2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16!

[Deeeez Knicks]

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/06/24/cole-anthony-nba-draft-north-carolina

Williams defended the go-to guard’s role in the team’s dismal season, calling the supporting cast “the least gifted” he’d overseen in his 32 seasons as a head coach.

“Such a rash of injuries and bad plays and bad luck and bad coaching,” Williams says. “We needed him to penetrate and throw the ball to himself.”[/quote]

“His shot needs to get better, his decision-making needs to get better, his strength and conditioning needs to get better,” Williams says. “But he’s got it, the I-T. No one will outwork Cole.”

Cole—who Williams says was “tremendously easy to coach”—notes that he wasn’t confident until a growth spurt in seventh grade and that he’s likely overcompensating now. He attributes his fire to his “will to win.” but concedes he is working to become less combative.

Good read. A lot of interesting quotes from coach Williams

Didn't know about this part

Then there’s the issue of his temperament. One NBA scout says he “needs to learn to manifest his competitiveness in a more constructive manner. He can be overly demonstrative, especially when his teammates make mistakes. His attitude tends to be the biggest hesitation teams have.”

[HEZI]

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/06/24/cole-anthony-nba-draft-north-carolina

Williams defended the go-to guard’s role in the team’s dismal season, calling the supporting cast “the least gifted” he’d overseen in his 32 seasons as a head coach.

“Such a rash of injuries and bad plays and bad luck and bad coaching,” Williams says. “We needed him to penetrate and throw the ball to himself.”[/quote]

Good read. A lot of interesting quotes from coach Williams

Didn't know about this part

Then there’s the issue of his temperament. One NBA scout says he “needs to learn to manifest his competitiveness in a more constructive manner. He can be overly demonstrative, especially when his teammates make mistakes. His attitude tends to be the biggest hesitation teams have.”

Yeah I'm not putting much into one NBA scouts view of things. There's nothing about attitude problems coming from his coaches or teammates. In fact, the people inside the trenches have said the opposite about him.

[mpharris36]

Besides having a basic handle, their playing styles are much different.

The best comparison for Frank is Theo Maledon

'I wouldn't just say handles.

I think they are both high IQ players, I think they both have excellent length, I think both are good defenders, they both aren't crazy athletes, I think they both have good vision. I think they both struggle to get into the paint consistently. I think they both struggle to be the main playmaker on an offense.

I think the big different is that Haliburton seems like he has proven (at least in college) to be a more consistent shooter.

Haliburton’s vision is significantly better than Frank. That’s the big difference. Haliburton was the best passer in college this season. Frank is not even close to that level. That’s why Frank is just a 3 and D guy.

I disagree overall that haliburton has significantly better vision. I have seen Frank make very nice passes and reads (his overall issue was simply being able to break down a defense - which I also see with haliburton at the next level) if the pass was there he is good at finding the open guy. I would love to see the synergy stats but I would probably say Frank is more effective in the P&R then Haliburton.

Haliburton ranked in the 25th percentile (considered below avg) in P&R passing and while he makes the right reads...he doesn't really force any passes either. And I like Haliburton

Also I don't know why Frank is a 3/D guy when he hasn't been good at shooting 3's . He's actually very successful as a P&R ball handler.

[HarthorneWingo]

Yea, I can see what you are saying and agree that Haliburton has a chance to improve on some things. Even if not, still looks like he should be a really good player even if he just ends up as a Lonzo Ball/Brogdon type...I see those guys as more as just 3D/Frank types.

JUST 3D/Frank types?

Spoiler:

:evil:

Just saying, that Haliburton can really pass and make plays. He is more pass-first then shoot-first, but he is more then a guy that is gonna sit in the corner and shoot 3's.

I was just busting balls. But I appreciate the response.

[HarthorneWingo]

Did your great great great great grandchild teach you how to do that?

