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PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6

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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#441 » by KnicksScholar24 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 1:43 pm

Side beard wrote:Image
Is this some kind of sick joke? :lol:

DIdn't like DRose in first half, but loved him in second. Used his talent to utilize his teammates.
KOQ plays like he is on 10-day contract.
Jennings - while he did not hit that many shots, liked his playmaking.
Maybe with time Melo will start to play like Team USA Melo and let other guy orchestrate the offense. ISO Melo can be deadly, but it totally kills the ball movement.

As far as KP goes I think he'll become what Paul George, Lebron and few others are for their teams. He will be the guy who closes out the game in second half.


One of the more cogent and reasonable things I've read on this board in a while, and it comes from a poster who may not even be a Knicks fan.

RealGm Knicks fans are usually hyperbolic and express over-the-top reactions in these game and post-game threads.

One bad shooting night in the first preseason game of year equates to "Melo is done. Let's trade him and rebuild."
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#442 » by Knickerbock » Thu Oct 6, 2016 1:44 pm

Kyle Oquin is great rebounder.. He is very intelligent guy but he is makes terrible decisions defensively.. He basically bails out the opposing team over and over by fouling them and sending them to the free throw line..

Trust me... With Kyle Oquin out..and joakim Noah in the starting line up.. It will be a different team defensively
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#443 » by popeye7318 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 1:54 pm

Iso melo works in doses. It especially works when he has a mismatch.

My problem with iso-melo in Houston was that there was only one outcome. Melo shoots or drives. He needs to acknowledge the cutter and dish. Plus he deserves the criticism that he is getting right now. He is the "leader" of the team and the vet of this team.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#444 » by HEZI » Thu Oct 6, 2016 2:02 pm

blueNorange wrote:
SMAC-K wrote:Melo does have a tendency to turn into this guy

Image

No Sharrington

god dammit that was such a great nickname.


Did you come up with it bno? I really can't remember but it certainly sounds like something you made up :lol:
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#445 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 2:06 pm

popeye7318 wrote:Iso melo works in doses. It especially works when he has a mismatch.

My problem with iso-melo in Houston was that there was only one outcome. Melo shoots or drives. He needs to acknowledge the cutter and dish. Plus he deserves the criticism that he is getting right now. He is the "leader" of the team and the vet of this team.


PRE-SEASON GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R-E-L-A-X
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#446 » by popeye7318 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 2:22 pm

Rotten Apple wrote:
popeye7318 wrote:Iso melo works in doses. It especially works when he has a mismatch.

My problem with iso-melo in Houston was that there was only one outcome. Melo shoots or drives. He needs to acknowledge the cutter and dish. Plus he deserves the criticism that he is getting right now. He is the "leader" of the team and the vet of this team.


PRE-SEASON GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R-E-L-A-X


I've seen this crap too much to relax. Been a fan way too long and now I can't tolerate it.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#447 » by KnicksScholar24 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 2:34 pm

xNewYorkMadex wrote:I liked what I saw from Rose, just didnt like all the times he jumped in the air to pass. Did it too many times for my liking.


You must have despised Jerian Grant last year.

I do agree that it's a bad habit, but Rose has been doing it for years and it does it effectively enough that it is not a real problem.

I would like to see Rose drive-and-kick more like Harden, Wall, and even Westbrook. His drives are usually to get himself a layup or a floater. That is cool, but if he altered his driving mentality to include looking for open teammates (especially Lee, Melo, and Porzingis spot-up behind the arc) more often, New York could play more of a GSW/Spurs type of game.



If you look at the above video, almost all of Rose's drives had a teammate WIDE open for 3 in the corner. Particularly the drive at the 1:30 mark; Courtney Lee was open in the corner thanks to James Harden. Porzingis was open after the slip, Ariza stayed close to Melo. All 3 were behind the arc spreading the court, making the drive easy for Rose. Conventional wisdom: An open layup is a higher percentage shot than an open 3, so take it, but a team's offense becomes the most unstoppable when they can generate a lot of open 3-point attempts for capable outside shooters (especially in today's post-Phoenix-D'Antoni NBA). It's the reason NY got blown out vs. the Rockets. Harden was generating offense for both himself and his teammates. Rose was doing it mostly for himself. He got a lot of his assist for set plays, such as Porizings' 3-point pop-out off of down screens or split-and-pop 3s with KP.

