PG: GRIMES Shines. Stat Whore Randle Throws in the Towel

[god shammgod]

You know, seeing Grimes go off like that reminded me of something I was saying in the offseason

We draft guys who are older and supposedly more ready to play right away instead of younger, more "potential" guys who might need a few years to sit and develop in the G League, but then we treat the guys we take as if they are those developmental type guys

Obi clearly isn't getting enough minutes. Grimes while not having much time did show yesterday he should have a regular spot in the rotation. Deuce could very much be the same

It's just weird how we took guys who are ready to play but we don't play them, and instead give out long term deals to mediocre at best vets.

It seems like they have all this money to spend and then they feel they have to spend it. Then they feel they need to play them to get their money's worth.

But it really isn't a good way to do things.

i said all along they should have just pushed the cap space another year. give julius another year to prove his worth for a big contract. there's plenty of guys who end up disappointed with the market and take 1 year deals. it's how we got all these guys that are here in the 1st place. outside of rose who's easily movable, nobody was irreplaceable. but they were scared that maybe they would get a little worse. well they did anyway.

[thebuzzardman]

You know, seeing Grimes go off like that reminded me of something I was saying in the offseason

We draft guys who are older and supposedly more ready to play right away instead of younger, more "potential" guys who might need a few years to sit and develop in the G League, but then we treat the guys we take as if they are those developmental type guys

Obi clearly isn't getting enough minutes. Grimes while not having much time did show yesterday he should have a regular spot in the rotation. Deuce could very much be the same

It's just weird how we took guys who are ready to play but we don't play them, and instead give out long term deals to mediocre at best vets.

Didn't you yourself says guys like Grimes and McBride, drafted in the 30's, really won't be that great, which to me implies role players of limited minutes.

I mean, I get Shamms point the Knicks put a number of players ahead of those two guards. Obi's situation is more understandable in the light of how Antoine Randle did last year - other than the obvious play them together some, but is a team that is trying to win some games really going to trust a guard rotation of Rose/Burks/IQ/RJ/Grimes/McBride?

Of course, they totally bolo'd it with Fournierskin and Kemba, but I can kind of understand it.

Yeah, I think they'll be good, not great guys. McBride I really can't see starting except in certain cases, but I could see Grimes being a low level starter

It's really the fact that, we essentially drafted cheap role players, but then overpaid vet role players to put in front of them, when they should have replaced them. And now we have a lot of money tied up into mediocre vets who really don't have trade value, so it's worth less than if we had just done nothing.

I no longer have faith in the FO.

But, last year, when it was obvious they needed a PG, they got one at the trade deadline.
They also let IQ play when his play and injuries forced the hand, and when a glut built up at SG, benched Rivers and sent him packing.

The only hope is that with Grimes emerging, Knicks will look to deal Burks. I mean, Kemba is still on the team, so there's a backup PG. Fournier pretty sure we are stuck with this year and next.

They also have FOUR centers, for God's sake. Again, I'd like to hope they look at that critical mass at the position and trade one.

Probably not.

[thebuzzardman]

Just to address the Ben Simmons fantasies. It was covered - the guy has issues in the head and also on the court, where his lack of shooting make it difficult to roster build around him.

The Knicks feature a roster with 3 C's who are offensive liabilities and one who is aging and is Thibs Herb Williams.

Simmons and those guys would be a disaster. Plus, Obi can't really shoot jumpers, who I assume would be replacing Randle who somehow goes for Simmons.

Simmons - yikes
Grimes
RJ
Obi - yikes
Mitch or Noel - yikes

Knicks would see 100% zones. Score 60 points a game.

[god shammgod]

Just to address the Ben Simmons fantasies. It was covered - the guy has issues in the head and also on the court, where his lack of shooting make it difficult to roster build around him.

The Knicks feature a roster with 3 C's who are offensive liabilities and one who is aging and is Thibs Herb Williams.

Simmons and those guys would be a disaster. Plus, Obi can't really shoot jumpers, who I assume would be replacing Randle who somehow goes for Simmons.

Simmons - yikes
Grimes
RJ
Obi - yikes
Mitch or Noel - yikes

Knicks would see 100% zones. Score 60 points a game.

we're not getting him anyway. there's no way there aren't better deals for the sixers. and randle doesn't fit there so it would have to be a 3 way deal with someone like portland. would protland rather have randle than simmons ? doubt it.

