OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA

[matchman]

Wumao?

I would not jump into this conclusion just yet, but I would be quite curious on how Puerto Rico's issue affect whether American people to care about Hong Kong or not.

If people is curious on why Hong Kong is receiving more concern than anywhere else (like Indonesia, Iraq, Ecuador and now Catalonia, Lebanon and Chile), there are some of the reasons:

1) Hong Kong is one of the most wealthy district/city/region, per capita GDP is now at top ten of the world;
2) Stock market is at top seven of the world, so lots of money flowing around
3) But much more importantly, it is the Window of China, and to have one country two system under a totalitarian rule, and a 50-year promise between China and UK, there will always be a spotlight over here
4) And there is the myth on how Hong Kong democratic movement, may eventually affect mainland, but it is clearly moving on the opposite side
5) To see how PRC treats its own people in HK and also Xinjiang, would make people wonder what they will do to other countries when they want that global influence. The Earth may not afford two United States, but the same may also be true that the Earth cannot afford a worse version of United States to be the superpower.

[DOLPHIN2020]

Wumao?

I would not jump into this conclusion just yet, but I would be quite curious on how Puerto Rico's issue affect whether American people to care about Hong Kong or not.

If people is curious on why Hong Kong is receiving more concern than anywhere else (like Indonesia, Iraq, Ecuador and now Catalonia, Lebanon and Chile), there are some of the reasons:

1) Hong Kong is one of the most wealthy district/city/region, per capita GDP is now at top ten of the world;
2) Stock market is at top seven of the world, so lots of money flowing around
3) But much more importantly, it is the Window of China, and to have one country two system under a totalitarian rule, and a 50-year promise between China and UK, there will always be a spotlight over here
4) And there is the myth on how Hong Kong democratic movement, may eventually affect mainland, but it is clearly moving on the opposite side
5) To see how PRC treats its own people in HK and also Xinjiang, would make people wonder what they will do to other countries when they want that global influence. The Earth may not afford two United States, but the same may also be true that the Earth cannot afford a worse version of United States to be the superpower.

[DOLPHIN2020]

1.they don't I'm asking what is China actually doing, no one has an answer , because what they are doing they are perfectly within their rights to do.

2. Lebron tweeted that on MLK day , it means he's honoring an american hero not that he is one .

3.Lebron has the money and the ability to take a crazy woman's illogical babble and make money off it , big deal . People are acting because he has some goals to make some money and help some poor kids he wants to be Ghandi or Mother Teresa , its a farce i don't see anywhere else in sports where people look at an athlete and say because you don't fight for everything i dont care to hear what you have to say , "i don't want to hear you anymore"

if everyone has such a problem with China how come i didn't see a huge thread with the US's dealings with Puerto Rico this summer who are in the same boat politically , had large scale protests that even eventually forced out some people , but ultimately have virtually the same limitations on their rights and citizenship.

i saw 3 100 page threads on Frank Ntilikina but nothing about the large scale turmoil that affects large portions of actual new yorkers

I don't know if Lebron knows anyone from Hong Kong , but I do know he knows people from and of PR, Hong Kong has had these issues for 22 years

PR 102

the people of Puerto Rico are American citizens and being that this is a knicks forum i assume the majority of the posters here are from new york and know people from there.

and i'll ask again

Why should any American care about Hong Kong over the plight of actual American citizens?

especially those in the same situation.

because no one to my knowledge has ever complained that Lebron hasn't done anything, said a peep for Puerto Rico , but want to be on his case about Hong Kong.

1.the residents of Hong Kong want universal suffrage , american citizens dont have that

2.they want amnesty for crimes they are currently commiting and show no signs of stopping

3.they don't want extradition to china

4.a commission to look into police brutality

5.and for the govt. to stop calling protesters , rioters

the 1st 3 you cant get here , the last 2 are small matters and hong kong has already ceded #3.

Wumao?

Wèijūnzǐ?

Great, you discovered google translate.

[MadGrinch]

Wumao?

Wèijūnzǐ?

Great, you discovered google translate.

It would be nice if you had balls enough to say it English.

[MadGrinch]

Wumao?

I would not jump into this conclusion just yet, but I would be quite curious on how Puerto Rico's issue affect whether American people to care about Hong Kong or not.

