2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16!

[knickstape4ever]

I don't get why Kira Lewis Jr. isn't considered w/ some of the other top PG's

I love his game:
-fast
-gets to the rim
-solid vision, playmaking
-can shoot (spotting up and off the dribble)
-gets in passing lanes defensively to rack up steals

he needs to add weight/strength, but he seems to me one of the more well rounded PG's

[mpharris36]

I don't get why Kira Lewis Jr. isn't considered w/ some of the other top PG's

I love his game:
-fast
-gets to the rim
-solid vision, playmaking
-can shoot (spotting up and off the dribble)
-gets in passing lanes defensively to rack up steals

he needs to add weight/strength, but he seems to me one of the more well rounded PG's

I agree, I don't think the gap after Lamelo and Hayes isn't that far off for all the other PG's

Haliburton
Lewis
Anthony

I could see people making the case for any of the 3.

Haliburton has the defense which makes him more of a 2 way player. But Lewis has both the explosion and shooting potential to be pretty good. His passing is ok. But he is a threat to score big time in a lot of different areas on the floor.

[3toheadmelo]

haliburton is not a better playmaker than Hayes.

Haliburton is good with what he's good at. He has no mid range game and a many of jump passes that he gets away with college he will not be able to do in the pros.

He is a great transition player, great C&S shoot player. I would not call him a great playmaker. He doesn't get into the paint or beat his main of the dribble how exactly will he be playmaking at that high of a level?

Frank had a higher PPP (points per possession) in the P&R than Haliburton but Haliburton is some great playmaker and frank is not good?

Meet Lonzo Ball.

Watch on YouTube

i mean I wouldn't call him a "great" playmaker. He's a good ball mover and very good transition passer I will give him that. He is no Jason Kidd level playmaker. Lonzo is amazing in transition. But was in the 12th percentile in P&R. So he isn't a great half court playmaker at all.

Also I mean you and I could avg 7 assists passing to Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson That is no knock on Lonzo as a player but he was avg 5 assists per game the first few months of the year. Then when Zion came back he started avg 8-9 assists per game.

Lonzo was actually hurt the first few months of the year. And I think we can all agree that Lonzo is a significantly better playmaker than Frank. That's why Lonzo went #2 and looks like the long term PG for the Pelicans while Frank went #9 in the same draft and the Knicks are still looking for a point guard.

Haiburton played with bums on his NCAA team and even had a game with as much as 17 assists. Ja Morant played with bums last year and averaged a double double. I dont wanna hear the excuse that Lonzo is only getting more assists cause of Zion ::
Lonzo even averaged 7.2 assists his rookie year with bums. Frank played next to an all star KP but couldn't even crack 4 assists per game

[3toheadmelo]

Wake me up when Frank can hit a 3 and make a pass that isnt basic

[robillionaire]

I got highlights of passes too

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I was at that Kings game sitting on that side of the court on that KP lob. The Knicks dominated. I actually thought for a second we were finally about to be average instead of bad. Oh well

[mpharris36]

Meet Lonzo Ball.

Watch on YouTube

i mean I wouldn't call him a "great" playmaker. He's a good ball mover and very good transition passer I will give him that. He is no Jason Kidd level playmaker. Lonzo is amazing in transition. But was in the 12th percentile in P&R. So he isn't a great half court playmaker at all.

Also I mean you and I could avg 7 assists passing to Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson That is no knock on Lonzo as a player but he was avg 5 assists per game the first few months of the year. Then when Zion came back he started avg 8-9 assists per game.

Lonzo was actually hurt the first few months of the year. And I think we can all agree that Lonzo is a significantly better playmaker than Frank. That's why Lonzo went #2 and looks like the long term PG for the Pelicans while Frank went #9 in the same draft and the Knicks are still looking for a point guard.

Haiburton played with bums on his NCAA team and even had a game with as much as 17 assists. Ja Morant played with bums last year and averaged a double double. I dont wanna hear the excuse that Lonzo is only getting more assists cause of Zion ::
Lonzo even averaged 7.2 assists his rookie year with bums. Frank played next to an all star KP but couldn't even crack 4 assists per game

Lonzo is a better playmaker than Frank. I have no issues with you make that statement. I do think you putting Haliburton at that level is a bit of a reach. At high end level if everything check out maybe but that is the highest end there. Remember Lonzo was the 2nd pick in a much better draft class. Haliburton is mostly considered the 3-4 best PG in a much weaker higher end class.

[mpharris36]

Wake me up when Frank can hit a 3 and make a pass that isnt basic

ive never argued the 3 point shot and haven't even argued that haliburton isn't a better player (because he is). The playmaking I have serious questions about at the next level if he doesn't play next to a multiple guys who can create as well.