Sidenote: Notice how Rose put up the same numbers he average last season in this game. Positive note - He did it, while having a poor first half.

NY has the weapons, imo, to rain down threes like the Warriors, the other SuperTeam (in Derrick's mind), although not to that extreme. Rose should use his ability to penetrate and collapse the D to initiate the offense for teammates more. ISO Melo is likely no longer the best initiator of offense, although he can be some game (when he is hot).

They'll just have to worry about installing a team defense (which is why Thibodeau made more sense than Hornacek). That is what would've turned NY into a title contender. The offense would have worked itself out on its own, if the players found a way to play off of each and stick to that role (i.e. Olympic Melo vs. NBA Melo).

I think the offense will be fine, especially with Noah out there helping the ball movement and finding open teammates. Although, I believe the full offense power will be unlocked with Rose incorporating drive-and-kicks into his arsenal. The defensive system need extreme work. We have the wing defenders (when Melo is not looking like he's 130 yrs old) an defensive bigs (at least int he starting unit) to become a top 15 defensive team, imo.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#448 » by F N 11 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 2:54 pm

Just rewatched the game. O Quinn is wack.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#449 » by Knicks_Fan2 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:04 pm

K P 6 wrote:Just rewatched the game. O Quinn is wack.


Kyle just has poor court awareness and an overall terrible mental feel for the game at this level. You can tell he has talent but he constantly makes the wrong decision and, when he gets the ball, you know it's going up. I support him but in no possible way can he play against opposing starters. If Noah can't go when the games matter, KP has to move to the 5 or we need another option.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#450 » by F N 11 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:08 pm

I saw a screen by KP and lee running towards basket along with Jennings running with the ball behind him towards the hoop. I love Jeff'a offense mind. We gunna be ok.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#451 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:33 pm

popeye7318 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
popeye7318 wrote:Iso melo works in doses. It especially works when he has a mismatch.

My problem with iso-melo in Houston was that there was only one outcome. Melo shoots or drives. He needs to acknowledge the cutter and dish. Plus he deserves the criticism that he is getting right now. He is the "leader" of the team and the vet of this team.


PRE-SEASON GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R-E-L-A-X


I've seen this crap too much to relax. Been a fan way too long and now I can't tolerate it.


Oh stop crying. It's only crap when one person does it boohoo. I have never seen a fan base go this hard over the damn pre-season. I wouldn't even go this hard/crazy over the beginning of the season.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#452 » by HEZI » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:54 pm

KnicksScholar24 wrote:
xNewYorkMadex wrote:I liked what I saw from Rose, just didnt like all the times he jumped in the air to pass. Did it too many times for my liking.


You must have despised Jerian Grant last year.

I do agree that it's a bad habit, but Rose has been doing it for years and it does it effectively enough that it is not a real problem.

I would like to see Rose drive-and-kick more like Harden, Wall, and even Westbrook. His drives are usually to get himself a layup or a floater. That is cool, but if he altered his driving mentality to include looking for open teammates (especially Lee, Melo, and Porzingis spot-up behind the arc) more often, New York could play more of a GSW/Spurs type of game.



If you look at the above video, almost all of Rose's drives had a teammate WIDE open for 3 in the corner. Particularly the drive at the 1:30 mark; Courtney Lee was open in the corner thanks to James Harden. Porzingis was open after the slip, Ariza stayed close to Melo. All 3 were behind the arc spreading the court, making the drive easy for Rose. Conventional wisdom: An open layup is a higher percentage shot than an open 3, so take it, but a team's offense becomes the most unstoppable when they can generate a lot of open 3-point attempts for capable outside shooters (especially in today's post-Phoenix-D'Antoni NBA). It's the reason NY got blown out vs. the Rockets. Harden was generating offense for both himself and his teammates. Rose was doing it mostly for himself. He got a lot of his assist for set plays, such as Porizings' 3-point pop-out off of down screens or split-and-pop 3s with KP.

Sidenote: Notice how Rose put up the same numbers he average last season in this game. Positive note - He did it, while having a poor first half.

NY has the weapons, imo, to rain down threes like the Warriors, the other SuperTeam (in Derrick's mind), although not to that extreme. Rose should use his ability to penetrate and collapse the D to initiate the offense for teammates more. ISO Melo is likely no longer the best initiator of offense, although he can be some game (when he is hot).

