Around the NBA - Randle >>>> Harden etc

[robillionaire]

Thats still unfair to say. At the end of the day it’s unrealistic to expect anyone to be a star from day 1. The Knicks didn’t take him to be a win now player, they took him because they felt he was the best player available to them. It’s really that simple. It’s not even about the age either, he’s a bad pick because he isn’t versatile in a league that demands it, and he plays at a less than premium position.

That's what the expectations were set at by the people who wanted him

Everyone talking about how he's gonna be RotY, he's BPA, et cetera

I mean, he could be good. He could be really good, even

But the fact is, he absolutely was taken to be really good right away, not a couple years down the line. FO didn't want to tell the fans to be patient while we develop a more project type player, so they went with who they thought would be best right away. So if it's even arguable between him and say Haliburton, it's a bad pick cause the expectation was for him to blow everyone else out of the water from the start

I still say the three year rule applies for him, but it's just a bit comical that we drafted him specifically because we wouldn't need to give him 3 years to develop while the other kids taken after him would, and he's gonna be backing up Randle until he's 25 at this rate, which is the same age Randle was when he signed with us.

People were supporting the pick on the basis that they thought Randle would be traded or benched and he would start on day 1, yes. Turns out Randle is now playing like a borderline all-star. All things considered this is a positive development for us and a good problem to have so it's hard to be too upset about it. Toppin will get his opportunities, I'm fine seeing what we have in Randle whether it's longer term or getting value for him in a trade.

[KnicksGadfly]

Just let the kid play.

This is all happening because Randle and the team are playing well. Y'all were ready to trade Randle for what was assumed to be the deadweight corpse of Batum before the season started. Frankly the only person who can be complaining that we shouldn't have taken Obi because we had Randle is Melo.

It's still a matter of if Obi looks like he has a role at this level and we really don't know that yet. He's played one game and from all indications we haven't really seen him healthy yet. If we have Obi playing like he deserves a starter role and Randle is playing like an All Star it's a good problem to have. We can make moves from that position.

The issue is, if he's only playing at a starter level, there are guys taken right after him playing at a starter level who have enough versatility to be plugged into any lineup where Obi is the opposite of versatile

That's also not taking into account the 2-3 year age difference. We took him to be head and shoulders better than anyone else available, and if he's only as good as those taken after him, combine that with his rigid positionness and the age thing, and it's not a good pick. He needs to be a star from day 1 to justify the pick at this rate.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Thats still unfair to say. At the end of the day it’s unrealistic to expect anyone to be a star from day 1. The Knicks didn’t take him to be a win now player, they took him because they felt he was the best player available to them. It’s really that simple. It’s not even about the age either, he’s a bad pick because he isn’t versatile in a league that demands it, and he plays at a less than premium position.

Right. I agree with you about his weaknesses. The defenses, the rebounding, the fit...this stuff was alarming. But at the same time, the reports, the arguments, his age, and even the presence of Thibs...all this points to the fact that he was supposed to ready to go. And maybe he is...we haven’t gotten to see him play that much yet. I can even understand...we’ve drafted really young players in Frank and Knox already and gotten very little in return. Why not draft a more ready player?

BPA is a very subjective bar, but from all accounts on this forum, it felt like he was drafted to be ready to contribute at a high level from day 1 and I’m not going to budge off that, and I hope that the fans who were really in favor of Obi don’t budge off that either.

[DOT]

People were supporting the pick on the basis that they thought Randle would be traded or benched and he would start on day 1, yes. Turns out Randle is now playing like a borderline all-star. All things considered this is a positive development for us and a good problem to have so it's hard to be too upset about it. Toppin will get his opportunities, I'm fine seeing what we have in Randle whether it's longer term or getting value for him in a trade.

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

[Zenzibar]

The issue is, if he's only playing at a starter level, there are guys taken right after him playing at a starter level who have enough versatility to be plugged into any lineup where Obi is the opposite of versatile

That's also not taking into account the 2-3 year age difference. We took him to be head and shoulders better than anyone else available, and if he's only as good as those taken after him, combine that with his rigid positionness and the age thing, and it's not a good pick. He needs to be a star from day 1 to justify the pick at this rate.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Thats still unfair to say. At the end of the day it’s unrealistic to expect anyone to be a star from day 1. The Knicks didn’t take him to be a win now player, they took him because they felt he was the best player available to them. It’s really that simple. It’s not even about the age either, he’s a bad pick because he isn’t versatile in a league that demands it, and he plays at a less than premium position.

Right. I agree with you about his weaknesses. The defenses, the rebounding, the fit...this stuff was alarming. But at the same time, the reports, the arguments, his age, and even the presence of Thibs...all this points to the fact that he was supposed to ready to go. And maybe he is...we haven’t gotten to see him play that much yet. I can even understand...we’ve drafted really young players in Frank and Knox already and gotten very little in return. Why not draft a more ready player?

BPA is a very subjective bar, but from all accounts on this forum, it felt like he was drafted to be ready to contribute at a high level from day 1 and I’m not going to budge off that, and I hope that the fans who were really in favor of Obi don’t budge off that either.

