BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[Deeeez Knicks]

Some of you need to get with the times... Basketball has CHANGED. This Knick team got the best 27 year old stretch 4 with the highest ceiling that was available. Tyson can now have more 20 rebound games...it's about balance...

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

They beat our traditional lineup even worse

Part of that reason might be because we were not used to playing that way and aren't built to win that way. We were a mediocre defensive team during the season and struggled to beat a defensive team in a defensive playoff game.

We are built to win with outside shooting which isn't going to get you far when you don't have enough ways to get you good looks.

[Context]

Some of you need to get with the times... Basketball has CHANGED. This Knick team got the best 27 year old stretch 4 with the highest ceiling that was available. Tyson can now have more 20 rebound games...it's about balance...

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

[moocow007]

For those that are hating this poor guy and pulling all sorts of advanced stats out of your pie hole to back it up...

There was a point when Stephon Marbury was on the Knicks that some advanced stat guy actually said that Royal Ivey had better advanced stats and therefore should be playing as minutes as Marbury was...and even suggested that the Knicks trade for Ivey so they can start him instead of Marbury (no, he never saw Ivey play). This stat head also HATED Marbury obviously. I chuckled then and it always stuck with me. Now by no means am I comparing Bargnani to Marbury and Novak to Royal Ivey (the only similarities are the unabridged hate both guys seem to have with many Knick fans) but sometimes advanced stats doesn't tell the whole story.

Same with the other analogy I have made on several occasions (this one from a baseball standpoint)...

I remember arguing with another stat head to death about why Alfonso Soriano (baseball fans would know who I'm talking about) was a MUCH BETTER prospect and MUCH MORE likely to be productive in the majors than another prospect that the Yankees had at the time named D'Angelo Jiminez (baseball fans would not likely know who this is).

No matter how much I argued that Soriano was more likely to succeed (despite inferior advanced stats in the minors) because of how fast he's able to generate bat speed and how great a runner he was and just how explosive overall he was at the time, there was no winning. All I got was Jiminez mind-boggling advance stat this or that and how Jiminez would be the next Barry Larkin and that Soriano would never be able to hit major league pitching. I remember pressing him about whether he actually watched either player play (I did, quite extensively) and he said "no, I didn't have to" lol. Do you believe that? Truth.

So for those looking too hard at advanced stats...step back a little. It's not the end all be all of things.

[Thugger HBC]

Some of you need to get with the times... Basketball has CHANGED. This Knick team got the best 27 year old stretch 4 with the highest ceiling that was available. Tyson can now have more 20 rebound games...it's about balance...

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

The same Pacers team took the Heat to 7, and should have won the game that Vogel mysteriously took Hibbert out of.

What i noticed in the 4 game conference finals is that all the teams play pretty solid defense. as a staple to their offense.

The Knicks trying to do things in reverse, and it's not a good look.

Not sure why anyone thinks Hibbert is guarding Bargnani, he'll be on the guy that most likely wont be in the offense...Tyson.

As a fan I have to hope this works out even though I am 100% not in agreement of this deal.

I fully expect the team to roll in the regular season, but when defense are ramped up in the playoffs, so far i see nothing to suggest success, mainly because of how the team is being built.

At some point defense has to be a priority

[johnnywishbone]

For those that are hating this poor guy and pulling all sorts of advanced stats out of your pie hole to back it up...

There was a point when Stephon Marbury was on the Knicks that some advanced stat guy actually said that Royal Ivey had better advanced stats and therefore should be playing as minutes as Marbury was...and even suggested that the Knicks trade for Ivey so they can start him instead of Marbury (no, he never saw Ivey play). This stat head also HATED Marbury obviously. I chuckled then and it always stuck with me. Now by no means am I comparing Bargnani to Marbury and Novak to Royal Ivey (the only similarities are the unabridged hate both guys seem to have with many Knick fans) but sometimes advanced stats doesn't tell the whole story.

Same with the other analogy I have made on several occasions (this one from a baseball standpoint)...

I remember arguing with another stat head to death about why Alfonso Soriano (baseball fans would know who I'm talking about) was a MUCH BETTER prospect and MUCH MORE likely to be productive in the majors than another prospect that the Yankees had at the time named D'Angelo Jiminez (baseball fans would not likely know who this is).

No matter how much I argued that Soriano was more likely to succeed (despite inferior advanced stats in the minors) because of how fast he's able to generate bat speed and how great a runner he was and just how explosive overall he was at the time, there was no winning. All I got was Jiminez mind-boggling advance stat this or that and how Jiminez would be the next Barry Larkin and that Soriano would never be able to hit major league pitching. I remember pressing him about whether he actually watched either player play (I did, quite extensively) and he said "no, I didn't have to" lol. Do you believe that? Truth.