[Deeeez Knicks]

You know, seeing Grimes go off like that reminded me of something I was saying in the offseason

We draft guys who are older and supposedly more ready to play right away instead of younger, more "potential" guys who might need a few years to sit and develop in the G League, but then we treat the guys we take as if they are those developmental type guys

Obi clearly isn't getting enough minutes. Grimes while not having much time did show yesterday he should have a regular spot in the rotation. Deuce could very much be the same

It's just weird how we took guys who are ready to play but we don't play them, and instead give out long term deals to mediocre at best vets.

It seems like they have all this money to spend and then they feel they have to spend it. Then they feel they need to play them to get their money's worth.

But it really isn't a good way to do things.

i said all along they should have just pushed the cap space another year. give julius another year to prove his worth for a big contract. there's plenty of guys who end up disappointed with the market and take 1 year deals. it's how we got all these guys that are here in the 1st place. outside of rose who's easily movable, nobody was irreplaceable. but they were scared that maybe they would get a little worse. well they did anyway.

Yea, they went a little too far in building around Randle and making him our guy. I know he is not paid as a #1 guy, but its more of the commitment to building around him and the roster choices. We wasted a lot of money on replaceable backup players, and the worst part of that is they block our younger/cheaper players from getting time.

[prophet_of_rage]

The starting lineup isn't going to work if it doesn't include a perimeter defender.

The only difference between last season and this season is the Knicks not having a defender in the backcourt.

And a real PG. Payton was mediocre but we at least had a PG.

Payton wasn't the point guard last season. Payton brought the ball up the court, ran to the side Julius was on and gave him the ball, and every thing went through Julius.

Same as this year.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[thebuzzardman]

Just to address the Ben Simmons fantasies. It was covered - the guy has issues in the head and also on the court, where his lack of shooting make it difficult to roster build around him.

The Knicks feature a roster with 3 C's who are offensive liabilities and one who is aging and is Thibs Herb Williams.

Simmons and those guys would be a disaster. Plus, Obi can't really shoot jumpers, who I assume would be replacing Randle who somehow goes for Simmons.

Simmons - yikes
Grimes
RJ
Obi - yikes
Mitch or Noel - yikes

Knicks would see 100% zones. Score 60 points a game.

we're not getting him anyway. there's no way there aren't better deals for the sixers. and randle doesn't fit there so it would have to be a 3 way deal with someone like portland. would protland rather have randle than simmons ? doubt it.

And that Randle can't be traded until February.

Unless they are going to play Randle and Simmons TOGETHER!

I'm sort of looking forward to the Knicks being more capped out, with less future assets and a worse fitting team.
That's when I really shine as a poster.

[whocares1]

You know, seeing Grimes go off like that reminded me of something I was saying in the offseason

We draft guys who are older and supposedly more ready to play right away instead of younger, more "potential" guys who might need a few years to sit and develop in the G League, but then we treat the guys we take as if they are those developmental type guys

Obi clearly isn't getting enough minutes. Grimes while not having much time did show yesterday he should have a regular spot in the rotation. Deuce could very much be the same

It's just weird how we took guys who are ready to play but we don't play them, and instead give out long term deals to mediocre at best vets.

It seems like they have all this money to spend and then they feel they have to spend it. Then they feel they need to play them to get their money's worth.

But it really isn't a good way to do things.

i said all along they should have just pushed the cap space another year. give julius another year to prove his worth for a big contract. there's plenty of guys who end up disappointed with the market and take 1 year deals. it's how we got all these guys that are here in the 1st place. outside of rose who's easily movable, nobody was irreplaceable. but they were scared that maybe they would get a little worse. well they did anyway.

That’s probably what you do on paper but giving Randle another season to prove his worth when he just compiled a complete All NBA level season and was the best player on a Knicks team that overperformed into a 4th seed would look bad for optics around the league.

Very similar to how players felt Isaiah Thomas was slighted in Boston. The issue was a FO not being on the same page as their coaching staff when they probably wanted to rebuild but instead let Thibs go for meaningless wins in a lost season. Clearly they drafted Obi in mind to replace Randle but they wanted a veil sense of legitimacy and they hired a big name coach who wants to win over everything else.

[god shammgod]

It seems like they have all this money to spend and then they feel they have to spend it. Then they feel they need to play them to get their money's worth.

But it really isn't a good way to do things.

i said all along they should have just pushed the cap space another year. give julius another year to prove his worth for a big contract. there's plenty of guys who end up disappointed with the market and take 1 year deals. it's how we got all these guys that are here in the 1st place. outside of rose who's easily movable, nobody was irreplaceable. but they were scared that maybe they would get a little worse. well they did anyway.