Exactly. To me Obi is also being held out while the coaches work to elevate his game. The Team can affrd that nw because Randle has exploded on the scene.

95% of the Board was convinced Obi would be gone by the 8th pick and were focused on Okoro, Vassell, Williams, Haliburton, and Hayes as a long shot. So Obi was the BPA and only because Haliburton is having a great start is there a question.

If Obi turns out to be Tobias Harris so be it, as Tobias is a starter on a possible Finals contender. Not a bad outcome.

[cgf]

People were supporting the pick on the basis that they thought Randle would be traded or benched and he would start on day 1, yes. Turns out Randle is now playing like a borderline all-star. All things considered this is a positive development for us and a good problem to have so it's hard to be too upset about it. Toppin will get his opportunities, I'm fine seeing what we have in Randle whether it's longer term or getting value for him in a trade.

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

We don't know that yet. I get why you are assuming it, I did before the season too, but our Julius at the 5 looks have been surprisingly effective for stretches...so I expect Thibs to try subbing Obi in for Mitch next to Julius for 5-10 minutes; as well as the minutes that Julius is on the bench for.

Until it becomes a problem, I wouldn't leap to assuming that a Julius, Mitch & Obi big man rotation won't work while Toppin develops.

[knickstape4ever]

Read on Twitter

[DOT]

To me Obi is also being held out while the coaches work to elevate his game.

Man, remember this:

No waiting 2 years for Obi, just plug and play.

Good times.

[DOT]

People were supporting the pick on the basis that they thought Randle would be traded or benched and he would start on day 1, yes. Turns out Randle is now playing like a borderline all-star. All things considered this is a positive development for us and a good problem to have so it's hard to be too upset about it. Toppin will get his opportunities, I'm fine seeing what we have in Randle whether it's longer term or getting value for him in a trade.

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

We don't know that yet. I get why you are assuming it, I did before the season too, but our Julius at the 5 looks have been surprisingly effective for stretches...so I expect Thibs to try subbing Obi in for Mitch next to Julius for 5-10 minutes; as well as the minutes that Julius is on the bench for.

Until it becomes a problem, I wouldn't leap to assuming that a Julius, Mitch & Obi big man rotation won't work while Toppin develops.

We drafted a 23 year old at 8 who needs time to develop

Fantastic.

[Zenzibar]

To me Obi is also being held out while the coaches work to elevate his game.

Man, remember this:

No waiting 2 years for Obi, just plug and play.

Good times.

Dude, get off my dick. My girl is trying to get some time.

[3toheadmelo]

Y’all worse than me when we passed up DSJ for Frank lol

[DOT]

Dude, get off my dick. My girl is trying to get some time.

Someone's mad their words came back to bite them so soon lol.

[3toheadmelo]

Just let the kid play.

This is all happening because Randle and the team are playing well. Y'all were ready to trade Randle for what was assumed to be the deadweight corpse of Batum before the season started. Frankly the only person who can be complaining that we shouldn't have taken Obi because we had Randle is Melo.

It's still a matter of if Obi looks like he has a role at this level and we really don't know that yet. He's played one game and from all indications we haven't really seen him healthy yet. If we have Obi playing like he deserves a starter role and Randle is playing like an All Star it's a good problem to have. We can make moves from that position.

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

[Reign23]

Would you guys trade for Rozier? I can see the Hornets tryna trade Rozier or Graham (no thx tho) to start Lamelo.

I would. They will likely try to move Monk too.

DSJ/Frank for Rozier/Monk.

why malik monk. god please no

[Context]

it’s unreal some of you jerks won’t give this kid more then a game, where he was fricking hurt, before burying him.

and I never wanted obi

they never learn

[Zenzibar]

Dude, get off my dick. My girl is trying to get some time.

Someone's mad their words came back to bite them so soon lol.

You're digging back on old threads to troll users on this forum, that's being a dick. Why are you paying so much attention to me or my posts? Is that your methodology of moderating the forum?

[DOT]

Just let the kid play.

This is all happening because Randle and the team are playing well. Y'all were ready to trade Randle for what was assumed to be the deadweight corpse of Batum before the season started. Frankly the only person who can be complaining that we shouldn't have taken Obi because we had Randle is Melo.

It's still a matter of if Obi looks like he has a role at this level and we really don't know that yet. He's played one game and from all indications we haven't really seen him healthy yet. If we have Obi playing like he deserves a starter role and Randle is playing like an All Star it's a good problem to have. We can make moves from that position.

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

[Zenzibar]

Just let the kid play.

This is all happening because Randle and the team are playing well. Y'all were ready to trade Randle for what was assumed to be the deadweight corpse of Batum before the season started. Frankly the only person who can be complaining that we shouldn't have taken Obi because we had Randle is Melo.

It's still a matter of if Obi looks like he has a role at this level and we really don't know that yet. He's played one game and from all indications we haven't really seen him healthy yet. If we have Obi playing like he deserves a starter role and Randle is playing like an All Star it's a good problem to have. We can make moves from that position.

