Knicks Future

[Jalen Bluntson]

Mikal's trade value must be very low now. So so performance, flight risk, and asking for a big contract.

It's very hard to trade him now. We will not recover the picks. His stats are not very good. His contract is ending and he will ask for a big contract.

Very low value? Only around here.m

[Richard4444]

It's very hard to trade him now. We will not recover the picks. His stats are not very good. His contract is ending and he will ask for a big contract.

Very low value? Only around here.m

I mean lower value than we paid for him. I don't think anyone would pay us 5 picks or so.

In addition to that, he has only 1 year left in the contract and might demand a big raise and he can refuse to extend with teams that he does not want to play.

I don't think its smart to trade him for less we paid for.

[Luv those Knicks]

I know most of us are disappointed with recent loss.
But in reality team is in best position in like 30 years?
Let's not get too greedy.

I think there was a brief window last year, when everyone was healthy. Before Randle's injury, after the OG trade, they had 2 centers, a true PF in Randle, OG at SF, Brunson. DDV and Hart. McBride was the 7th man not the 6th. It was a well balanced team that did go on something like a 15-2 run.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done the moves they did. Bridges & especially Kat make them better, but they did lose not only Randle to get Kat, but they lost Donte and they lost I-Hart to free agency. So they lost a lot. Losing I-Hart hurts. Moving OG to PF makes the less physical. They had a window last year where they looked quite good before injuries hurt them.

That said, I agree with you. They don't look as good as OKC, Boston or even the Cavs, but they could be 4th and if all goes well and they get Mitch back and everyone is healthy for the playoffs, they could do some damage. This is as close as they've been in a long time and I think that's great. It's something to be enjoyed.

[8516knicks]

So many variables.

We need to know if KAT is the awesome KAT we saw or the possibly injured one. We need to know if OG can play at least 60 games and most of the playoffs. We need to see Mikal be the 40 pt guy more often than the beginning of the season guy. JB and Hart are the most consistently good keepers. And Mitch - is he going to play just 30-40 games a season? We can't afford TWO guys like that.

And we will need an upgrade at coach. Thank u Thibs for getting us this far, but we'll need someone to correct our current O and D flaws. Someone who can adjust mid-game to the other team.

But the single biggest thing is KAT being the best KAT. And next is Mitch either playing or moving on, not rehabbing 3/4 of the season. Even a more flexible innovative coach is far behind those two factors.

[Luv those Knicks]

were back on hating on Mikal?

damn

I don't know what to expect from Mikal. The Knicks offered to extend him last summer, but it was a low offer and he said no. I think he was smart to say no. But I don't know what will happen this summer. Certainly there will be negotiations with him and maybe they explore trading him. The problem with trading Mikal is that as of right now, NY is over the first apron going into the off-season.

They could trade Mitch for a smaller salary and get under the first apron. They might also need to release McCullar. I'm not sure how that works, but the 10 players currently under contract next year Kat, OGA, Brunson, Bridges, Hart, Mitch, Deuce, Dadiet, Kolek, Huk comes to 196.31 million. The first apron next year is 195.946. That's with keeping Huk, which I think is a given and releasing McCullar. If they move Mitch for a smaller contract, then they can go under the first Apron. That seems reasonably possible.

Then the question they have to answer is, do they extend Bridges into 2026-27 and beyond and that would put them up near the aprons again. I have no idea what they'll do or waht Bridges expects contract wise. But as an expiring deal, Bridges would be tradable, similar to how Randle was tradable last summer. This becomes a team building question. I have no idea what NY will do.

I think, for now, they obviously keep Dadiet, Kolek & Huk for depth and those 3 could take a step forward in improving the team's depth next year. How much they help remains to be seen.

McCullar is close to a vet minimum player, but I could see them offering him a 2-way deal next year, not a full contract. I think a lot depends on whether he plays with the club this year and what they think of him.