That’s probably what you do on paper but giving Randle another season to prove his worth when he just compiled a complete All NBA level season and was the best player on a Knicks team that overperformed into a 4th seed would look bad for optics around the league.

Very similar to how players felt Isaiah Thomas was slighted in Boston. The issue was a FO not being on the same page as their coaching staff when they probably wanted to rebuild but instead let Thibs go for meaningless wins in a lost season. Clearly they drafted Obi in mind to replace Randle but they wanted a veil sense of legitimacy and they hired a big name coach who wants to win over everything else.

how do the optics look now ? you had good optics for 3 months. congratulations.

[robillionaire]

Read on Twitter

Somebody check on 3tothehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nerlens is also positive Mitch very negative IJS

They both aren't very good, just in slightly different ways. One needs to go. They can get rid of Herb Gibson while they are at it.

We are tanking so we should just get rid of both and start Sims and Samanic until we can get another young center

[nedleeds]

I'm not going to retread my recent posts about Knicks getting Turner, or some fantasy move for Simmons, or is there a way they can get a G/SF in here with some real skills or maybe a backup PG, but the trade deadline is 2 days away. For me, it's a chance for the FO to PARTIALLY redeem itself. I can't envision a move or moves that solves everything. But I need to see something. I'll accept if no moves happen - it takes two to deal and other teams want to get better too.
But competent FO's seem to find a way.
If the Knicks don't make a move, it's another sign this FO is in over it's head.
I mean, I think it's obvious they are.

We shall see.

Search your feelings. You can't improve this roster in anyway that does anything other than chase the 8th seed.

I said I wouldn't retread the trades. I think you make the trades that get the 8th seed, but only in ways that don't increase the cap or give up too many assets. Maybe try to get a little younger. Get a pick from a contender for Rose or Burks.

Basically, I want to see the FO acknowledge the team isn't it and start the process of fixing it, knowing that it's a several moves, couple of years effort.

Couple years to me is not acknowledging reality, as painful as it is, 5 years is more likely. There's nothing resembling a top 25 player or a top 5 pick with the current approach. We need top 5 picks and multiple other 1st round shots to find a top 20 player.

If a trade isn't taking on **** salary and getting picks, or just getting picks, or getting somebody under 25 I want no part of it. Getting a better backup point guard is a waste to me. Just start IQ, play McBride as backup, the end ... that's this FO recognizing this roster just isn't close. That's really the crux of it. Reality is this roster doesn't have anything close to a top 25 player on it.

Let me frame this another way ... if the Blazers released Dame. Just cut him and ate his salary. Dame woke up and said I'm signing with the Knicks for the vet minimum. We'd be the 6th seed and wouldn't be favored to make the conference finals. Let that sink in. Even with Dame for free we wouldn't be favored to make the conference finals, let alone win a title. That's how far off we are.

Put a free Dame on the Raptors, Celtics, Heat or Bulls. Ask yourself what those teams odds would be?

[nedleeds]

i said all along they should have just pushed the cap space another year. give julius another year to prove his worth for a big contract. there's plenty of guys who end up disappointed with the market and take 1 year deals. it's how we got all these guys that are here in the 1st place. outside of rose who's easily movable, nobody was irreplaceable. but they were scared that maybe they would get a little worse. well they did anyway.

That’s probably what you do on paper but giving Randle another season to prove his worth when he just compiled a complete All NBA level season and was the best player on a Knicks team that overperformed into a 4th seed would look bad for optics around the league.

Very similar to how players felt Isaiah Thomas was slighted in Boston. The issue was a FO not being on the same page as their coaching staff when they probably wanted to rebuild but instead let Thibs go for meaningless wins in a lost season. Clearly they drafted Obi in mind to replace Randle but they wanted a veil sense of legitimacy and they hired a big name coach who wants to win over everything else.

how do the optics look now ? you had good optics for 3 months. congratulations.

Nobody gives a **** about I.T. he was washed and hasn't played a meaningful minute. Tatum and Brown both signed their max deals. Kemba came and signed his albatross. Yeah Kyrie left but he's a **** lunatic. All the culcha, optics crap is a complete farce. Develop great young players and have 1 or 2 top 25 players on your roster, that's it.

[nedleeds]

I have a case of the Mondays thinking about how these clowns are going to screw this up even worse.

