PG: FJU Needs To Be Shut Down

[Sark]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/694923439510065153[/tweet]

Would you bring him back?

To coach, sure. To play, no.

[j4remi]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/694923439510065153[/tweet]

Would you bring him back?

For the minimum, probably. He's not the answer, doesn't play good D or anything but we could use a true PF and he's got some range and passing to help. Plus it'd make it easier to shop one of Lance/Dwill since both play mins at PF.

[Johnny Hoops]

there was absolutely no triangle today. It was iso Melo or iso AA. did we have a player with more than 3 assists?

Calderon isn't good at all but at least there seems to be a bit more ball movement with him in there than with Gallo.

Melo has become a statue --- he's not moving and he's not defending. Is he hurt -- I don't think so. Is he out of shape because he hasn't been going hard in practice because of the ankle - maybe but he's much less active in his movements and he's spending a lot of time playing iso ball when he has the ball inside the arc.

simply not so

he's neither playing slow nor is he not defending

pure horse fooey

Sure he is -- the past few games his movement has been poor. Go look at the game and watch his movement with in the offense -- it's non-existent. Go watch him fall asleep on D as Crowder blows by him to the rim for an uncontested lay-up.

He's either tired, hurt, out of shape or old -- take your pick but he's not moving like he was prior to the ankle injury.

Was it the +50 minutes he played in our OT game when he first came back off the injury? Maybe but however you want to cut it -- he looks sluggish (a step slow).

[Johnny Hoops]

Honestly the only thing that makes me less mad/harsh about Grant is that THard has pretty much 1 foot out of the league at this point and has zero trade value. Grant still might have a little value left or could snap out of this.

Another thing is that whenever we play to Grant's strength, which is PnR, he has succeeded.

His best games have come when he's allowed to run the high PnR

It's one thing to say that Grant's strength is pick/roll -- that we all know.

It's another thing to say that he's good at pick/roll -- right now he's mediocre/poor at best.

You watch how an I-Thomas uses the pick/roll to simply create confusion / get to a spot or mid-range shot and that is pure pick and roll offense. Grant primarily wants to try to get to the right side of the rim -- he doesn't understand the nuances of the play and that is a bit alarming considering his long college career.

[Greenie]

You might feel differently in a year or two, toward the end of Melo's contract, when we are getting ready to Max out KP (presumably & hopefully), and Melo's contract is still on the books and can't be traded in time. We should probably try this time to plan for maximizing value around our best future player, instead of worrying too much about the present.

We're here because of Amar'e, Bargnani, JR, Felton, etc., and even giving up too much for Melo, as good as he's been. Make no mistake about it. Those ghosts are still haunting MSG, and the past is precedent. Therefore, it makes sense to think about letting Melo go when he can still be traded and could still bring back value. Instead of keeping him for the sake of keeping him.

That's why Boston is still ahead of us after building a great team. They pivoted. Keeping Melo definitely jeopardizes the KP Era. Maybe it all works out, but holding out for a great deal for Melo seems very risky. Seems like we haven't learned the lesson of the rut we're in.

What is so great about Boston's position again?

Are we talking about the same team that didn't have enough assets to trade up for Frank Kaminsky?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

It's not great, and not as great as the media makes with the picks. But if we had KP plus their roster, we'd be happy. We have a chance to do that, more or less. The guys on their roster are guys we can get. And add to KP, which would be a nice position to be in. If we keep Melo, that's less likely to happen.

Plus this isn't fair to Melo at this point. It makes no sense. Melo is going to finish his prime out of the playoffs? Why. I have no idea.

Why you always lying?

[Johnny Hoops]

Every 2nd loss in a row, we need to do a full rebuild, send Grant to the D-League, and fire everyone.

Every 2nd win in a row, we are a playoff team, Melo is elite again, and there is a hidden genius in every move

All the facts really do seem to point to that nobody of any importance in NY really has put any serious weight on this season. We've signed better players, but not great ones, and we have performed accordingly.

If we double our win total from last season, I think everyone from Phil on down will consider that a success.

Except this is a team that is 3-7 in it's last 10 games and a couple of those wins were less than impressive.

There were thoughts the team turned the corner, instead it has regressed hard. That is bad coaching.

It's a lot of bad things.

But coaching isn't responsible for AA falling off of a cliff, for having no real backcourt, or for our best PG (Jose) getting injured, Melo getting injured, KP getting sick, injured, and generally hitting a wall, etc...

Coaching is a factor for sure, but us just being not that good is another one.

I think we are right in line with what we are supposed to be, give or take a few games.

Having Pop or Carlisle wouldn't make this team a 50+ win roster either. Especially if they have to run the Triangle.

Outside of the triangle part - I agree GONYK.

I think with Calderon not around to blame -- most have only Fisher to point fingers out.

He was the same guy coaching last time we beat the Celtics but now Steven's is better and our players performance has little to do with when we win/lose -- which is just baffling to me.

