What does an RJ extension look like?

[nedleeds]

This is the type of post you make when you don't watch games.

Or the kind you make when you aren't drunk in your chair thinking RJ is making shots, when he's just getting blocked by Grant Williams over and over.



So walk us through how RJ got "better" last year? He was a far worse shooter, and he was even worse against the league average (which accounts for better shooting in empty gyms for fake stars like Foolius).

Is it because he "goT twenTy a gAmE!!"?

He played well in roles he had never been in before like being the handler in the screen and roll and attacking his man on mismatches which we never saw too much before.

He played well for long stretches and had a couple of dominant performances, the one against the Heat comes to mind.

He absolutely took a dive in efficiency at the end of the season but not everything can be measured statistically. He grew as a basketball player. His issue is his inconsistency.

He probably played more with the ball in his hands this year. I agree with that. However the opposite is true. He was one of the 5 worst pick and roll players in the league (counting players who initiated at least 4 a game and played at least 50 games).

The only player worse than him was Josh Giddey, a 120lb rookie. So quite literally he did almost the worst in the whole league. Giddey turned it over so much he passed him in the end. But he actually scored with better efficiency when he didn't turn it over.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler/#!?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GP*G*50:POSS*G*3.9&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=-1



He did not play well in that role, especially if you take his free throw shooting into account. So you say words like well, and you are not correct. I watched the games and saw a PnR ball handler with

a) no team respecting his ability to shoot off the dribble behind the screen
b) lack of explosion to get the defender (switched or not) behind his shoulder
c) lack of ability to finish over a phone book when he kept, beat the defense and was met with help
d) average passing out of it, which is hard to judge when the defense just goes under and laughs at your jumper

[KnicksNext]

Read on Twitter

If RJ gets more than this contract I would legit be pissed if I was Bridges. RJ is not more valuable than Mikal.

EDIT: I realize teams (of course) are giving out higher contracts than in 10/21, Which is sickening in it's own right.

[nedleeds]

Read on Twitter

If RJ gets more than this contract I would legit be pissed if I was Bridges. RJ is not more valuable than Mikal.

EDIT: I realize teams (of course) are giving out higher contracts than in 10/21, Which is sickening in it's own right.

Holy **** Mikal is a good shooter.

[Chanel Bomber]

Does someone know where you can access RJ's shooting percentages of the last two seasons when he shared the court with Derrick Rose?

I have the suspicion that with two solid PGs in Rose and Brunson, RJ is bound to get his % back in order.

He was statistically less efficient with Rose on the floor.

Damn

The details (didn't have time to post them earlier):

2021-22
With Rose: 50.7 TS% and 24.3 USG
Without Rose: 51.1 TS% and 27.0 USG

2020-21
With Rose: 53.9 TS% and 21.7 USG
Without Rose: 55.9 TS% and 22.6 USG

[nedleeds]

He was statistically less efficient with Rose on the floor.

Damn

The details (didn't have time to post them earlier):

2021-22
With Rose: 50.7 TS% and 24.3 USG
Without Rose: 51.1 TS% and 27.0 USG

2020-21
With Rose: 53.9 TS% and 21.7 USG
Without Rose: 55.9 TS% and 22.6 USG

Bringing the heat.

[HopelessKnick]

He was statistically less efficient with Rose on the floor.

Damn

The details (didn't have time to post them earlier):

2021-22
With Rose: 50.7 TS% and 24.3 USG
Without Rose: 51.1 TS% and 27.0 USG

2020-21
With Rose: 53.9 TS% and 21.7 USG
Without Rose: 55.9 TS% and 22.6 USG

Damn I thought he'd benefit from a good PG---maybe the additional spacing that Brunson provides opens up the lane some.....

[whocares1]

Or the kind you make when you aren't drunk in your chair thinking RJ is making shots, when he's just getting blocked by Grant Williams over and over.



So walk us through how RJ got "better" last year? He was a far worse shooter, and he was even worse against the league average (which accounts for better shooting in empty gyms for fake stars like Foolius).

Is it because he "goT twenTy a gAmE!!"?

He played well in roles he had never been in before like being the handler in the screen and roll and attacking his man on mismatches which we never saw too much before.

He played well for long stretches and had a couple of dominant performances, the one against the Heat comes to mind.

He absolutely took a dive in efficiency at the end of the season but not everything can be measured statistically. He grew as a basketball player. His issue is his inconsistency.

He probably played more with the ball in his hands this year. I agree with that. However the opposite is true. He was one of the 5 worst pick and roll players in the league (counting players who initiated at least 4 a game and played at least 50 games).

