Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert

[HatersGonHate]

Yeah he could possibly be a decent starting G on a winning team, but only if he is like 4th option. Put him on OKC or something who will win like 60 games regardless. That's saying a bit, but not saying too much.

Just don't say he will average 17ppg (max) on any team. He has 54 FTA in 42 games this year, and in his 3rd year in the league is a sub 40% shooter, as a SG. As SAS pointed out, at least if you can't get to the line (Mike Miller, Novak, or some guys like that), at least have some kind of specialty. He can't create his own shot.

I do agree he could be better somewhat in a different system, but I think we can say that about a lot of players stuck on crappy teams and even above average teams. I just think he is way overhyped at times in NY and our expectations of him in this system are way unrealistic for a guy who was considered "untradeable" just a year ago.

[iHeartKNicks]

Making a judgment on Shumpert based on this season's #'s is unfair imo. We really have no clue what he can or can't do because he's never had a defined role on any of the Knicks teams he's been on (besides being our 'defensive specialist'. Hard to get mad about at Shump for not getting to the line when his #1 priority is to feed Melo. Woodsons offensive pace is way to slow for Shump. Our whole team is shooting bad.
Bargnani 77 FTA
JR Smith 59 FTA <- our guard who was supposed to handle most of the wing scoring.
Jr Smith 425 FGA Iman Shumpert 276 FGA
He has 4 less free throw attempts and took 149 less shots than JR.

Melo is the only Knick with over 100 FTA's. So nobody is getting to the line. You make it seem as if Iman has the ball in his hands enough or is placed in a role to score. When theres a bad offensive system in place the numbers are going to be bad. You bringing up #'s actually supports my argument that this system is bad for everyone not named Melo.

[GONYK]

Making a judgment on Shumpert based on this season's #'s is unfair imo. We really have no clue what he can or can't do because he's never had a defined role on any of the Knicks teams he's been on (besides being our 'defensive specialist'. Hard to get mad about at Shump for not getting to the line when his #1 priority is to feed Melo. Woodsons offensive pace is way to slow for Shump. Our whole team is shooting bad.
Bargnani 77 FTA
JR Smith 59 FTA <- our guard who was supposed to handle most of the wing scoring.
Jr Smith 425 FGA Iman Shumpert 276 FGA
He has 4 less free throw attempts and took 149 less shots than JR.

Melo is the only Knick with over 100 FTA's. So nobody is getting to the line. You make it seem as if Iman has the ball in his hands enough or is placed in a role to score. When theres a bad offensive system in place the numbers are going to be bad. You bringing up #'s actually supports my argument that this system is bad for everyone not named Melo.

Well, this season, he's proven that he can't dribble, finish or shoot consistently. That has nothing to do with his role or the offensive system.

Let's not sugarcoat it, he has played like sh*t.

The kid still has time to find his way though.

[iHeartKNicks]

Well, this season, he's proven that he can't dribble, finish or shoot consistently. That has nothing to do with his role or the offensive system.

Let's not sugarcoat it, he has played like sh*t.

The kid still has time to find his way though.

I dont disagree. Our coaches are terrible and were one of the worst teams when it comes to player development. In this lost season we should be giving our young guys (not just Shump specifically) the opportunity to see if they have roles in the teams future instead of chasing a fools gold playoff spot.
I feel that Shump playing bad is a direct reflection of the team and no so much Shumpert himself.
But all Im saying is that its unfair to frown on Shumpert for not being consistent when our basketball franchise as a whole has been inconsistent all year.

Murray
Shumpert
Melo
Tyler
Chandler
And lets go down fighting.

[RC3isback]

Hardaway is way better than shumpert. Shumpert just not that good. I would trade him

[Damas]

Well, this season, he's proven that he can't dribble, finish or shoot consistently. That has nothing to do with his role or the offensive system.

Let's not sugarcoat it, he has played like sh*t.

The kid still has time to find his way though.

