Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

And then the next time Shump drops 27 y'all will be on his D again so no point in arguing.

[Buggin Out]

For all the people who think Shump would be better in a different system or on a different team, then explain why he should be starting on this team?

We have two other SG in JR Smith and THJR, who can play well in this system, so why are they getting less burn then Shump, especially when Shump's D has been subpar.

If Shumpert hadn't been drafted by the Knicks many of you would be talking about trading him for peanuts at this point

[ORANGEandBLUE]

For all the people who think Shump would be better in a different system or on a different team, then explain why he should be starting on this team?

We have two other SG in JR Smith and THJR, who can play well in this system, so why are they getting less burn then Shump, especially when Shump's D has been subpar.

If Shumpert hadn't been drafted by the Knicks many of you would be talking about trading him for peanuts at this point

THJ plays terrible defense and JR is on pace for the worst shooting season ever.

Plus this team is capable of playing a style that Shump can excel in, as he shot well last year when we got ball movement. The goal should be to improve the overall style of play, not concede that all we can manage is iso-pound-chuck ball.

[Mike Breen]

While watching the game tonight, noticing how much Shump reaches in and fouls. Did some research and found that he commits the 2nd most fouls per 48 minutes than any guard who averages more than 24 minutes a game. 5th most among guards who average more than 20 minutes a game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/avg48Fouls/qualified/false/position/shooting-guards
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/fouls/sort/avg48Fouls/qualified/false/position/point-guards

[Thorn]

Look it is time to be honest about this entire organization, not just the team, and certainly not just one player.

Bottom line, we have the worst owner in sports which makes this team not worth supporting but as long as people keep spending their money on tickets and merchandise Dolan will laugh all the way to the bank despite the fact he is rubbish.

We the fans are the second largest thing wrong with the Knicks... behind Dolan.

Shump isn't even top 5.

[MaseInYourFace]

For all the people who think Shump would be better in a different system or on a different team, then explain why he should be starting on this team?

We have two other SG in JR Smith and THJR, who can play well in this system, so why are they getting less burn then Shump, especially when Shump's D has been subpar.

If Shumpert hadn't been drafted by the Knicks many of you would be talking about trading him for peanuts at this point

Subpar compared to our expectations of him and based on his prior performances but he is still the best perimeter defender on the team.

[Mike Breen]

For all the people who think Shump would be better in a different system or on a different team, then explain why he should be starting on this team?

We have two other SG in JR Smith and THJR, who can play well in this system, so why are they getting less burn then Shump, especially when Shump's D has been subpar.

If Shumpert hadn't been drafted by the Knicks many of you would be talking about trading him for peanuts at this point

Subpar compared to our expectations of him and based on his prior performances but he is still the best perimeter defender on the team.

I don't think you can even say that. Murry is better.

[MaseInYourFace]

Ehh maybe, murry's gotta do it for a longer time though. He hasn't even played half a season.

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

Shumpert IS NOT the major problem with this team look at:
Woodson, Felton, JR, Chandler, Melo, Udrih before Shump.

[dakomish]

Blaming Melo before Shump is true Knicks homerism. This guy, just like Felton JR Bargs Udrih, has been an abject failure this season. If he wasn't drafted by us Knicks fans would not defend this loser

[Thugger HBC]

Blaming Melo before Shump is true Knicks homerism. This guy, just like Felton JR Bargs Udrih, has been an abject failure this season. If he wasn't drafted by us Knicks fans would not defend this loser

if melo wasn't a knick, he wouldn't be defended either by Knicks fans.

Sent from my SGH M-919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Buggin Out]

For all the people who think Shump would be better in a different system or on a different team, then explain why he should be starting on this team?

We have two other SG in JR Smith and THJR, who can play well in this system, so why are they getting less burn then Shump, especially when Shump's D has been subpar.

If Shumpert hadn't been drafted by the Knicks many of you would be talking about trading him for peanuts at this point

THJ plays terrible defense and JR is on pace for the worst shooting season ever.

Plus this team is capable of playing a style that Shump can excel in, as he shot well last year when we got ball movement. The goal should be to improve the overall style of play, not concede that all we can manage is iso-pound-chuck ball.

JR has been playing better than Shump the last couple games before this last one and THJR offense out weight's Shump's subpar defense.

What style does Shump excede? A system where he gets wide open 3's? THJR and JR can hit open 3's better than Shump can.

If Shump can only play in a "special" system or on a "special" team than he isn't worth keeping around. Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler, Lance Stephenson, even Thabo "f*cking" Sefelosha are all similar players to Shump and they can produce on their teams.

Shump is not an impact player

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

Blaming Melo before Shump is true Knicks homerism. This guy, just like Felton JR Bargs Udrih, has been an abject failure this season. If he wasn't drafted by us Knicks fans would not defend this loser

This team is run through Melo, the offensive game plan isn't centered around Shump, Udrih, Felton, even JR. It's centered around one guy. And when 80% of the offensive play calls are ISO to that one player the system is flawed. Melo's played great I'm not criticizing his play more so the fact that the entire team is run through Meli. That's on Woodson too but at some point if your a leader of a team you have to recognize what's not working and adjust the game plan. I'm not saying Melo should go rogue but work with Woodson to find some sort of balance. This offensive game plan in no way helps develop the likes of hardaway jr or Shump or any young player on this team.