So for those looking too hard at advanced stats...step back a little. It's not the end all be all of things.

When did FG%, rebounds and games played become an advanced stat?

[bklynstoops]

are we really arguing this much about a guy that has the potential to make us a better 5 seed?

2015 here we come!

[Context]

The Pacers run a traditional lineup and still wiped the floor against our small ball team.

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

The same Pacers team took the Heat to 7, and should have won the game that Vogel mysteriously took Hibbert out of.

What i noticed in the 4 game conference finals is that all the teams play pretty solid defense. as a staple to their offense.

The Knicks trying to do things in reverse, and it's not a good look.

Not sure why anyone thinks Hibbert is guarding Bargnani, he'll be on the guy that most likely wont be in the offense...Tyson.

As a fan I have to hope this works out even though I am 100% not in agreement of this deal.

I fully expect the team to roll in the regular season, but when defense are ramped up in the playoffs, so far i see nothing to suggest success, mainly because of how the team is being built.

At some point defense has to be a priority

Bargs-Tyson-Melo > Shump-Tyson-Melo

[johnnywishbone]

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

The same Pacers team took the Heat to 7, and should have won the game that Vogel mysteriously took Hibbert out of.

What i noticed in the 4 game conference finals is that all the teams play pretty solid defense. as a staple to their offense.

The Knicks trying to do things in reverse, and it's not a good look.

Not sure why anyone thinks Hibbert is guarding Bargnani, he'll be on the guy that most likely wont be in the offense...Tyson.

As a fan I have to hope this works out even though I am 100% not in agreement of this deal.

I fully expect the team to roll in the regular season, but when defense are ramped up in the playoffs, so far i see nothing to suggest success, mainly because of how the team is being built.

At some point defense has to be a priority

Bargs-Tyson-Melo > Shump-Tyson-Melo

That's funny

[moocow007]

are we really arguing this much about a guy that has the potential to make us a better 5 seed?

2015 here we come!

Weren't you one of the guys that thought the Knicks were a 7th seed going into last season?

[Thugger HBC]

What series did you watch bro? just imagine west or Hibb constantly getting pump faked and driven on by Bargs- compound that with Melo dropping 39 and they don't look so mighty...

The same Pacers team took the Heat to 7, and should have won the game that Vogel mysteriously took Hibbert out of.

What i noticed in the 4 game conference finals is that all the teams play pretty solid defense. as a staple to their offense.

The Knicks trying to do things in reverse, and it's not a good look.

Not sure why anyone thinks Hibbert is guarding Bargnani, he'll be on the guy that most likely wont be in the offense...Tyson.

As a fan I have to hope this works out even though I am 100% not in agreement of this deal.

I fully expect the team to roll in the regular season, but when defense are ramped up in the playoffs, so far i see nothing to suggest success, mainly because of how the team is being built.

At some point defense has to be a priority

Bargs-Tyson-Melo > Shump-Tyson-Melo

Disagree.

I'll take the top 5 defense over top 5 offense all day, every day.

[Context]

The same Pacers team took the Heat to 7, and should have won the game that Vogel mysteriously took Hibbert out of.

What i noticed in the 4 game conference finals is that all the teams play pretty solid defense. as a staple to their offense.

The Knicks trying to do things in reverse, and it's not a good look.

Not sure why anyone thinks Hibbert is guarding Bargnani, he'll be on the guy that most likely wont be in the offense...Tyson.

As a fan I have to hope this works out even though I am 100% not in agreement of this deal.

I fully expect the team to roll in the regular season, but when defense are ramped up in the playoffs, so far i see nothing to suggest success, mainly because of how the team is being built.

At some point defense has to be a priority

Bargs-Tyson-Melo > Shump-Tyson-Melo

Disagree.

I'll take the top 5 defense over top 5 offense all day, every day.

I don't care how great my boy Shump is both him and Melo are too small to guard these bigger guys...Melo could still need surgery. Bargs weakness is on help defense NOT man to man. Not to mention, West or Hibb (whoever they decide to put on Bargs) is going to exhaust a ton of energy guarding Bargs. Again, the "dynamics" of what Bargs brings is going to create serious mismatches.

Compound it by Shump guarding the wing/backcourt and how many guys are getting by him which ultimately creates a need for help defense...

[johnnywishbone]

I don't care how great my boy Shump is both him and Melo are too small to guard these bigger guys...Melo could still need surgery. Bargs weakness is on help defense NOT man to man. Not to mention, West or Hibb (whoever they decide to put on Bargs) is going to exhaust a ton of energy guarding Bargs. Again, the "dynamics" of what Bargs brings is going to create serious mismatches.

Compound it by Shump guarding the front line and how many guys are getting by him which ultimately creates a need for help defense...

