to sign anyone to put around him, then by the time his contract is up we would have to pay the kids, so we get the worst of both worlds in that regard

I would say Ben Simmons is definitely worth a max and Siakam in the right situation also would be. I know that's not your point but I just disagree with the notion that none of those guys are worth paying the absolute max to

They might be worth their MAX. Would you pay them $40M/yr?

Also to consider in this scenario, you're not getting them at their age, you're getting them as they are right now for 3-4 years with no improvement but possible regression

So like, with Simmons, you factor in he's 23 and likely to improve, that raises how much a team would be willing to pay him. If they knew he wasn't gonna improve at all, he wouldn't be worth as much

[Knicksfan1992]

Here's a list of every player that averaged between 16-17 ppg last year

Aaron Gordon
Eric Gordon
Deandre Ayton
Harrison Barnes
Josh Richardson
Montrezl Harrell
Clint Capela
Collin Sexton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jordan Clarkson
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam

None of those guys are worth 40 mil a year. You say why not take the risk on KD, but the risk is, if he comes back at 80%, that's basically where Melo was his last year with us. You want to tie up over a third of our cap for that level of play?

If you have an MVP level talent, or at least a true #1 guy, sure maybe. Like, if Kawhi wanted to come here, I would say yes, absolutely take KD with him. But just by himself would have been a terrible idea, and we would not have been able to sign anyone to put around him, then by the time his contract is up we would have to pay the kids, so we get the worst of both worlds in that regard

I would say Ben Simmons is definitely worth a max and Siakam in the right situation also would be. I know that's not your point but I just disagree with the notion that none of those guys are worth paying the absolute max to

They might be worth their MAX. Would you pay them $40M/yr?

I would no doubt pay Simmons 40 million. Even if he doesn't end up shooting it well guys at 6"10' just don't move, handle and pass like he does period. Being able to be an offensive engine at that size and also be one of the most versatile defenders in the league is so ridiculously valuable to a GM trying to craft a succesful team around him. He's honestly what everyone really wants Doncic to be...

Siakam I'd have to think hard about but i'd probably do it as well, however a lot of that decision would be based on who is on the roster already. If I don't have another 20 ppg scorer already he becomes a little less valuable form a team construction standpoint.

[Clyde Frazier]

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this pic looks fake!

[Sark]

Watch on YouTube

[Capn'O]

I didn't want to give KD the bag post injury.

KP, on the other hand, looks good. Particularly looks like he put on some core strength.

[SelbyCobra]

I didn't want to give KD the bag post injury.

KP, on the other hand, looks good. Particularly looks like he put on some core strength.

I'm honestly not that concerned about Porzingis coming back to be a major f*ck up by the Knicks. Could he become a hall of famer? Absolutely. But KP "looking good" has always been the thing that drove much of the hype about him; it's historically been largely about the aesthetic in the evaluation of him - from "look at the weight he's put on this year!" to "it's unbelievable he can pull that move off at 7'3"!" and everything in-between. In the end it did almost nothing to change his lack of toughness in the paint, his inability to rebound, his inefficiency as a scorer, or his overall durability.

I definitely believe he can be great, but he hasn't been to this point, and "how he looks" in training camp hasn't had much bearing on his results that matter so far in his career.

[melo4three]

I didn't want to give KD the bag post injury.

KP, on the other hand, looks good. Particularly looks like he put on some core strength.

I prefer randle, especially considering he is cheaper with better production.

[spree2kawhi]

I didn't want to give KD the bag post injury.

KP, on the other hand, looks good. Particularly looks like he put on some core strength.

I prefer randle, especially considering he is cheaper with better production.

This really is all that matters.

[Capn'O]

I didn't want to give KD the bag post injury.

KP, on the other hand, looks good. Particularly looks like he put on some core strength.

I'm honestly not that concerned about Porzingis coming back to be a major f*ck up by the Knicks. Could he become a hall of famer? Absolutely. But KP "looking good" has always been the thing that drove much of the hype about him; it's historically been largely about the aesthetic in the evaluation of him - from "look at the weight he's put on this year!" to "it's unbelievable he can pull that move off at 7'3"!" and everything in-between. In the end it did almost nothing to change his lack of toughness in the paint, his inability to rebound, his inefficiency as a scorer, or his overall durability.

I definitely believe he can be great, but he hasn't been to this point, and "how he looks" in training camp hasn't had much bearing on his results that matter so far in his career.

He needs to have learned how to rebound (and pass out of trouble) but the core strength is a big piece of what was ailing him. He was always ready to break in the middle and appears to have addressed that piece.

[SelbyCobra]

I didn't want to give KD the bag post injury.

KP, on the other hand, looks good. Particularly looks like he put on some core strength.

I'm honestly not that concerned about Porzingis coming back to be a major f*ck up by the Knicks. Could he become a hall of famer? Absolutely. But KP "looking good" has always been the thing that drove much of the hype about him; it's historically been largely about the aesthetic in the evaluation of him - from "look at the weight he's put on this year!" to "it's unbelievable he can pull that move off at 7'3"!" and everything in-between. In the end it did almost nothing to change his lack of toughness in the paint, his inability to rebound, his inefficiency as a scorer, or his overall durability.

I definitely believe he can be great, but he hasn't been to this point, and "how he looks" in training camp hasn't had much bearing on his results that matter so far in his career.

He needs to have learned how to rebound (and pass out of trouble) but the core strength is a big piece of what was ailing him. He was always ready to break in the middle and appears to have addressed that piece.

I disagree. He just wasn't about that life - much like the totality of his existence in NYC. It always looked like he was settling in, it looked like he was into the NYC culture, it looked like he was a basketball rat who was working tirelessly to address his shortcomings, he talked up toughness and adding to his game...and then he'd get backed down by Avery Bradley or something.

Core strength has something to do with it, but it's not everything when we're talking about getting his lunch taken time and again by much shorter players who weren't even known for operating in the post on either side of the ball.

Man, he looks great, but I'll believe the true stardom when I see it manifested over a full season. I truly believe it's possible. I also personally don't believe the hurdles that are in his way can be fixed by aesthetics.

[Fat Kat]

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[Knicksfan1992]

Read on Twitter

Happy for Trey if he can find success in Philly.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

THJ .. mainly talks about himself. KP stuff starts at approx 2.30. Interesting stuff about playing through injury in NKY last year from ~9mins on

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[blueNorange]

THJ .. mainly talks about himself. KP stuff starts at approx 2.30. Interesting stuff about playing through injury in NKY last year from ~9mins on

Watch on YouTube

the injury he had can go away by constantly being active.

it's not like the knicks did anything malpractice.

[thebuzzardman]

No damn way I'm clicking on 12 minutes of THJr talking