Lee and Chandler Trade Assets with Effries

[Capn'O]

Thing is with Lee... if we don't trade him we either

A) Sign him
B) Let him walk.

Signing him most likely means a deal starting at around 9 million. Jeffries makes about 7 million and Chandler 2 million. Plus our other contracts that already puts us at 35 million meaning if the cap drops to 50 million... either we can't resign Lee or we resign him and don't have enough for a max contract...

So in the worst case cap scenario we essentially lose him for nothing or don't pursue LeBron unless we get a slam dunk deal for Jeffries.

I'm assuming Gay signs for a Josh Howard type deal but let's start him at 12 million for the sake of argument and we also sign Young for 2 million. That gives us 3 million less and allows us to still get our max free agent in a worst case scenario.

THAT is what Bluest and I are talking about in this thread. It's strict $$ numbers that get us a good young talent and keep us strong in the free agent market.

This is why we would look at a trade LIKE this one. I happen to like Gay (pause) and think this particular trade is a good one but I would encourage Donnie to look at a few trades LIKE this one that get us a good player long term and open up some space this summer.

[TheBluest]

Thing is with Lee... if we don't trade him we either

A) Sign him
B) Let him walk.

Signing him most likely means a deal starting at around 9 million. Jeffries makes about 7 million and Chandler 2 million. Plus our other contracts that already puts us at 35 million meaning if the cap drops to 50 million... either we can't resign Lee or we resign him and don't have enough for a max contract...

So in the worst case cap scenario we essentially lose him for nothing or don't pursue LeBron unless we get a slam dunk deal for Jeffries.

I'm assuming Gay signs for a Josh Howard type deal but let's start him at 12 million for the sake of argument and we also sign Young for 2 million. That gives us 3 million less and allows us to still get our max free agent in a worst case scenario.

THAT is what Bluest and I are talking about in this thread. It's strict $$ numbers that get us a good young talent and keep us strong in the free agent market.

This is why we would look at a trade LIKE this one. I happen to like Gay (pause) and think this particular trade is a good one but I would encourage Donnie to look at a few trades LIKE this one that get us a good player long term and open up some space this summer.

Capn'O Young is a on a 2nd round pick Rookie deal on the cheap HELLO. His contract breaks down like this...

2009=$824,200
2010=$886,000
2011=$947,800(Team Option)

He doesn't need to be resigned next yr for anything, he's locked in already until 2011-12 and we have the option to pick up his option or not. I don't think Gay gets more than what Monta got and that's 6yrs/$66mil. Josh Howard got 4yrs $40mil extension. Gay's first yr starting salary will not be over $10mil not matter who signs him. So I see at least another $3mil freed up from your example.

[Capn'O]

Thing is with Lee... if we don't trade him we either

A) Sign him
B) Let him walk.

Signing him most likely means a deal starting at around 9 million. Jeffries makes about 7 million and Chandler 2 million. Plus our other contracts that already puts us at 35 million meaning if the cap drops to 50 million... either we can't resign Lee or we resign him and don't have enough for a max contract...

So in the worst case cap scenario we essentially lose him for nothing or don't pursue LeBron unless we get a slam dunk deal for Jeffries.

I'm assuming Gay signs for a Josh Howard type deal but let's start him at 12 million for the sake of argument and we also sign Young for 2 million. That gives us 3 million less and allows us to still get our max free agent in a worst case scenario.



THAT is what Bluest and I are talking about in this thread. It's strict $$ numbers that get us a good young talent and keep us strong in the free agent market.

This is why we would look at a trade LIKE this one. I happen to like Gay (pause) and think this particular trade is a good one but I would encourage Donnie to look at a few trades LIKE this one that get us a good player long term and open up some space this summer.

Capn'O Young is a on a 2nd round pick Rookie deal on the cheap HELLO. His contract breaks down like this...

2009=$824,200
2010=$886,000
2011=$947,800(Team Option)

He doesn't need to be resigned next yr for anything, he's locked in already until 2011-12 and we have the option to pick up his option or not. I don't think Gay gets more than what Monta got and that's 6yrs/$66mil. Josh Howard got 4yrs $40mil extension. Gay's first yr starting salary will not be over $10mil not matter who signs him. So I see at least another $3mil freed up from your example.

Ah, so he is... and I agree about Gay. I was intentionally highballing his salary so people wouldn't come in here and say "well he'll get more than that". Anyway, that even moreso proves the point we are trying to get across here. A trade like this nets us players to put around a superstar and keeps us competitve in the FA market.

[kane2021]

I appreciate you seeing my respect. My only agenda is seeing this team back in the mix.

Im not comparing marion and chandler as players. Its more in how coach is using him in comparison. Your statement on marion before coach D is a good one. And my expectations for chandler are not that high. I see chandler as the type of player you can call on off the bench in spots. I think his future is solid. He HAS shown improvements. And has shown to be coachable. I understand he can get better and I expect him to. I just think some have over blown his value. And I wanted to put his skills in prospective. Maybe im being harsh on him although I dont mean to.

I just feel we cant view him as untouchable. And we cant be scared to make a move because of thomas. I know there is some out there sitting in a corner clutching on chandler sporting a blank knick jersey with no name or number in anticipation of 2010.

Im on board with walsh and 2010. But if walsh decided to get aggressive and change the look of this team while keeping cap space I trust him. As a matter of fact I would encourage him to.

Part of the issue here is that the OP is viewed as a troll by some. I know thats not the case. And he presented the proposal in a educated and respectful manner. This deal sheds a contract, adds 2 young cheap players to the roster (something we really need) and a young player with true and CURRENT star potential. This is a deal you have to think about.

The issue with this deal is not wilson chandler david lee or rudy gays ability. The issue here is how much does rudy gay want. Lee is up for contract and Chandler is under rookie scale with team option.