If people is curious on why Hong Kong is receiving more concern than anywhere else (like Indonesia, Iraq, Ecuador and now Catalonia, Lebanon and Chile), there are some of the reasons:

1) Hong Kong is one of the most wealthy district/city/region, per capita GDP is now at top ten of the world;
2) Stock market is at top seven of the world, so lots of money flowing around
3) But much more importantly, it is the Window of China, and to have one country two system under a totalitarian rule, and a 50-year promise between China and UK, there will always be a spotlight over here
4) And there is the myth on how Hong Kong democratic movement, may eventually affect mainland, but it is clearly moving on the opposite side
5) To see how PRC treats its own people in HK and also Xinjiang, would make people wonder what they will do to other countries when they want that global influence. The Earth may not afford two United States, but the same may also be true that the Earth cannot afford a worse version of United States to be the superpower.

Great post. you are a voice of reason on this thread.

Couple points, 1. HK is the third or second most important financial center in the world, others being London and NY. Look at the IPOs over the past 10 years.

There is a reason the army is not overtly in Hk, it is too important a financial capital source.

2. I ask the previous poster why in their opinion there is no universal sufferage in the US. Does the poster understand the concept of Universal Sufferage?

Do you understand the concept of universal suffrage?

And when did you ask me that?

And to answer matchman it’s quite simple

If Americans don’t care about their own citizens in the same situation why should/would they care about it when it’s across the world?

Lebron did not choose to take a stand with Hong Kong , nor China but he’s being openly mocked , in this thread and the world at large

He was clearly speaking from the prospective of a player and a teammate and then reiterated that his previous comments were not about the content of Morey’s tweet . He had teammates and friends have their events cancelled and lose money for an issue they had no say in , but that’s ok huh?

As far as Hong Kong goes he took no stand at all.

How can people speak of freedom when their response(s) show they don’t respect it of others?

A persons level of respect for another’s opinion isn’t shown when they agree , but when they don’t.

[DOLPHIN2020]

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033707/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-will-face-retribution-defaming

Apparently Silver made up the whole thing about being asked to sack Morey.

Getting more interesting by the day.

[aq_ua]

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033707/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-will-face-retribution-defaming

Apparently Silver made up the whole thing about being asked to sack Morey.

Getting more interesting by the day.

Certainly it would seem at least one side is lying, but it’s interesting that you assume it’s Silver.

[DOLPHIN2020]

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3033707/nba-commissioner-adam-silver-will-face-retribution-defaming

Apparently Silver made up the whole thing about being asked to sack Morey.

Getting more interesting by the day.

Certainly it would seem at least one side is lying, but it’s interesting that you assume it’s Silver.

[matchman]

HK cops going nuts by pouring water cannon into Kowloon mosque, oh my god how silly and reckless it can be!

https://glibsquick.com/m/other/hongkong-police-water-canon-sprays-blue-dye-steps-of-mosque-also-stained

While protesters try their best not to get racial or religious, the cop invited it. Ugh.

[HarthorneWingo]

This important discussion has been interrupted for a comedic moment.

Here is the best Trump impersonator/impressionist Anthony Atamanuik, who starred in The President Show, reading that letter Trump wrote himself no doubt to Turkish PM Erdogan.

Read on Twitter

[blanko]

But Lebron should know more than virtually everyone on this topic , he spent last week in China and has had business dealings in China for about 15 years but more importantly China's actual role in the HK protest is minimal , its not China beating people's heads in, its the Hong Kong police . China does have an army unit in town but it hasn't been used serving a purpose similar to the national guard here ...its just there.

everyone knows if it gets too out of hand China will take control , and no one wants that , not the protesters nor the Hong Kong govt...not even China.

People clamor for James' opinion and he gives it and then the same people want to critique it for not aligning with their sentiments , which is simply unfair . Either you want his opinion or you don't, but you can't control how he feels.

you have your opinion

i have mine

he has his .

if his is "I'm trying to make some money here ." that's a valid opinion , although he also believed his(as well as the rest of the nba contingent that went to China) safety was risked as well and he wasn't cool with it which is why he specifically said it could have waited a week. He also sincerely wants Morey either fired or punished for his actions which the NBA has stated it won't do .

honestly i don't think he should have a say outside of his own business , but if it is actually his business who is anyone to criticize it ?

he shouldn't be under any pressure to back the people of Hong Kong for rights i'll once again mention don't exist in his own country .