[Greenie]

Couldn't win with Cousins. Couldn't even start in Phoenix. I guess he's better than Melo since he can actually lead a team over .500.

Keep underrating coaching though.

Sac is a mess.
Phx is too.

Try again.

Both have awful coaching situations.

Boston has? I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with crab leavings.

Boston is also a better run organization with better players OVERALL

[Johnny Hoops]

This "Melo and KP are on different career arcs" is some of the laziest rationalization ever.

Melo makes the game easier for KP and is teaching him how to be an alpha in this game. You want KP to develop, you keep him around that as long as he can.

While I do agree that Melo makes the game easier for KP and takes a lot of pressure off KP I also believe KP is the best 20 year-old player in the world. He will develop just fine with or without Melo.

If Melo will leave and we can get a solid deal for him --- I would say make the move.

I don't think this happens but when you watch Melo struggle to move / score it's not difficult to understand that he's on a declining / not ascending trajectory in terms of his physical capabilities.

I trade Melo for a good deal, not a "solid" one. He's not a player that I feel the need to get out from under.

Yeah ok I get that -- I tend to get antsy when I see Melo struggling to handle significant minutes and seemingly always dealing with one injury or another that takes away from his overall play.

I don't like his movement the past few games and I wonder when this just becomes the norm.

So far this year we had him struggling to rebound from last years knee surgery, then we have him injuring his ankle, then he comes back but plays too many minutes and his knee acts up -- so he is constantly in-out /// trying to get back into shape/flow.

This only gets progressively worse after 13-years of NBA grind on those ankles/knees.

[thebuzzardman]

Except this is a team that is 3-7 in it's last 10 games and a couple of those wins were less than impressive.

There were thoughts the team turned the corner, instead it has regressed hard. That is bad coaching.

It's a lot of bad things.

But coaching isn't responsible for AA falling off of a cliff, for having no real backcourt, or for our best PG (Jose) getting injured, Melo getting injured, KP getting sick, injured, and generally hitting a wall, etc...

Coaching is a factor for sure, but us just being not that good is another one.

I think we are right in line with what we are supposed to be, give or take a few games.

Having Pop or Carlisle wouldn't make this team a 50+ win roster either. Especially if they have to run the Triangle.

Outside of the triangle part - I agree GONYK.

I think with Calderon not around to blame -- most have only Fisher to point fingers out.

He was the same guy coaching last time we beat the Celtics but now Steven's is better and our players performance has little to do with when we win/lose -- which is just baffling to me.

For me, this attitude isn't based on one loss; it's based on 3-7 the last 10 games, it's based on even the wins not being impressive. The Knicks didnt look good to start the season either, but I thought it was fair to let Fisher find his way with the new players, as they themselves adjusted to the new system.

But he didn't exactly light it up coaching wise even when they were in the plus column for wins in the stretch of games 11-40.

Again, the team isn't loaded with talent, but it's not devoid of it either.A mediocre coach gets a mediocre roster to .500, the very definition of mediocre. Fisher has the mediocre roster lucky to be 5 games under .500. And it's going to get worse. Just watch.

[Johnny Hoops]

I trade Melo for a good deal, not a "solid" one. He's not a player that I feel the need to get out from under.

You might feel differently in a year or two, toward the end of Melo's contract, when we are getting ready to Max out KP (presumably & hopefully), and Melo's contract is still on the books and can't be traded in time. We should probably try this time to plan for maximizing value around our best future player, instead of worrying too much about the present.

We're here because of Amar'e, Bargnani, JR, Felton, etc., and even giving up too much for Melo, as good as he's been. Make no mistake about it. Those ghosts are still haunting MSG, and the past is precedent. Therefore, it makes sense to think about letting Melo go when he can still be traded and could still bring back value. Instead of keeping him for the sake of keeping him.

That's why Boston is still ahead of us after building a great team. They pivoted. Keeping Melo definitely jeopardizes the KP Era. Maybe it all works out, but holding out for a great deal for Melo seems very risky. Seems like we haven't learned the lesson of the rut we're in.

What is so great about Boston's position again?

Are we talking about the same team that didn't have enough assets to trade up for Frank Kaminsky?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

WOW -- you prefer Knicks position to Celtics?

I assume no -- but I'd kill to be sitting in Celtic's position. Who cares if team's didn't want to trade with them -- they have assets, flexibility and already have a very solid roster.

[Knicksfan1992]

Our bench can't score or rebound. DLee would be welcomed back with open arms. As long as Fish gets back to staggering Rolo/KP at center. DLee would be fine here.

[K_ick_God]

What is so great about Boston's position again?

Are we talking about the same team that didn't have enough assets to trade up for Frank Kaminsky?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

It's not great, and not as great as the media makes with the picks. But if we had KP plus their roster, we'd be happy. We have a chance to do that, more or less. The guys on their roster are guys we can get. And add to KP, which would be a nice position to be in. If we keep Melo, that's less likely to happen.