The only player worse than him was Josh Giddey, a 120lb rookie. So quite literally he did almost the worst in the whole league. Giddey turned it over so much he passed him in the end. But he actually scored with better efficiency when he didn't turn it over.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler/#!?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GP*G*50:POSS*G*3.9&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=-1



He did not play well in that role, especially if you take his free throw shooting into account. So you say words like well, and you are not correct. I watched the games and saw a PnR ball handler with

a) no team respecting his ability to shoot off the dribble behind the screen
b) lack of explosion to get the defender (switched or not) behind his shoulder
c) lack of ability to finish over a phone book when he kept, beat the defense and was met with help
d) average passing out of it, which is hard to judge when the defense just goes under and laughs at your jumper

All I’m saying is that RJ’s good play during the season shouldn’t be completely dismissed. He showed potential at times to be more than what his numbers show. If he makes zero improvement on his jumper or free throw this off season then ofc the kid isn’t worth anywhere near the max. But he showed promise and is known for his work ethic. Not sure yet how terrible Butlers numbers were before he peaked that one summer but it wouldn’t be the craziest thing if RJ finally put it together this off season.

[Capn'O]

$150million - $200million.

5 years into $150M = $30/year. I don’t think RJ is a $30M/year player. Do you?

It's what I see happening.

[Chanel Bomber]

This is the type of post you make when you don't watch games.

Or the kind you make when you aren't drunk in your chair thinking RJ is making shots, when he's just getting blocked by Grant Williams over and over.



So walk us through how RJ got "better" last year? He was a far worse shooter, and he was even worse against the league average (which accounts for better shooting in empty gyms for fake stars like Foolius).

Is it because he "goT twenTy a gAmE!!"?

Oh no nedleeds you're wrong. It's all Mitchs fault. RJ fails to convert over literally one defender after having received a screen before all of his drives because of Mitch. RJ misses his 3 pt shots because of Mitch. You know, cuz using the same argument Mitch mustve drawn his defender all the way out to the 3pt line st the same time as he kept his defender in the lane due to his own lack of a 3 pointer. If you follow multidimensional theory both can take place at the same time. And I guess the reason RJ cannot truly be the alpha must be because Mitch must be taking all of his shot attempts as well.

None of this could possibly be RJs fault. Not our number 3 pick.

Thats the crux of the issue.

Folks placed their hopes on the highest pick since Patrick Ewing in an offseason where everything went wrong for us. Fair. Desperate, but fair. I was certainly a believer.

But folks are now struggling to adjust to new information i.e. the overwhelming statistical evidence that he sucks as an NBA player. Enter cognitive dissonance.

It's hard to let go of a delusion when it's all you have to hold onto to tell yourself it's worth following the team. So then it's all about displacement to protect this idea. It's a defense mechanism. Nobody's holding back RJ - which is not to say that RJ grew in the absolute perfect environment, but very few high lottery picks do. It's a natural phenomenon.

[nedleeds]

He played well in roles he had never been in before like being the handler in the screen and roll and attacking his man on mismatches which we never saw too much before.

He played well for long stretches and had a couple of dominant performances, the one against the Heat comes to mind.

He absolutely took a dive in efficiency at the end of the season but not everything can be measured statistically. He grew as a basketball player. His issue is his inconsistency.

He probably played more with the ball in his hands this year. I agree with that. However the opposite is true. He was one of the 5 worst pick and roll players in the league (counting players who initiated at least 4 a game and played at least 50 games).

The only player worse than him was Josh Giddey, a 120lb rookie. So quite literally he did almost the worst in the whole league. Giddey turned it over so much he passed him in the end. But he actually scored with better efficiency when he didn't turn it over.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/ball-handler/#!?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=GP*G*50:POSS*G*3.9&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=-1



He did not play well in that role, especially if you take his free throw shooting into account. So you say words like well, and you are not correct. I watched the games and saw a PnR ball handler with

a) no team respecting his ability to shoot off the dribble behind the screen
b) lack of explosion to get the defender (switched or not) behind his shoulder
c) lack of ability to finish over a phone book when he kept, beat the defense and was met with help
d) average passing out of it, which is hard to judge when the defense just goes under and laughs at your jumper

All I’m saying is that RJ’s good play during the season shouldn’t be completely dismissed. He showed potential at times to be more than what his numbers show. If he makes zero improvement on his jumper or free throw this off season then ofc the kid isn’t worth anywhere near the max. But he showed promise and is known for his work ethic. Not sure yet how terrible Butlers numbers were before he peaked that one summer but it wouldn’t be the craziest thing if RJ finally put it together this off season.

I agree that he seems to work hard, I agree that crazier leaps have happened.

I think it's highly unlikely. Butler is a better natural athlete and his "leap Summer" happened after his age 24 season.

Honestly, just shooting 85% from the line would make him an average starter. He can't just become fast, quick or an elite leaper -- I'd think he could do that, his form isn't broken.

[Chanel Bomber]

Damn

The details (didn't have time to post them earlier):

2021-22
With Rose: 50.7 TS% and 24.3 USG
Without Rose: 51.1 TS% and 27.0 USG

2020-21
With Rose: 53.9 TS% and 21.7 USG
Without Rose: 55.9 TS% and 22.6 USG

Damn I thought he'd benefit from a good PG---maybe the additional spacing that Brunson provides opens up the lane some.....

