BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[Thugger HBC]

i'm defending this trade way too much considering i'm not even a fan of bargs

the bottom line to me is we gave up useless players and picks that have no bearing on immediate success and in return got clearly the best player in the deal and a guy with upside that could potentially be a nice fit.

people hating on this trade either over value the picks, or simply hate bargs.

either way i don't see much negative about it in terms of the immediate future. years down the line not having the pick i could undertstand being upset... but right now bargs is clearly a better fit for us than novak/camby... so what's the problem? even if you hate bargs, at worst he's an expiring contract lined up with all our big contracts.

[moocow007]

So once again we should have traded that package for Lamarcus Aldrige maybe?

Or we could have done nothing and had our draft picks and the flexibility to trade 2017 for a better deal?

The 2014 2nd round pick is the OKC Thunder's 2nd round pick. Since picks are based on record, that pick has a very good chance of being in the 57-60 range. There has NEVER been a 2nd round pick that made an impact in the NBA that was picked in that range...EVER.

The 2017 2nd round pick is 4 years from now and unless you are already planning for the Knicks demise realize that this will be in year 2 after the Knicks "reboot" summer where they'll have more capspace than they've ever had to work with.

So then it comes down to that 1st round pick in 2016 that we've already had the swap option on with Denver (Denver's favor). If you are going to be upset, be upset that the Knicks agreed to that swap option. But with that swap option the chances of that pick being anything great is also slim. The nonsense that others have said about how this pick could be lottery is just that. The KNicks are the Knicks, they aren't going to sit on that capspace for the 2015-2016 season. They are going to reload and players will still come here (it's not Milwaukee). They'll still be a top team then meaning that pick still likely will be marginal even if Denver doesn't swap.

Bargnani CAN provide more impact and production for the Knicks right now and for the next 2 seasons than Novak. The Knicks are in a win now mode. So unless you're saying that they should just give up, then doing nothing doesn't make sense.

[moocow007]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cGpV8bSaps[/youtube]

I think this video encapsulates all my concerns about Andrea.

Plugging this video as an example of your perception of Bargnani does not show well on you dude.

[johnnywishbone]

So once again we should have traded that package for Lamarcus Aldrige maybe?

Or we could have done nothing and had our draft picks and the flexibility to trade 2017 for a better deal?

The 2014 2nd round pick is the OKC Thunder's 2nd round pick. Since picks are based on record, that pick has a very good chance of being in the 57-60 range. There has NEVER been a 2nd round pick that made an impact in the NBA that was picked in that range...EVER.

The 2017 2nd round pick is 4 years from now and unless you are already planning for the Knicks demise realize that this will be in year 2 after the Knicks "reboot" summer where they'll have more capspace than they've ever had to work with.

So then it comes down to that 1st round pick in 2016 that we've already had the swap option on with Denver (Denver's favor). If you are going to be upset, be upset that the Knicks agreed to that swap option. But with that swap option the chances of that pick being anything great is also slim.

Bargnani CAN provide more impact and production for the Knicks right now and for the next 2 seasons than Novak. The Knicks are in a win now mode. So unless you're saying that they should just give up, then doing nothing doesn't make sense.

If we don't trade 2016 we can still trade 2017. Now think about for a second and remember we will have a bunch of expiring contracts next year.

By trading 2016 and the second round picks (even if they are low value) we have basically taken away the last bit of flexibility we had to take a chance on a guy who has been hurt for two years and even when healthy there were major question marks about him.

[ibraheim718]

You guys constantly remind everyone that the Knicks have no real assets to trade so I thought that was obvious. But ok...tell me...what REALISITIC options did they have?

I don't remind anyone of a god damn thing when it comes to assets we have or don't have.

Do you know for a fact that we didn't shop this type of package to other teams? This package has been around all last season leading up to the trade deadline. It's not something new.

I mean let's be realistic. A near 40 year old gimpy C who showed up out of shape in training camp, got injured and is owed almost $9 millionfor 2 more years. A one dimensional shooter who wasn't able to do the one thing he's good at with any sort of impact signed to a 3 year deal paying him more than he's worth, 2 bottom of the barrel 2nd round picks and a swap protected 1st round pick 3 years from now. What type of "good value" were you planning them to get?

Like I said.. I don't know neither do you so why take such a strong stance like you know a god damn thing?

No, but apparently you do. But tell me, without giving up Shumpert, you really believe that that package would have gotten someone better? If so, lol, ok...like what? I'll remember that the next time you rag on guys for proposing outlandish trades for other teams players.

