The hypothetical- Ignitowsky, please respond

[truth serum]

Well regardless of if they're trying to trade them or not....you can't deny that Derrick Rose would be infinitely better than any of them. None of those guys are franchise PG's or close to it. Ridnour is probably the closest one to a "pure PG".

[chitownsports4ever]

I would say tank if the knicks wouldnt have had these distractions the last few years.But I dont think you can underestimate how big of a distraction that trial was or Marbury going awol was to the team.Every year its something but this year you have chance to see what these guys can do if they have a chance to play for something .

You have guys who want to be a team and try and do better give them a chance if they stink bad enough to get Rose you would at least know he would be accepted and ascend to a leadership role faster but if you lose on purpose you open it up to a every man for himself environment and make no mistake unless you raise some of these guys values they are not going anywhere. So when Rose or whoever shows up its like shut up rookie this is how its done here .

Winning and losing is not something you screw around with let the team do its best without any deals unless they are salary dumps and see where they land and proceed from there.

[NoLayupRule]

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I can respect that answer but is it more beneficial for the future of the franchise (the present sucks) to win 30 games or get a top 3 pick? And why are you willing to see what Isiah can do this summer when the past 4 years he has been nothing short of a disaster?

thank you for responding in an intelligent manner {unlike this threads author who specifically called me out again and then didnt even respond to my post}

for me it comes down to this

1}tanking is bad karma.

2}tanking teaches bad habits like 'there is always next year' or 'just play for stats because this season is a wash' or 'winning is meaningless'

3}a losing culture is harder to shake off than bad contracts or bad records. A team that believes in themselves can do a lot in this league

4}lottery is not a sure thing. even if you tank you are not guaranteed to get a top pick {see last year for an easy example}

5}this years top level players are not franchise talents IMO.

6}Beasley may not declare and even if he does we are unlikely to land the top 1 or 2 so we may easily miss out on beasley and rose and be stuck with disappointing players like Mayo or Gordon. There will be too much pressure on those guys as top picks in NY. they cant be saviors.

7}IMO Isiah has turned a corner and now fully, or more fully, understands what we fans have understood much longer. Marbury, Randolph and francis are the kind of players that screw a team over for their own benefit. It scares me that we are offering randolph to NJ for Carter as hes more of the same. But the other trades rumored - zach to Mil, steph to SAC, etc - are much more to my liking. If Isiah could move zach and steph for something positive - interior defense and starting quality SF play{say Odom and Brown or Artest and Moore} I think this team is ready to compete right away.

[Fury]

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Where were they trying to trade them, maybe you should tell me. And anything off of hoopshype or Peter "I make up random rumors" Vescey is pure garbage.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Sonics-might-deal-Watson-or-Ridnour?urn=nba,60498

And Derrick Rose:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004026626_soni21.html

[fimslim3]

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Yeah you're probably right. He'd make a nice pairing with Durant. I wonder if they have interest in Beasley too? They'll definitely have a good shot at him. Would they want two offensive guys like that to build around? It would be the perfect inside out combo. I think they may have plans of making Durant a PF at some point though which I don't think they should do....but that would probably steer them away from Beasley.

Either way, I think Rose is going to be the #1 pick. Teams see how quickly a great point guard like Chris Paul has turned around that franchise. If you look around at all the young players in the league like Durant or Oden....even teams like Miami with Wade.....all of them would love to have a PG like Rose to get these guys the ball.

I think the Wolves will take Beasley, but it is so obvious he fits the missing piece.

Ridnour/West/Green/Durant/Jordan
Watson/Wilkins/Wally/Wilcox/Petro

They also have Collison...

[NoLayupRule]

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Players are limited to certain extensions per the CBA rules, BRAINIAC. A coach's contract can be extended to add on to his current deal. Just admit you have a love affair with Isiah Thomas, you will never call him out. You love Eddy Curry and Jerome James. Recall the 50 win prediction NLR when we won 23 games? Two games short of my prediction. Last season it was 41 wins. This season, you couldn't handle the heat. The Knicks NEED to hit rock bottom, we shouldn't settle on mediocrity.