They have a late 2nd round pick this year (Memphis, currently 55 I think). and (don't quote me on this because it's a mess), but I think 3 2nds in 2026 to go with their first, which they currently can't trade, but will be able to trade next year. They could load up the back of the roster with 2nd round picks again this summer like they did last summer. 2nd round picks are no different than guys like Jacob Toppin or Landry Shamet, so, I don't have a problem with that.

They also have the Wizards pick, which could turn into a 2026 first if the Wizards land Cooper Flagg and win a few games. Top 8 protected. I doubt they trade that pick until they see how Washington looks next year. It probably turns into a 2027 & 2028 first rounder, but for now, it's a wait and see what happens.

But the real question is, who they trade Mitch for, which I assume happens. Then what do they do with Mikal. Then, how do they fill out the rest of the roster with limited space and a 2nd round pick. Do they bring back Payne & Precious, who they probably release, and then it's a market decision whether another team offers those guys more money than NY wants to pay. How do the negotiations go with Bridges. I could see them bringing Delon Wright back if he works out and Maybe Jacob Topin again, because they seem to like him. Do they bring back McCullar, who's played some d-league, but we haven't seen him yet. Draft write-ups don't mean that much.

And I think, maybe, they have a small MLE that they could look at free agency for, but that's like 5 million, so that won't be much.

They're kind of limited.

Also, with all the talk about Thibs. Was Bryant their defensive guru last year? I know a lot of people were upset when NY lost him to Cleveland. I think Leon and Thibs are smart enough to know that they should be on the look out for a defensive assistant coach this summer. I don't think Thibs is as cluseless as everyone says.

All that said, I could see an off-season like the off-season 2023 when NY didn't do much. They had discussions but didn't do much in the way of moves, though they got busy doing trades during the season, but didn't do much that off-season.

It's early. Gotta seem how they do in the playoffs first. Then see what they might get for Mitch in the off-season. If everything breaks right, they could begin to have a bench with Dadiet, Kolek, Huk and maybe McCullar, but I'm not super-optimistic there. Hopeful maybe, but not optimistic at least not for next year.

I'm kind of all-over the place, but there are a lot of ways this could go and they are limited with the aprons and with just one late 2nd round pick and no tradable first rounders.

For anyone who wants to look at the salary numbers:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/cap/_/year/2025

[WargamesX]

We definitely overpaid for Mikal but that is based on the fact the Lakers robbed the Mavs for Luka. Like I hope the Lakers wore ski masks to hide their identity through that whole transaction.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's very hard to trade him now. We will not recover the picks. His stats are not very good. His contract is ending and he will ask for a big contract.

Very low value? Only around here.m

I mean lower value than we paid for him. I don't think anyone would pay us 5 picks or so.

In addition to that, he has only 1 year left in the contract and might demand a big raise and he can refuse to extend with teams that he does not want to play.

I don't think its smart to trade him for less we paid for.

We aren't getting 5 FRPs but, that doesn't mean his value is very low. His stats are not very good? He's an efficient 18ppg and he plays defense. Why we are talking about trading him at all after 3.5 months is what's even crazier than the low value/not very good stats comments. People need to slow down. This idea that a top 5 team needs to start selling the farm is really ridiculous. People talking about KAT trades and Mikal trades are not built for winning at all. Things take time. We haven't even finished one season with the team but, people are done already? Calm down folks. It's not that bad around here. How soon people forget what this team was like for 20+ years.

[Lord Commander]

Thibs ain't going nowhere. Ya'll are gonna be bitterly disappointed.

[sol537]

Very low value? Only around here.m

I mean lower value than we paid for him. I don't think anyone would pay us 5 picks or so.

In addition to that, he has only 1 year left in the contract and might demand a big raise and he can refuse to extend with teams that he does not want to play.

I don't think its smart to trade him for less we paid for.

We aren't getting 5 FRPs but, that doesn't mean his value is very low. His stats are not very good? He's an efficient 18ppg and he plays defense. Why we are talking about trading him at all after 3.5 months is what's even crazier than the low value/not very good stats comments. People need to slow down. This idea that a top 5 team needs to start selling the farm is really ridiculous. People talking about KAT trades and Mikal trades are not built for winning at all. Things take time. We haven't even finished one season with the team but, people are done already? Calm down folks. It's not that bad around here. How soon people forget what this team was like for 20+ years.

