2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[WargamesX]

I don't think the cost to move up from 27 to the teens would be too much; in 2017 the Jazz traded #24 and Trey Lyles for #13. Lyles was coming off a rough year 2

it's also possible that a team looking to shed salary would swap or even trade away their pick to do so

teams might trade down just not to take on a high Rookie salary. For example, the Celtics are scheduled to be over the Luxury tax next year before they draft anyone and would have to add an extra 5 Million to take on their three draft picks.

[knickstape4ever]

I don't think the cost to move up from 27 to the teens would be too much; in 2017 the Jazz traded #24 and Trey Lyles for #13. Lyles was coming off a rough year 2

it's also possible that a team looking to shed salary would swap or even trade away their pick to do so

teams might trade down just not to take on a high Rookie salary. For example, the Celtics are scheduled to be over the Luxury tax next year before they draft anyone and would have to add an extra 5 Million to take on their three draft picks.

Celtics are a good example too; I thought of the Magic as a possibility

1 of Leon's goals should be to pickup another 1st rounder and take advantage of the our cap space at a time when its more valuable than ever

[WargamesX]

I don't think the cost to move up from 27 to the teens would be too much; in 2017 the Jazz traded #24 and Trey Lyles for #13. Lyles was coming off a rough year 2

it's also possible that a team looking to shed salary would swap or even trade away their pick to do so

teams might trade down just not to take on a high Rookie salary. For example, the Celtics are scheduled to be over the Luxury tax next year before they draft anyone and would have to add an extra 5 Million to take on their three draft picks.

Celtics are a good example too; I thought of the Magic as a possibility

1 of Leon's goals should be to pickup another 1st rounder and take advantage of the our cap space at a time when its more valuable than ever

Its a buyers market and for once we are in a position to take advantage of it...... It makes Leon's decision to hire Aller look very wise.

[knickstape4ever]

teams might trade down just not to take on a high Rookie salary. For example, the Celtics are scheduled to be over the Luxury tax next year before they draft anyone and would have to add an extra 5 Million to take on their three draft picks.

Celtics are a good example too; I thought of the Magic as a possibility

1 of Leon's goals should be to pickup another 1st rounder and take advantage of the our cap space at a time when its more valuable than ever

Its a buyers market and for once we are in a position to take advantage of it...... It makes Leon's decision to hire Aller look very wise.

I'm hoping Leon goes that route; we had the opportunity last offseason and inexplicably didn't; I seriously can't believe they dished out over 60M and couldn't use some of it to take on a bad contract + a draft pick. Did we seriously need Ellington?

[robillionaire]

Celtics are a good example too; I thought of the Magic as a possibility

1 of Leon's goals should be to pickup another 1st rounder and take advantage of the our cap space at a time when its more valuable than ever

Its a buyers market and for once we are in a position to take advantage of it...... It makes Leon's decision to hire Aller look very wise.

I'm hoping Leon goes that route; we had the opportunity last offseason and inexplicably didn't; I seriously can't believe they dished out over 60M and couldn't use some of it to take on a bad contract + a draft pick. Did we seriously need Ellington?

well they did do that in a roundabout way with morris, his 15m became a 1st and a 2nd. but yeah the rest was a waste

[knickstape4ever]

Its a buyers market and for once we are in a position to take advantage of it...... It makes Leon's decision to hire Aller look very wise.

I'm hoping Leon goes that route; we had the opportunity last offseason and inexplicably didn't; I seriously can't believe they dished out over 60M and couldn't use some of it to take on a bad contract + a draft pick. Did we seriously need Ellington?

well they did do that in a roundabout way with morris, his 15m became a 1st and a 2nd. but yeah the rest was a waste

thankfully they traded Morris and it'll be nice to have an extra 1st as well as a 2nd that'll be top 40 in a deep draft next year

but I don't think the intention was to trade Morris when they signed him; Mills/Perry seemed to legitimately gun for a playoff spot

[robillionaire]

I'm hoping Leon goes that route; we had the opportunity last offseason and inexplicably didn't; I seriously can't believe they dished out over 60M and couldn't use some of it to take on a bad contract + a draft pick. Did we seriously need Ellington?