[god shammgod]

That’s probably what you do on paper but giving Randle another season to prove his worth when he just compiled a complete All NBA level season and was the best player on a Knicks team that overperformed into a 4th seed would look bad for optics around the league.

Very similar to how players felt Isaiah Thomas was slighted in Boston. The issue was a FO not being on the same page as their coaching staff when they probably wanted to rebuild but instead let Thibs go for meaningless wins in a lost season. Clearly they drafted Obi in mind to replace Randle but they wanted a veil sense of legitimacy and they hired a big name coach who wants to win over everything else.

how do the optics look now ? you had good optics for 3 months. congratulations.

Nobody gives a **** about I.T. he was washed and hasn't played a meaningful minute. Tatum and Brown both signed their max deals. Kemba came and signed his albatross. Yeah Kyrie left but he's a **** lunatic. All the culcha, optics crap is a complete farce. Develop great young players and have 1 or 2 top 25 players on your roster, that's it.

the knicks love to talk about culture. talk about talent.

[god shammgod]

I have a case of the Mondays thinking about how these clowns are going to screw this up even worse.

they probably will try to double down by making some trade for better role players while giving up draft assets in the process to solidify a 1st round knockout. and the people here will applaud.

[Clyde_Style]

how do the optics look now ? you had good optics for 3 months. congratulations.

Nobody gives a **** about I.T. he was washed and hasn't played a meaningful minute. Tatum and Brown both signed their max deals. Kemba came and signed his albatross. Yeah Kyrie left but he's a **** lunatic. All the culcha, optics crap is a complete farce. Develop great young players and have 1 or 2 top 25 players on your roster, that's it.

the knicks love to talk about culture. talk about talent.

Let’s talk about sex

[nedleeds]

I have a case of the Mondays thinking about how these clowns are going to screw this up even worse.

they probably will try to double down by making some trade for better role players while giving up draft assets in the process to solidify a 1st round knockout. and the people here will applaud.

[evevale]

I have a case of the Mondays thinking about how these clowns are going to screw this up even worse.

they probably will try to double down by making some trade for better role players while giving up draft assets in the process to solidify a 1st round knockout. and the people here will applaud.

uhm ... gross?

[thebuzzardman]

Search your feelings. You can't improve this roster in anyway that does anything other than chase the 8th seed.

I said I wouldn't retread the trades. I think you make the trades that get the 8th seed, but only in ways that don't increase the cap or give up too many assets. Maybe try to get a little younger. Get a pick from a contender for Rose or Burks.

Basically, I want to see the FO acknowledge the team isn't it and start the process of fixing it, knowing that it's a several moves, couple of years effort.

Couple years to me is not acknowledging reality, as painful as it is, 5 years is more likely. There's nothing resembling a top 25 player or a top 5 pick with the current approach. We need top 5 picks and multiple other 1st round shots to find a top 20 player.

If a trade isn't taking on **** salary and getting picks, or just getting picks, or getting somebody under 25 I want no part of it. Getting a better backup point guard is a waste to me. Just start IQ, play McBride as backup, the end ... that's this FO recognizing this roster just isn't close. That's really the crux of it. Reality is this roster doesn't have anything close to a top 25 player on it.

Let me frame this another way ... if the Blazers released Dame. Just cut him and ate his salary. Dame woke up and said I'm signing with the Knicks for the vet minimum. We'd be the 6th seed and wouldn't be favored to make the conference finals. Let that sink in. Even with Dame for free we wouldn't be favored to make the conference finals, let alone win a title. That's how far off we are.

Put a free Dame on the Raptors, Celtics, Heat or Bulls. Ask yourself what those teams odds would be?

I don't want Dame

Maybe it takes more than 2 years. I'm just putting myself into their two year timeline. What they put together is plainly not working. Now they need to start making moves to fix it. In that context, I'm acknowledging there are enough issues that no single trade is fixing anything.

Hey, I'd like to tank as much as the next guy. As usual the Knicks are in no mans land. At least I want them to see them make the team a little better and/or a little younger and/or a somewhat more logical fit of players. To start trying to do that.

[thebuzzardman]

Nobody gives a **** about I.T. he was washed and hasn't played a meaningful minute. Tatum and Brown both signed their max deals. Kemba came and signed his albatross. Yeah Kyrie left but he's a **** lunatic. All the culcha, optics crap is a complete farce. Develop great young players and have 1 or 2 top 25 players on your roster, that's it.

the knicks love to talk about culture. talk about talent.

Let’s talk about sex

Are those season ticket holders getting f*cked in the ass or what?