Around the NBA part 4

[JustaKnickFan]

^A 12 and 6 guy who's playing real games worth of 1 full regular season... hey I'll take the rook/ soph.

Averaging 12, 6, and 43.4 FG% (compared to Felton's 40.3 FG%) after a disastrous November. Hmmmm... just admit it you guys hate him cuz he's no longer a Knick. But deep down you want him over Da Fat Ass.

I like Lin, but please don't try to say that Lin is outplaying Felton. Lin plays in a fast-tempo offense which is helps his stats, while Felton played for a month on two hands with bone bruises. When you have bone bruises you can barely pass or shoot, but he had to because only him Melo and JR could create shots since Amar'e was out. Since Amar'e came back, Felton has been averaging 14 and 8 and it could be much more if Chandler didn't blow a bunch of lobs.

Lin still has yet to show that he can make it through the regular season and prove that he still has something left come playoff time. He still needs to develop that mental makeup where you're not afraid of the big-boys like MIA, while Felton has dominated Miami by himself without Melo. So yeah, Lin looks like he's improving, but please, don't say "I wish the Knicks had Lin instead of Felton", because by now, it just shows you're more of a Lin fan than a Knicks fan.

[GettinitDone]

^A 12 and 6 guy who's playing real games worth of 1 full regular season... hey I'll take the rook/ soph.

Averaging 12, 6, and 43.4 FG% (compared to Felton's 40.3 FG%) after a disastrous November. Hmmmm... just admit it you guys hate him cuz he's no longer a Knick. But deep down you want him over Da Fat Ass.

So it's about only 1 regular season? OK. So how many years do we have to wait until the star/superstar debate ends? How many 12/6 (or lower) years does it take? Another 1 year? 2 years? 5 year? 10 years?

Seriously? when do facts become facts? Only after he retires?

P.S. I like Felton and I definitely don't "hate" Lin. There's now way I'm going to back to that debate.

Facts become facts when all of you stop equating first year = whole career.

Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, sucked in their first years. Hall of Famer bound Steve Nash sucked all the way to his 3rd year to the point laid-back, mild mannered Dallas fans booed him and only broke out in 4th year. Chauncey in his 5th year. We sure have a lot of dumb GMs in this league, but damn, luckily they're not as dumb as y'all because you'd have traded all these gems after their "mediocre" first years.

Most of young scoring point guards are confused when they are supposed to score and when they're supposed to distribute.

To put it into perspective, read this Chauncey Billups article detailing his career and why he was struggling in his first 4 years:

"I don't know when to score and when not to."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/ ... 11/billups

[j4remi]

^A 12 and 6 guy who's playing real games worth of 1 full regular season... hey I'll take the rook/ soph.

Averaging 12, 6, and 43.4 FG% (compared to Felton's 40.3 FG%) after a disastrous November. Hmmmm... just admit it you guys hate him cuz he's no longer a Knick. But deep down you want him over Da Fat Ass.

I'd take the grizzled vet for THIS roster. There are a lot of situations where I'd prefer Lin, but I think Felton is the better fit for our goals and time frame to achieve such.

[AllanHoustonFan]

You "Lin boys" should never get on people who defend Melo. You guys are as, if not more, sensitive as those posters.

[j4remi]

You "Lin boys" should never get on people who defend Melo. You guys are as, if not more, sensitive as those posters.

This isn't just for you but everyone in general...we had to throw into the new guidelines from October a rule basically asking people to stop generalizing fans by the players they like "Lin boys, Gallo Guys, Melo defenders" whatever it is...let's just avoid that. It's divisive and will no doubt lead to more of the flame crap that hurt the board last year. Some people see potential in Lin, some don't...Some like Melo and some don't...but let's just leave it at that please.

[AllanHoustonFan]

You "Lin boys" should never get on people who defend Melo. You guys are as, if not more, sensitive as those posters.

This isn't just for you but everyone in general...we had to throw into the new guidelines from October a rule basically asking people to stop generalizing fans by the players they like "Lin boys, Gallo Guys, Melo defenders" whatever it is...let's just avoid that. It's divisive and will no doubt lead to more of the flame crap that hurt the board last year. Some people see potential in Lin, some don't...Some like Melo and some don't...but let's just leave it at that please.

Sorry. Forgot we were going the politically correct route this season.

[fdr2012]

Facts become facts when all of you stop equating first year = whole career.

Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, sucked in their first years. Hall of Famer bound Steve Nash sucked all the way to his 3rd year to the point laid-back, mild mannered Dallas fans booed him and only broke out in 4th year. Chauncey in his 5th year. We sure have a lot of dumb GMs in this league, but damn, luckily they're not as dumb as y'all because you'd have traded all these gems after their "mediocre" first years.

