knicks lose....i blame mpharris who blames thibs

[Guano]

Well that confirms it....Thibs will have Mikal guard Tatum the entire second round if we get past the first.

Thibs actually switched OG back on him after Tatum was torching Mikal.

Thibs blows just like the majority of your posts defending that clown. In your perfect world, you would be roommates with Randle, Durant and Thibs snuggling by the fireplace sipping on hot chocolate together.

I try not to kink shame but writing knicks realgm erotica is weird as hell, mate. There has to be healthier ways to handle this loss.

[JayTWill]

There’s only 2 seconds left in the game. With Brunson getting doubled you need to be looking at KAT. You live with the outcome but at least it’s going to your scorer and not Josh Hart. With 2 seconds left and your main option getting doubled, you will be taking a risk regardless so I rather see that pass to KAT than settling for that pass to Hart

It was 3 seconds left. The Celtics had multiple timeouts remaining. If he throws that ball early before even seeing if KP gets hung up on the Brunson screen or if White stays with Brunson that could have easily been a turnover. If it was under 1 second I can understand it since once the ball is touched the time will likely run out no matter what but if he throws that ball early and White, the best shot blocking guard in the league with great timing simply stays with KAT and intercepts the ball since you can't just throw it to the top of the square for KAT with his athleticism the Celtics would have still had time to win the game in regulation.

The same thing if KP doesn't get hung up on the screen for a split second. Mikal would essentially be throwing a lob to a better lob target in KP. For that to work the ball needed to be in the air before either of those things occurred with the team just hoping for the best results.

And Brunson wasn't doubled by White and KP. Holiday came over to take the passing lane away to Brunson late and by that time KP had recovered to KAT. Obviously the Celtics were going to try to take away options for the Knicks 2 best shot makers in Brunson and KAT so the question remains why even have Hart out there knowing he is not really a threat to score unless he has an open lane to the rim?

That’s the job of the guy inbounding the ball, to watch for the play develop. You can see who is reacting to what and there was plenty time to throw that lob but because it’s Mikal and he doesn’t have that type of awareness or IQ he just doesn’t make that play. He settles for the safe option. This is just one of the examples of how we lack in versatility. Celtics have multiple guys who could have made the read and pass as they have multiple guards and forwards with guard like abilities. We do not

Who throws a dangerous lob attempt with 3 seconds on the clock? Almost every out of bounds lob attempt in a late game situation will be with less than 1 second on the clock. The biggest benefit of a tie game in that situation is the ability to take the last shot or go to OT. Even if things miraculously played out the way you wanted it to the Knicks would have taken less than a second off the clock with the Celtics still having a chance to win the game in regulation with a scorching hot Tatum. The risk outweighed the reward substantially.

If Mikal throws that pass before even seeing the play develop you surely wouldn't be defending him when that play likely did not work. I'm not even sure if Thibs was looking for a lob in that situation. He may have been trying to create a switch or more confusion than actually occurred. How many lobs has KAT caught this year????

[Guano]

The percentage of teammate field goals a player assisted on while they were on the floor

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

[whocares1]

Not going to lie I don’t agree with the take that OG should’ve fouled Tatum. OG just straight up misplayed it. Part of the reason Tatum even got open is bc OG fell for a fake that made it seem like Tatum was breaking for the rim.

If you’re OG in that situation you have to know that Tatum isn’t going to take a layup down three. That was just straight up bad defense and bad situational awareness.

[3toheadmelo]

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

I’m pretty sure Thibs drew a play up and Boston blew it up which is why hart had to take that shot. I saw a stat earlier this season that said we were one of the best teams scoring on a play after a time out.

[Guano]

at the end of the day, losing a close game to them doesn't really matter that we need to analyze it to death. would you have been more convinced we can beat them 4 times out of 7 if we won ?

my biggest takeaway from this game for the possible series is that the jaylen brown injury seems serious and that might possibly give us a chance. albeit a small one.

We can always count on sham to be the ray of sunshine in times of darkness.

[Guano]

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

I’m pretty sure Thibs drew a play up and Boston blew it up which is why hart had to take that shot. I saw a stat earlier this season that said we were one of the best teams scoring on a play after a time out.

Seems like we struggle a lot to inbound the ball... and why is jHart in there. He shoots like sht. Should have been deuce.

And I'm sure those stats are nice cause Brunson is clutch.