That wasn't the original bases of the argument. Frank does a lot of the same things Haliburton does outside of knocking down outside shots. Its also lofty to believe Haliburton will be +40% 3 point shooter especially with zero off the ball shooting in his game.

Its either you want him a playmaker where his % go down. Or you want him sitting in the corner making C&S threes..but in that scenario he aint playmaking.

[3toheadmelo]

i mean I wouldn't call him a "great" playmaker. He's a good ball mover and very good transition passer I will give him that. He is no Jason Kidd level playmaker. Lonzo is amazing in transition. But was in the 12th percentile in P&R. So he isn't a great half court playmaker at all.

Also I mean you and I could avg 7 assists passing to Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson That is no knock on Lonzo as a player but he was avg 5 assists per game the first few months of the year. Then when Zion came back he started avg 8-9 assists per game.

Lonzo was actually hurt the first few months of the year. And I think we can all agree that Lonzo is a significantly better playmaker than Frank. That's why Lonzo went #2 and looks like the long term PG for the Pelicans while Frank went #9 in the same draft and the Knicks are still looking for a point guard.

Haiburton played with bums on his NCAA team and even had a game with as much as 17 assists. Ja Morant played with bums last year and averaged a double double. I dont wanna hear the excuse that Lonzo is only getting more assists cause of Zion ::
Lonzo even averaged 7.2 assists his rookie year with bums. Frank played next to an all star KP but couldn't even crack 4 assists per game

Lonzo is a better playmaker than Frank. I have no issues with you make that statement. I do think you putting Haliburton at that level is a bit of a reach. At high end level if everything check out maybe but that is the highest end there. Remember Lonzo was the 2nd pick in a much better draft class. Haliburton is mostly considered the 3-4 best PG in a much weaker higher end class.

It’s really not a reach. He is compared to Lonzo the most (he even says that himself in an interview) by a good majority of people. This frank ntilikina comparison is made by few Knicks fans because it makes no sense

[mpharris36]

Lonzo was actually hurt the first few months of the year. And I think we can all agree that Lonzo is a significantly better playmaker than Frank. That's why Lonzo went #2 and looks like the long term PG for the Pelicans while Frank went #9 in the same draft and the Knicks are still looking for a point guard.

Haiburton played with bums on his NCAA team and even had a game with as much as 17 assists. Ja Morant played with bums last year and averaged a double double. I dont wanna hear the excuse that Lonzo is only getting more assists cause of Zion ::
Lonzo even averaged 7.2 assists his rookie year with bums. Frank played next to an all star KP but couldn't even crack 4 assists per game

Lonzo is a better playmaker than Frank. I have no issues with you make that statement. I do think you putting Haliburton at that level is a bit of a reach. At high end level if everything check out maybe but that is the highest end there. Remember Lonzo was the 2nd pick in a much better draft class. Haliburton is mostly considered the 3-4 best PG in a much weaker higher end class.

It’s really not a reach. He is compared to Lonzo the most (he even says that himself in an interview) by a good majority of people. This frank ntilikina comparison is made by few Knicks fans because it makes no sense

And OO compares himself to Bam...that doesn't mean he's Bam in your eyes...

[mpharris36]

also this argument is futile I said I would pick in the top 10

Just because I wouldn't pick him in the top 5 that creates this much back and forth?

[3toheadmelo]

Lonzo is a better playmaker than Frank. I have no issues with you make that statement. I do think you putting Haliburton at that level is a bit of a reach. At high end level if everything check out maybe but that is the highest end there. Remember Lonzo was the 2nd pick in a much better draft class. Haliburton is mostly considered the 3-4 best PG in a much weaker higher end class.

It’s really not a reach. He is compared to Lonzo the most (he even says that himself in an interview) by a good majority of people. This frank ntilikina comparison is made by few Knicks fans because it makes no sense

And OO compares himself to Bam...that doesn't mean he's Bam in your eyes...

My comparison is more logical though. Haliburton and Lonzo both have the same playing styles. I even showed you a video and if you compare that to the clips I posted, they’re nearly identical. And their stats are extremely similar.

The Bam and Onyeka comparisons doesn’t t really make sense because Bam is a point center and Onyeka doesn’t have any guard skills. Onyeka only gets the Bam comparisons cause he has a similar physical profile and is a versatile defender. But without the guard skills, the comparison is meaningless and it just makes him as a more mobile Wendel Carter Jr which is a much different player than Bam. And before you say “but bam didn’t show guard skills that in UK”, I already told you why a couple of times. What Bam is doing now isn’t surprising at all if you followed him since high school, just like DSJ said.