I dont disagree. Our coaches are terrible and were one of the worst teams when it comes to player development. In this lost season we should be giving our young guys (not just Shump specifically) the opportunity to see if they have roles in the teams future instead of chasing a fools gold playoff spot.
I feel that Shump playing bad is a direct reflection of the team and no so much Shumpert himself.
But all Im saying is that its unfair to frown on Shumpert for not being consistent when our basketball franchise as a whole has been inconsistent all year.

Murray
Shumpert
Melo
Tyler
Chandler
And lets go down fighting.

Shump is a bench player in any other team, only reason why he is started for the knicks was we were desperate. And what does he do? Wet the bed and play like crap all year long.

He could be out of the league in a couple of years if he doesn't improve. THJR is much better than Shump and should be taking his minutes but Woodson plays the kid hoping he will change.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Well, this season, he's proven that he can't dribble, finish or shoot consistently. That has nothing to do with his role or the offensive system.

Let's not sugarcoat it, he has played like sh*t.

The kid still has time to find his way though.

Shump is shooting 36% from 3 on the season. There are plenty of good offenses that include players who can make open 3s and do nothing else.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Shump is a bench player in any other team, only reason why he is started for the knicks was we were desperate. And what does he do? Wet the bed and play like crap all year long.

He could be out of the league in a couple of years if he doesn't improve. THJR is much better than Shump and should be taking his minutes but Woodson plays the kid hoping he will change.

Do you think THJ is better than Thabo too? Not saying Shump = Thabo, but it seems a lot of people just can't appreciate a good 3/D guy.

[iHeartKNicks]

Shump is a bench player in any other team, only reason why he is started for the knicks was we were desperate. And what does he do? Wet the bed and play like crap all year long.

He could be out of the league in a couple of years if he doesn't improve. THJR is much better than Shump and should be taking his minutes but Woodson plays the kid hoping he will change.

Do you think THJ is better than Thabo too? Not saying Shump = Thabo, but it seems a lot of people just can't appreciate a good 3/D guy.

Hard to play motivated ball when your name has been in trade rumors damn near all season long. This shouldn't be overlooked.

[Meat]

Shump is a bench player in any other team, only reason why he is started for the knicks was we were desperate. And what does he do? Wet the bed and play like crap all year long.

He could be out of the league in a couple of years if he doesn't improve. THJR is much better than Shump and should be taking his minutes but Woodson plays the kid hoping he will change.

Do you think THJ is better than Thabo too? Not saying Shump = Thabo, but it seems a lot of people just can't appreciate a good 3/D guy.

Hard to play motivated ball when your name has been in trade rumors damn near all season long. This shouldn't be overlooked.

blow it out your ass, and f*u*c*k that punk ass bitch shump if this is the case. Regular working people do a lot more for a lot less, if he cant get motivated because of a trade while collecting millions he doesnt deserve to play in the nba

[HatersGonHate]

Making a judgment on Shumpert based on this season's #'s is unfair imo. We really have no clue what he can or can't do because he's never had a defined role on any of the Knicks teams he's been on (besides being our 'defensive specialist'. Hard to get mad about at Shump for not getting to the line when his #1 priority is to feed Melo. Woodsons offensive pace is way to slow for Shump. Our whole team is shooting bad.
Bargnani 77 FTA
JR Smith 59 FTA <- our guard who was supposed to handle most of the wing scoring.
Jr Smith 425 FGA Iman Shumpert 276 FGA
He has 4 less free throw attempts and took 149 less shots than JR.

Melo is the only Knick with over 100 FTA's. So nobody is getting to the line. You make it seem as if Iman has the ball in his hands enough or is placed in a role to score. When theres a bad offensive system in place the numbers are going to be bad. You bringing up #'s actually supports my argument that this system is bad for everyone not named Melo.