We disagree here... if you don't think this trade was a plea to take some of the sting off of the Nets landing two HOF'er right in our backyards that's on you.. I disagree.. if it wasn't such a big thing what BK does... why would Lorraine bitch about petty things like a billboard going up across from his office window?

And obviously trades for packages like this for good/great players happen all the time? I'm not sure what part of actually needing to give up talent/assets to get assets you are missing here.

I just saw good basketball player get traded for 2 2nd round picks yesterday. But keep assuming 2nd round picks and first round picks wherever the F they are in the first round are worth nothing.

? Wait so you don't agree with us speaking definitely (we've said that it's unlikely to get anything better with a crap package...but ok...that's definitive) and yet you are saying that definitively the Knicks could have gotten something better? That's what you're saying here.

Yes.. because to me any menial rebounding forward who actually gives a crap about basketball would have been better then Andrea Bargnani

Did anyone notice that in both those trades the team getting them actually had to give up better assets to get? If you would have proposed that we could have gotten Bledsoe for any part of what we traded to get Bargnani you should have absolutely gotten shot down. I'm really not sure what you're missing here. You want a guy like Bledsoe, you need to give up a guy like Shumpert AT LEAST. So unless you are in the camp that would have (I was) then I'm really not sure what you're point here is about bringing up those names.

I don't give a damn who we give up as long as it makes the team better by MY judgement... this trade doesn't do that.

So what you're saying is that we could have traded our scrubs for something good? Based on what? OBVIOUSLY everyone is guessing here, but at some point common sense has to come into play no? How often do you give up crap and get back quality talent? A Bargnani type player is realistically what you could get for crap...a player that has talent but that has disappointed and whose team is looking to dump. So if not Bargnani, what other player on what other team that is still under contract do you think the Knicks could have gotten that would have been better than Bargnani? Name them.

This counter is getting dry and stale.. My point is how do you know or I know what is actually out there to be had??? HOW???? And WHY are we supposed to like trading crap for more crap??????? Just explain that to me to where that line of thinking makes sense.

And you just answered your earlier question about this being a reactionary trade doesn't it. If the Knicks were rumored to have been interested in Bargnani last year then it's not likely that they just went out and traded for the heck of it now to react to the Nets trade. The talk last year was that Colangelo needed whomever to take Bargnani to also take Landry Fields. That stipulation CLEARLY (to me at least) would have killed any potential discussion about trading anything similar to what they traded for Bargnani by himself last season. Sans Fields this trade would be a whole lot more palatable.

And I also just answered my own question of why the front office sucks also... But when the trade appears to be thrown together... reported it's on one minute.. off the next.. guys that had been already cut are included in the deal then they aren't... then a guy is signed to contract he doesn't deserve.. and the trade is back on it kind of looks like the deal was thrown together last minute.

The Hardaway draft pick has nothing to do with anything. I've already said that as much as I didn't want him, now that he's a Knick I'm rooting for him. I've said that I absolutely hope that I'm wrong about Hardaway. So whether I wanted Hardaway or not has what to do with not thinking that this trade was as bad as some of you guys are saying it is or saying that the package we gave up for Bargnani was not good enough to get anyone better?

I'm saying why make a move when it doesn't address making the team better?

Is this trade great? NO.

You're right.. this trade sucks.

Is this crap? NO.

Wrong.. it is crap.

Is Bargnani useless? NO.

Only time will tell.. I'm going to go out on a limb and say for what we need to USE him for yes.. he's USELESS.

Does that mean I think he'll be great? NO.

Right again.. he's going to suck.

Does he have the potential of contributing more than the players dealt for him? ABOSLUTELY.

Get the hell out of here.. MAYBE.

Do I think that that package was good enough to get someone better? NO.

Again.. you don't know this.

Would I include Shumpert in a bigger deal to land a great player? ABSOLUTELY.

[/quote][/quote]

Depends on who the player is.

[TrueWarrior]

So once again we should have traded that package for Lamarcus Aldrige maybe?

Or we could have done nothing and had our draft picks and the flexibility to trade 2017 for a better deal?

The 2014 2nd round pick is the OKC Thunder's 2nd round pick. Since picks are based on record, that pick has a very good chance of being in the 57-60 range. There has NEVER been a 2nd round pick that made an impact in the NBA that was picked in that range...EVER..

To be fair Moo Isaiah Thomas was drafted 60th a few years ago and hes doing pretty well. Nobody to lose sleep over obviously though.