That's all well and good, but, again, that is not what he was doing and what people were criticizing. If he framed it like you just did he might be considered differently right now, but he most decidedly did not just say his opinion is as valid as Morey's or anyone elses. He did the opposite.

And if his knowledge is as great as you claim it is, then show it when you enter the breach, don't puff up your chest about your great and infinite wisdom vs. the inferior knowledge of others and expect that to be sufficient. He showed us nothing about that supposed great knowledge, but he sure made a lot of pretense about it. That my friend is straight up azzhole behavior. If you see it differently, then so be it.

you know if you are the kind of person who takes umbrage at behavior rather than the message so be it .

i personally didn't take it that way and probably would be more understanding even if i did ,I saw him as speaking up for people (himself included) that were put in a hostile environment unnecessarily.

i have personally been in a situation where i'm in a foreign country and people don't have best feelings about where i've come from , its not the best situation to find yourself in .

and my situation was no where near what Lebron James clearly went through but i can empathize because i've been in this country and see how we can treat people who our govt. and citizens treat as an enemy even when they personally did nothing to deserve that treatment.

and I'll keep mentioning fighting for Hong Kong for rights we don't personally as a nation enjoy comes off as silly to me and wasted energy . I need people to explain the urgency that Hong Kong's rights come before actual Americans in the same boat?

Puerto Rico is in a similar situation as are most US territories ...PR has been in this situation for over 100 years ,

Why should any American feel pressure to speak up for Hong Kong before their own Americans?

which is it just feels like manufactured outrage .

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[blanko]

That being said, for the record.
I beliece lebron is being consistent with his social activism. He carefully picks and chooses which issues to support to build his image and business.

And i have no problem with it.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[Stannis]

That being said, for the record.
I beliece lebron is being consistent with his social activism. He carefully picks and chooses which issues to support to build his image and business.

And i have no problem with it.

I think most understand that, and are ok with that. But disappointed in him throwing Morey under the bus. There was no need for that.

Apparently he asked Adam Silver if Morey would be punished or something. And was trying to claim that if a player did what Morey did, there would be ramifications. Which is dead wrong.

[E-Balla]

That's all well and good, but, again, that is not what he was doing and what people were criticizing. If he framed it like you just did he might be considered differently right now, but he most decidedly did not just say his opinion is as valid as Morey's or anyone elses. He did the opposite.

And if his knowledge is as great as you claim it is, then show it when you enter the breach, don't puff up your chest about your great and infinite wisdom vs. the inferior knowledge of others and expect that to be sufficient. He showed us nothing about that supposed great knowledge, but he sure made a lot of pretense about it. That my friend is straight up azzhole behavior. If you see it differently, then so be it.

you know if you are the kind of person who takes umbrage at behavior rather than the message so be it .

i personally didn't take it that way and probably would be more understanding even if i did ,I saw him as speaking up for people (himself included) that were put in a hostile environment unnecessarily.

i have personally been in a situation where i'm in a foreign country and people don't have best feelings about where i've come from , its not the best situation to find yourself in .

and my situation was no where near what Lebron James clearly went through but i can empathize because i've been in this country and see how we can treat people who our govt. and citizens treat as an enemy even when they personally did nothing to deserve that treatment.

and I'll keep mentioning fighting for Hong Kong for rights we don't personally as a nation enjoy comes off as silly to me and wasted energy . I need people to explain the urgency that Hong Kong's rights come before actual Americans in the same boat?

Puerto Rico is in a similar situation as are most US territories ...PR has been in this situation for over 100 years ,

Why should any American feel pressure to speak up for Hong Kong before their own Americans?

which is it just feels like manufactured outrage .

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Because even including the fact that their governor is elected people in Hong Kong have more rights than Puerto Ricans AND Americans?