I agree that this whole "system" is not the best, but it's essentially the same as last year when NYK had 54 wins and were pretty much a coinflip by many to beat IND in round 2. THJ is in his first year and going to the line as much and playing 10 mins less. I agree that Shump could def be a good 3/D guy, but let's not say he'll be a 16-17ppg scorer anytime soon based on him creating shots (lack thereof) and getting to the line (lack thereof). It's his 3rd year and definitely room for improvement, but based on what we've seen, he's likely never going to be going to the FT line more than 3 times a game or be anytime of slasher or catch-n-shoot guy off screens.


One of my main points is that if he scores 10pts in a game these days, that's above his season average, so it's something expected and we shouldn't be surprised he's not scoring any more than that.

[iHeartKNicks]

I agree that this whole "system" is not the best, but it's essentially the same as last year when NYK had 54 wins and were pretty much a coinflip by many to beat IND in round 2. THJ is in his first year and going to the line as much and playing 10 mins less. I agree that Shump could def be a good 3/D guy, but let's not say he'll be a 16-17ppg scorer anytime soon based on him creating shots (lack thereof) and getting to the line (lack thereof). It's his 3rd year and definitely room for improvement, but based on what we've seen, he's likely never going to be going to the FT line more than 3 times a game or be anytime of slasher or catch-n-shoot guy off screens.


One of my main points is that if he scores 10pts in a game these days, that's above his season average, so it's something expected and we shouldn't be surprised he's not scoring any more than that.

If you reference the post I said 14 points to 17 points max why are you making it seem like I said Shumpert playing well is a 17ppg player? Can you make an argument out of Shump not being a 14ppg player in the correct system since I did say 14 to 17 points max? Nowhere did I say he should be creating shots. Nowhere. All I said was in the right system, Shumpert can contribute to winning basketball in every aspect of basketball which is not limited to just scoring. We clearly have 2 different aspirations for Shumpert so lets just stop going in circles.

I like THJ but he can't dribble either. But his 3's have been dropping so I understand why you feel he should receive the bulk of the minutes. But THJ can't dribble nor does he get to the line efficiently and his defense is worse than Shumps. Ironically enough coming out of college THJ was viewed as a rim attacker and the worst part of his game was his shot. Then under Woodson THJ camps at the 3 point line and doesn't attack the rim, coincidence?
Its the system so no matter how much you're telling me that X guy is bad for whatever reason Im going to blame the system. If guys are not put in positions to maximize their basketball potential… well were 15-27. Noboody's thriving with what we currently have in place so I feel using statistics to prove that X player on a team that is 15-27 is irrelevant.
Last year we had a real point guard named Jason Kidd whom had stretches where he couldn't hit a shot either but made sure we had ball movement, a tempo and rhythm to our offense. Veterans, not Woodsons philosophy is the reason why last season and this season is night & day. You can't force a bird to swim underwater and think you're gonna be successful.

& for the record we could have beat Indy but we were out strategized and made no adjustments to correct anything. Us losing to Indy was not only Woodsons fault, we were outplayed out hustled beat in every aspect of basketball period. A team takes on the identity of their coach.

[HatersGonHate]

I agree that this whole "system" is not the best, but it's essentially the same as last year when NYK had 54 wins and were pretty much a coinflip by many to beat IND in round 2. THJ is in his first year and going to the line as much and playing 10 mins less. I agree that Shump could def be a good 3/D guy, but let's not say he'll be a 16-17ppg scorer anytime soon based on him creating shots (lack thereof) and getting to the line (lack thereof). It's his 3rd year and definitely room for improvement, but based on what we've seen, he's likely never going to be going to the FT line more than 3 times a game or be anytime of slasher or catch-n-shoot guy off screens.


One of my main points is that if he scores 10pts in a game these days, that's above his season average, so it's something expected and we shouldn't be surprised he's not scoring any more than that.

