Donovan Mitchell Thread #6 - Something might actually happen in this one!!!!!!

[The Vo Show]

When the team's primary option is Randle he doesn't do much for team chemistry, his assists don't translate into great team offense. With no PG to run the offense a young guy like RJ as a second option often is generating his own opportunities so it will result as inconsistent production and the team suffers because they need him to produce effectively and efficiently.

With a PG like Brunson who will be getting the team into sets, breaking down the defense and spraying the ball around when he isn't converting at the high rate he's known for RJ will benefit from the stability and consistency he brings as a PG. So it's possible he will improve his efficiency and consistency even if his counting stats and shots go down a little bit because he's now the third option.

Of course if Mitchell comes along that forces RJ even further down the food chain on offense but this is the long run could be an incredible opportunity for him to work on his game and improve without the pressure of the team's fortunes falling on him and his development. Which means in 4 years when he's coming into his own prime we will see a more finished product without lamenting the growing pains.

This. I would say that's what happened with Wiggins on the Warriors.

Don't know much about Wiggins but he doesn't seem like the guy who wants to be #1. RJ seems like the kind of guy who does want to be #1 though. I'd like to think RJ gets better and eventually grows into a #1 or #2 guy but I agree with Ibraheim that once D Mitch comes, RJ's chances of ever reaching his ceiling becomes a lot lower. He's just not going to have enough usage to grow.

[HarthorneWingo]

If some of you don't think RJ Barrett's self-confidence takes a hit when a franchise behaves like a fiending crackhead you're crazy. He knows they don't believe in his talent. He can fake it and hide but trust me he knows.

RJ's not a no. 1. At least not now. Assuming we trade for Donovan and trade Randle to the Lakers, he's a no. 3 option.

Besides, it's not about all that like who's no.1 or no. 3 or whatever. It's about the team's chemistry. It's about the total being greater than the sum of its parts. Just like the '70 and '73 championship teams. You've got to move the ball; share the ball; and hit the open man. We saw what a failure Melo was as being "the guy". But he wasn't and nobody on our team right now is either and that's including Mitchell. Nobody on our team is that good where we can just feed one player like the Sixers fed Wilt; the Bucks fed Jabbar; etc. We have to play team ball to do some damage in the playoffs. Check the egos at the door.

[Ghetto Gospel]

That is so **** sad man.

show me where the real money is, and don't say it's RJ

The real money is to root against the team.

you also see the problem. it's not that i'm choosing the cubic zirconia over the diamond, it's just that diamond doesn't exist for us

[robillionaire]

They wouldn't be in on the the tank if they thought Mitchell was s a player worth building around.

he is a player worth building around for some other team, just not for them because it's well known that he doesn't want to be there anymore

He ain't that guy.. he's just the next guy I'm going to come on here and flame when he disappoints everyone. Some of you are going to believe in him and he's going to let you down just like he let Jazz fans down when they were up 3-1 on Denver.

You know the only time Knicks fans were on the right path was when they were going to protest at MSG.

feel free to go protest then, but it will likely fall on deaf ears as fans will be excited and enjoying the rare experience of winning games and the resurgence of donovan mitchell as he goes next level in the environment that he was made for

[Ghetto Gospel]

When the team's primary option is Randle he doesn't do much for team chemistry, his assists don't translate into great team offense. With no PG to run the offense a young guy like RJ as a second option often is generating his own opportunities so it will result as inconsistent production and the team suffers because they need him to produce effectively and efficiently.

With a PG like Brunson who will be getting the team into sets, breaking down the defense and spraying the ball around when he isn't converting at the high rate he's known for RJ will benefit from the stability and consistency he brings as a PG. So it's possible he will improve his efficiency and consistency even if his counting stats and shots go down a little bit because he's now the third option.

Of course if Mitchell comes along that forces RJ even further down the food chain on offense but this is the long run could be an incredible opportunity for him to work on his game and improve without the pressure of the team's fortunes falling on him and his development. Which means in 4 years when he's coming into his own prime we will see a more finished product without lamenting the growing pains.

This. I would say that's what happened with Wiggins on the Warriors.