[Knicksfan1992]

Just a quick note on the foul up 3 thing. I want to be clear I support fouling up 3 before the anti Thibs brigade jumps down my throat... The positives outweigh the negatives. However, there is some logic to not fouling and letting the cards fall where they may on a Celtics scramble attempt off an inbounds.

A) The Knicks were awful last night shooting FT's. You foul the Celtics and assume they make both. Now you open yourself up to straight up losing the game if you miss your FT. Worst they can do without fouling is tie the game and allow you to get the last shot which is what happened. That's literally the worst case scenario.

B) You also open yourself up to a situation where they try to miss a FT on purpose (I still have nightmares of the Luka game where ironically Thibs did foul up 3 lol)

C) If you mistime the foul there is a slim chance you cause a shooting foul to tie the game anyway.

Yes fouling up 3 makes sense but acting as if it's some foolproof plan is disingenuous. We've seen it backfire plenty of times.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

Not only that, but it was a big contrast between the stuff they were running late game, vs what we did. Yes they isolated Tatum, but they were also spamming screens with KP so he could get open looks from three.

The coach does not care that one player is blowing up our offense as long as he rebounds, it's absolutely incredible at this point. Mikal is off the ball because Hart has to be on it, KAT/Brunson can't run screens the way White/Pritchard & KP do because Hart's defender is playing a 1 man zone, we cannot set screens with Mitch when Hart is on the floor, because it's essentially two non shooting centers. I think we sold our anti-Hart stock too early, it's sky rocketing without us.


If a perimeter player is basically a center, just play a center instead.

[god shammgod]

at the end of the day, losing a close game to them doesn't really matter that we need to analyze it to death. would you have been more convinced we can beat them 4 times out of 7 if we won ?

my biggest takeaway from this game for the possible series is that the jaylen brown injury seems serious and that might possibly give us a chance. albeit a small one.

Honestly, a healthy Horford is more damaging to us than Brown, if he plays in that series we're cooked regardless of whether Brown is out or not. He misses a game, and it's close, he plays in the 3 others and it's blow out city, he has a +33 net rating against use which is highest on their team vs us.

He stops the KAT post ups with weakside help from KP, and on the other end they're still 5 out.

it didn't work yesterday but the knicks were able to really focus on tatum defensively because brown wasn't a threat. that wouldn't be the case if he was healthy. if kp, white, holiday beat you then so be it.

i would have liked to seen our double big lineup against theirs. if we could have bullied them on the boards.

[Capn'O]

at the end of the day, losing a close game to them doesn't really matter that we need to analyze it to death. would you have been more convinced we can beat them 4 times out of 7 if we won ?

my biggest takeaway from this game for the possible series is that the jaylen brown injury seems serious and that might possibly give us a chance. albeit a small one.

Horford is still a major player for them too. He takes away a lot of easy KAT looks we saw yesterday.

[Guano]

Not going to lie I don’t agree with the take that OG should’ve fouled Tatum. OG just straight up misplayed it. Part of the reason Tatum even got open is bc OG fell for a fake that made it seem like Tatum was breaking for the rim.

If you’re OG in that situation you have to know that Tatum isn’t going to take a layup down three. That was just straight up bad defense and bad situational awareness.

Youre not wrong - og fcked up

But it's the job of the coach to not to put your players in bad situations.

[HEZI]

It was 3 seconds left. The Celtics had multiple timeouts remaining. If he throws that ball early before even seeing if KP gets hung up on the Brunson screen or if White stays with Brunson that could have easily been a turnover. If it was under 1 second I can understand it since once the ball is touched the time will likely run out no matter what but if he throws that ball early and White, the best shot blocking guard in the league with great timing simply stays with KAT and intercepts the ball since you can't just throw it to the top of the square for KAT with his athleticism the Celtics would have still had time to win the game in regulation.

The same thing if KP doesn't get hung up on the screen for a split second. Mikal would essentially be throwing a lob to a better lob target in KP. For that to work the ball needed to be in the air before either of those things occurred with the team just hoping for the best results.

And Brunson wasn't doubled by White and KP. Holiday came over to take the passing lane away to Brunson late and by that time KP had recovered to KAT. Obviously the Celtics were going to try to take away options for the Knicks 2 best shot makers in Brunson and KAT so the question remains why even have Hart out there knowing he is not really a threat to score unless he has an open lane to the rim?