I think its safe for us to say Lee will improve also. How much does he want? Are we back to the 10+ million per year thing again? Would you rather have that debate with Lee or Gay?

Think about Gays s/t value next summer also. Even if curry is still on the books, he will be a expiring. Gay in s/t with curry becomes a big package.

Also Rudys cap hold is around 9 million. But we move JJ. So unlike our current situation we could still sign a max contract THEN deal with gay.

I'm tired of some fans thinking no matter what move we make it can only be an absolute guarantee swing for the fences type deal. Like we have the greatest strength in bargaining for value. Great point about Gay in a S&T he'd be BYC(assuming he gets the assumed market value increase) which makes the unloading of Curry easier in a sense). The only thing is he'd have to have a good yr here. We need to make moves that stick to our core goals and accomplish an end means. I personally think Gay could be one of those Crawford types as I said in the No Extension thread but also he could break out and eventually figure things out, that's why I said RISK. Lee will not be better than he is today. I love how Knick fans rationalize Lee possibly continuing to improve but when it came to drafting T-Will he wasn't going to improve at age 22 because he entered the draft finishing college as a senior.

As stated and to add...

The trades I suggested keep us young, give us premium talent, young prospect on the cheap, acquire more assets to turn into young prospects if we so choose, create more cap space, balance the team, make future moves even easier. Good luck thinking an expiring David Lee a Hot and Cold Chandler, and a bad contract in Effries will get us anything more than Rudy Gay and a Young Prospect on the cheap.

I think some of us don't break trades down properly when balancing value. It looks like this on paper

Gay>Chandler
Lee, Effries>Hunter, Williams, Sam Young

BTW against Detroit tonight

Rudy Gay 7-10fg... 25pts, 7reb, 4ast, 2blks
Hunter 4-5fg... 9pts, 1reb, 1stl
Williams 5-8fg... 16pts, 2reb, 3ast
Sam Young 2-5fg... 4pts, 1stl

We would also own Gay's bird right's in a RFA yr. Extend the QO and we have FROF and can threaten to match any offer he gets on the open market. No one will want Rudy tieing up their 2010 cap for 7 days during the summer of 2010 with us threatening to match. Rudy is a career 45% and 35% player which actually surprises me.

Think about this also. Say its summer 2010. We have Rudy Gay. No JJ and we have EC. We will have a max slot plus about another 13 million depending on the cap before RG's cap hold.

Say we s/t RG and EC to the mavs for a resigned Josh Howard and Eric Dampier. I think they should add minor picks also because they get the better player. And they cant cry about the Damp contract for a expiring. They got money. And they are not under the cap while looking to retain dirk. Damp as we know is not guaranteed 2010. We could cut him and get that instant 12 million, plus the remaining money on the cap after the howard deal. Say howard gets 8 million. We COULD have another max slot opened with that deal. Plus Josh Howard.

Now we are in the market with 2 max slots,
Josh Howard
Gallo
Hill
TD
Williams
Young

Plus any picks we get from the mavs. We could walk away the summer 2010 with 3 free agents.

Its just a example of the flexibility a deal like this would add. The BYC's makes it tricky, but very possible. Like I said I like Lee and im not on the RG bang wagon. But a lot of people are. More so then Lee band wagon. We saw his value this off season once already. Lee could not make that deal happen. But rudy gay can.

I dont think it matters what type of knick fan you are that is a monumental off season. And a series of GM of they year moves.

[Darko Miliminutes]

Watch Rudy real closely next time you have a chance to see Rudy play. Watch his handles, watch his defense, watch his awareness, and watch his ability to play within a team concept. Then revisit this idea after. He is not one of the answers around here. But in his defense he does seem to be making an effort to involve others, but he just does not have quick enough awareness or a high enough bball iq.

Some things can, and can't, be learned. Thinking of Rudy Gay as elite would be wishful thinking.

[duetta]

Thinking of Rudy Gay as elite would be wishful thinking.

Guy's putting up average 'scorer' numbers on a miserable team, Al Harrington type numbers.

[moocow007]

Thinking of Rudy Gay as elite would be wishful thinking.

Guy's putting up average 'scorer' numbers on a miserable team, Al Harrington type numbers.

Harrington actually has better numbers than Gay and yet people have already pegged Harrington as the new "Scapegoat in Waiting" for this upcoming season. Ironically many of the people that want Gay are also leading the Harrington as goat rally.

[VinnyTheMick]

Thinking of Rudy Gay as elite would be wishful thinking.

Guy's putting up average 'scorer' numbers on a miserable team, Al Harrington type numbers.

Harrington actually has better numbers than Gay and yet people have already pegged Harrington as the new "Scapegoat in Waiting" for this upcoming season. Ironically many of the people that want Gay are also leading the Harrington as goat rally.

The grass is always greener, especially when it comes to Knicks fans....

[duetta]

Harrington actually has better numbers than Gay and yet people have already pegged Harrington as the new "Scapegoat in Waiting" for this upcoming season. Ironically many of the people that want Gay are also leading the Harrington as goat rally.

Yep. No question about it.

[cgf]

Thinking of Rudy Gay as elite would be wishful thinking.

Guy's putting up average 'scorer' numbers on a miserable team, Al Harrington type numbers.

Harrington actually has better numbers than Gay and yet people have already pegged Harrington as the new "Scapegoat in Waiting" for this upcoming season. Ironically many of the people that want Gay are also leading the Harrington as goat rally.

To be fair, I dislike both of them.

[Marty McFly]

Lee, Chandler, Effries

for

Gay, Hunter, Williams, Young

i would most definitely do that.i think that gay is the type of player that could be transformed by lebron james.i would get rid of free candy too.