Don't know much about Wiggins but he doesn't seem like the guy who wants to be #1. RJ seems like the kind of guy who does want to be #1 though. I'd like to think RJ gets better and eventually grows into a #1 or #2 guy but I agree with Ibraheim that once D Mitch comes, RJ's chances of ever reaching his ceiling becomes a lot lower. He's just not going to have enough usage to grow.

it took wiggins time to realize that he wasn't that guy. rj just hasn't realized it yet

[Capn'O]

If some of you don't think RJ Barrett's self-confidence takes a hit when a franchise behaves like a fiending crackhead you're crazy. He knows they don't believe in his talent. He can fake it and hide but trust me he knows.

The sad thing is that I actually do think they believe in his talent. A Dolan run franchise just doesn't believe in itself. That it's worth anything without an established star name attached to it.

[stuporman]

I disagree. A franchise player is a player you build around if you don't have one you're not winning anything.

Tim Duncan was a franchise player, Steph Curry is a franchise player. Do you really think Golden State plays the same style of basketball of which they revolutionized without Steph Curry?

Lebron James is a franchise player. Kevin Garnett was a franchise player. These are guys that are so good you build around them.

If you don't have one or don't know what one looks like then WTF are we doing here?

Is RJ a franchise player? I don't know they haven't treated him like one.

You can disagree but all you did was throw out the names of generational talents as if that explains it yet it doesn't. It's a bullisht label that is useless but keeps fans like you using it as if it means something.

Aight man. It's a bull label yet used ubiquitously in sports. You guys don't like to play by the rules so you argue yourselves in circles.

BTW "generational" is a label.

It's an adjective to describe the type of talent that one is referring to.... generational means it doesn't come along very often. LeBron has generational size and speed, Curry has generational shooting Duncan had generational skill at his size. It describes attributes of the player.

Franchise is also being used as an adjective to describe the player but it doesn't tell you anything about the player other than possibly what the franchise and maybe others outside of the franchise think of the player. This is a description of conception and perception of people about the player.

Generational is an adjective that has much more objective traits to understand, franchise is much more subjective in that it describes how people treat the player. Obviously if a franchise treats a generational talent as a franchise player positive things can happen to that franchise.

Nothing is guaranteed and there are times generational talents fail to fulfill their potential because of various reasons and sure teams can think of a player who isn't a generational talent as a franchise player so is less fruitful for franchise success or neglect a generational talent so they don't fulfill their potential.

There are other times when a player not necessarily possessing obvious generational talent or isn't thought of as a franchise player rises up to show themselves to be generational that many then eventually treat them and call them a franchise player.

Ultimately though the phrase generational talent is describing attributes about the player that has objective qualities and the label franchise player is attributed to the player by others but really describes how the player is thought of and treated by others.

Just because something is used alot doesn't make it worthy of being used or is it used in a worthy way.

[ibraheim718]

he is a player worth building around for some other team, just not for them because it's well known that he doesn't want to be there anymore

He ain't that guy.. he's just the next guy I'm going to come on here and flame when he disappoints everyone. Some of you are going to believe in him and he's going to let you down just like he let Jazz fans down when they were up 3-1 on Denver.

You know the only time Knicks fans were on the right path was when they were going to protest at MSG.

feel free to go protest then, but it will likely fall on deaf ears as fans will be excited and enjoying the rare experience of winning games and the resurgence of donovan mitchell as he goes next level in the environment that he was made for

Give me a break with this fake ass fairytale schit. He wasn't made for jack schit. He played in one of the best home court advantages in basketball. I'll bet you anything you want the Knicks never make it to the ECF one time during his time here. Anything.

Do you really think Leon Rose thinks he's putting together a championship contending team? Like he looks at Mitchell and says to himself.. yep this guy can finally take us there. If he does he's an idiot if he doesn't he's just trying to make money for his boss. Now if he passes then there might be some hope with him. He should save the picks.. what if in a few years Doncic wants out or Jokic wants out? What if Giannis wants out towards the end of his contract? Save the assets for a guy you know is actually capable of leading the team to a championship.

[ibraheim718]

If some of you don't think RJ Barrett's self-confidence takes a hit when a franchise behaves like a fiending crackhead you're crazy. He knows they don't believe in his talent. He can fake it and hide but trust me he knows.