If you reference the post I said 14 points to 17 points max why are you making it seem like I said Shumpert playing well is a 17ppg player? Can you make an argument out of Shump not being a 14ppg player in the correct system since I did say 14 to 17 points max? Nowhere did I say he should be creating shots. Nowhere. All I said was in the right system, Shumpert can contribute to winning basketball in every aspect of basketball which is not limited to just scoring. We clearly have 2 different aspirations for Shumpert so lets just stop going in circles.

I like THJ but he can't dribble either. But his 3's have been dropping so I understand why you feel he should receive the bulk of the minutes. But THJ can't dribble nor does he get to the line efficiently and his defense is worse than Shumps. Ironically enough coming out of college THJ was viewed as a rim attacker and the worst part of his game was his shot. Then under Woodson THJ camps at the 3 point line and doesn't attack the rim, coincidence?
Its the system so no matter how much you're telling me that X guy is bad for whatever reason Im going to blame the system. If guys are not put in positions to maximize their basketball potential… well were 15-27. Noboody's thriving with what we currently have in place so I feel using statistics to prove that X player on a team that is 15-27 is irrelevant.
Last year we had a real point guard named Jason Kidd whom had stretches where he couldn't hit a shot either but made sure we had ball movement, a tempo and rhythm to our offense. Veterans, not Woodsons philosophy is the reason why last season and this season is night & day. You can't force a bird to swim underwater and think you're gonna be successful.

& for the record we could have beat Indy but we were out strategized and made no adjustments to correct anything. Us losing to Indy was not only Woodsons fault, we were outplayed out hustled beat in every aspect of basketball period. A team takes on the identity of their coach.

Dude even 14ppg anytime soon, I'm just asking you to list me a "system" Which team's system? Does Shumpert average even say 11ppg in any NYK "system" in the past 15 years? Does he average 15ppg on Mia, GS, SA, OKC, Indiana? Check the scoring leaders on those teams. I'd like to repeat: Can't create his own shot, never gets to the line. Above average defender? Yes.

A guy who can't even more than 2FGM and a couple FT attempts a game playing ~28 mins is not much of an offensive threat, which again people are expecting of him.

[iHeartKNicks]

Dude even 14ppg anytime soon, I'm just asking you to list me a "system" Which team's system? Does Shumpert average even say 11ppg in any NYK "system" in the past 15 years? Does he average 15ppg on Mia, GS, SA, OKC, Indiana? Check the scoring leaders on those teams. I'd like to repeat: Can't create his own shot, never gets to the line. Above average defender? Yes.

A guy who can't even more than 2FGM and a couple FT attempts a game playing ~28 mins is not much of an offensive threat, which again people are expecting of him.

I say system, you reply questioning his offensive abilities. A system is more than offense and shooting %'s. Pointless but ill play along...
Tony Allen Avergaes 10 for Memphis, 18% from 3 68% from the line on 9 FGA per game.
Iman Shumpert averages 7, 36% from 3 78% from the line on 6 FGA per. So if we double Allen's 3PT% +9% to his FT; Im no math major by far but I'm pretty sure we could find +6 points to add to his #'s which would put Tony in the minimum 14 max 17 PPG bracket. No this is not me saying that the correct "system" for us to adapt is Memphis' btw.
& I still feel that its unfair to judge a guy based off his shooting %'s when he only takes 6 shots a game.

Actually the idea that we need to outshoot opponents is a very big reason as to why this team & offensive system is horrible not only for Shump, the entire Knick organization. Iso ball ever won a championship?

Complaining about the tires of your car being flat & overlooking that the car has no engine or transmission means nothing.

