Knicks Vs. Magic PG Discomfiture

[mpharris36]

Let's just trade cokehead and Calderon for Eric Gordon.

and then what, murder him so he can't pick up that ridiculous player option, which he will 110% opt into?

[GONYK]

Let's just trade cokehead and Calderon for Eric Gordon.

and then what, murder him so he can't pick up that ridiculous player option, which he will 110% opt into?

[mpharris36]

I took some positives away even though it was another loss. Defense had its low points but overall felt it was second decent defensive effort. Carmelo played well which is a good sign. JR had a solid game and Shumpert played well again. The Knicks frankly had enough to win this game but they lost.

The defense is improving. There are stretches of very good D, but then that usually means that we aren't scoring on the other end.

the stretches of good defense are when Dalembert is in the game and not Amare/Jason Smith

See this is where we differ. I would rather have Dalmbert missing open jumpers (and us running the system properly) and playing good defense. Then amare just putting his head down and go to the rim and playing horrendous defense.

Because if dalembert and cole are just missing shots that is easier to envision what this offense can be if we are able to get Marc Gasol. And instead of Dalembert and Cole taking those shots it will be Gasol.

Instead I have to watch Amare and Jason Smiths horrendous P&R defense which is a guaranteed open look for the opponent.

Same with JR smith. I would rather have Cleanthony Early running the system properly then JR Smith occasionally being able to hit a crazy step back long 2. It's great when it happens, and the fans cheer and we get 2 points for it. But it isn't smart/good basketball.

I would rather suck and do things the right way, then possibly (and we don't even now if we would be slightly better) amare and JR playing stupid ball and have a better chance of winning.

Because then we could envision the team with better players and what it could do.

Right now all I see is JR smith terrible step back contested 2 and Amare and Jason Smiths horrendous team defense. And its terrible to watch.

[K_ick_God]

Players may or may not be moved in December. Fisher is playing with house money, so he might as well see what gels. Should he have done it in preseason? He did, but he couldn't find a mix of offense and defense. The problem is, with this roster, there isn' one.

You also can't want wins, and also not want JR and Amare to play. Outside of Melo and recently Shump, those are the only people on the team who can create offense. It's either you lose to Orlando by two or you lose by 15. Either way, people will complain.


Also, Amare has been playing well, so step off

I'm not going to get into amare playing well because he destroys are entire defense when he is in so anything he does offensively is offset by that. But we don't need to go down that road.

You say you can't want wins and also not JR and Amare to play. They have played 9 games and we are 2-7 so it doesn't seem like either is effecting Wins and Losses, well actually they are effecting losses.

And that is what idiots do, they lose games.

Are you saying we would be 1-8 if Cleanthony Early got all of JR's minutes and Cole got all of Amares minutes.

I might say we would be better than 2-7 because those guys would play more within the system and play better defense. that would be progress.

Watching to dummies play stupid basketball isn't progress.

You yourself come on and post a "I don't care" gif after we lose. So I am with you on that I don't care either. So lets not care with actually players who play the game of basketball the right way.

THAT SIR IS PROGRESS.

I don't care about the lack of talent I want the game played the right way and the system played the right way and those two idiots wont change, because they are who they are.

I as a fan don't care about W's and L's. Fisher as a coach does, and he's playing the players who give him the best change to win. That's why we aren't tanking. We're just not talented.

Most players on this team murder our defense. Not sure why Amare is being singled out. Especially when his man-to-man D has been pretty solid and his rebounding has been damn good. 11/8 on 50% shooting in 24 mins is great from a backup, no matter how it is sliced.

JR on the other hand needs a shorter leash. He would have one too if Shump stops picking up 4 fouls a half.

I think you're right. We do a lot of handwringing and analyzing/complaining, and that's what a forum is for, but in the end the roster is just obviously not good.

Fisher has a ways to go to find his groove, he's obviously still learning, but if the roster was at all good, we would not be losing to bad teams and getting killed by good teams.

They could start executing well and win a few games as they get comfortable and Fisher's hand becomes stronger. But I see the playoffs as a pretty long shot, and I think extreme long shot is not hyperbole.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

I don't believe there are plenty of examples of less talented players consistently playing ahead of more talented players.

We aren't establishing JR as a centerpiece and THJ has started more games than JR this year.

The fact of the matter is, THJ is too costly and brings too little to the table at this point. It's not even like he's a better fit. He makes as many poor decisions as JR does.

Committing to him at this stage in the season is jumping the gun.

If we're assuming that THJ can only play spot minutes, it doesn't follow that JR needs to play the 26 mpg he's getting now. We'd be better off sticking with a bigger line-up and taking the hit on offense. Right now I feel as if we are going small IN ORDER TO create more minutes for JR, based on the assumption that his offensive contributions offset the defensive sacrifice that's brought about by going smaller. I think this overstates his offensive contributions, which tend to level out in the aggregate, as last night was a perfect example of.

