Around the NBA - Randle >>>> Harden etc

[robillionaire]

People were supporting the pick on the basis that they thought Randle would be traded or benched and he would start on day 1, yes. Turns out Randle is now playing like a borderline all-star. All things considered this is a positive development for us and a good problem to have so it's hard to be too upset about it. Toppin will get his opportunities, I'm fine seeing what we have in Randle whether it's longer term or getting value for him in a trade.

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

this. all of this.
And i don't know why some of you think he will get 25-30 minutes or some ****. He can play ONE position. that one where our currently best player plays (the league leader in minutes, you know). Thibs wants to win every single game and will ride Randle. He also loves defense and will play Mitch/Noel and Taj at the 5 for 48 minutes.

it just sucks. you need to trade one of Obi or Randle.

Well, if they agree and end up getting a good pick or player back from Randle at the deadline or offseason, it will be much better than having traded him for nothing when his value was low just so we could start Obi. Especially since he's injured and can't play anyway.

[DOT]

this is going to be so good when TWENTY THREE YEAR OLD Obi balls on some of you

Can't wait for him to do so

Will still be a stupid pick when he does.

[knickstape4ever]

this is going to be so good when TWENTY THREE YEAR OLD Obi balls on some of you

I'm hoping he does ball out. I wouldn't have drafted him, but I want him to be successful now that we did

+ if he balls out, Randle becomes expendable, and maybe we can get a decent return. who says no? Randle to Portland for Hood/Jones, Kanter (for salary purposes, waive him after the deal), and their 2021 1st?

[Capn'O]

Just let the kid play.

This is all happening because Randle and the team are playing well. Y'all were ready to trade Randle for what was assumed to be the deadweight corpse of Batum before the season started. Frankly the only person who can be complaining that we shouldn't have taken Obi because we had Randle is Melo.

It's still a matter of if Obi looks like he has a role at this level and we really don't know that yet. He's played one game and from all indications we haven't really seen him healthy yet. If we have Obi playing like he deserves a starter role and Randle is playing like an All Star it's a good problem to have. We can make moves from that position.

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

They were looking at Randle deals tho this summer and just didn't find one that they liked. It could have gone the other way if they picked a guard where they traded Randle and then had a logjam at guard. Randle hadn't established himself as a long term piece. Literally nobody thought Randle would play like this. Even Melo. Any time I suggested that Randle had actual value and we shouldn't just look to dump him I got absolutely reamed. Now he's a core piece who we should have drafted around? Frankly, that's ridiculous.

Here's a question: What if we drafted Haliburton but Frank stopped playing scared, got his groin right, and established himself as a clear cut starter??? Should we have not drafted Haliburton because we had Frank??? That's ridiculous. At that point in the lottery, you pick the player you think is best and move forward with that. And frankly, most of the time you'll be wrong.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

this is going to be so good when TWENTY THREE YEAR OLD Obi balls on some of you

It's going to take a Herculean effort for him to be better than Haliburton.

[Reign23]

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

this. all of this.
And i don't know why some of you think he will get 25-30 minutes or some ****. He can play ONE position. that one where our currently best player plays (the league leader in minutes, you know). Thibs wants to win every single game and will ride Randle. He also loves defense and will play Mitch/Noel and Taj at the 5 for 48 minutes.

it just sucks. you need to trade one of Obi or Randle.

Well, if they agree and end up getting a good pick or player back from Randle at the deadline or offseason, it will be much better than having traded him for nothing when his value was low just so we could start Obi. Especially since he's injured and can't play anyway.

if they end up trading randle for a future pick I am not mad. but keeping both just makes no sense and will no help Obis development.

[3toheadmelo]

Just let the kid play.

This is all happening because Randle and the team are playing well. Y'all were ready to trade Randle for what was assumed to be the deadweight corpse of Batum before the season started. Frankly the only person who can be complaining that we shouldn't have taken Obi because we had Randle is Melo.