[fullermd]

Shumpert is a good young player with a huge upside in athletic ability bb skills, and most of all character.... the problem is that he is surrounded by a bunch of low-character vets that cannot help him take the next logical step in his progression.. I am finally convinced that the problem with the Knicks is that the front office has done a poor job in maintaining high-character vets on the roster..... Melo and Amare are not what we need in the character department.. I've literally gasp for air after seeing some of the bs that Amare has pulled over the past 2-3 seasons.............. Melo, convinced me that he is not the guy, when the team was on a winning streak after stinking up the first part of this season, and he complained about a back-to-back game at the end of an interview.... I am persuaded that our problem is over-paid low-character vets, which is bottom-line due to a poor approach to talent held by the front office.... OUR FRONT OFFICE IS THE PROBLEM

[HatersGonHate]

Dude even 14ppg anytime soon, I'm just asking you to list me a "system" Which team's system? Does Shumpert average even say 11ppg in any NYK "system" in the past 15 years? Does he average 15ppg on Mia, GS, SA, OKC, Indiana? Check the scoring leaders on those teams. I'd like to repeat: Can't create his own shot, never gets to the line. Above average defender? Yes.

A guy who can't even more than 2FGM and a couple FT attempts a game playing ~28 mins is not much of an offensive threat, which again people are expecting of him.

I say system, you reply questioning his offensive abilities. A system is more than offense and shooting %'s. Pointless but ill play along...
Tony Allen Avergaes 10 for Memphis, 18% from 3 68% from the line on 9 FGA per game.
Iman Shumpert averages 7, 36% from 3 78% from the line on 6 FGA per. So if we double Allen's 3PT% +9% to his FT; Im no math major by far but I'm pretty sure we could find +6 points to add to his #'s which would put Tony in the minimum 14 max 17 PPG bracket. No this is not me saying that the correct "system" for us to adapt is Memphis' btw.
& I still feel that its unfair to judge a guy based off his shooting %'s when he only takes 6 shots a game.

Actually the idea that we need to outshoot opponents is a very big reason as to why this team & offensive system is horrible not only for Shump, the entire Knick organization. Iso ball ever won a championship?

Complaining about the tires of your car being flat & overlooking that the car has no engine or transmission means nothing.

I guess you conveniently forgot to omit the fact that Tony Allen is 49% from the field and didn't account for that dip in Shumpert's projected numbers.. and the 18% 3FG% is pretty misleading since Tony Allen takes 0.5 3FGA career... Allen Crabbe from Portland is shooting 64% from 3pt (same # of attempts as Tony Allen) - it's called a small sample size... Crabbe won't exactly be invited to any All Star 3 pt contests in this lifetime... no one is looking for Tony Allen to shoot 3's, but in Shumpert we're proclaiming him to be that "3/D" guy... worst flawed math ever.

Trust me I would love for you to be right, I just don't see it happening anytime soon in any system. He is not averaging 15-16ppg in any system, maybe one or two max which I can't think of, but then we are talking about one or two out of 30 teams.

[Fat Kat]

Still talking about Ronnie Brewer part deux?

[god shammgod]

i wish he would just start getting back to playing consistent defense. his effort level is all over the place.

[HatersGonHate]

i wish he would just start getting back to playing consistent defense. his effort level is all over the place.

I agree.. his defense is starting to become a bit overrated.. Trust me, I take those "Plus/Minus" numbers very carefully since there's a lot of context towards them, but vs Philly he was a -19 (worst in the game for either team). I'm sure he's had games where he was higher than almost everyone, so I will say in advance that those stats are pretty subjective.

[Damas]

Shumpert is a good young player with a huge upside in athletic ability bb skills, and most of all character.... the problem is that he is surrounded by a bunch of low-character vets that cannot help him take the next logical step in his progression.. I am finally convinced that the problem with the Knicks is that the front office has done a poor job in maintaining high-character vets on the roster..... Melo and Amare are not what we need in the character department.. I've literally gasp for air after seeing some of the bs that Amare has pulled over the past 2-3 seasons.............. Melo, convinced me that he is not the guy, when the team was on a winning streak after stinking up the first part of this season, and he complained about a back-to-back game at the end of an interview.... I am persuaded that our problem is over-paid low-character vets, which is bottom-line due to a poor approach to talent held by the front office.... OUR FRONT OFFICE IS THE PROBLEM

I guess those 0 point games are part of the good or the fumbling out of bound handles he has or lacklustre 3 pont %?