And NLR, I know how much you love mediocrity.

moronic as usual.

Isiah has been extended for like 2 more seasons. why would he be extended again? Just to suit your argument?

I often criticize isiah, you are just too myopic to understand that there can be multiple thoughts in one persons head. typically your posts reflect your generally hostile, scapegoating and childish mind.

[fimslim3]

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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Sonics-might-deal-Watson-or-Ridnour?urn=nba,60498

And Derrick Rose:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004026626_soni21.html

Fair enough, but I can't find any team that would need those players baring any injuries.

[NoLayupRule]

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Why are you asking certain people to respond?

because hes childish and has been desperate for an internet ownage for years.

still searching ...

still reaching ...

[fimslim3]

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moronic as usual.

Isiah has been extended for like 2 more seasons. why would he be extended again? Just to suit your argument?

I often criticize isiah, you are just too myopic to understand that there can be multiple thoughts in one persons head. typically your posts reflect your generally hostile, scapegoating and childish mind.

I am not sure where to begin, I actually feel insulted a bit, seeing as how you misspelled brain and calling my opinion moronic. Add to the fact that, you gave misleading information, but I digress...

Why would Dolan not extend Isiah's contract, he's done it before, what's to say he wont do it again. And I am not talking about just extension, I am talking about renewing his deal when his current deal is up. Why would Dolan even consider hiring someone else?

We're stuck with Dolan and Isiah, we might as well root for next possible solution, hope to lose and pray Isiah lands someone who turns this team around.

[Fury]

He extended him last year because he was at the end of his contract. Isiah got three more years. There's no way he gets extended with 2 more years left on his contract.

[NoLayupRule]

34-48 should get you higher than the 9th pick. More like around 5 or so. I'm good with that if they play competitive ball and finish 34-48. There's no LeBron or Oden. Greene or Jordan might still be there.

even if it was the 9th pick how much of a franchise changing difference would it be between that and the 3rd?

and the last 3 years Mil, Toronto and Portland have gotten the #1 overall.

None of those teams were close to the worst in the league. In fact both Tor and Mil were around 30 wins, if I remember correctly. I remember Tor being only 1 loss worse than us when they won the lottery {the LB year} and Mil being only a pair of losses worse to land Bogut.

[fimslim3]

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because hes childish and has been desperate for an internet ownage for years.

still searching ...

still reaching ...

I already owned you and dumped you. Sorry, I don't need more baggage.

[fimslim3]

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even if it was the 9th pick how much of a franchise changing difference would it be between that and the 3rd?

and the last 3 years Mil, Toronto and Portland have gotten the #1 overall.

None of those teams were close to the worst in the league. In fact both Tor and Mil were around 30 wins, if I remember correctly. I remember Tor being only 1 loss worse than us when they won the lottery {the LB year} and Mil being only a pair of losses worse to land Bogut.

Yes, you can move up. But many teams have already began to patch up the season and move on. We haven't.

[NoLayupRule]

He extended him last year because he was at the end of his contract. Isiah got three more years. There's no way he gets extended with 2 more years left on his contract.

thank you.

Some people ...

there is an old expression my grandma used to use when describing certain people like, well, you know.

"the stupid remain stupid, pills and drugs cant help."

[Fury]

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even if it was the 9th pick how much of a franchise changing difference would it be between that and the 3rd?

and the last 3 years Mil, Toronto and Portland have gotten the #1 overall.

None of those teams were close to the worst in the league. In fact both Tor and Mil were around 30 wins, if I remember correctly. I remember Tor being only 1 loss worse than us when they won the lottery {the LB year} and Mil being only a pair of losses worse to land Bogut.

We talk about Deron Williams and Chris Paul, and Andrew Bynum, and Aldridge and Gay, and Roy, and none of those guys were drafted higher than 3. I think only one (Williams) was drafted at 3. We'll get a good player.

[fimslim3]

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We talk about Deron Williams and Chris Paul, and Andrew Bynum, and Aldridge and Gay, and Roy, and none of those guys were drafted higher than 3. I think only one (Williams) was drafted at 3. We'll get a good player.