That’s the job of the guy inbounding the ball, to watch for the play develop. You can see who is reacting to what and there was plenty time to throw that lob but because it’s Mikal and he doesn’t have that type of awareness or IQ he just doesn’t make that play. He settles for the safe option. This is just one of the examples of how we lack in versatility. Celtics have multiple guys who could have made the read and pass as they have multiple guards and forwards with guard like abilities. We do not

Who throws a dangerous lob attempt with 3 seconds on the clock? Almost every out of bounds lob attempt in a late game situation will be with less than 1 second on the clock. The biggest benefit of a tie game in that situation is the ability to take the last shot or go to OT. Even if things miraculously played out the way you wanted it to the Knicks would have taken less than a second off the clock with the Celtics still having a chance to win the game in regulation with a scorching hot Tatum. The risk outweighed the reward substantially.

If Mikal throws that pass before even seeing the play develop you surely wouldn't be defending him when that play likely did not work. I'm not even sure if Thibs was looking for a lob in that situation. He may have been trying to create a switch or more confusion than actually occurred. How many lobs has KAT caught this year????

Dangerous lob attempt? Lmao it’s the basket we are scoring on there’s nothing dangerous it’s not the other basket. KAT was wide open. What play are you drawing up? I guarantee you it’s nothing that would have resulted in a better shot than the opportunity we had that we didn’t capitalize on.

Acting like KAT can’t catch a lob now, like he can’t make a layup

You have to throw a terrible pass for it to not go to KAT but this is Mikal we are talking about. The same airhead who fumbled a pass from KAT on the sideline and couldn’t catch a simple pass

[3toheadmelo]

Not going to lie I don’t agree with the take that OG should’ve fouled Tatum. OG just straight up misplayed it. Part of the reason Tatum even got open is bc OG fell for a fake that made it seem like Tatum was breaking for the rim.

If you’re OG in that situation you have to know that Tatum isn’t going to take a layup down three. That was just straight up bad defense and bad situational awareness.

Youre not wrong - og fcked up

But it's the job of the coach to not to put your players in bad situations.

While I agree we should’ve fouled, OG did really good on Tatum overall. Tatum just had better offense on great defense on that shot. I’ve never seen Tatum do a harden esque step back like that. Must’ve caught OG by surprise lol

[NoDopeOnSundays]

at the end of the day, losing a close game to them doesn't really matter that we need to analyze it to death. would you have been more convinced we can beat them 4 times out of 7 if we won ?

my biggest takeaway from this game for the possible series is that the jaylen brown injury seems serious and that might possibly give us a chance. albeit a small one.

Honestly, a healthy Horford is more damaging to us than Brown, if he plays in that series we're cooked regardless of whether Brown is out or not. He misses a game, and it's close, he plays in the 3 others and it's blow out city, he has a +33 net rating against use which is highest on their team vs us.

He stops the KAT post ups with weakside help from KP, and on the other end they're still 5 out.

it didn't work yesterday but the knicks were able to really focus on tatum defensively because brown wasn't a threat. that wouldn't be the case if he was healthy. if kp, white, holiday beat you then so be it.

i would have liked to seen our double big lineup against theirs. if we could have bullied them on the boards.

If I had to pick between the two of them, I'd want Horford to miss the series. I think we've done a better job on Brown, he's shooting 39% FG and 33% 3PT against us on the season, while Al is 50/50 from both.

[GONYK]

Knicks have the 3rd lowest ast% in the clutch

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

There are a few things here.

Josh Hart is a big reason why we can't run 1/5 PnRs, since the 5 is guarding him. Thus, we need to involve him as the screener instead of KAT. Hart is also the reason for a ton of positive stuff though, so I understand Thibs feeling the need to strike a balance.

Thibs unquestionably doesn't optimize "one possession" scenarios on either end. Lineups in one-possession scenarios should reflect the desired outcome. You want 3 points? Put your best 5 shooters on the floor. You want rebounds? Put your biggest 5 players on the floor (which he famously didn't do in Dallas 2 years ago when we pissed away a 9 point lead in a minute). This also comes up in certain scenarios where he pisses away challenges at meaningless points in the game. He usually wins them, but a challenge in the last 5 mins of a game is monumentally more impactful than one in the first half.

This foul up three thing has come up before this season and Thibs always freezes. It's one thing if he would just say he doesn't believe in doing it, but he never says that. He sort of equivocates.