But yea the 2nd round picks are very very slim assets. We could always buy those and flip em in a draft day trade if we want. We just spent all our money on the Camby deal last year.

[kNicksGmen]

i got you thugger, and have no problem with your opinion... but is he not better than novak? you have to admit there is some potential for improvement. at worst he stinks and if that's the case novak stinks too. we were in a position where we needed to make a risk/reward type of deal.i'd rather see bargs out there stinking it up than playing small ball and novak being useless other than wide open catch and shoots against scrub teams that don't read the scouting report. at least bargs can dribble the ball.

[NBA Fan 1234]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cGpV8bSaps[/youtube]

I think this video encapsulates all my concerns about Andrea.

you can just as easily find a video of him having a great offensive game.

not sure you can find one that shows his solid post defense, but all the synergy stats showed already that he is a very good post defender straight up.

[ibraheim718]

It's pretty common sense this deal was made and discussed only on that day.

They waived the player who was to be used the day before for situations like this.

I'm almost positive the Raptors called the Knicks.

How this is not obvious to others baffles me.

We were trying to get Bargs since the deadline last year when offered Amare.....


Or was that bull crap???

Did Amar'e get traded? Just look at how the deal went down and when it went down.

I'm sure last year the team thought it was set on all fronts when they tried trading for him... little did they know we weren't... but yet.. they made the deal anyway.

[johnnywishbone]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cGpV8bSaps[/youtube]

I think this video encapsulates all my concerns about Andrea.

you can just as easily find a video of him having a great offensive game.

not sure you can find one that shows his solid post defense, but all the synergy stats showed already that he is a very good post defender straight up.

I know but what we keep hearing from Raptor's fans is he isn't good on help defense. And in that video you can see that he helps when he doesn't need to and loses his guy on the three point line in the process. The other complaint is he can't rebound. And what you see in the video is even after getting away with pushing off he can't secure the rebound from I believe JBerko (who sucks).

It's just one video, it doesn't mean anything. But it's does demonstrate the going concerns we heard from the Raptor fans.

[kNicksGmen]

who is the solid player that got traded for 2nd round picks? hopefully you're not dumb enough to be referencing the bledsoe deal.

[NBA Fan 1234]

but you cant only focus on the negatives. that's ridiculous.

[Context]

Or we could have done nothing and had our draft picks and the flexibility to trade 2017 for a better deal?

The 2014 2nd round pick is the OKC Thunder's 2nd round pick. Since picks are based on record, that pick has a very good chance of being in the 57-60 range. There has NEVER been a 2nd round pick that made an impact in the NBA that was picked in that range...EVER.

The 2017 2nd round pick is 4 years from now and unless you are already planning for the Knicks demise realize that this will be in year 2 after the Knicks "reboot" summer where they'll have more capspace than they've ever had to work with.

So then it comes down to that 1st round pick in 2016 that we've already had the swap option on with Denver (Denver's favor). If you are going to be upset, be upset that the Knicks agreed to that swap option. But with that swap option the chances of that pick being anything great is also slim.

Bargnani CAN provide more impact and production for the Knicks right now and for the next 2 seasons than Novak. The Knicks are in a win now mode. So unless you're saying that they should just give up, then doing nothing doesn't make sense.

If we don't trade 2016 we can still trade 2017. Now think about for a second and remember we will have a bunch of expiring contracts next year.

By trading 2016 and the second round picks (even if they are low value) we have basically taken away the last bit of flexibility we had to take a chance on a guy who has been hurt for two years and even when healthy there were major question marks about him.

What's ur motivation here Johnny? You refuse to acknowledge ANYTHING but ur side of the argument..so ur trying to tell me that if an opportunity to acquire a player arises in February or the following June that a 2018-2020 pick and expiring is going to be that much of a deal breaker as a posed to 2017 2019? Just stop pls...at this point I think theres some other motivation for ur debating bro...and FYI, I havent come up with the sig bet because I just can't take advantage of people like that. Bargs is going to come here and do his best to show how "thrilled" he is and how much he wants to be a part of this "storied franchise"...and as sham says: you will like it

[Rasho Brezec]

But Miami beat Indiana and won a title with scoring. Bargnani has more raw offensive talent than anybody available at the price we paid.

I mean, I would hope most of the detractors here would at least admit that much. If not, I'd like to hear some names of people who could be gotten with the package we got Bargs with.