The sad thing is that I actually do think they believe in his talent. A Dolan run franchise just doesn't believe in itself. That it's worth anything without an established star name attached to it.

That's really bad then. He should be no less than the primary or secondary ball handler. If he's the third of fourth there's no point in having him here. Let someone else have him. His strength by far is getting to the basket. Let him have free reign of the offense with a few shooters around him.

[ibraheim718]

You can disagree but all you did was throw out the names of generational talents as if that explains it yet it doesn't. It's a bullisht label that is useless but keeps fans like you using it as if it means something.

Aight man. It's a bull label yet used ubiquitously in sports. You guys don't like to play by the rules so you argue yourselves in circles.

BTW "generational" is a label.

It's an adjective to describe the type of talent that one is referring to.... generational means it doesn't come along very often. LeBron has generational size and speed, Curry has generational shooting Duncan had generational skill at his size. It describes attributes of the player.

Franchise is also being used as an adjective to describe the player but it doesn't tell you anything about the player other than possibly what the franchise and maybe others outside of the franchise think of the player. This is a description of conception and perception of people about the player.

Generational is an adjective that has much more objective traits to understand, franchise is much more subjective in that it describes how people treat the player. Obviously if a franchise treats a generational talent as a franchise player positive things can happen to that franchise.

Nothing is guaranteed and there are times generational talents to fulfill their potential because of various reasons and sure teams can think of a player who isn't a generational talent as a franchise player so is less fruitful for franchise success or neglect a generational talent so they don't fulfill their potential.

There are other times when a player not necessarily possessing obvious generational talent or isn't thought of as a franchise player rises up to show themselves to be generational that many then eventually treat them and call them a franchise player.

Ultimately though the phrase generational talent is describing attributes about the player that has objective qualities and the label franchise player is attributed to the player by other but really describes how the player is thought of and treated by others.

Just because something is used alot doesn't make it worthy of being used or is it used in a worthy way.

Have you ever heard of the generational tag?

[robillionaire]

He ain't that guy.. he's just the next guy I'm going to come on here and flame when he disappoints everyone. Some of you are going to believe in him and he's going to let you down just like he let Jazz fans down when they were up 3-1 on Denver.

You know the only time Knicks fans were on the right path was when they were going to protest at MSG.

feel free to go protest then, but it will likely fall on deaf ears as fans will be excited and enjoying the rare experience of winning games and the resurgence of donovan mitchell as he goes next level in the environment that he was made for

Give me a break with this fake ass fairytale schit. He wasn't made for jack schit. He played in one of the best home court advantages in basketball. I'll bet you anything you want the Knicks never make it to the ECF one time during his time here. Anything.

Do you really think Leon Rose thinks he's putting together a championship contending team? Like he looks at Mitchell and says to himself.. yep this guy can finally take us there. If he does he's an idiot if he doesn't he's just trying to make money for his boss. Now if he passes then there might be some hope with him. He should save the picks.. what if in a few years Doncic wants out or Jokic wants out? What if Giannis wants out towards the end of his contract? Save the assets for a guy you know is actually capable of leading the team to a championship.

Donovan has a career win loss record of 218-127 a .632 winning percentage essentially 52-30 average. it's higher than that of the players you mentioned, that's the reality, we will be euphoric with wins

[Buttah304]

I don't think you understand the elation I felt when the Pacers sent fat melo home with HCA or when little Trae Young showed Julius Randle the door with HCA. Why settle for what this franchise puts out? If we all were unified on the Dark Side and rooted for Failure so bad that James Dolan would be too embarrassed to leave his penthouse we'd be much happier.

Is this the moment in the thread where you tell us that Trae Young is a franchise player and that Donovan Mitchell is not? THE Trae Young who is 135-170 in his 1st 4 years in the league. THE Trae Young who finished 9th in the East after people wanted to proclaim The Hawks something they weren’t. Jokic can win all the damn MVPs he wants but he seems to never get it done in the playoffs. Is he a franchise player? What about Embiid? Has he gotten out the second round yet? Is Tatum unequivocally a franchise player? He just shot 36% from the field in 6 games in the finals on the biggest stage in professional sports.