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

And for economic freedom specifically they're #1 in the world:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Most human right indexes that separate Hong Kong from China show they have more rights than we do. What good does a vote do if you have less rights outside of voting? Like for all the criticism of China here, how many people do you think American police would've killed by now if we had a race riot that lasted that long and got that violent? Sometimes it's easier to point fingers than to look at ourselves. Now none of this means what China's doing is good, just means that China isn't some boogeyman way worse than the US.

[DOLPHIN2020]

you know if you are the kind of person who takes umbrage at behavior rather than the message so be it .

i personally didn't take it that way and probably would be more understanding even if i did ,I saw him as speaking up for people (himself included) that were put in a hostile environment unnecessarily.

i have personally been in a situation where i'm in a foreign country and people don't have best feelings about where i've come from , its not the best situation to find yourself in .

and my situation was no where near what Lebron James clearly went through but i can empathize because i've been in this country and see how we can treat people who our govt. and citizens treat as an enemy even when they personally did nothing to deserve that treatment.

and I'll keep mentioning fighting for Hong Kong for rights we don't personally as a nation enjoy comes off as silly to me and wasted energy . I need people to explain the urgency that Hong Kong's rights come before actual Americans in the same boat?

Puerto Rico is in a similar situation as are most US territories ...PR has been in this situation for over 100 years ,

Why should any American feel pressure to speak up for Hong Kong before their own Americans?

which is it just feels like manufactured outrage .

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Because even including the fact that their governor is elected people in Hong Kong have more rights than Puerto Ricans AND Americans?

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

And for economic freedom specifically they're #1 in the world:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Most human right indexes that separate Hong Kong from China show they have more rights than we do. What good does a vote do if you have less rights outside of voting? Like for all the criticism of China here, how many people do you think American police would've killed by now if we had a race riot that lasted that long and got that violent? Sometimes it's easier to point fingers than to look at ourselves. Now none of this means what China's doing is good, just means that China isn't some boogeyman way worse than the US.

[blanko]

you know if you are the kind of person who takes umbrage at behavior rather than the message so be it .

i personally didn't take it that way and probably would be more understanding even if i did ,I saw him as speaking up for people (himself included) that were put in a hostile environment unnecessarily.

i have personally been in a situation where i'm in a foreign country and people don't have best feelings about where i've come from , its not the best situation to find yourself in .

and my situation was no where near what Lebron James clearly went through but i can empathize because i've been in this country and see how we can treat people who our govt. and citizens treat as an enemy even when they personally did nothing to deserve that treatment.

and I'll keep mentioning fighting for Hong Kong for rights we don't personally as a nation enjoy comes off as silly to me and wasted energy . I need people to explain the urgency that Hong Kong's rights come before actual Americans in the same boat?

Puerto Rico is in a similar situation as are most US territories ...PR has been in this situation for over 100 years ,

Why should any American feel pressure to speak up for Hong Kong before their own Americans?

which is it just feels like manufactured outrage .

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Because even including the fact that their governor is elected people in Hong Kong have more rights than Puerto Ricans AND Americans?

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

And for economic freedom specifically they're #1 in the world:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Most human right indexes that separate Hong Kong from China show they have more rights than we do. What good does a vote do if you have less rights outside of voting? Like for all the criticism of China here, how many people do you think American police would've killed by now if we had a race riot that lasted that long and got that violent? Sometimes it's easier to point fingers than to look at ourselves. Now none of this means what China's doing is good, just means that China isn't some boogeyman way worse than the US.

China is committing genocide now on muslims. What the Israelis did to palestinians is going on times 2 in china.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[blanko]

you know if you are the kind of person who takes umbrage at behavior rather than the message so be it .

i personally didn't take it that way and probably would be more understanding even if i did ,I saw him as speaking up for people (himself included) that were put in a hostile environment unnecessarily.

i have personally been in a situation where i'm in a foreign country and people don't have best feelings about where i've come from , its not the best situation to find yourself in .

and my situation was no where near what Lebron James clearly went through but i can empathize because i've been in this country and see how we can treat people who our govt. and citizens treat as an enemy even when they personally did nothing to deserve that treatment.

and I'll keep mentioning fighting for Hong Kong for rights we don't personally as a nation enjoy comes off as silly to me and wasted energy . I need people to explain the urgency that Hong Kong's rights come before actual Americans in the same boat?