Most of young scoring point guards are confused when they are supposed to score and when they're supposed to distribute.

To put it into perspective, read this Chauncey Billups article detailing his career and why he was struggling in his first 4 years:

"I don't know when to score and when not to."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/ ... 11/billups

The guy is 24.5. What you're basically saying is that you will continue to call him a (future) star/superstar until he's 30 because scoring point guards like Nash and Billups took time to develop? OK. That makes sense.

My interest in this is fading fast. The arguments are getting more absurd by the minute.

[Rasho Brezec]

It appears after that Lin thread got locked, all of the discussion just migrated to this thread that was supposed to be for all NBA discussion. A shame, because I think most of the posters, including me, don't care about Lin, yet Quick Kick and 21shumpst keep bringing him up.

[BleedOrangeBlue]

Trade Novak and Brewer for Lin. I think Novak and Brewer would shine in Houston. Imagine Felton starting and Lin as a backup PG?

[Quick Kick]

It appears after that Lin thread got locked, all of the discussion just migrated to this thread that was supposed to be for all NBA discussion. A shame, because I think most of the posters, including me, don't care about Lin, yet Quick Kick and 21shumpst keep bringing him up.

I promise I wont bring him up anymore if his cultish apologetics promise to not diss Felton/Melo whenever Lin has his monthly "one great game" and also if they promise to take all their fantastical delusional musings regarding his future prospects to Clutchfans or another Rockets forum.

you guys are so quick to bring my name up yet you conveniently forget that Lins remaining handful of fans here have a tendency to go batsh*t insane in this thread whenever he puts up like 8 points and 4 assists in one half, as if thats some amazing acheivement, yet whenever hes playing like crap (which is often) and someone brings it up, WE'RE the annoying ones. Like you have dudes that really believe he'll follow the same career trajectory of Nash or Billups, and they'll ferociously defend their position til the break of dawn if you dare suggest otherwise. That means they'll be hyping up every halfway decent performance of his on this board for another 4 years or so!

Man whatever. I aint even finna post in this gotdamn thread anymore. FDR and Shump can keep fighting the good fight if they want.

[Capn'O]

It was meant as a criticism.

Facing Miami on a b2b I'm just happy to cover my points spread.

So now games against Miami don't count (we already knows what happens when Lin goes up against Miami) and also b2b games don't count, right? So why don't we just cherry pick the best 5 games that Lin plays during the season, say that those are the only ones that "count" and ignore the rest?

Nah. I think we should continue to go with his year end season averages.

Oh, I forgot, that's what you've been doing all along and that's why you got into a ridiculous bet to begin with.

False

Frankly, I'm getting tired of this Lin thing altogether.

Decidedly false

Its been almost 50 games. That's a large enough sample. He is what he is and that's it. The same garbage after every single game. If people want to call a 12/6 guy a "star" or a "superstar", then go ahead.

Lol, wut? Stop trying to move MY bar. That's not what the bet was. The bet was me saying that his slow start was not representative of his abilities and would ultimately pull down his stats for the year and you saying that they were representative. If you want to talk cherrypicking - at the beginning of the year you were among those saying he was a 10/6/35% shooting guy that would probably be delegated to the D-League and that's all he would ever be. Oopsy daisy.

Still a hair nervous about the assists... but I just covered my points spread against Lin's worst matchup on a back to back (where his splits show that he typically sucks) and that's why you are so...

^Shook today

[Thugger HBC]

It appears after that Lin thread got locked, all of the discussion just migrated to this thread that was supposed to be for all NBA discussion. A shame, because I think most of the posters, including me, don't care about Lin, yet Quick Kick and 21shumpst keep bringing him up.

I fully agree....most posters dont care about Lin, but there are some that do, so they post here.

There are three types and absolutely no names are needed that we need to refrain from that.

1) The ones who are still hell bent the Knicks made a mistake and every time Lin has a good to great game, the post it, overrate it, even to the point of posting distasteful Anime pics which actually is a diss to Lin.

And folks respond to that.

2) The ones who note his bad game with the same exaggeration as the example in #1.

And folks respond to that.

3) The ones who admit the dont watch much of Rockets..pick a side of the day, and continue to flame fest by jumping into a convo they know little about.

But here's the kicker.....this is where they can post about it, it's up to the reader how they respond.

They only thing that the myself and entire mod crew ask is that posts do not use language to encite arguments, generalizing fanbases, name/poster calling, and leave the Knicks out of it.

If everyone followed these simple rules the Lin convo would die down just like it did with Gallo.

