Thibs Thibs and More Thibs.

[Iron Mantis]

How are we supposed to win a title without a bench?

How are we supposed to have a bench if the coach won't play them?

our current bench guys want to leave because they don't get to play... Quality bench players will not sign with us because they know they won't play.... And if we trade for bench players, they'll eventually pull an Obi and request a trade, then hunt for revenge games against us in the playoffs...

If a team is serious about winning a championship, keeping Thibs as coach ensures there's no chance you can get you over the hump... He is hard capped at getting embarrassed in the ECF.

Have to thoroughly scout and assess the coaching talent pool, from first time coaches to well experienced coaches and make the change that is best for this team. It will require some risk, but losing is losing and keeping Thibs around you're not winning anything so there's really not much of a difference if you took the risk and it didn't work out.... Nevertheless, you have to try for the reward.

[Enzo954]

Damn pretty damning on Thibs---Teague says basically Thibs coaching tactics are ancient. Not surprisingly. All agree that if Carlisle and Thibs were switched on these teams the Knicks would have gone to the finals. Saying that the Knicks were the more talented team. Pretty much everything Thibs critics have been saying over and over again.

"He runs the offense like he still has Derrick Rose."

Watch on YouTube

This is exactly what I’m saying. This video is EXACTLY what I’m talking about, the league has changed, and when I watch it’s like the Knicks are stuck in mud on both ends of the court.
You got former players like Teague, KG, Pierce, who have played for Thibs that say he calls every play, he doesn’t allow other people to get a voice in, and runs offensive sets from the early 2000s. Let’s be honest, if we didn’t have Mikal and if we didn’t have KAT we would have been 3 wins less again this year and second round outs AGAIN. The league has changed, and the talent of this team has taken them beyond his handcuffing them. Yet people on here will rock out with the idea that he got us further that any other coach in the past.
It’s maddening man.

It almost reminds me of when Melo and a few others complained about Phil Jackson and his triangle nonsense. Sticking to what worked decades ago and refusing to adapt to the current NBA is a recipe for disaster. This is where Leon's and Brunson's friendship with Thibs will hurt us. We're stuck with a dinosaur and his old predictable ways of doing things.

[ctorres]

How are we supposed to win a title without a bench?

How are we supposed to have a bench if the coach won't play them?

our current bench guys want to leave because they don't get to play... Quality bench players will not sign with us because they know they won't play.... And if we trade for bench players, they'll eventually pull an Obi and request a trade, then hunt for revenge games against us in the playoffs...

If a team is serious about winning a championship, keeping Thibs as coach ensures there's no chance you can get you over the hump... He is hard capped at getting embarrassed in the ECF.

Have to thoroughly scout and assess the coaching talent pool, from first time coaches to well experienced coaches and make the change that is best for this team. It will require some risk, but losing is losing and keeping Thibs around you're not winning anything so there's really not much of a difference if you took the risk and it didn't work out.... Nevertheless, you have to try for the reward.

The Obi Toppin trade is sad especially

He got traded for two 2nd round picks.

Pacers won the trade. They traded for Obi and used him to beat us.

[seren]

I like Thibs as a person from all I read about him but this miracle will not work another season. We have the talent. I have no question about that. I look at Indiana bench and I don’t see that much of a difference than what we theoretically could put together had we have a whole season of trying different combinations, giving valuable time to younger players etc.

Take Obi. We couldn’t use him the way Indiana utilized him and it goes beyond the minutes. In fact, his minutes didn’t increase appreciably. But when he is on the floor, he is allowed to do things now. He runs every time even after made baskets because he knows he will get the ball. He doesn’t hesitate taking the open threes.

Now I go back to the last game. Delon Wright is a veteran. He took 2.5 threes a game in the playoffs last year in Miami. He made 60 percent of them. He is a career 35 percent shooter from three. He took two threes in game 6 and missed them both badly. Both were wide open. There were other possessions that he was wide open and he didn’t take the shot. I saw a lot of hesitation in his shots and that is why he missed those two. You ask yourself why does a veteran who was already in a similar position with other teams and didn’t show the same hesitation is so afraid to take the shot. And the answer is Thibs. He doesn’t trust his bench players and it impacts those players. They know there is an extremely short leash and Thibs will not hesitate to bench them after one mistake. We can’t build a winning team like this

[kNicksGmen]

How are we supposed to win a title without a bench?