[mpharris36]

jesus

[robillionaire]

Frank will be better on defense than Haliburton. He’s taller and larger wingspan as well. Haliburton should be solid on D but not on the level of frank. That said Haliburton if he can sustain his ncaa shooting percentage will still be more valuable than Frank unless frank magically shoots 38% instead of 32%. I don’t think his playmaking is all that much better than current frank, none of it seems impressive to me and frank does ok when he’s not playing timid and giving up the ball at halfcourt. He had that 20 pt 10 ast game recently. Never forget.

[moocow007]

Just in case you guys are wondering, this is an example of how a once mighty and (mostly) sane Knick fan crumbles after years and years of sheer and utter disappointment. You don't see what sham does with the frank after he threw it...nor do you want to.

[mpharris36]

Just in case you guys are wondering, this is an example of how a once mighty and (mostly) sane Knick fan crumbles after years and years of sheer and utter disappointment. You don't see what sham does with the frank after he threw it...nor do you want to.

[3toheadmelo]

'I wouldn't just say handles.

I think they are both high IQ players, I think they both have excellent length, I think both are good defenders, they both aren't crazy athletes, I think they both have good vision. I think they both struggle to get into the paint consistently. I think they both struggle to be the main playmaker on an offense.

I think the big different is that Haliburton seems like he has proven (at least in college) to be a more consistent shooter.

Haliburton’s vision is significantly better than Frank. That’s the big difference. Haliburton was the best passer in college this season. Frank is not even close to that level. That’s why Frank is just a 3 and D guy.

I disagree overall that haliburton has significantly better vision. I have seen Frank make very nice passes and reads (his overall issue was simply being able to break down a defense - which I also see with haliburton at the next level) if the pass was there he is good at finding the open guy. I would love to see the synergy stats but I would probably say Frank is more effective in the P&R then Haliburton.

Haliburton ranked in the 25th percentile (considered below avg) in P&R passing and while he makes the right reads...he doesn't really force any passes either. And I like Haliburton

Also I don't know why Frank is a 3/D guy when he hasn't been good at shooting 3's . He's actually very successful as a P&R ball handler.

Like Deez has said, Frank is just a basic passer and Haliburton can make special reads. Frank is a significantly worse playmaker than Haliburton. Haliburton even had a game in college with 17 assists. The consensus around Haliburton is that he is the best playmaker in the draft behind Lamelo.

Even the very first play here stands out. Frank doesn't have this type of creativity.

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[3toheadmelo]

Frank is just not capable of making plays like this.

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[Deeeez Knicks]

Give me all the Frank's

[mpharris36]

Frank will be better on defense than Haliburton. He’s taller and larger wingspan as well. Haliburton should be solid on D but not on the level of frank. That said Haliburton if he can sustain his ncaa shooting percentage will still be more valuable than Frank unless frank magically shoots 38% instead of 32%. I don’t think his playmaking is all that much better than current frank, none of it seems impressive to me and frank does ok when he’s not playing timid and giving up the ball at halfcourt. He had that 20 pt 10 ast game recently. Never forget.

[mpharris36]

Haliburton’s vision is significantly better than Frank. That’s the big difference. Haliburton was the best passer in college this season. Frank is not even close to that level. That’s why Frank is just a 3 and D guy.

I disagree overall that haliburton has significantly better vision. I have seen Frank make very nice passes and reads (his overall issue was simply being able to break down a defense - which I also see with haliburton at the next level) if the pass was there he is good at finding the open guy. I would love to see the synergy stats but I would probably say Frank is more effective in the P&R then Haliburton.

Haliburton ranked in the 25th percentile (considered below avg) in P&R passing and while he makes the right reads...he doesn't really force any passes either. And I like Haliburton

Also I don't know why Frank is a 3/D guy when he hasn't been good at shooting 3's . He's actually very successful as a P&R ball handler.

Like Deez has said, Frank is just a basic passer and Haliburton can make special reads. Frank is a significantly worse playmaker than Frank. Haliburton even had a game in college with 17 assists. The consensus around Haliburton is that he is the best playmaker in the draft behind Lamelo.

Even the very first play here stands out. Frank doesn't have this type of creativity.

Read on Twitter

haliburton is not a better playmaker than Hayes.

Haliburton is good with what he's good at. He has no mid range game and a many of jump passes that he gets away with college he will not be able to do in the pros.