[god shammgod]

it doesn't matter much if he's a slightly better passer than frank because he's gonna play off ball while someone else who is a threat to attack will have the ball in his hands.

[mpharris36]

it doesn't matter much if he's a slightly better passer than frank because he's gonna play off ball while someone else who is a threat to attack will have the ball in his hands.

and I even like him more than you do, but dude isn't going to be that level playmaker at the next level. That wouldn't even be using him to his strengths when he is such a weapon off ball.

[3toheadmelo]

also this argument is futile I said I would pick in the top 10

Just because I wouldn't pick him in the top 5 that creates this much back and forth?

If you look back in the thread, It was you that started the back and forth. Me and Deez were saying how he's a much better playmaker than Frank and you came in here trying to defend Frank as usual lol

[mpharris36]

It’s really not a reach. He is compared to Lonzo the most (he even says that himself in an interview) by a good majority of people. This frank ntilikina comparison is made by few Knicks fans because it makes no sense

And OO compares himself to Bam...that doesn't mean he's Bam in your eyes...

My comparison is more logical though. Haliburton and Lonzo both have the same playing styles. I even showed you a video and if you compare that to the clips I posted, they’re nearly identical. And their stats are extremely similar.

The Bam and Onyeka comparisons doesn’t t really make sense because Bam is a point center and Onyeka doesn’t have any guard skills. Onyeka only gets the Bam comparisons cause he has a similar physical profile and is a versatile defender. But without the guard skills, the comparison is meaningless and it just makes him as a more mobile Wendel Carter Jr which is a much different player than Bam. And before you say “but bam didn’t show guard skills that in UK”, I already told you why a couple of times. What Bam is doing now isn’t surprising at all if you followed him since high school, just like DSJ said.

im not talking about your comparison I'm talking about you using haliburton saying who he compares himself too which doesn't mean anything to me.

[Buttah304]

It’s fair to compare Frank and Halliburton when it comes to defense and wingspan. But after watching multiple games of Halliburton this season there is no way Frank compares to him from a vision perspective. I’m not saying Tyrese is other worldly better but from the eye test he’s a clear cut level above as a floor general. Franks #1 play on offense over the last three seasons has been to dribble the ball past half court and immediately dump it to another player. Of course I have seen Frank drop some dimes in his Knick career (it’s in those moments where I ask myself why can’t he do that more often). But he just doesn’t see the floor like Tyrese does.

[mpharris36]

also this argument is futile I said I would pick in the top 10

Just because I wouldn't pick him in the top 5 that creates this much back and forth?

If you look back in the thread, It was you that started the back and forth. Me and Deez were saying how he's a much better playmaker than Frank and you came in here trying to defend Frank as usual lol

no my argument is is simple. Is Haliburton who is a better shooter than Frank worthy of passing on a guy like Deni or even for your sake Obi...when we have someone that at least does "similar" things.

Its the same argument I would have if we were on the clock at #5 and OO was on the board. I see him as a top 5 talent but for the knicks we already have Mitch. Would the pick make sense for us?

[mpharris36]

It’s fair to compare Frank and Halliburton when it comes to defense and wingspan. But after watching multiple games of Halliburton this season there is no way Frank compares to him from a vision perspective. I’m not saying Tyrese is other worldly better but from the eye test he’s a clear cut level above as a floor general. Franks #1 play on offense over the last three seasons has been to dribble the ball past half court and immediately dump it to another player. Of course I have seen Frank drop some dimes in his Knick career (it’s in those moments where I ask myself why can’t he do that more often). But he just doesn’t see the floor like Tyrese does.

where do you rank him on your big board? who whould you pick over tyrese?

[3toheadmelo]

also this argument is futile I said I would pick in the top 10

Just because I wouldn't pick him in the top 5 that creates this much back and forth?

If you look back in the thread, It was you that started the back and forth. Me and Deez were saying how he's a much better playmaker than Frank and you came in here trying to defend Frank as usual lol

no my argument is is simple. Is Haliburton who is a better shooter than Frank worthy of passing on a guy like Deni or even for your sake Obi...when we have someone that at least does "similar" things.

But the topic of the convo has nothing to do about taking Haliburton over Deni and Obi. The whole back and forth is when you came at us for saying he's a much better playmaker than Frank lol

I'm also still voting for Obi btw

[Buttah304]

Is anyone else concerned about Halliburton’s release at the next level? Dude was a sniper of a 3 point shooter but his mechanics are interesting. Anybody have pause about that at the next level?