[GONYK]

I took some positives away even though it was another loss. Defense had its low points but overall felt it was second decent defensive effort. Carmelo played well which is a good sign. JR had a solid game and Shumpert played well again. The Knicks frankly had enough to win this game but they lost.

The defense is improving. There are stretches of very good D, but then that usually means that we aren't scoring on the other end.

the stretches of good defense are when Dalembert is in the game and not Amare/Jason Smith

See this is where we differ. I would rather have Dalmbert missing open jumpers (and us running the system properly) and playing good defense. Then amare just putting his head down and go to the rim and playing horrendous defense.

Because if dalembert and cole are just missing shots that is easier to envision what this offense can be if we are able to get Marc Gasol. And instead of Dalembert and Cole taking those shots it will be Gasol.

Instead I have to watch Amare and Jason Smiths horrendous P&R defense which is a guaranteed open look for the opponent.

Same with JR smith. I would rather have Cleanthony Early running the system properly then JR Smith occasionally being able to hit a crazy step back long 2. It's great when it happens, and the fans cheer and we get 2 points for it. But it isn't smart/good basketball.

I would rather suck and do things the right way, then possibly (and we don't even now if we would be slightly better) amare and JR playing stupid ball and have a better chance of winning.

Because then we could envision the team with better players and what it could do.

Right now all I see is JR smith terrible step back contested 2 and Amare and Jason Smiths horrendous team defense. And its terrible to watch.

You're advocating for a tank, which we are not doing at this point in time.

Maybe you'll get your wish in a few months.

[Rasho Brezec]

Let's just trade cokehead and Calderon for Eric Gordon.

and then what, murder him so he can't pick up that ridiculous player option, which he will 110% opt into?

Who gives a ****, you clear Calderon's 7.7M in 2016.

[Tank_Commander]

Lol u guys are too negative, come join us in the tank.

It's nice and cozy in here, and there's still plenty of room!

[GONYK]

I don't believe there are plenty of examples of less talented players consistently playing ahead of more talented players.

We aren't establishing JR as a centerpiece and THJ has started more games than JR this year.

The fact of the matter is, THJ is too costly and brings too little to the table at this point. It's not even like he's a better fit. He makes as many poor decisions as JR does.

Committing to him at this stage in the season is jumping the gun.

If we're assuming that THJ can only play spot minutes, it doesn't follow that JR needs to play the 26 mpg he's getting now. We'd be better off sticking with a bigger line-up and taking the hit on offense. Right now I feel as if we are going small IN ORDER TO create more minutes for JR, based on the assumption that his offensive contributions offset the defensive sacrifice that's brought about by going smaller. I think this overstates his offensive contributions, which tend to level out in the aggregate, as last night was a perfect example of.

What does this bigger defensive lineup that eliminates JR and plays better defense look like?

I'm genuinely asking.

[kane2021]

If you are willing to take my 2 worst contracts and one of my headaches, in exchange for a shorter deal on a better player,.......... im not messing with you. Its a setup for a robbery. A jooks. White van special item. Thats the type of trade they advertise on craigslist and the English be all messed up and suspicious.

[mpharris36]

Let's just trade cokehead and Calderon for Eric Gordon.

and then what, murder him so he can't pick up that ridiculous player option, which he will 110% opt into?

Who gives a ****, you clear Calderon's 7.7M in 2016.

you as well as anyone (who knows the cap) should know that 7.7 in 2016 is going to be nothing. What is the projected cap in 2016 going to be. Projected what 80 million possibly or even higher?

That's not even 10% of the cap in Calderon. By the time the cap gets that high that will be the price of the standard backup in the league.

Phil wouldn't have brought in Calderon if he was worried about 2016. You know Phil is looking to improve in 2015. He isn't wasting another year of Melo's prime to just wait for 2016.

We gotta be realistic hear. We are signing someone big this offseason. You can put that in the bank.

[mpharris36]

You're advocating for a tank, which we are not doing at this point in time.

Maybe you'll get your wish in a few months.

you look at it as a tank because you see amare and JR as more talented player. I look at is playing the game the right way and improving our defense. Because you spend just as much time on the defensive end as you do on the offensive end.

So no I am not advocating tanking, I advocate playing the game the right way. Like you said if we win great. If we lose great. Just play both sides of the ball the right way and I will be happy. That is what I call progress.

[GONYK]

You're advocating for a tank, which we are not doing at this point in time.

Maybe you'll get your wish in a few months.

you look at it as a tank because you see amare and JR as more talented player. I look at is playing the game the right way and improving our defense. Because you spend just as much time on the defensive end as you do on the offensive end.

So no I am not advocating tanking, I advocate playing the game the right way. Like you said if we win great. If we lose great. Just play both sides of the ball the right way and I will be happy. That is what I call progress.