well they did do that in a roundabout way with morris, his 15m became a 1st and a 2nd. but yeah the rest was a waste

thankfully they traded Morris and it'll be nice to have an extra 1st as well as a 2nd that'll be top 40 in a deep draft next year

but I don't think the intention was to trade Morris when they signed him; Mills/Perry seemed to legitimately gun for a playoff spot

I agree. We got lucky he outplayed his contract. And from what we hear, Mills STILL wanted to keep him. Thankfully Perry got it done

[KnicksGadfly]

I'm hoping Leon goes that route; we had the opportunity last offseason and inexplicably didn't; I seriously can't believe they dished out over 60M and couldn't use some of it to take on a bad contract + a draft pick. Did we seriously need Ellington?

well they did do that in a roundabout way with morris, his 15m became a 1st and a 2nd. but yeah the rest was a waste

thankfully they traded Morris and it'll be nice to have an extra 1st as well as a 2nd that'll be top 40 in a deep draft next year

but I don't think the intention was to trade Morris when they signed him; Mills/Perry seemed to legitimately gun for a playoff spot

I think the argument was that we could have ditched most of our expirings for 1sts during the deadline. We got seriously lucky that we even signed Morris in the first place, given that we stole him from the Spurs (not that I mind).

[RHODEY]

Hayes potentially could be a two way Deangelo.

Yes with better passing skills

[RHODEY]

The only asset I think wouldn't be that bad to give up is the Mavs 2023 pick because of the protections. However, that was before I heard about the cap. Now that the cap is going down/frozen picks are going to be worth more until contracts balance out. We could probably move up this draft just by taking on salary alone.

Another thing to think about is when the "one and done" rule stops. If that happens in 2023 you are talking abut a much bigger talent pool....

[3toheadmelo]

If we have the ability to trade up for any of Wiseman, Lamelo, Edwards without giving up much I would sign up for it all day. Those 3 are in a tier alone in this draft.

[HEZI]

Hayes potentially could be a two way Deangelo.

Yes with better passing skills

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

[WargamesX]

Hayes potentially could be a two way Deangelo.

Yes with better passing skills

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

Wow! Beno was left handed and came in so unatheletic he had a dad bod his whole time in the league. That is some grade A hating through a comparisons. Also yeah Hayes looks slow in Europe. That shouldn’t be brushed over.

[moocow007]

Read on Twitter

Nothing wrong with that. As I've said forever. The NBA is about star power. The Knicks have none. Would make sense if it's within reason.

[moocow007]

cole probably won't be as bad as people are making him out to be. almost getting trae young vibes with how much hate he gets leading up to the draft, probably going to end up embarrassing some folks. i was never really high on him and the criticisms of his season are mostly fair but I think we're deep into underrated territory. if we get him 7-10 I can't be mad at it although i'd still rather trade up

Based on what? The two are nothing alike.

[moocow007]

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/25/cole-anthony-scouting-report-2/

Passing: Not a very good passer, though better than what he’s shown at UNC. Makes basic reads (drop-offs, swings, some kickouts), but not a preternatural passer / makes plays for others before they happen. He sees and then passes, nothing advanced (for the most part, just passing to the open teammates). As with finishing, clogged lanes and lack of spacing make it difficult to see some passing lanes, though he’s still missing wide open looks that he should be making. The pre-determining when he’s going to attack / that he’s going to make a move leads itself here, too à he misses open passes he should be making. Not a fan of his general passing touch – has some odd turnovers because the pass is (way) too high. Not a a great decision-maker in the HC, as he forces looks that aren’t really there, or are in a crowded area (extra spacing in NBA could help get some of these through, but others are just non-looks). Looks like he’s sometimes playing as if he’s in either scoring mode or facilitating mode – like, he knows what he wants to do before, instead of reading and reacting. Pretty good decision maker in transition.

That is the Cole Anthony that I've seen play.

[RHODEY]

Hayes potentially could be a two way Deangelo.