Mikal is a border line all star who is expected to extend this summer on a fair deal. Maybe he’s not worth all those picks but if he and Brunson help us be a top 3 Eastern team for the next 5-7 years then it’s all been worth it.

Maybe we sneak one title through. You never know. I don’t think KAT is the answer but I’m a believer in Mikal, OG, and Brunson (and Hart off the bench). We’ve got a nice core entering their prime. Would love to see a Thibs upgrade (Dan Hurley?) and a KAT upgrade (Giannis?).

[WargamesX]

Very low value? Only around here.m

I mean lower value than we paid for him. I don't think anyone would pay us 5 picks or so.

In addition to that, he has only 1 year left in the contract and might demand a big raise and he can refuse to extend with teams that he does not want to play.

I don't think its smart to trade him for less we paid for.

We aren't getting 5 FRPs but, that doesn't mean his value is very low. His stats are not very good? He's an efficient 18ppg and he plays defense. Why we are talking about trading him at all after 3.5 months is what's even crazier than the low value/not very good stats comments. People need to slow down. This idea that a top 5 team needs to start selling the farm is really ridiculous. People talking about KAT trades and Mikal trades are not built for winning at all. Things take time. We haven't even finished one season with the team but, people are done already? Calm down folks. It's not that bad around here. How soon people forget what this team was like for 20+ years.

You mean how quickly people forget where this team was 6 years ago...

[WargamesX]

Thibs ain't going nowhere. Ya'll are gonna be bitterly disappointed.

You are right and I am. Thibs is a florr raiser coach but so far during his career he hasn't even gotten near the ceiling let alone over it. I think we would have to see a total playoff collapse this year for it to happen which is unrealistic or two back to back disappointing playoffs for a more realistic scenario for him being let go.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I mean lower value than we paid for him. I don't think anyone would pay us 5 picks or so.

In addition to that, he has only 1 year left in the contract and might demand a big raise and he can refuse to extend with teams that he does not want to play.

I don't think its smart to trade him for less we paid for.

We aren't getting 5 FRPs but, that doesn't mean his value is very low. His stats are not very good? He's an efficient 18ppg and he plays defense. Why we are talking about trading him at all after 3.5 months is what's even crazier than the low value/not very good stats comments. People need to slow down. This idea that a top 5 team needs to start selling the farm is really ridiculous. People talking about KAT trades and Mikal trades are not built for winning at all. Things take time. We haven't even finished one season with the team but, people are done already? Calm down folks. It's not that bad around here. How soon people forget what this team was like for 20+ years.

You mean how quickly people forget where this team was 6 years ago...

Try 3 years ago. We had one playoff season prior to that but, the Kemba/Guano season was terrible too. It has been a little over 2.5 seasons since we started building this team with Brunson. The only player left from the garbage Knicks is Mitch. We are a top 4-5 team in the league. I'm here for it all.

[HopelessKnick]

Defense wins championships. Look at the Eagles.

This KAT-Brunson-Hart experience is doomed to fail. Send Hart to the bench and send KAT out in a trade for a 2-way guy. You can hide one guy on defense but you can't hide 2-3.

While I get your general sentiment and tend to agree with the defense first sentiment, I believe history actually suggests otherwise. There may be exceptions to this (Pistons, Spurs) but I believe if you look at past champions, especially since 2000, you'll find that most champions were elite offensively (top 5 or even top 3) while being good but not great defensively (like top 10). I remember the 3-peat Lakers were like that, the Mavericks were like that. I believe the Heat and Warriors as well. Denver certainly wasn't elite defensively.

In any case, I think you need to give the team 2 full seasons before engaging in any chore-changing trades. Anything else would be really way too rushed. I always defended the NY fanbase as passionate but over the years I have come to appreciate the often criticism that NY is a tough place to be in because there is very little patience. We are sitting on a 36-18 record and literally only two teams have made us look bad---Boston and OKC. And we haven't faced either of them (nor any team this season) with a basic ingredient of a successful basketball team, namely an elite rim protector. Patience guys, patience.