This thread becomes a free for all alot, and personally i dont wanna see any Knicks fan fall by the wayside just because they are unable to do simple things....but it might come to that.

[Capn'O]

^Thugger - I think there is also an ongoing conversation going on about an approach that favors acquisition of established players over player development. I think both approaches can be done well (or quite poorly). The two approaches can also be integrated; see the Spurs or Thunder. But often times particular players get dragged down into these debates and I think more recent posters get caught up in the players.

We had managers for a long time that did the acquisition approach quite poorly and more recently some that do it much better. I still wish we'd put a little more value in development... maybe that is the direction we're taking with guys like Shump, Sims, and whoever we draft next. I hope it is.



Edit - also glad you said something about the Anime stuff. It is quite distasteful.

[21shumpshumpst]

From the game thread you little chumps...

by Impress3 on Sun May 06, 2012 4:33 pm

You can't miss critical free throws like that. This game was suppose to be over man smh

by NYK Mentality on Sun May 06, 2012 4:33 pm

Melo played his heart out, but two misses up 3 at the line was a killer. Could have iced the game. Now this?

by kmpoaquests on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

god help us all if we loose cuz of fkn freethrow shots

by GoodAzzGame_NYK on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

all those FT's were in and out!

god why!!!

by ijag23 on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

We seriously are going to lose this at the free throw line now? With everything else, now we gotta go out like this???

by Sky_Knicks on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Whyyyyy Melo ? Whyyyyyy

by KnicksNYankees on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

if we choke this up...

by Butch718 on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Stupid missed free throws. They should be up by 5. Not 2.

by Jose7© on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

smh 3 misses

by TKF on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

missed Ft's by amare and melo... my lord.... my lord...

by runnyc on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Why basketball gods, why? 3 missed FTs.

by DocZaius on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

awfulness

Melo with the misses

Chandler with the foul

JR with the pass

Amare with the miss

What a joke.

JOKE..

by Stephon Marbury on Sun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

**** chokers

by BBAL on Sun May 06, 2012 4:30 pm

I can't believe that from Melo.

by TKF on Sun May 06, 2012 4:30 pm

those missed FT's hurt like hell....

by emo on Sun May 06, 2012 4:30 pm

2 **** FTs! we lose this and I'll burn the **** Garden down myself, WITH MELO IN THAT BITCH!

by kmpoaquests on Sun May 06, 2012 4:29 pm

such a **** clown

he could seal this game and instead laughing

by Gregory151 on Sun May 06, 2012 4:29 pm

MELO you serious

by isiah_thomas on Sun May 06, 2012 4:29 pm

WOW WTF MELO CMONNNNNNNNNN

by Smokey9782 on Sun May 06, 2012 4:29 pm

Is this really happening?

So now kindly STFU and GTFOFF my damn jock... and WATCH THE DAMN GAMES you little Mitt Romney loving fool.

And Quick Kick.. don't mount up with this schmuck against me... you ain't winning if you do chamaquito. With me you can at least get a little milk every now and then... with him you'll just look like an idiot most of the time.

ROFL did this guy really try to refute my facts with OPINIONS from other posters to back up his OPINION. ROFL. Is this guy for real?

Wow BLAHHAHAHAAHAHA. He even quoted TKF and doczauis. ROFL. I honestly did not think you were this dumb. But ok lets play this game.

My opinion: I utterly destroyed you in this debate if you can even call it that.

Here I will back it up with another board member's opinion.

Sonned.

give it up, Ibes. Your boy Lin is flaming basura, and Shump just handed you your hat.

Well I guess that clears it. I got a guy on a message board agreeing with me so it must be true. Facts be damned. ROFL. This is getting sad.

[Thugger HBC]

^Thugger - I think there is also an ongoing conversation going on about an approach that favors acquisition of established players over player development. I think both approaches can be done well (or quite poorly). The two approaches can also be integrated. But often times particular players get dragged down into these debates and I think more recent posters get caught up in the players.

We had managers for a long time that did the acquisition approach quite poorly and more recently some that do it much better. I still wish we'd put a little more value in development... maybe that is the direction we're taking with guys like Shump, Sims, and whoever we draft next. I hope it is.



Edit - also glad you said something about the Anime stuff. It is quite distasteful.

But see here's the thing about "developing talent".....you can still develop and try to win, but those younger players have to be easy to step in and contribute....the team cannot wait for them.

Now i think we can all agree that the Miami Heat are the team to beat in the East, we could not have our starting pg still having issues playing against them, on top of still learning the position overall.

Sometimes teams give away quality, it happens alot, and that's the good thing about being an NBA fan....you get to see it all.