They'll just have to worry about installing a team defense (which is why Thibodeau made more sense than Hornacek). That is what would've turned NY into a title contender. The offense would have worked itself out on its own, if the players found a way to play off of each and stick to that role (i.e. Olympic Melo vs. NBA Melo).

I think the offense will be fine, especially with Noah out there helping the ball movement and finding open teammates. Although, I believe the full offense power will be unlocked with Rose incorporating drive-and-kicks into his arsenal. The defensive system need extreme work. We have the wing defenders (when Melo is not looking like he's 130 yrs old) an defensive bigs (at least int he starting unit) to become a top 15 defensive team, imo.


He was driving and kicking out but guys just couldn't knock down the shot, that's why you don't see it on the highlight footage. If he gets into the paint and has a good look and opportunity to score, he should take it. He has great scoring ability inside the paint, which is what separates him from a guy like Rajon Rondo for example. His scoring ability is what causes the defense to collapse and opens up the shooters, so he needs to find the balance and know when to take the shot himself and when to kick it out, you don't want him kicking it out every single time because that becomes predictable and the defense will just stay at home on the shooters knowing the pass is coming. You need balance. Rose has excellent court awareness and he knows how to find his shooters so I would not worry about that at all, the shooters just need to make sure they do their job and knock down the shot.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#453 » by trophywinner » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:58 pm

i thought rose looked just as good in the first half as he did in the 2nd. he did miss some bunnies, sure, but he had some really nice passes to lee in the first half where lee simply bricked 2 wide open 3s. if lee connects on those shots, then people are talking up rose's playmaking ability. when the ball wasn't stuck in melo's hands, he was moving around really well being super aggressive in his attack, going through the defense like a hot knife through butter.

i'm most excited about rose/kp together. i think they can establish a very powerful 2-man game.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#454 » by GONYK » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:59 pm

Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#455 » by Knicks_Fan2 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 4:11 pm

GONYK wrote:Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1


I agree though I would prefer him to make his move quickly as opposed to holding the ball for 5-10 seconds making his move to score.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#456 » by Knicks_Fan2 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 4:11 pm

trophywinner wrote:i thought rose looked just as good in the first half as he did in the 2nd. he did miss some bunnies, sure, but he had some really nice passes to lee in the first half where lee simply bricked 2 wide open 3s. if lee connects on those shots, then people are talking up rose's playmaking ability. when the ball wasn't stuck in melo's hands, he was moving around really well being super aggressive in his attack, going through the defense like a hot knife through butter.

i'm most excited about rose/kp together. i think they can establish a very powerful 2-man game.


Agreed. Would like to see an emphasis on the KP/DR Pnrs this year.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#457 » by GONYK » Thu Oct 6, 2016 4:13 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
GONYK wrote:Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1


I agree though I would prefer him to make his move quickly as opposed to holding the ball for 5-10 seconds making his move to score.


Agreed. That has always been the problem. It is the time it takes to makes the decision, not solely the decision.

Ideally, he would catch the ball on the move, not in a stationary post-up.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#458 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 4:17 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
GONYK wrote:Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1


I agree though I would prefer him to make his move quickly as opposed to holding the ball for 5-10 seconds making his move to score.


Like how KP held the ball for 6 or 7 seconds on his iso against Capela that everyone went crazy over?

Melo made his moves he just didn't convert if he made the shots people would still cry they just don't want him to shoot anymore I guess
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#459 » by HEZI » Thu Oct 6, 2016 4:20 pm

GONYK wrote:Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1


Not in the early stages of the game. He is going to get plenty of 1 on 1 opportunities throughout the course of the game, he doesn't need to be going into the post in the 1st quarter. They need to establish a flow as a unit, move the ball, let everybody get a touch, run some motion screens, force the defense to shift around and chase you for a little bit. Try to get his shooters some shots and help them establish a rhythm, that way when he does go into Iso and has opportunities to kick it out to a shooter if the double team comes, those guys will have some type of rhythm already. I want to see them open up the game and get everybody involved, the game will slow down eventually and he will have his 1 on 1 opportunities, he needs to trust that and let it comes to him, don't go looking for it in the opening quarter. He can still get his shots by running some 1/3 or 3/1 pick and roll action, 3/5 or 5/3 pick and roll action and trying to help everybody else find their flow. It will only make it easier on him for when he does get his Iso opportunities.
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Re: PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6 

Post#460 » by Rotten Apple » Thu Oct 6, 2016 4:28 pm

How many times did KP pass the ball on Tuesday? I'll wait

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