How are we supposed to have a bench if the coach won't play them?

our current bench guys want to leave because they don't get to play... Quality bench players will not sign with us because they know they won't play.... And if we trade for bench players, they'll eventually pull an Obi and request a trade, then hunt for revenge games against us in the playoffs...

If a team is serious about winning a championship, keeping Thibs as coach ensures there's no chance you can get you over the hump... He is hard capped at getting embarrassed in the ECF.

Have to thoroughly scout and assess the coaching talent pool, from first time coaches to well experienced coaches and make the change that is best for this team. It will require some risk, but losing is losing and keeping Thibs around you're not winning anything so there's really not much of a difference if you took the risk and it didn't work out.... Nevertheless, you have to try for the reward.

The Obi Toppin trade is sad especially

He got traded for two 2nd round picks.

Pacers won the trade. They traded for Obi and used him to beat us.

he barely played calm down. he averaged 9/5 in 19 minutes. Still even that small of a role for 2 second rounders is great value.

[cgmw]

Damn pretty damning on Thibs---Teague says basically Thibs coaching tactics are ancient. Not surprisingly. All agree that if Carlisle and Thibs were switched on these teams the Knicks would have gone to the finals. Saying that the Knicks were the more talented team. Pretty much everything Thibs critics have been saying over and over again.

"He runs the offense like he still has Derrick Rose."

Watch on YouTube

Makes me wonder if Johnnie Bryant got fed up working alongside Thibs as an associate head coach. Bryant left NY to go to Cleveland to work with Kenny Atkinson and Donovan MItchell.

We also replaced Johnnie Bryant with Maurice Cheeks who is older than Thibs.

Older than Thibs and literally doesn’t speak to Thibs during games. The only assistants who ever even make eye contact (let alone speak) with him during games are 1) the replay guy and 2) his totally unqualified body men who bring him clip boards.

From tip off to final horn the only human beings Thibs speaks to are the 5 players on the court and the refs. Super unique among NBA coaches. Also unique — he complains about everything but never gets a Tech. It’s actually impressive.

[ctorres]

How are we supposed to win a title without a bench?

How are we supposed to have a bench if the coach won't play them?

our current bench guys want to leave because they don't get to play... Quality bench players will not sign with us because they know they won't play.... And if we trade for bench players, they'll eventually pull an Obi and request a trade, then hunt for revenge games against us in the playoffs...

If a team is serious about winning a championship, keeping Thibs as coach ensures there's no chance you can get you over the hump... He is hard capped at getting embarrassed in the ECF.

Have to thoroughly scout and assess the coaching talent pool, from first time coaches to well experienced coaches and make the change that is best for this team. It will require some risk, but losing is losing and keeping Thibs around you're not winning anything so there's really not much of a difference if you took the risk and it didn't work out.... Nevertheless, you have to try for the reward.

The Obi Toppin trade is sad especially

He got traded for two 2nd round picks.

Pacers won the trade. They traded for Obi and used him to beat us.

he barely played calm down. he averaged 9/5 in 19 minutes. Still even that small of a role for 2 second rounders is great value.

19 mpg in the playoffs is a pretty sizeable role off the bench and he hit a game winning three on us

I will say he wasn't worth keeping at the $13 to $16 million a season he is making with the Pacers.

We had Achiuwa who could do most of what Toppin could do, EXCEPT for hitting threes consistently which is absolutely crucial and the reason why he only got minutes for us as a 3rd string Center.

[thebuzzardman]

Also, that tweet from Bondy was alarming. What if we cannot get bench talent because guys are wary of how Thibs uses his bench? This is a legit concern.

If the Knicks FO looks at analytics and comes to the conclusion the Knicks weren't high enough on 3 point volume (Thibs problem) and then find out that this rumor is credible, that's ANOTHER Thibs problem, one that impacts them doing their job.

Might be the straw that breaks the ogre's back.

[ctorres]

Older than Thibs and literally doesn’t speak to Thibs during games. The only assistants who ever even make eye contact (let alone speak) with him during games are 1) the replay guy and 2) his totally unqualified body men who bring him clip boards.