[GONYK]

Blaming Melo before Shump is true Knicks homerism. This guy, just like Felton JR Bargs Udrih, has been an abject failure this season. If he wasn't drafted by us Knicks fans would not defend this loser

This team is run through Melo, the offensive game plan isn't centered around Shump, Udrih, Felton, even JR. It's centered around one guy. And when 80% of the offensive play calls are ISO to that one player the system is flawed. Melo's played great I'm not criticizing his play more so the fact that the entire team is run through Meli. That's on Woodson too but at some point if your a leader of a team you have to recognize what's not working and adjust the game plan. I'm not saying Melo should go rogue but work with Woodson to find some sort of balance. This offensive game plan in no way helps develop the likes of hardaway jr or Shump or any young player on this team.

To be fair, it is hard to have different options when you have no PG

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

Blaming Melo before Shump is true Knicks homerism. This guy, just like Felton JR Bargs Udrih, has been an abject failure this season. If he wasn't drafted by us Knicks fans would not defend this loser

This team is run through Melo, the offensive game plan isn't centered around Shump, Udrih, Felton, even JR. It's centered around one guy. And when 80% of the offensive play calls are ISO to that one player the system is flawed. Melo's played great I'm not criticizing his play more so the fact that the entire team is run through Meli. That's on Woodson too but at some point if your a leader of a team you have to recognize what's not working and adjust the game plan. I'm not saying Melo should go rogue but work with Woodson to find some sort of balance. This offensive game plan in no way helps develop the likes of hardaway jr or Shump or any young player on this team.

To be fair, it is hard to have different options when you have no PG

I agree...that's why I find it so weird that with pretty much just the lose of J Kidd we can't run any form of offensive game plan. Kidd was a smart crafty vet but I can't think that his 20-25 mins would just completely be the difference between success and failure.

[GONYK]

This team is run through Melo, the offensive game plan isn't centered around Shump, Udrih, Felton, even JR. It's centered around one guy. And when 80% of the offensive play calls are ISO to that one player the system is flawed. Melo's played great I'm not criticizing his play more so the fact that the entire team is run through Meli. That's on Woodson too but at some point if your a leader of a team you have to recognize what's not working and adjust the game plan. I'm not saying Melo should go rogue but work with Woodson to find some sort of balance. This offensive game plan in no way helps develop the likes of hardaway jr or Shump or any young player on this team.

To be fair, it is hard to have different options when you have no PG

I agree...that's why I find it so weird that with pretty much just the lose of J Kidd we can't run any form of offensive game plan. Kidd was a smart crafty vet but I can't think that his 20-25 mins would just completely be the difference between success and failure.

It is not just the loss of Kidd though. It is also the steadfast refusal to start Pablo.

[HatersGonHate]

My thing is, Shump isn't here to score 20ppg that was never his destined role. 14-17 points max with great defense & intangibles. He can still become that but our team in every aspect is extremely inconsistent & Shumps poor play is a direct result of our teams inconsistency. When we have real ball movement Shumps overall game improves dramatically because he is an above average role player not a star or superstar so I feel it's unfair to judge him by star standards.
I fully recognize that Shump can't hit a shot & his FG%'s is terrible BUT it's hard to gain a rhythm when your the 5th option on a team with inconsistent play on both sides of the ball.
The game vs Atlanta when he had 9 assists showed me that Shump can contribute to winning basketball.
Notice when Shump grabs a board & pushes the ball up the court meanwhile the other 4 guys are taking their time crossing half court; that has to be discouraging.
Basically all I'm saying is it's u fair to blame Shump for not playing a good role on a team where only select people have roles. He's not a player who thrives in a slow paced iso heavy offense that frowns on transition baskets. To me, blaming Shump for playing bad is the equivalent to talking bad about a Porsche because it couldn't drive it up a snowy mountain.

What about JR Smith? Since he is our 2nd option who we gave the contract to who shot horrible all season also and it's his job to score.

17 points? In which world? Are they going to lengthen the normal NBA game to 68 mins? Here's some perspective: Dwight Howard and Tony Parker are around 18ppg.

[iHeartKNicks]

My thing is, Shump isn't here to score 20ppg that was never his destined role. 14-17 points max with great defense & intangibles. He can still become that but our team in every aspect is extremely inconsistent & Shumps poor play is a direct result of our teams inconsistency. When we have real ball movement Shumps overall game improves dramatically because he is an above average role player not a star or superstar so I feel it's unfair to judge him by star standards.
I fully recognize that Shump can't hit a shot & his FG%'s is terrible BUT it's hard to gain a rhythm when your the 5th option on a team with inconsistent play on both sides of the ball.
The game vs Atlanta when he had 9 assists showed me that Shump can contribute to winning basketball.
Notice when Shump grabs a board & pushes the ball up the court meanwhile the other 4 guys are taking their time crossing half court; that has to be discouraging.
Basically all I'm saying is it's u fair to blame Shump for not playing a good role on a team where only select people have roles. He's not a player who thrives in a slow paced iso heavy offense that frowns on transition baskets. To me, blaming Shump for playing bad is the equivalent to talking bad about a Porsche because it couldn't drive it up a snowy mountain.