Puerto Rico is in a similar situation as are most US territories ...PR has been in this situation for over 100 years ,

Why should any American feel pressure to speak up for Hong Kong before their own Americans?

which is it just feels like manufactured outrage .

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Because even including the fact that their governor is elected people in Hong Kong have more rights than Puerto Ricans AND Americans?

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

And for economic freedom specifically they're #1 in the world:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Most human right indexes that separate Hong Kong from China show they have more rights than we do. What good does a vote do if you have less rights outside of voting? Like for all the criticism of China here, how many people do you think American police would've killed by now if we had a race riot that lasted that long and got that violent? Sometimes it's easier to point fingers than to look at ourselves. Now none of this means what China's doing is good, just means that China isn't some boogeyman way worse than the US.

All of these freedoms you deem so important arent true freedoms because Beijing can snatch it away at any time. There are no constitutional guarantees on said freedoms. And ecomic freedom aint **** when beijing can shut u down.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[E-Balla]

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Because even including the fact that their governor is elected people in Hong Kong have more rights than Puerto Ricans AND Americans?

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

And for economic freedom specifically they're #1 in the world:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Most human right indexes that separate Hong Kong from China show they have more rights than we do. What good does a vote do if you have less rights outside of voting? Like for all the criticism of China here, how many people do you think American police would've killed by now if we had a race riot that lasted that long and got that violent? Sometimes it's easier to point fingers than to look at ourselves. Now none of this means what China's doing is good, just means that China isn't some boogeyman way worse than the US.

China is committing genocide now on muslims. What the Israelis did to palestinians is going on times 2 in china.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

We're discussing Hong Kong. Mainland China has separate issues completely.

[E-Balla]

Puerto rico has the right to self determination. Independence, statehood, or keep thenstatus quo.

Hong kong doesnt have any of those options.

Puerto rico has the right to elect its govenors

Hong kongs governors are appointed by Beijing.

I mean how are these two situations even comparable?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Because even including the fact that their governor is elected people in Hong Kong have more rights than Puerto Ricans AND Americans?

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new

And for economic freedom specifically they're #1 in the world:
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Most human right indexes that separate Hong Kong from China show they have more rights than we do. What good does a vote do if you have less rights outside of voting? Like for all the criticism of China here, how many people do you think American police would've killed by now if we had a race riot that lasted that long and got that violent? Sometimes it's easier to point fingers than to look at ourselves. Now none of this means what China's doing is good, just means that China isn't some boogeyman way worse than the US.

All of these freedoms you deem so important arent true freedoms because Beijing can snatch it away at any time. There are no constitutional guarantees on said freedoms. And ecomic freedom aint **** when beijing can shut u down.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

And they have freedoms I wish I had at the same time. For example HK police aren't shooting minorities in their homes constantly and 1 in each 11 of that same minority group isn't subjected to slavery in jail. Also I live in Georgia, our elections are a sham.

[matchman]

To make things more complicated(lol), the source of this legislation, the suspect killer who was in prison in Hong Kong (due to money laundering, not murder, will explain later), will be released tomorrow day time.

Hong Kong government is telling people that, this suspect is now willing to voluntarily go to Taiwan (Republic of China) for judiciary action as he committed murder over there, and Hong Kong cannot put him in jury since the crime does not happen in Hong Kong even though he is HK ppl.

In the meantime, Taiwan (ROC) is rejecting this suggestion and would rather send a team to arrest him in Hong Kong and ask HK government to "co-operate" this process, and the dilemma is now in front of HK government:

If HK gov agrees this arrangement, that means the extradition law is completely unnecessary, and showing that they are not legislate to solve this particular case, but rather like conspirast said that this law is for sending HK resident to mainland instead. Worse thing is that Hong Kong would need to theoretically admit ROC legitimacy that must anger PRC.

If HK gov declines this arrangement and the suspect walks free in HK, although it may show the necessity of legislation(since it will prove the cost of no legislation), but this will give HK gov a worse reputation that they are not standing for justice, instead pleasing Beijing is more important than working with Taiwan to solve the problem.



P.S. Breaking news, HK gov declines Taiwan's suggestion, claim that Taiwan has no right to arrest anyone in HK territory. Oops.