Listen, not once have I sat here pounding on the table for Donovan. I’m also slightly bugging out just thinking about the unprotected 1sts going out, and how many years down the road they are. The whole “franchise” player thing has honestly become BS. In this day and age you need multiple stars to win in this league. What we do know about Donovan is what we know about a lot of the above mentioned guys. Can be the engine on a 50+ win team but probably won’t make it out of the 2nd round. But if RJ is as good as you truly feel he can be, then this becomes a GOOD problem for us. Not “he’s going to get in his way and now I’ll never know what RJ is.” For all the talk about Giannis - look at what the world found out. The dude NEEDS Khris. With him they win a ring and without him they lose in the ECF. Every star need another one, and probably a third if we’re being honest. And if you don’t have that 3rd he’s got to the the ultimate fundamentals, high IQ kind of player.

Do I want to give up a “haul” for Donovan no. But is my 1st thought “I can’t wait to flame everyone” as soon as he shows some signs of struggle? No, it’s not.

[stuporman]

If the Knicks' unprotected picks are better assets than the Heats' unprotected picks like the muppet media has been telling us so snidely for this whole trade cycle ad nauseum then 2 picks from the Knicks is as good as 3 from the Heat, right? Or do we have to ignore it since it's the Knicks?

Or if the Heat and the Knicks have the same number of unprotected picks to trade then the Knicks ones should trump between the two in the draft asset comparison. So it would have to be another team who has a history of being in the lottery that has the unprotected picks to offer equal in value to the Knicks.

Is this nuance significant enough to be exploited by the Knicks in getting a better deal for Mitchell? Maybe a more favorable player package since picks are the most desired by Ainge now in this current stage of the process. Aller has to leverage this the best he can.

This is taking too long... We have too much time to talk about this whole deal and it gives me too much time to come up with crazy new angles to look at it.

[stuporman]

Aight man. It's a bull label yet used ubiquitously in sports. You guys don't like to play by the rules so you argue yourselves in circles.

BTW "generational" is a label.

It's an adjective to describe the type of talent that one is referring to.... generational means it doesn't come along very often. LeBron has generational size and speed, Curry has generational shooting Duncan had generational skill at his size. It describes attributes of the player.

Franchise is also being used as an adjective to describe the player but it doesn't tell you anything about the player other than possibly what the franchise and maybe others outside of the franchise think of the player. This is a description of conception and perception of people about the player.

Generational is an adjective that has much more objective traits to understand, franchise is much more subjective in that it describes how people treat the player. Obviously if a franchise treats a generational talent as a franchise player positive things can happen to that franchise.

Nothing is guaranteed and there are times generational talents to fulfill their potential because of various reasons and sure teams can think of a player who isn't a generational talent as a franchise player so is less fruitful for franchise success or neglect a generational talent so they don't fulfill their potential.

There are other times when a player not necessarily possessing obvious generational talent or isn't thought of as a franchise player rises up to show themselves to be generational that many then eventually treat them and call them a franchise player.

Ultimately though the phrase generational talent is describing attributes about the player that has objective qualities and the label franchise player is attributed to the player by other but really describes how the player is thought of and treated by others.

Just because something is used alot doesn't make it worthy of being used or is it used in a worthy way.

Have you ever heard of the generational tag?

Is that all you have? You got nothing, so go away.

[HarthorneWingo]

The Rev does an excellent job at deducing the identity of the 3 Knicks players who will be traded to the Utes given the financial requirements of the CBA and our hardline positions on our untouchables.

Spoiler:

Fournier, Resdish, and IQ

Watch on YouTube

[robillionaire]

I don't think you understand the elation I felt when the Pacers sent fat melo home with HCA or when little Trae Young showed Julius Randle the door with HCA. Why settle for what this franchise puts out? If we all were unified on the Dark Side and rooted for Failure so bad that James Dolan would be too embarrassed to leave his penthouse we'd be much happier.