What about JR Smith? Since he is our 2nd option who we gave the contract to who shot horrible all season also and it's his job to score.

17 points? In which world? Are they going to lengthen the normal NBA game to 68 mins? Here's some perspective: Dwight Howard and Tony Parker are around 18ppg.

It says 14-17 points MAX which means I maxed Shump out at 17 points. Which he is fully capable of doing in his prime, in the correct basketball system.
Got some more perspective for you: Shumpert isn't a center or a point guard. So in the fairness of this argument lets compare Shump to some shooting guards. Wesley Matthews 17 Gerald Henderson 15 ppg respectively. So Shump isn't talented enough to at least match that production (in the correct system)?

[HatersGonHate]

My thing is, Shump isn't here to score 20ppg that was never his destined role. 14-17 points max with great defense & intangibles. He can still become that but our team in every aspect is extremely inconsistent & Shumps poor play is a direct result of our teams inconsistency. When we have real ball movement Shumps overall game improves dramatically because he is an above average role player not a star or superstar so I feel it's unfair to judge him by star standards.
I fully recognize that Shump can't hit a shot & his FG%'s is terrible BUT it's hard to gain a rhythm when your the 5th option on a team with inconsistent play on both sides of the ball.
The game vs Atlanta when he had 9 assists showed me that Shump can contribute to winning basketball.
Notice when Shump grabs a board & pushes the ball up the court meanwhile the other 4 guys are taking their time crossing half court; that has to be discouraging.
Basically all I'm saying is it's u fair to blame Shump for not playing a good role on a team where only select people have roles. He's not a player who thrives in a slow paced iso heavy offense that frowns on transition baskets. To me, blaming Shump for playing bad is the equivalent to talking bad about a Porsche because it couldn't drive it up a snowy mountain.

What about JR Smith? Since he is our 2nd option who we gave the contract to who shot horrible all season also and it's his job to score.

17 points? In which world? Are they going to lengthen the normal NBA game to 68 mins? Here's some perspective: Dwight Howard and Tony Parker are around 18ppg.

It says 14-17 points MAX which means I maxed Shump out at 17 points. Which he is fully capable of doing in his prime, in the correct basketball system.
Got some more perspective for you: Shumpert isn't a center or a point guard. So in the fairness of this argument lets compare Shump to some shooting guards. Wesley Matthews 17 Gerald Henderson 15 ppg respectively. So Shump isn't talented enough to at least match that production (in the correct system)?

Huh? So points are supposed to come easier if you are a point guard?
What's the correct system? Name me a few teams (playoff teams preferably) where he would average 17ppg right now?

If that's the case, even more reason to trade him.
NYK: "We're putting Shumpert on the block"
Random GM: "But he can't shoot/score and never gets to the line."
NYK: "Yes, but in another system such as yours, he would average 150% points more." .... "Hello?"


WESLEY MATTHEWS?! Are you serious? NYK wishes they had him. Let's compare for kicks:

WM currently shooting 47%, and 42.5% from deep. In his rookie year (4 years ago, WM 48.3%, 9.4ppg)
Shumpert in his 3rd year - 39.1% FG%, 7.3ppg).


Please wake up to reality.

[iHeartKNicks]

Huh? So points are supposed to come easier if you are a point guard?
What's the correct system? Name me a few teams (playoff teams preferably) where he would average 17ppg right now?

If that's the case, even more reason to trade him.
NYK: "We're putting Shumpert on the block"
Random GM: "But he can't shoot/score and never gets to the line."
NYK: "Yes, but in another system such as yours, he would average 150% points more." .... "Hello?"


WESLEY MATTHEWS?! Are you serious? NYK wishes they had him. Let's compare for kicks:

WM currently shooting 47%, and 42.5% from deep. In his rookie year (4 years ago, WM 48.3%, 9.4ppg)
Shumpert in his 3rd year - 39.1% FG%, 7.3ppg).


Please wake up to reality.

Well, if you don't think Shumpert is capable of scoring doesn't really make sense for me to name teams in which he could because we'll disagree. I understand that we have conflicting views on Shump.
Shump is still capable of becoming a solid starting SG that has the intangibles to contribute to winning basketball IF he played in the right system. What is the right system for Shump? How about one where the coach maximizes the potential of his players, ALL of the players. Thats what coaches are supposed to do but Im not blaming Woodson for Shumps struggles he is clearly shooting horrible.

Now lets ask ourselves a question, who else this season has preformed well consistently besides Melo whom this system is designed for? Last season Shump played good. We actually watched him progress thru the season and I feel the main reasons for that is our offense had a rhythm. So we have success with rhythm in our offense, this season we lose with a stagnant stale predictable offense where Shumps the only guy shooting bad...

In my unrealistic opinion I feel with a change of coach where our offense has a flow to it Shumpert could improve on his postseason %'s of 41 & 43.
Eventually well get the answer to this question Shump will either get traded or Woodson will get replaced.