He is a great transition player, great C&S shoot player. I would not call him a great playmaker. He doesn't get into the paint or beat his main of the dribble how exactly will he be playmaking at that high of a level?

Frank had a higher PPP (points per possession) in the P&R than Haliburton but Haliburton is some great playmaker and frank is not good?

[mpharris36]

I got highlights of passes too

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[knickstape4ever]

Frank is just not capable of making plays like this.

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Frank isn't the level of passer I think we expected when he was drafted. IMO his role will ultimately be a 3-D player, secondary ball handler

I'm still high on Frank's potential as a good role player, b/c I'm betting that the jumper will improve as he's still just 21/22

my concern tho with Haliburton is that he doesn't attack the rim enough; not sure if that's b/c he lacks strength, or his mentality. also not sure the low release on the jumper will translate like it did in college. with bigger, faster defenders closing out on his shot, it might be more difficult for him to get his shot off, and he's not much of a threat off the dribble. I think his jump shot mechanics will improve tho as he gets stronger

[3toheadmelo]

I disagree overall that haliburton has significantly better vision. I have seen Frank make very nice passes and reads (his overall issue was simply being able to break down a defense - which I also see with haliburton at the next level) if the pass was there he is good at finding the open guy. I would love to see the synergy stats but I would probably say Frank is more effective in the P&R then Haliburton.

Haliburton ranked in the 25th percentile (considered below avg) in P&R passing and while he makes the right reads...he doesn't really force any passes either. And I like Haliburton

Also I don't know why Frank is a 3/D guy when he hasn't been good at shooting 3's . He's actually very successful as a P&R ball handler.

Like Deez has said, Frank is just a basic passer and Haliburton can make special reads. Frank is a significantly worse playmaker than Frank. Haliburton even had a game in college with 17 assists. The consensus around Haliburton is that he is the best playmaker in the draft behind Lamelo.

Even the very first play here stands out. Frank doesn't have this type of creativity.

Read on Twitter

haliburton is not a better playmaker than Hayes.

Haliburton is good with what he's good at. He has no mid range game and a many of jump passes that he gets away with college he will not be able to do in the pros.

He is a great transition player, great C&S shoot player. I would not call him a great playmaker. He doesn't get into the paint or beat his main of the dribble how exactly will he be playmaking at that high of a level?

Frank had a higher PPP (points per possession) in the P&R than Haliburton but Haliburton is some great playmaker and frank is not good?

Meet Lonzo Ball.

Watch on YouTube

[3toheadmelo]

I got highlights of passes too

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

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Thanks for proving my point with a bunch of basic passes

[mpharris36]

Like Deez has said, Frank is just a basic passer and Haliburton can make special reads. Frank is a significantly worse playmaker than Frank. Haliburton even had a game in college with 17 assists. The consensus around Haliburton is that he is the best playmaker in the draft behind Lamelo.

Even the very first play here stands out. Frank doesn't have this type of creativity.

Read on Twitter

haliburton is not a better playmaker than Hayes.

Haliburton is good with what he's good at. He has no mid range game and a many of jump passes that he gets away with college he will not be able to do in the pros.

He is a great transition player, great C&S shoot player. I would not call him a great playmaker. He doesn't get into the paint or beat his main of the dribble how exactly will he be playmaking at that high of a level?

Frank had a higher PPP (points per possession) in the P&R than Haliburton but Haliburton is some great playmaker and frank is not good?

Meet Lonzo Ball.

Watch on YouTube

i mean I wouldn't call him a "great" playmaker. He's a good ball mover and very good transition passer I will give him that. He is no Jason Kidd level playmaker. Lonzo is amazing in transition. But was in the 12th percentile in P&R. So he isn't a great half court playmaker at all.

Also I mean you and I could avg 7 assists passing to Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson That is no knock on Lonzo as a player but he was avg 5 assists per game the first few months of the year. Then when Zion came back he started avg 8-9 assists per game.

[mpharris36]

I got highlights of passes too

Spoiler:

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Thanks for proving my point with a bunch of basic passes

basic...