How many put backs will Hibbert and West have to get before you realize it's a bad idea?

[bklynstoops]

are we really arguing this much about a guy that has the potential to make us a better 5 seed?

2015 here we come!

Weren't you one of the guys that thought the Knicks were a 7th seed going into last season?

I said that??? Don't think so. I had them going to the ECF.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=33343090

So, you think Bargnani puts us over Miami, Indy, Chicago, or the Nets?

[Context]

I don't care how great my boy Shump is both him and Melo are too small to guard these bigger guys...Melo could still need surgery. Bargs weakness is on help defense NOT man to man. Not to mention, West or Hibb (whoever they decide to put on Bargs) is going to exhaust a ton of energy guarding Bargs. Again, the "dynamics" of what Bargs brings is going to create serious mismatches.

Compound it by Shump guarding the front line and how many guys are getting by him which ultimately creates a need for help defense...

How many put backs will Hibbert and West have to get before you realize it's a bad idea?

Acknowledge that Bargs is a very good man to man defender before we continue- I willing to have a discussion with u but only if u will be level headed bro...

[Context]

are we really arguing this much about a guy that has the potential to make us a better 5 seed?

2015 here we come!

Weren't you one of the guys that thought the Knicks were a 7th seed going into last season?

I said that??? Don't think so. I had them going to the ECF.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=33343090

So, you think Bargnani puts us over Miami, Indy, Chicago, and the Nets?

With everything that I know now about Bargs. My answer to your question is. It depends on TYSON's ability to recognize what his role needs to be...

[johnnywishbone]

I don't care how great my boy Shump is both him and Melo are too small to guard these bigger guys...Melo could still need surgery. Bargs weakness is on help defense NOT man to man. Not to mention, West or Hibb (whoever they decide to put on Bargs) is going to exhaust a ton of energy guarding Bargs. Again, the "dynamics" of what Bargs brings is going to create serious mismatches.

Compound it by Shump guarding the front line and how many guys are getting by him which ultimately creates a need for help defense...

How many put backs will Hibbert and West have to get before you realize it's a bad idea?

Acknowledge that Bargs is a very good man to man defender before we continue- I willing to have a discussion with u but only if u will be level headed bro...

It doesn't matter if he doesn't rebound. You're suggesting that we are going to counter the best rebounding team in the NBA by putting in a guy who is the worst rebounding forward maybe in the history of the game. It doesn't matter if you play good defense if you can't get possession of the ball.

This guy doesn't block out, doesn't try and you're going to have guys flying in from every direction getting extra possessions. And what you are saying is it doesn't matter because he is going to own David West - which he won't. Look at what he did against Indiana last year. 4 games 31 minutes 1.8 rebounds per game. WTF is that?

[bigfnjoe96]

[Thugger HBC]

Bargs-Tyson-Melo > Shump-Tyson-Melo

Disagree.

I'll take the top 5 defense over top 5 offense all day, every day.

I don't care how great my boy Shump is both him and Melo are too small to guard these bigger guys...Melo could still need surgery. Bargs weakness is on help defense NOT man to man. Not to mention, West or Hibb (whoever they decide to put on Bargs) is going to exhaust a ton of energy guarding Bargs. Again, the "dynamics" of what Bargs brings is going to create serious mismatches.

Compound it by Shump guarding the wing/backcourt and how many guys are getting by him which ultimately creates a need for help defense...

Solid defense make any offense perform worse, I'm not getting this notion that somehow with this addition all of a sudden the Knicks will be unstoppable on offense.

Honestly I dont even think they'll be better, but i'd have to hope so.

We've already seen great scorers get worked by defenses, even LeBron had to find other ways to put point on the board at times and he opted to PASS, until the time was right.

You think Danny Green all of a sudden forgot how to hit threes?

The Knicks are going the wrong way with this.

As far as bargnanai's man defense...it's irrelevant, he might need to learn how to switch...thats what the Knicks do.

[Thugger HBC]

Weren't you one of the guys that thought the Knicks were a 7th seed going into last season?

I said that??? Don't think so. I had them going to the ECF.

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=33343090

So, you think Bargnani puts us over Miami, Indy, Chicago, and the Nets?

With everything that I know now about Bargs. My answer to your question is. It depends on TYSON's ability to recognize what his role needs to be...

What is this "role" stuff, playoff is about the TEAM contribution.

The Pacers dont win without Lance getting his number of boards, but I guess that was hibberts job only.

[god shammgod]

just because indiana beat us in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll definitely be a better seed then us. i mean, why weren't they a better seed last year then ? it just doesn't work like that. until these teams get out on the court, who knows. people forget, we were actually neck and neck with miami for the 1 seed for awhile. you can't assume this stuff.