Plus this isn't fair to Melo at this point. It makes no sense. Melo is going to finish his prime out of the playoffs? Why. I have no idea.

Why you always lying?

What's not true? The less cap flexibility you have, the harder it is to acquire quality pieces.

[GONYK]

You might feel differently in a year or two, toward the end of Melo's contract, when we are getting ready to Max out KP (presumably & hopefully), and Melo's contract is still on the books and can't be traded in time. We should probably try this time to plan for maximizing value around our best future player, instead of worrying too much about the present.

We're here because of Amar'e, Bargnani, JR, Felton, etc., and even giving up too much for Melo, as good as he's been. Make no mistake about it. Those ghosts are still haunting MSG, and the past is precedent. Therefore, it makes sense to think about letting Melo go when he can still be traded and could still bring back value. Instead of keeping him for the sake of keeping him.

That's why Boston is still ahead of us after building a great team. They pivoted. Keeping Melo definitely jeopardizes the KP Era. Maybe it all works out, but holding out for a great deal for Melo seems very risky. Seems like we haven't learned the lesson of the rut we're in.

What is so great about Boston's position again?

Are we talking about the same team that didn't have enough assets to trade up for Frank Kaminsky?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

WOW -- you prefer Knicks position to Celtics?

I assume no -- but I'd kill to be sitting in Celtic's position. Who cares if team's didn't want to trade with them -- they have assets, flexibility and already have a very solid roster.

They have a scrappy roster and a bunch of assets that nobody wanted last go around in a market nobody really wants to play in.

They are theoretically in a good place, but have not been successful in actualizing it in any way.

I would rather have 2 stars, cap space, and our pick in a big market than no stars, picks, and cap space in a middle market.

[Knicksfan1992]

You might feel differently in a year or two, toward the end of Melo's contract, when we are getting ready to Max out KP (presumably & hopefully), and Melo's contract is still on the books and can't be traded in time. We should probably try this time to plan for maximizing value around our best future player, instead of worrying too much about the present.

We're here because of Amar'e, Bargnani, JR, Felton, etc., and even giving up too much for Melo, as good as he's been. Make no mistake about it. Those ghosts are still haunting MSG, and the past is precedent. Therefore, it makes sense to think about letting Melo go when he can still be traded and could still bring back value. Instead of keeping him for the sake of keeping him.

That's why Boston is still ahead of us after building a great team. They pivoted. Keeping Melo definitely jeopardizes the KP Era. Maybe it all works out, but holding out for a great deal for Melo seems very risky. Seems like we haven't learned the lesson of the rut we're in.

What is so great about Boston's position again?

Are we talking about the same team that didn't have enough assets to trade up for Frank Kaminsky?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

WOW -- you prefer Knicks position to Celtics?

I assume no -- but I'd kill to be sitting in Celtic's position. Who cares if team's didn't want to trade with them -- they have assets, flexibility and already have a very solid roster.

Nah their best player is IT. He can only take you so far. They'll be a first round exit flame out team until they make a trade. KP has the potential to be much more. Hypothetically, with their "assets" they are a better situation but, we actually have our future star and current one we just need to get the right pieces around them which is usually easier to do than go star hunting.

[god shammgod]

read the wiretap. the celtics want to trade for dwight howard. they're not in a great position.

[Sark]

Sac is a mess.
Phx is too.

Try again.

Both have awful coaching situations.

Boston has? I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with crab leavings.

Boston is also a better run organization with better players OVERALL

They're a team full of throwaways and castaways. There's not one superstar type player on that team that has real trade value. The most valuable thing Boston has is draft picks from Brooklyn. They have nothing even close to the value of Melo or Porzingis.

[Red Vines]

The best thing the Celtics have is their coach.

[Greenie]

It's not great, and not as great as the media makes with the picks. But if we had KP plus their roster, we'd be happy. We have a chance to do that, more or less. The guys on their roster are guys we can get. And add to KP, which would be a nice position to be in. If we keep Melo, that's less likely to happen.

Plus this isn't fair to Melo at this point. It makes no sense. Melo is going to finish his prime out of the playoffs? Why. I have no idea.

Why you always lying?

What's not true? The less cap flexibility you have, the harder it is to acquire quality pieces.

Nobody would be happy.

[Greenie]

Both have awful coaching situations.

Boston has? I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with crab leavings.

Boston is also a better run organization with better players OVERALL

They're a team full of throwaways and castaways. There's not one superstar type player on that team that has real trade value. The most valuable thing Boston has is draft picks from Brooklyn. They have nothing even close to the value of Melo or Porzingis.

2 players don't make a TEAM.

[god shammgod]

the easiest thing to do for most teams is to get rid of the coach. the problem with that scenario for us is our gm wouldn't allow another coach to do things much different then this one does.