Yes with better passing skills

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

[RHODEY]

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/25/cole-anthony-scouting-report-2/

Passing: Not a very good passer, though better than what he’s shown at UNC. Makes basic reads (drop-offs, swings, some kickouts), but not a preternatural passer / makes plays for others before they happen. He sees and then passes, nothing advanced (for the most part, just passing to the open teammates). As with finishing, clogged lanes and lack of spacing make it difficult to see some passing lanes, though he’s still missing wide open looks that he should be making. The pre-determining when he’s going to attack / that he’s going to make a move leads itself here, too à he misses open passes he should be making. Not a fan of his general passing touch – has some odd turnovers because the pass is (way) too high. Not a a great decision-maker in the HC, as he forces looks that aren’t really there, or are in a crowded area (extra spacing in NBA could help get some of these through, but others are just non-looks). Looks like he’s sometimes playing as if he’s in either scoring mode or facilitating mode – like, he knows what he wants to do before, instead of reading and reacting. Pretty good decision maker in transition.

That is the Cole Anthony that I've seen play.

Right but I guess that doesn't matter to his supporters....

[moocow007]

3 point shooting emphasis is fine, when it's for role players and guys down lower in the draft.

And that sir is my point. Folks may have missed the part where I was specifically responding to the OP who had Nesmith being the 6th overall pick. To take Nesmith 6th overall would ABSOLUTELY be over inflating the emphasis on 3 point shooting. The Knicks need someone that can take their bottom of the barrel **** ass inefficient offense and make it better not a guy that can shoot spot up 3's. Spot up 3's is not going to make the Knicks 28th ranked offensive efficiency better. A 3 point shooter is not going to prevent the Knicks from having to rely on RJ Barrett to be a POINT SG or Julius Randle from having to be Lebron James in trying to create offense for himself and others on a crap team (neither of which either guy has any business being) or prevent a team that still looks like it's totally lost on offense. The Knicks need a shot creator, someone that can run and offense and create easy shot opportunities for himself and others. Failing that, the Knicks need someone that can be a no.1 option that can create his own shot easily (something that RJ Barrett and Julius Randle...and pretty much every single Knick...struggled with mightily last season). When the guy that can best create his own shot is a 2nd rounder from the previous seasons draft that you barely play, it's pretty clear what they need (the only guy that I would trust in being able to create his own shot in crunch time on this team is ISO Zo...and that's not a good thing).

Halliburton

As a what? Haliburton doesn't have the greatest handles and he has problems creating shots off the dribble. Against NBA defenses, I would not trust him to be able to create his own shot consistently especially crunch time or against top defenders. He has excellent straight line speed and he has length, but that doesn't create shots of the dribble. Haliburton wouldn't address any of the Knicks main needs. He would peg in as a potentially solid combo guard off the bench or maybe a pseudo SG if the Knicks end up with a CP3 at point. I am telling you guys, Tyrese Haliburton is not an NBA starting PG. I said this when folks were going ga-ga over Kris Dunn coming out of Providence (show of hands those of you that were going nuts on Dunn in the 2016 draft, come on, I got a plate of crow for those guys) and Frank Ntilikina coming out of France (and Mardy Collins coming out of Temple, remember him guys? he was supposed to be the next Knicks PG cause he was big lol). Just because a guy played the point in college or overseas doesn't mean he can do so in the NBA (Mardy Collins for example played in one of the slowest and methodical offensive systems in college history and have very little that he was required to do from a PG standpoint, but boy oh boy he's 6'5"-6'6" so he's got to be the next great PG). I'm really not sure why folks assume that there's a natural progression. Now Haliburton has better offensive skills but not as good defensively as the former two, but none of the three would I want as my starting PG. They don't have the ball skills. I'd honestly trust Cole Anthony more to be my starting PG than Haliburton since at least Cole Anthony is a PG (a head down score first PG, but at least a PG).

[RHODEY]

Yes with better passing skills

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

Wow! Beno was left handed and came in so unatheletic he had a dad bod his whole time in the league. That is some grade A hating through a comparisons. Also yeah Hayes looks slow in Europe. That shouldn’t be brushed over.

He's not the most athletic , which is not to say he's "slow to me.

Athleticism / Frame Overview:

Not a great athlete, but showed noticeable improvement from last year to this year and given age & improvements so far, there is reason to believe that more athletic improvements can be made
Not very quick laterally / does not have much vertical pop
Has great balance and stop and go ability
Good frame with room to pack on strength – strong quads for age

But like Luka his athleticism is in no way a limiting factor...this kid knows how to get to his spots ...and just knows how to play.

Watch on YouTube