We'll see.

The best-case scenario (if we keep RJ - who absolutely should not get an extension this summer) is that the Knicks run their offense through Brunson and Randle/Mitch, and RJ is moved off the ball entirely and he fulfills his destiny as a C&S 3-point shooter (and occasional driver) while improving from the corners.

That would get this front office a better idea of what he's actually worth - which I evaluate at around $10 million a year maximum. He can't be asked to create.

[moocow007]

$150million - $200million.

5 years into $150M = $30/year. I don’t think RJ is a $30M/year player. Do you?

Right now he's not a $30 million per player. As a realist (what I general consider myself) I don't know that he has the type of upside to become a near max player either. Yeah yeah "how dare you say that!!!".

[bearadonisdna]

Brunson territory , it will likely be fair but maybe not of value to team like Knicks who ruined their off-season investing in poor lineups.

[KnicksNext]

Read on Twitter

If RJ gets more than this contract I would legit be pissed if I was Bridges. RJ is not more valuable than Mikal.

EDIT: I realize teams (of course) are giving out higher contracts than in 10/21, Which is sickening in it's own right.

Holy **** Mikal is a good shooter.

Obviously Bridges contributes in a lot more ways than shooting. He is definitely the top of player you want on a championship because of all the intangibles he brings to the table. I would easily take him over RJ.

[cgmw]

Or the kind you make when you aren't drunk in your chair thinking RJ is making shots, when he's just getting blocked by Grant Williams over and over.



So walk us through how RJ got "better" last year? He was a far worse shooter, and he was even worse against the league average (which accounts for better shooting in empty gyms for fake stars like Foolius).

Is it because he "goT twenTy a gAmE!!"?

Oh no nedleeds you're wrong. It's all Mitchs fault. RJ fails to convert over literally one defender after having received a screen before all of his drives because of Mitch. RJ misses his 3 pt shots because of Mitch. You know, cuz using the same argument Mitch mustve drawn his defender all the way out to the 3pt line st the same time as he kept his defender in the lane due to his own lack of a 3 pointer. If you follow multidimensional theory both can take place at the same time. And I guess the reason RJ cannot truly be the alpha must be because Mitch must be taking all of his shot attempts as well.

None of this could possibly be RJs fault. Not our number 3 pick.

Thats the crux of the issue.

Folks placed their hopes on the highest pick since Patrick Ewing in an offseason where everything went wrong for us. Fair. Desperate, but fair. I was certainly a believer.

But folks are now struggling to adjust to new information i.e. the overwhelming statistical evidence that he sucks as an NBA player. Enter cognitive dissonance.

It's hard to let go of a delusion when it's all you have to hold onto to tell yourself it's worth following the team. So then it's all about displacement to protect this idea. It's a defense mechanism. Nobody's holding back RJ - which is not to say that RJ grew in the absolute perfect environment, but very few high lottery picks do. It's a natural phenomenon.

Dude, you are a menace

But hats off to the commitment. At this point no exaggeration to call it zealotry. Pretty much any thread for two years now that mentions RJ turns into Chanel zealously out to prove empirically that a 20, 21, and now 22 y/o cannot/will not improve and that anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

You and RJ seem to have similar work ethics. I can only hope he works on his layup package as hard as you’ve worked on your RJ slander.

[KnicksNext]

Damn

The details (didn't have time to post them earlier):

2021-22
With Rose: 50.7 TS% and 24.3 USG
Without Rose: 51.1 TS% and 27.0 USG

2020-21
With Rose: 53.9 TS% and 21.7 USG
Without Rose: 55.9 TS% and 22.6 USG

Damn I thought he'd benefit from a good PG---maybe the additional spacing that Brunson provides opens up the lane some.....

Opens the lane for his sh*t to get swatted back in his face

[god shammgod]

The details (didn't have time to post them earlier):

2021-22
With Rose: 50.7 TS% and 24.3 USG
Without Rose: 51.1 TS% and 27.0 USG

2020-21
With Rose: 53.9 TS% and 21.7 USG
Without Rose: 55.9 TS% and 22.6 USG

Damn I thought he'd benefit from a good PG---maybe the additional spacing that Brunson provides opens up the lane some.....

Opens the lane for his sh*t to get swatted back in his face

it'll be rj in the corner and brunson driving now. as it should. if we're being really honest, that's the only thing he's shown to be capable of in the nba. hitting the corner 3. and brunson is way better at getting into the paint and getting a shot off.

[HarthorneWingo]

$150million - $200million.

5 years into $150M = $30/year. I don’t think RJ is a $30M/year player. Do you?

It's what I see happening.

Well, that wasn't the question, my friend.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

No extension and the Knicks should trade him now whilst there's still youthful promise.

RJ plus either Randle on his own or Fournier and Reddish for Durant works, just drench the Nets in those crappy FRPs that will still certainly come to life in 2025

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

But basically ned, Kamp & Chanel seem to have the topic adequately covered.