We'll draft another Channing Frye.

[Fury]

Considering Isiah was going to take him, Bynum or Ellis, I'll take my chances again.

[fimslim3]

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thank you.

Some people ...

there is an old expression my grandma used to use when describing certain people like, well, you know.

"the stupid remain stupid, pills and drugs cant help."

Yes, your grandma was right, you went from 50 wins to 41 wins and kept on falling short every season.

[DaBombBay]

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I can respect that answer but is it more beneficial for the future of the franchise (the present sucks) to win 30 games or get a top 3 pick? And why are you willing to see what Isiah can do this summer when the past 4 years he has been nothing short of a disaster?

thank you for responding in an intelligent manner {unlike this threads author who specifically called me out again and then didnt even respond to my post}

for me it comes down to this

1}tanking is bad karma.
Ooo... how intimidating. Bad karma... even if you believe in this silly concept, the franchise has had bad karma ever since it signed Isiah Thomas, who has been running businesses into the ground ever since he retired from playing basketball.

2}tanking teaches bad habits like 'there is always next year' or 'just play for stats because this season is a wash' or 'winning is meaningless'

You do know that Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry are on this team, right? And the team has gone NOWHERE the last FOUR YEARS. These bad habits you're so scared of have already been learned, as the team has been a complete joke, treating each season as meaningless or a wash while stat padders like Crawful and Curry played major minutes.

3}a losing culture is harder to shake off than bad contracts or bad records. A team that believes in themselves can do a lot in this league

By creating a losing culture and a joke of a team that everyone laughs at and our fans themselves boo, Isiah Thomas has already made #3 a reality. Now we can keep the same personnel, the same losers (Curry, Zach, Crawful, etc) who don't believe in themselves but like the fat paychecks they receive OR we can try to scrap these born losers and create a team that believes in themselves at the end of the season.

4}lottery is not a sure thing. even if you tank you are not guaranteed to get a top pick {see last year for an easy example}

You are guaranteed to get a top pick if you tank, just not the #1 pick in the entire draft. Last I checked, Boston still got a Top 5 pick which was an asset big enough to help land Ray Allen and revamp their entire roster. I'd rather have a Top 5 pick than a Top 9 - Top 13 pick.

5}this years top level players are not franchise talents IMO.

Gimme a break. You don't know whether there are franchise talents in a draft until 2 - 3 years after its held. These are just more excuses to tote the party line and kiss Isiah's incompetent azz. I'd rather add top level players from this year's upcoming draft than run with the same old loser squad that keeps us as the blooper of the NBA.


6}Beasley may not declare and even if he does we are unlikely to land the top 1 or 2 so we may easily miss out on beasley and rose and be stuck with disappointing players like Mayo or Gordon. There will be too much pressure on those guys as top picks in NY. they cant be saviors.

Yeah, I'm sure the media scrutiny, racism, David Stern, refs, angry fans and other filler excuses from Isiah's azz kissers will do them in. Get real.

7}IMO Isiah has turned a corner and now fully, or more fully, understands what we fans have understood much longer. Marbury, Randolph and francis are the kind of players that screw a team over for their own benefit. It scares me that we are offering randolph to NJ for Carter as hes more of the same. But the other trades rumored - zach to Mil, steph to SAC, etc - are much more to my liking. If Isiah could move zach and steph for something positive - interior defense and starting quality SF play{say Odom and Brown or Artest and Moore} I think this team is ready to compete right away.

We'll see if he's learned anything. I hope he has, but how much he's learned is anyone's guess. After 4 years of foolishness and irrationality, banking on Isiah's intelligence is a risky proposition...

[NoLayupRule]

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We talk about Deron Williams and Chris Paul, and Andrew Bynum, and Aldridge and Gay, and Roy, and none of those guys were drafted higher than 3. I think only one (Williams) was drafted at 3. We'll get a good player.

i agree.

IMO there isnt a major drop in talent from 4 to 10. all those players are major question-marks. 1-3 are major question-marks too actually.