From tip off to final horn the only human beings Thibs speaks to are the 5 players on the court and the refs. Super unique among NBA coaches. Also unique — he complains about everything but never gets a Tech. It’s actually impressive.

Daniel Brady, Rick Brunson, Mark Bryant, Maurice Cheeks, Darren Erman, Andy Greer, Othella Harrington

Daniel Brady - little information on him

Rick Brunson - former Thibs player

Mark Bryant - old

Maurice Cheeks - old

Darren Erman - from Wikipedia: On April 6, 2014, it was announced the Warriors had decided to part ways with Erman, citing a "violation of company policy" for having secretly recorded conversations between players, coaches, and front office staff.

Andy Greer - old

Othella Harrington - former Thibs player

[MrDollarBills]

How are we supposed to win a title without a bench?

How are we supposed to have a bench if the coach won't play them?

our current bench guys want to leave because they don't get to play... Quality bench players will not sign with us because they know they won't play.... And if we trade for bench players, they'll eventually pull an Obi and request a trade, then hunt for revenge games against us in the playoffs...

If a team is serious about winning a championship, keeping Thibs as coach ensures there's no chance you can get you over the hump... He is hard capped at getting embarrassed in the ECF.

Have to thoroughly scout and assess the coaching talent pool, from first time coaches to well experienced coaches and make the change that is best for this team. It will require some risk, but losing is losing and keeping Thibs around you're not winning anything so there's really not much of a difference if you took the risk and it didn't work out.... Nevertheless, you have to try for the reward.

The Obi Toppin trade is sad especially

He got traded for two 2nd round picks.

Pacers won the trade. They traded for Obi and used him to beat us.

he barely played calm down. he averaged 9/5 in 19 minutes. Still even that small of a role for 2 second rounders is great value.

I still say trading him for two seconds was poor value for a serviceable rotation piece.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Again, I point out Game 6 close out versus Boston when the game was well in hand and JB had to go up to Tom to tell him to take the starters out. That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen, it was like Tom was locked into a trance or something.

That's not normal man. I dunno what else to say at this point.

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

[thebuzzardman]

Older than Thibs and literally doesn’t speak to Thibs during games. The only assistants who ever even make eye contact (let alone speak) with him during games are 1) the replay guy and 2) his totally unqualified body men who bring him clip boards.

From tip off to final horn the only human beings Thibs speaks to are the 5 players on the court and the refs. Super unique among NBA coaches. Also unique — he complains about everything but never gets a Tech. It’s actually impressive.

Daniel Brady, Rick Brunson, Mark Bryant, Maurice Cheeks, Darren Erman, Andy Greer, Othella Harrington

Daniel Brady - little information on him

Rick Brunson - former Thibs player

Mark Bryant - old

Maurice Cheeks - old

Darren Erman - from Wikipedia: On April 6, 2014, it was announced the Warriors had decided to part ways with Erman, citing a "violation of company policy" for having secretly recorded conversations between players, coaches, and front office staff.

Andy Greer - old

Othella Harrington - former Thibs player

Erman is the ex lawyer who fought his way into the league by being an assistant coach for the G-League Celtics and wound up a valuable assistant on the Rivers chip team that had Thibs on it.

He's relatively young. Not Thibs old.

[ctorres]

I still say trading him for two seconds was poor value for a serviceable rotation piece.

I am sure the Knicks then thought they could make up for the Obi trade by getting his brother Jacob for the minimum, thinking Jacob could do everything Obi could

I assume signing Jacob was done as a way to mend the relationship with Obi's agent

[8516knicks]

Damn pretty damning on Thibs---Teague says basically Thibs coaching tactics are ancient. Not surprisingly. All agree that if Carlisle and Thibs were switched on these teams the Knicks would have gone to the finals. Saying that the Knicks were the more talented team. Pretty much everything Thibs critics have been saying over and over again.

"He runs the offense like he still has Derrick Rose."