[HopelessKnick]

One remark on the Bridges trade. While I can understand some fans having expected a bit more (me included) we have to remind ourselves of this basic fact: We likely gave up 5 late first rounders. The way the NBA is currently going, it seems almost as if teams prefer 2nd rounders to late first rounders. The price was definitely steep but Bridges holds value in this league.

Memphis offered 4 FRPs at the previous deadline but Brooklyn declined it back then. I'm sure that if you offered Bridges to Memphis for 4 FRPs they would likely bite again. Ask yourself the question how many late FRPs, in the 22-30 range would you need to be willing to trade away Bridges. I personally know I wouldn't give him up for 3 late FRPs. 4? Still not really convinced. IMO, even if we argue the price was too steep, we are likely talking one late FRP too steep, not really much more.

[Luv those Knicks]

One remark on the Bridges trade. While I can understand some fans having expected a bit more (me included) we have to remind ourselves of this basic fact: We likely gave up 5 late first rounders. The way the NBA is currently going, it seems almost as if teams prefer 2nd rounders to late first rounders. The price was definitely steep but Bridges holds value in this league.

Memphis offered 4 FRPs at the previous deadline but Brooklyn declined it back then. I'm sure that if you offered Bridges to Memphis for 4 FRPs they would likely bite again. Ask yourself the question how many late FRPs, in the 22-30 range would you need to be willing to trade away Bridges. I personally know I wouldn't give him up for 3 late FRPs. 4? Still not really convinced. IMO, even if we argue the price was too steep, we are likely talking one late FRP too steep, not really much more.

The Wizards would be the exception to this having recently traded 4 future 2nds for what looks like the last pick in the first round this summer. NY also traded the #24 pick last year for 5 future 2nds. Then they traded 3 future 2nds for the #34 pick to draft Kolek. Late first round picks have value when there's a player still on board that a team wants, so I would say that it depends. Overall, NY has done well turning first round picks into extra picks and 2nds later on, so there was some value there, but there's a also a limited amount of youth that a team can carry.

But I mostly agree with you. Those picks and pick swaps don't have a ton of value, unless NY's record goes south in a few years.

[HopelessKnick]

One remark on the Bridges trade. While I can understand some fans having expected a bit more (me included) we have to remind ourselves of this basic fact: We likely gave up 5 late first rounders. The way the NBA is currently going, it seems almost as if teams prefer 2nd rounders to late first rounders. The price was definitely steep but Bridges holds value in this league.

Memphis offered 4 FRPs at the previous deadline but Brooklyn declined it back then. I'm sure that if you offered Bridges to Memphis for 4 FRPs they would likely bite again. Ask yourself the question how many late FRPs, in the 22-30 range would you need to be willing to trade away Bridges. I personally know I wouldn't give him up for 3 late FRPs. 4? Still not really convinced. IMO, even if we argue the price was too steep, we are likely talking one late FRP too steep, not really much more.

The Wizards would be the exception to this having recently traded 4 future 2nds for what looks like the last pick in the first round this summer. NY also traded the #24 pick last year for 5 future 2nds. Then they traded 3 future 2nds for the #34 pick to draft Kolek. Late first round picks have value when there's a player still on board that a team wants, so I would say that it depends. Overall, NY has done well turning first round picks into extra picks and 2nds later on, so there was some value there, but there's a also a limited amount of youth that a team can carry.

But I mostly agree with you. Those picks and pick swaps don't have a ton of value, unless NY's record goes south in a few years.

Talking about the Wizards---Brogdon could be a potential target for the tax payer exception at 6mill. I think he could still be a nice 7th/8th man, but the problem remain his injuries. He has had an off year and just turned 32, so he may not get much better offers. Given his injury history he would still be a risk but maybe low risk high reward.

[sol537]

Defense wins championships. Look at the Eagles.