I mean the only conclusion I can draw from this description of your elation seeing the knicks lose in the playoffs is that you hate the team and want them to fail(the rooting for failure is openly stated). that's cool but then we have to consider from that standpoint why you don't want this deal to happen.

if you really thought the deal was a bad thing, you would once again be elated that it's happening since it would result in a franchise crippling failure of a trade that might get rid of Dolan that you claim you want. Yet you seem upset about it and don't want the trade to happen, so that must mean that you do realize that donovan is a damn good player and that there's a damn good chance that it is going to be a winning success to at least some degree, which you don't want. This reinforces my opinion that the deal is good, coming from the perspective that I like the knicks and want them to win games

[stuporman]

RJ doesn't really have generational talent so that is why people don't like him because in their mind they believe a number 3 pick should be a 'franchise player' so he leaves them wanting.

Is Donovan Mitchell a 'generational talent'? Is he a 'franchise player'?

He's definitely one of the best scorers in the league who gets better in the playoffs so if the Knicks can add him without giving up all their draft assets and young players who cares if it fits labels.

With Mitchell, Brunson, Randle, RJ the Knicks should have a high scoring team with the dual dribble penetration threats of the guards creating opportunities for Randle, RJ and Meetch to finish with less ball pressure....meaning more open shots or a scrambling defense.

It just depends on the picks and players that go out to get DMitch, they can't deplete the bench or the future so much there's no way to add more talent. Especially a potential number 1 star type option that makes the Knicks a title contender.

One thing I bet we all can agree on... Randle aint a generational talent or franchise player.

[RHODEY]

He ain't that guy.. he's just the next guy I'm going to come on here and flame when he disappoints everyone. Some of you are going to believe in him and he's going to let you down just like he let Jazz fans down when they were up 3-1 on Denver.

You know the only time Knicks fans were on the right path was when they were going to protest at MSG.

feel free to go protest then, but it will likely fall on deaf ears as fans will be excited and enjoying the rare experience of winning games and the resurgence of donovan mitchell as he goes next level in the environment that he was made for

Give me a break with this fake ass fairytale schit. He wasn't made for jack schit. He played in one of the best home court advantages in basketball. I'll bet you anything you want the Knicks never make it to the ECF one time during his time here. Anything.

Do you really think Leon Rose thinks he's putting together a championship contending team? Like he looks at Mitchell and says to himself.. yep this guy can finally take us there. If he does he's an idiot if he doesn't he's just trying to make money for his boss. Now if he passes then there might be some hope with him. He should save the picks.. what if in a few years Doncic wants out or Jokic wants out? What if Giannis wants out towards the end of his contract? Save the assets for a guy you know is actually capable of leading the team to a championship.

I think Leon realizes its a process and he is opportunistic. He looks at Mitchell and says to himself....this kid is a scoring machine and could be a part of something bigger. He's not waiting for The Greek Freak (why would he want out?) or Micheal Jordan to drop out of the sky....he's gathered these resources and is putting them to their best use. He's pouncing on a opportunity to add a bonafide star....that will eventually attract more stars.

Its a Process.

[bearadonisdna]

Knicks film school said it pretty well , nobody is dumping RJ yet because he is actually pretty good.
Post Allstar break averaged 24 ppg and for the year improved his PER from the year before.

While the shooting efficiency dipped his overall PER went up so you can make a argument his volume (20 ppg)and efficiency went up in an important developmental year.

My ceiling comp for RJB was James Harden and I’ve been proud of him to exhibit that many times last season even scoring 46 points 1 game. Post all star break provided positive +\- play on top his 24 ppg.

Generational ? No.

Franchise ? Maybe if he maintains his ceiling that he has flashed .

Transcendent? In my belief he can be a transcendent guard. He can provide things that many other nba guards could not. Size and aggression and finishing ability .
As a small forward his attributes appear to become more average. Your more afraid of bullocks is shooting a 3. As a SF his drive is theoretically more defended .

[Chanel Bomber]

Does this sound like a sane person?

Spoiler:

This is a quote by a serial killer named David Alan Gore, I bet you thought this was a real ChaHell line

I have felt the emptiness of self this year...

On a beach in Koh Samui.

Love that for you, homie.

My moment was standing above the clouds on Mt. Rainier.

Looks incredible.