Watch on YouTube

This is exactly what I’m saying. This video is EXACTLY what I’m talking about, the league has changed, and when I watch it’s like the Knicks are stuck in mud on both ends of the court.
You got former players like Teague, KG, Pierce, who have played for Thibs that say he calls every play, he doesn’t allow other people to get a voice in, and runs offensive sets from the early 2000s. Let’s be honest, if we didn’t have Mikal and if we didn’t have KAT we would have been 3 wins less again this year and second round outs AGAIN. The league has changed, and the talent of this team has taken them beyond his handcuffing them. Yet people on here will rock out with the idea that he got us further that any other coach in the past.
It’s maddening man.

Fascinating also in that their discussion pretty much mirrors the board here. So you'd think discussions in the FO also do. People love Thibs but, especially on Offense, He micro-manages things and runs it like it's 1999. Someone (Leon, former player, current team?) has to do an intervention with him to change the Offense and use the bench.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks probably won't be able to change the roster so they should change the coach.

Bump Thibs up to the FO, new title: VP Of Pro Player Scouting of Players 35 Years Of Age And Older

[ctorres]

Older than Thibs and literally doesn’t speak to Thibs during games. The only assistants who ever even make eye contact (let alone speak) with him during games are 1) the replay guy and 2) his totally unqualified body men who bring him clip boards.

From tip off to final horn the only human beings Thibs speaks to are the 5 players on the court and the refs. Super unique among NBA coaches. Also unique — he complains about everything but never gets a Tech. It’s actually impressive.

Daniel Brady, Rick Brunson, Mark Bryant, Maurice Cheeks, Darren Erman, Andy Greer, Othella Harrington

Daniel Brady - little information on him

Rick Brunson - former Thibs player

Mark Bryant - old

Maurice Cheeks - old

Darren Erman - from Wikipedia: On April 6, 2014, it was announced the Warriors had decided to part ways with Erman, citing a "violation of company policy" for having secretly recorded conversations between players, coaches, and front office staff.

Andy Greer - old

Othella Harrington - former Thibs player

Erman is the ex lawyer who fought his way into the league by being an assistant coach for the G-League Celtics and wound up a valuable assistant on the Rivers chip team that had Thibs on it.

He's relatively young. Not Thibs old.

I know, I didn't note his age, just the Warriors scandal. I'm amazed he was able to overcome that and still get an NBA job

[thebuzzardman]

I see lots of comments from casuals on YT etc, about Brunson now being mini Melo, pounds the ball, not creative enough.

Same things were said about Randle.

Wonder what the common denominator for both players is while they were Knicks.

[thebuzzardman]

Daniel Brady, Rick Brunson, Mark Bryant, Maurice Cheeks, Darren Erman, Andy Greer, Othella Harrington

Daniel Brady - little information on him

Rick Brunson - former Thibs player

Mark Bryant - old

Maurice Cheeks - old

Darren Erman - from Wikipedia: On April 6, 2014, it was announced the Warriors had decided to part ways with Erman, citing a "violation of company policy" for having secretly recorded conversations between players, coaches, and front office staff.

Andy Greer - old

Othella Harrington - former Thibs player

Erman is the ex lawyer who fought his way into the league by being an assistant coach for the G-League Celtics and wound up a valuable assistant on the Rivers chip team that had Thibs on it.

He's relatively young. Not Thibs old.

I know, I didn't note his age, just the Warriors scandal. I'm amazed he was able to overcome that and still get an NBA job

I think he had already burnished his reputation via the chip Celtics.

But it's impressive he kept an NBA job after that.

Maybe Thibs rescued his NBA career.

[WaltFrazier]

Tbh, I can see how it comes about, but if JB is really having a significant input into who the HC should be and roster building that's bad. He comes across as a person big on personal relationships and standing by your people. That's admirable for the player who's the leader of the team. The GM needs to be much more ruthless.

And a big question if they did change head coaches is, what happens to Rick. New coaches often like to bring their own assistants in

[MrDollarBills]

Again, I point out Game 6 close out versus Boston when the game was well in hand and JB had to go up to Tom to tell him to take the starters out. That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen, it was like Tom was locked into a trance or something.

That's not normal man. I dunno what else to say at this point.

after game 1 of the ECF, can you at least understand the concern and aversion to relaxing too early?

not saying he doesn't go too far with it. asking, can you understand where it's coming from?

I totally understand where he's coming from, but he has gotta be reasonable with it and be aware enough to know when it's time to pull the plug.