This KAT-Brunson-Hart experience is doomed to fail. Send Hart to the bench and send KAT out in a trade for a 2-way guy. You can hide one guy on defense but you can't hide 2-3.

While I get your general sentiment and tend to agree with the defense first sentiment, I believe history actually suggests otherwise. There may be exceptions to this (Pistons, Spurs) but I believe if you look at past champions, especially since 2000, you'll find that most champions were elite offensively (top 5 or even top 3) while being good but not great defensively (like top 10). I remember the 3-peat Lakers were like that, the Mavericks were like that. I believe the Heat and Warriors as well. Denver certainly wasn't elite defensively.

In any case, I think you need to give the team 2 full seasons before engaging in any chore-changing trades. Anything else would be really way too rushed. I always defended the NY fanbase as passionate but over the years I have come to appreciate the often criticism that NY is a tough place to be in because there is very little patience. We are sitting on a 36-18 record and literally only two teams have made us look bad---Boston and OKC. And we haven't faced either of them (nor any team this season) with a basic ingredient of a successful basketball team, namely an elite rim protector. Patience guys, patience.

I think Denver was the only "weak" defensive team in the last 10-20 years. All the other squads had no more than one defensive black hole that I could recall. EG Curry was often targeted but even he played decent defense for some of those runs. My estimate is that every finals winner other than Denver had a top 8 defense with no more than one black hole on defense. We have two... and neither of our guys are Jokic level. Maybe it could work if we move Hart to the bench and get another OG-level elite defender/rebounder 3&D guy in the starting line-up. Maybe. Finding those guys is really hard.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Defense wins championships. Look at the Eagles.

This KAT-Brunson-Hart experience is doomed to fail. Send Hart to the bench and send KAT out in a trade for a 2-way guy. You can hide one guy on defense but you can't hide 2-3.

While I get your general sentiment and tend to agree with the defense first sentiment, I believe history actually suggests otherwise. There may be exceptions to this (Pistons, Spurs) but I believe if you look at past champions, especially since 2000, you'll find that most champions were elite offensively (top 5 or even top 3) while being good but not great defensively (like top 10). I remember the 3-peat Lakers were like that, the Mavericks were like that. I believe the Heat and Warriors as well. Denver certainly wasn't elite defensively.

In any case, I think you need to give the team 2 full seasons before engaging in any chore-changing trades. Anything else would be really way too rushed. I always defended the NY fanbase as passionate but over the years I have come to appreciate the often criticism that NY is a tough place to be in because there is very little patience. We are sitting on a 36-18 record and literally only two teams have made us look bad---Boston and OKC. And we haven't faced either of them (nor any team this season) with a basic ingredient of a successful basketball team, namely an elite rim protector. Patience guys, patience.

I think Denver was the only "weak" defensive team in the last 10-20 years. All the other squads had no more than one defensive black hole that I could recall. EG Curry was often targeted but even he played decent defense for some of those runs. My estimate is that every finals winner other than Denver had a top 8 defense with no more than one black hole on defense. We have two... and neither of our guys are Jokic level. Maybe it could work if we move Hart to the bench and get another OG-level elite defender/rebounder 3&D guy in the starting line-up. Maybe. Finding those guys is really hard.

Kyrie and Love in 2016, they were 10th defensively but those two were targeted. Also, our net rating is still top 5 which is where you want to be, Cavs net rating in 2016 was +6.3 ours is +6.1. The Cavs that year were behind the Spurs and Warriors, by a similar margin as we are behind the Cavs/Thunder, obviously we don't have LeBron, but if we would run some different stuff on defense at times we'd be better. When's the last time you ever saw us in a zone just to throw something different at an opponent?

[sol537]

While I get your general sentiment and tend to agree with the defense first sentiment, I believe history actually suggests otherwise. There may be exceptions to this (Pistons, Spurs) but I believe if you look at past champions, especially since 2000, you'll find that most champions were elite offensively (top 5 or even top 3) while being good but not great defensively (like top 10). I remember the 3-peat Lakers were like that, the Mavericks were like that. I believe the Heat and Warriors as well. Denver certainly wasn't elite defensively.