[j4remi]

Team construction is a fun discussion period. Talent vs Fit, Potential vs Present Ability, Cap management...so many things fall into the discussion. I think the Spurs should literally be the blue print for all, at least after they lucked into Duncan. They built around him, stashed talent over seas and created a an environment where you HAVE to be a character guy to fit in.

[21shumpshumpst]

Team construction is a fun discussion period. Talent vs Fit, Potential vs Present Ability, Cap management...so many things fall into the discussion. I think the Spurs should literally be the blue print for all, at least after they lucked into Duncan. They built around him, stashed talent over seas and created a an environment where you HAVE to be a character guy to fit in.

This is a fallacy. I hate it when people say "well look at how good the Spurs or OKC built their team".

Those teams lucked out and had a transcendent talent in Duncan and KD who would make 4 monkeys look like nba players if they had to.

Duncan and KD just make everyone around them look like ball players that has nothing to do with the front office and everything to do with getting lucky in the draft.

[Capn'O]

^Thugger - I think there is also an ongoing conversation going on about an approach that favors acquisition of established players over player development. I think both approaches can be done well (or quite poorly). The two approaches can also be integrated. But often times particular players get dragged down into these debates and I think more recent posters get caught up in the players.

We had managers for a long time that did the acquisition approach quite poorly and more recently some that do it much better. I still wish we'd put a little more value in development... maybe that is the direction we're taking with guys like Shump, Sims, and whoever we draft next. I hope it is.



Edit - also glad you said something about the Anime stuff. It is quite distasteful.

But see here's the thing about "developing talent".....you can still develop and try to win, but those younger players have to be easy to step in and contribute....the team cannot wait for them.

Now i think we can all agree that the Miami Heat are the team to beat in the East, we could not have our starting pg still having issues playing against them, on top of still learning the position overall.

Sometimes teams give away quality, it happens alot, and that's the good thing about being an NBA fan....you get to see it all.

I said "basketball reasons" awhile ago now regarding Felton over Lin and I meant it. I REPENTED and Felton is playing some fine ball. Once the Melo trade was made, the course was definitely set. This team needs to be able to contend for the ECF/chip.

What I bolded is my dog in this fight (and you agree with me). Assuming a guy like Lin (or Lee or Nate or Gallo or Lowry or heck, even Favors) is a finished product when they're still really learning the position just makes me scratch my head. Is it real or trolling?

[j4remi]

Team construction is a fun discussion period. Talent vs Fit, Potential vs Present Ability, Cap management...so many things fall into the discussion. I think the Spurs should literally be the blue print for all, at least after they lucked into Duncan. They built around him, stashed talent over seas and created a an environment where you HAVE to be a character guy to fit in.

This is a fallacy. I hate it when people say "well look at how good the Spurs or OKC built their team".

Those teams lucked out and had a transcendent talent in Duncan and KD who would make 4 monkeys look like nba players if they had to.

Duncan and KD just make everyone around them look like ball players that has nothing to do with the front office and everything to do with getting lucky in the draft.

False, Duncan is a once in a generation talent...however, they've reconfigured the team to fit around his play a few times now. Tony Parker has been more a catalyst than Duncan on the offensive end for a couple of years now. They built a supporting cast around him despite being absolutely competitive and they did it with smart acquisitions and late picks only...As easy as it is to say, "well they got Tim Duncan" ...Yeah, Cleveland never got there. The Thunder had Durant and still SUCKED for a couple more years before they "built their team (they made ONE good late pick of the bunch tbh Ibaka and their signings handcuffed them and cost 'em Harden). What the Spurs did was excellent.

[Thugger HBC]

Switching gears....

Dwight Howard's situation is gonna be very interesting coming up.

The longer he continues to sit out injured is definitely something that may very well influence his position to stay...the dude should not have to keep answering questions about whether he has talked to Kobe...manning up and playing hurt, etc.

Hearing some comments made by Dwight...dude just might walk.

"I want to play," Howard said. "I mean, why wouldn't I want to play? But, at the same time, this is my career, this is my future, this is my life. I can't leave that up to anybody else because nobody else is going to take care of me. So, if people are pissed off that I don't play or if I do play, whatever it may be, so what? This is my career. If I go down, then what? Everybody's life is going to go on. I don't want to have another summer where I'm rehabbing and trying to get healthy again. I want to come back and have another great year. That's what I want to do."

“Why would I have to explain that to Kobe?” Howard said to a reporter. “Is he a doctor? So I have to explain that to all my teammates?”

“That’s his opinion,” Howard said at the team’s shootaround at TD Garden as the Lakers prepared for tonight’s game against the Celtics. “That’s it. He’s not a doctor. I’m not a doctor. That’s his opinion.”