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

Let's remind ourselves:


Synergy Stats: Obi Toppin Scouting Report
About Obi Toppin

Position: PF
Height/Weight: 6-9 / 220 lbs
School/Club: Dayton
Status: Sophomore
Birthday: 03/04/1998
Draft Home | Draft Board | Teams | Prospects

Obi Toppin was widely regarded as the most valuable player in college basketball last season, building on a breakout redshirt freshman year to propel Dayton to an AP Top-5 ranking. The son of former professional basketball journeyman Obadiah Toppin, he took a winding path to the highest honors college basketball has to offer. A lightly regarded member of the high school class of 2016, Toppin opted to take a fifth year at Mt Zion Prep (MD) to little attention. Growing some in his late teens, he garnered several quality offers that season ultimately choosing Dayton where he was ruled academically ineligible in his first year under Head Coach Anthony Grant. Biding his time and emerging as one of the best freshman in the A-10 last season, Toppin garnered NBA buzz but opted to return to school.

Averaging 20 points, 7.5 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game on gaudy efficiency numbers as the focal point of a revamped offense that was arguably the top unit in the country, he was rewarded for his choice as he captured nearly every college player of the year honor and showed improvement in several key areas to bolster his standing ahead of the 2020 NBA Draft.

Possessing good size for a power forward at 6-foot-9 with a 6-foot-10.5 wingspan and a solid 220-pound frame, Toppin is an explosive leaper who lead college basketball in dunks by a significant margin.

Asserting himself in a variety of ways last season, Toppin relished the way Dayton spaced the floor as his ability to score one-on-one on the block, find angles to finish emphatically working with and without the ball, and budding ability to step out and make jump shots were magnified in the Flyers’ NBA-style system. Putting together one of the most efficient scoring seasons for a high-volume scorer in the last five years, Toppin was dominant for stretches.

Displaying good instincts getting in the passing lanes and the explosiveness to protect the rim, Toppin had some positive moments defensively although he often looked to avoid foul trouble. More powerful than quick as an athlete, he is still finding a comfort level against more dynamic perimeter scorers at the power forward spot.

Defensive Analysis

Showing some instincts on the defensive end, Toppin was not steadily disruptive last season but displays a strong feel for the game and uses verticality pretty well even if he is not especially long.

Allowing 0.70 points per post up possession [74th percentile], he appeared most comfortable guarding inside, though he gives up size in some matchups. Looking to avoid fouls last season, Toppin’s ability to use his physicality inside or acclimate to sliding on the perimeter will define where he fits in defensively long-term.

Career Highlights

2019-20 National Player of the Year honors from the AP, NABC, USBWA, Wooden Award, Oscar Robertson Award and Naismith Trophy, among others.
Unanimous 2019-20 All-America First Team selection, Dayton’s first consensus All-American.
2019-20 Karl Malone Power Forward of the Year.
2019-20 Atlantic 10 Player of the Year and All-Atlantic 10 First Team pick.
In 2018-19, named Atlantic 10 Rookie of the Year and an All-Atlantic 10 First Team choice.
Has the highest career field goal percentage in Dayton history (64.7).

Sophomore (2019-20)

Averaged 20.0 points and 7.5 rebounds while shooting 63.3 percent from the field and 39.0 percent from three-point range.
Was sixth in the nation (and first in A-10) in field goal percentage.
Scored a career-high 31 points and had a school-record 10 dunks vs. North Florida (Dec. 30).
Helped Dayton (29-2) become the first team to go 18-0 in the A-10 in 35 years.

Strengths

Explosive leaper and finisher.
Runs the floor exceptionally well.
Scores both inside and out.
Capable defender and rim protector.

Personal

Sat out the 2017-18 season at Dayton as an academic redshirt.
Stood 6-2 as a high school junior and 6-5 as a senior before growing into his current frame.
Played only one season of varsity basketball in high school and did not receive a Division I scholarship offer as a senior at Ossining in New York. Played one year at Mt. Zion Prep in Baltimore.

Quotable

"A lot of people say I have a body build like Amar’e Stoudemire [and] I play a little bit like Al Horford because he can shoot and stretch the floor.”

[Reign23]

People were supporting the pick on the basis that they thought Randle would be traded or benched and he would start on day 1, yes. Turns out Randle is now playing like a borderline all-star. All things considered this is a positive development for us and a good problem to have so it's hard to be too upset about it. Toppin will get his opportunities, I'm fine seeing what we have in Randle whether it's longer term or getting value for him in a trade.

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

this. all of this.
And i don't know why some of you think he will get 25-30 minutes or some ****. He can play ONE position. that one where our currently best player plays (the league leader in minutes, you know). Thibs wants to win every single game and will ride Randle. He also loves defense and will play Mitch/Noel and Taj at the 5 for 48 minutes.

it just sucks. you need to trade one of Obi or Randle.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

Randle & Mitch for was 2021 pick unprotected and Ian mahimi!!!!!!!!

[Context]

this is going to be so good when TWENTY THREE YEAR OLD Obi balls on some of you