In any case, I think you need to give the team 2 full seasons before engaging in any chore-changing trades. Anything else would be really way too rushed. I always defended the NY fanbase as passionate but over the years I have come to appreciate the often criticism that NY is a tough place to be in because there is very little patience. We are sitting on a 36-18 record and literally only two teams have made us look bad---Boston and OKC. And we haven't faced either of them (nor any team this season) with a basic ingredient of a successful basketball team, namely an elite rim protector. Patience guys, patience.

I think Denver was the only "weak" defensive team in the last 10-20 years. All the other squads had no more than one defensive black hole that I could recall. EG Curry was often targeted but even he played decent defense for some of those runs. My estimate is that every finals winner other than Denver had a top 8 defense with no more than one black hole on defense. We have two... and neither of our guys are Jokic level. Maybe it could work if we move Hart to the bench and get another OG-level elite defender/rebounder 3&D guy in the starting line-up. Maybe. Finding those guys is really hard.

Kyrie and Love in 2016, they were 10th defensively but those two were targeted. Also, our net rating is still top 5 which is where you want to be, Cavs net rating in 2016 was +6.3 ours is +6.1. The Cavs that year were behind the Spurs and Warriors, by a similar margin as we are behind the Cavs/Thunder, obviously we don't have LeBron, but if we would run some different stuff on defense at times we'd be better. When's the last time you ever saw us in a zone just to throw something different at an opponent?

You said it... we don't have Lebron. And those Cavs needed the Warriors to implode (Draymond) to win that finals. We don't have a Lebron or a Jokic. Not impossible, but our margin to victory is slimmer because of our defense and lack of coaching creativity. Still... I'm hopeful.

[HopelessKnick]

I think Denver was the only "weak" defensive team in the last 10-20 years. All the other squads had no more than one defensive black hole that I could recall. EG Curry was often targeted but even he played decent defense for some of those runs. My estimate is that every finals winner other than Denver had a top 8 defense with no more than one black hole on defense. We have two... and neither of our guys are Jokic level. Maybe it could work if we move Hart to the bench and get another OG-level elite defender/rebounder 3&D guy in the starting line-up. Maybe. Finding those guys is really hard.

Kyrie and Love in 2016, they were 10th defensively but those two were targeted. Also, our net rating is still top 5 which is where you want to be, Cavs net rating in 2016 was +6.3 ours is +6.1. The Cavs that year were behind the Spurs and Warriors, by a similar margin as we are behind the Cavs/Thunder, obviously we don't have LeBron, but if we would run some different stuff on defense at times we'd be better. When's the last time you ever saw us in a zone just to throw something different at an opponent?

You said it... we don't have Lebron. And those Cavs needed the Warriors to implode (Draymond) to win that finals. We don't have a Lebron or a Jokic. Not impossible, but our margin to victory is slimmer because of our defense and lack of coaching creativity. Still... I'm hopeful.

Lakers: I'm confident the 3-peat Lakers were like borderline top 10 in defense but top 3 in offense.
Cavs: Kyrie and Love with the Cavs.
Heat: The Heat had Ray Allen and Bosh who were rather not good at defense.

Denver: Denver really only had KCP and Gordon as strong defenders. Jokic, Murray and MPJ were rather not good. I actually think Denver resembles a bit our defensive make-up (Bridges-KCP; OG-Gordon). Elite offensive duo with Jokic and Murray. Obviously Jokic is in his own league but Brunson is also significantly better/more consistant than Murray IMO. And we have Hart as well which Denver didn't have. I actually think Denver overall--including Jokic's greatness--wasn't significantly more talented than we are. Especially not if you figure in Mitch as an elite defensive presence.

We are currently at the top offensively but only around 15th defensively....I think it is realistic to assume Mitch would punch us into the top 10 defensively which should in turn, at least in theory make us a pretty difficult out, even for Boston, Cleveland and OKC. I guess we'll see......