The criticisms of Thibs are both valid and unfair in context because he's not the only one who does things like this and he's a hell of a lot better than the majority of coaches at a lot of other things.

The ISOing at the end of games though? I don't think that is one you can ding him for. What happens around the ISO is worth examining.

[HEZI]

Not going to lie I don’t agree with the take that OG should’ve fouled Tatum. OG just straight up misplayed it. Part of the reason Tatum even got open is bc OG fell for a fake that made it seem like Tatum was breaking for the rim.

If you’re OG in that situation you have to know that Tatum isn’t going to take a layup down three. That was just straight up bad defense and bad situational awareness.

Youre not wrong - og fcked up

But it's the job of the coach to not to put your players in bad situations.

While I agree we should’ve fouled, OG did really good on Tatum overall. Tatum just had better offense on great defense on that shot. I’ve never seen Tatum do a harden esque step back like that. Must’ve caught OG by surprise lol

Because he traveled but all these dudes travel and carry nowadays

[Guano]

The Knicks have the 4th best win % in the clutch and average the second most assists per game in clutch situations though.

Denver has the highest ast % in the clutch with 68%, but average 2.4 APG in clutch situations.

The Knicks have an ast% of 46.9%, but average 2.1 APG in clutch situations.

So what that says is that all teams ISO in the clutch.

I think this is obvious but there are ways to set it up better. Why have a nonshooter in jHart in the game with 3 secs left. We continue to have issues inbounding the ball. Small sht like that. We hardly ever run a PnR with kat and Brunson to put pressure on the d.

I think some of that stuff is valid. And also that it is a 1v1 game at the end a lot.

Not only that, but it was a big contrast between the stuff they were running late game, vs what we did. Yes they isolated Tatum, but they were also spamming screens with KP so he could get open looks from three.

The coach does not care that one player is blowing up our offense as long as he rebounds, it's absolutely incredible at this point. Mikal is off the ball because Hart has to be on it, KAT/Brunson can't run screens the way White/Pritchard & KP do because Hart's defender is playing a 1 man zone, we cannot set screens with Mitch when Hart is on the floor, because it's essentially two non shooting centers. I think we sold our anti-Hart stock too early, it's sky rocketing without us.


If a perimeter player is basically a center, just play a center instead.

Devastating that jHart has become such a liability and that terrible people(meLo) were right about him. Though jHart in the beginning of the year was money from 3 and well now he is back to being treated like he is draymond out there.

And it's noticeable how much he fcks up our spacing when we play a team like the Cs. They get such clean looks compared to ours. Cause they don't respect jHart at all on offense.

We have to find a starter to replace him in the offseason. I still think he is valuable off the bench. Just can't have him starting and to keep his mins under 30 a game.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Not going to lie I don’t agree with the take that OG should’ve fouled Tatum. OG just straight up misplayed it. Part of the reason Tatum even got open is bc OG fell for a fake that made it seem like Tatum was breaking for the rim.

If you’re OG in that situation you have to know that Tatum isn’t going to take a layup down three. That was just straight up bad defense and bad situational awareness.

That's why you foul before he even gets near the three point line


The team can talk over what to do after Tatum makes 2 freethrows, we get fouled take 2, and they get the ball back down 3 with 2 seconds left.

[GONYK]

Just a quick note on the foul up 3 thing. I want to be clear I support fouling up 3 before the anti Thibs brigade jumps down my throat... The positives outweigh the negatives. However, there is some logic to not fouling and letting the cards fall where they may on a Celtics scramble attempt off an inbounds.

A) The Knicks were awful last night shooting FT's. You foul the Celtics and assume they make both. Now you open yourself up to straight up losing the game if you miss your FT. Worst they can do without fouling is tie the game and allow you to get the last shot which is what happened. That's literally the worst case scenario.

B) You also open yourself up to a situation where they try to miss a FT on purpose (I still have nightmares of the Luka game where ironically Thibs did foul up 3 lol)

C) If you mistime the foul there is a slim chance you cause a shooting foul to tie the game anyway.

Yes fouling up 3 makes sense but acting as if it's some foolproof plan is disingenuous. We've seen it backfire plenty of times.

It's a philosophy thing. I don't care which side of the fence Thibs prefers, but he seems like he doesn't want to definitively pick one. That is where the confusion comes from and it seems to carry over with the team on the floor.