We should just start a thread on this already. Name better players we could have gotten with the package we traded for Bargs. Since so many are convinced we could land Kevin Love with it. Unless we're adding Shumpert to the deal no team is giving us anything great for that. It could be outbid by every team Im sure.

Seems most people arent even upset at the value of the trade. They would just rather us kept the swapped pick 3 years from now and not have made the trade at all, because they dont feel Bargs gets us closer to a ring these next 2 years. Understandable but it wasnt like we were going to stand pat the next 2 years and waste Melo's prime. This trade does make us better. Maybe not surefire title contenders but I dont see how we're not better, while also helping our 2015 capspace.

Anything can happen in the playoffs. A little improvement from Shump, Bargs contributing, and a couple solid signings and who knows.

I hate this deal because it was obviously a rushed move set up in the last minute. We showed our cards again like we always do. Trades can't become official before July 10th. We could've waited at least that long before deciding on anything, because teams would be signing FA's, making room on their roster, etc. All of the things we gave up in that trade could've been valuable since both Camby's and Novak's contracts are small.

And if we really made the trade because the FO likes Bargnani that much, then I question their job suitability. He's just not a good fit on this team if we're serious about winning in the playoffs.

[ezmoney707]

Or we could have done nothing and had our draft picks and the flexibility to trade 2017 for a better deal?

The 2014 2nd round pick is the OKC Thunder's 2nd round pick. Since picks are based on record, that pick has a very good chance of being in the 57-60 range. There has NEVER been a 2nd round pick that made an impact in the NBA that was picked in that range...EVER.

The 2017 2nd round pick is 4 years from now and unless you are already planning for the Knicks demise realize that this will be in year 2 after the Knicks "reboot" summer where they'll have more capspace than they've ever had to work with.

So then it comes down to that 1st round pick in 2016 that we've already had the swap option on with Denver (Denver's favor). If you are going to be upset, be upset that the Knicks agreed to that swap option. But with that swap option the chances of that pick being anything great is also slim.

Bargnani CAN provide more impact and production for the Knicks right now and for the next 2 seasons than Novak. The Knicks are in a win now mode. So unless you're saying that they should just give up, then doing nothing doesn't make sense.

If we don't trade 2016 we can still trade 2017. Now think about for a second and remember we will have a bunch of expiring contracts next year.

By trading 2016 and the second round picks (even if they are low value) we have basically taken away the last bit of flexibility we had to take a chance on a guy who has been hurt for two years and even when healthy there were major question marks about him.

You can still trade your 2015 pick on draft day or after the draft. So what's the big deal?

[Thugger HBC]

This is what i said way before this trade happened.....

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1253760&start=15

Re: Bargnani?

Unread postby Thugger HBC on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:26 pm
I'd lose alot of faith in Grunwald if Bargnani became a Knick.


Oh yeah, i see some flip flopping.

And whomever you are, I have my hammer cocked and ready....


Re: Bargnani?

Unread postby BowlRips on Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:46 pm
Bargnani for Novak, Camby and a first

a)i dont know why you keep mentioning amare and tyson.
b) theyre will be no market for bargs
c) toronto looking to rebuild not add salary
d) cambys deal unguaranteed, basically expiring contract
e) they need shooting, novak at 4 mil works
f) they acquire the 24th pick. more assets in rebuild

[ibraheim718]

who is the solid player that got traded for 2nd round picks? hopefully you're not dumb enough to be referencing the bledsoe deal.

Friend.. google the hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that go on in the NBA from one year to the next and you'll find plenty of trades where teams settle for less just to get rid of players.

What did toronto give up for Lowry last year?

[ibraheim718]

but you cant only focus on the negatives. that's ridiculous.

But wait.. this dudes last couple of years has been more negative than it has been positive, right?

[StephNYKurry]

I'm just lulzing everytime a certain someone follows "you don't know that", by making an equally definitive statement himself.

[johnnywishbone]

I hate this deal because it was obviously a rushed move set up in the last minute. We showed our cards again like we always do. Trades can't become official before July 10th. We could've waited at least that long before deciding on anything, because teams would be signing FA's, making room on their roster, etc. All of the things we gave up in that trade could've been valuable since both Camby's and Novak's contracts are small.

And if we really made the trade because the FO likes Bargnani that much, then I question their job suitability. He's just not a good fit on this team if we're serious about winning in the playoffs.

Kneega please. If you don't want to hear what I'm saying read then read the above. This is exactly how I feel.

You don't agree with that? That's your prerogative but don't say other people are obstinate or have ulterior motives because they don't agree with you.