You aren't advocating playing both sides of the ball. You're mainly advocating playing the other side of the ball.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

What does this bigger defensive lineup that eliminates JR and plays better defense look like?

I'm genuinely asking.

I'm not saying eliminate JR. Just don't have him out there in the last 5 minutes. In general I'd roll with:

Larkin
Shump
Melo
Stat
Dally

And when Shump and/or Melo are in foul trouble, I'd put Prigs next in the pecking order at the 2, unless we're playing against a 2 like Wes Matthews who's going to crush us in post-ups. And this becomes a better line-up when Calderon is healthy and can replace Prigs, as he has size to not get abused in the post by 2-guards.

[mpharris36]

You're advocating for a tank, which we are not doing at this point in time.

Maybe you'll get your wish in a few months.

you look at it as a tank because you see amare and JR as more talented player. I look at is playing the game the right way and improving our defense. Because you spend just as much time on the defensive end as you do on the offensive end.

So no I am not advocating tanking, I advocate playing the game the right way. Like you said if we win great. If we lose great. Just play both sides of the ball the right way and I will be happy. That is what I call progress.

You aren't advocating playing both sides of the ball. You're mainly advocating playing the other side of the ball.

just because we are missing open looks doesn't mean we are playing bad offense. I can live with missing the right shot. I can't live with losing and watching JR STIFF take that dumbazz contested fad away. That isn't changing the culture. That is putting up with the same **** the old regime did and look where that got us.

You tell the young guns to play tough defense, and on misses run. Run the hell out of the opponents.

If you can't get a fast break hoop. Get into the triangle sets and find the right shot. If we miss we miss.

That is the basketball I want to see. Until we can actually get the right kind of talent in here.

[moocow007]

Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA · 2h 2 hours ago
Knicks on pace for lowest free throw/field-goal attempt ratio in league history: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... er_by=wins …

We need to, whenever are roster is complete, make our offense isn't functioning as it is...where the best available shot is always a mid range jumper. Just bails the defense out every freaking play.

And just as an FYI...both the Bulls and the Lakers championship teams were among the league leaders (highest) in free throw/field-goal attempts. So it's not "normal" for the Triangle if anyone is wondering.

So you're telling me it might be rash to post that the triangle has been EXPOSED as a response to that post?

lol yes.

[moocow007]

Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA · 2h 2 hours ago
Knicks on pace for lowest free throw/field-goal attempt ratio in league history: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... er_by=wins …

We need to, whenever are roster is complete, make our offense isn't functioning as it is...where the best available shot is always a mid range jumper. Just bails the defense out every freaking play.

Clyde summed it up perfectly last night.. our guards are contend to just meander around the perimeter. They love to just dribble lackadaisically side to side and eventually hoist up hero J's. The best way for Phil to make it loud and clear that this BS is not acceptable is to get rid of the main culprit: JR Smith, who probably holds the record in all of league history for ratio of athleticism to FT attempts.

It's not about lack of talent. Shump and THJ are nice first steps and can get into the paint. But they're playing for a franchise that has basically carved out an identity over the past 15 years of being a haven for any player in the league that just wants to dribble aimlessly, jab step, and shoot jumpers. So it's not surprising they think it's OK to do the same.

Wait...so you blame Smith fully but fully excuse Shumpert and Hardaway? Now imagine if the coaching staff actually did that. You guys would be screaming your heads off. And yet....

[GONYK]

What does this bigger defensive lineup that eliminates JR and plays better defense look like?

I'm genuinely asking.

I'm not saying eliminate JR. Just don't have him out there in the last 5 minutes. In general I'd roll with:

Larkin
Shump
Melo
Stat
Dally

And when Shump and/or Melo are in foul trouble, I'd put Prigs next in the pecking order at the 2, unless we're playing against a 2 like Wes Matthews who's going to crush us in post-ups. And this becomes a better line-up when Calderon is healthy and can replace Prigs, as he has size to not get abused in the post by 2-guards.

If you are talking strictly a lineup for the last 5 mins, I don't have a problem with that.

[moocow007]

To those who said we need to keep JR and that this team will win 50+ games...

...thanks for playing.

So JR Smith is responsible for the rest of the teams play last night? He's responsible for no defensive effort across the board? He's responsible for Hardaway going 1-8? Did he untie everyone's shoes? You can apply that statement still to everyone on the team not named Carmelo Anthony. The game is played across 48 minutes, not across the last 3.8 seconds.

[mpharris36]

and can we please, I mean please talk to our players about reaching in?

how ever thought that was a legit way to play defense. You stay in front of your man but you don't reach.

Maybe later in the quarter you can be more aggressive. But picking up 2-3 fouls in the first couple minutes is awful defending. Shumpert is one of the main culperates. Dude has played great this year but stop f*cking reaching. Your reaching means you are in foul trouble and play less minutes. Which means that I have to see more of that STIFF JR