It's still a matter of if Obi looks like he has a role at this level and we really don't know that yet. He's played one game and from all indications we haven't really seen him healthy yet. If we have Obi playing like he deserves a starter role and Randle is playing like an All Star it's a good problem to have. We can make moves from that position.

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

I hear you. In hindsight, Haliburton was the guy we should’ve picked. But I feel you guys beating a dead horse going on about this every day lol. Maybe the Knicks get a upgrade at PG in the draft or off season. I’m not too worried.

[3toheadmelo]

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

They were looking at Randle deals tho this summer and just didn't find one that they liked. It could have gone the other way if they picked a guard where they traded Randle and then had a logjam at guard. Randle hadn't established himself as a long term piece. Literally nobody thought Randle would play like this. Even Melo. Any time I suggested that Randle had actual value and we shouldn't just look to dump him I got absolutely reamed. Now he's a core piece who we should have drafted around? Frankly, that's ridiculous.

Here's a question: What if we drafted Haliburton but Frank stopped playing scared, got his groin right, and established himself as a clear cut starter??? Should we have not drafted Haliburton because we had Frank??? That's ridiculous. At that point in the lottery, you pick the player you think is best and move forward with that. And frankly, most of the time you'll be wrong.

I thought Randle was gonna be much better under Thibs tbh. I think people slept on his improvements under Miller. But that’s a different convo lol. I agree with everything you said though. If Frank or even DSJ broke out with Haliburton here then we’d have another log jam. It’s hard to predict this stuff.

[Reign23]

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

I hear you. In hindsight, Haliburton was the guy we should’ve picked. But I feel you guys beating a dead horse going on about this every day lol. Maybe the Knicks get a upgrade at PG in the draft or off season. I’m not too worried.

and why do you think this is going to be the year? this sentence is in my head every season since 2005.

[Context]

this is going to be so good when TWENTY THREE YEAR OLD Obi balls on some of you

Can't wait for him to do so

Will still be a stupid pick when he does.

widen your view Dot...This is perfect for us the way things have gone...I would simply cash out on Randle
for value and let Obi start...its a no brainer...even in the best case scenario we are a thread mill- 8th seed (if I want to
entertain those that believe we can be a play-off team)

[3toheadmelo]

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

I hear you. In hindsight, Haliburton was the guy we should’ve picked. But I feel you guys beating a dead horse going on about this every day lol. Maybe the Knicks get a upgrade at PG in the draft or off season. I’m not too worried.

and why do you think this is going to be the year? this sentence is in my head every season since 2005.

I’d be shocked if we didnt. And to be fair the Knicks tried to upgrade the PG position with Frank and DSJ but that obviously didn’t work out.

[DOT]

They were looking at Randle deals tho this summer and just didn't find one that they liked. It could have gone the other way if they picked a guard where they traded Randle and then had a logjam at guard. Randle hadn't established himself as a long term piece. Literally nobody thought Randle would play like this. Even Melo. Any time I suggested that Randle had actual value and we shouldn't just look to dump him I got absolutely reamed. Now he's a core piece who we should have drafted around? Frankly, that's ridiculous.

Here's a question: What if we drafted Haliburton but Frank stopped playing scared, got his groin right, and established himself as a clear cut starter??? Should we have not drafted Haliburton because we had Frank??? That's ridiculous. At that point in the lottery, you pick the player you think is best and move forward with that. And frankly, most of the time you'll be wrong.

The difference in that scenario is, Haliburton is flexible. You can play him next to a variety of different types of players and have him work, while Obi can only play one position

And that goes to my original point. We drafted Obi with the intention of trading Randle, before we actually had a deal done. It's also not about drafting around Randle, it's about having backup plans, which I don't think we do. I think we have one plan, then if something goes different than expected, we don't know what to do

We drafted Obi on the premise that we would trade Randle. Now, we need to trade one of them because even if Obi is good, he's the 3rd big, which isn't gonna help us win many games right now. Or we can keep both and have Obi develop for two years, at which point he will be the same age Randle was when he signed with us

Which is why I keep saying, I don't think Obi is a bad player, and he gets the 3 year rule (see: Siakam, Pascal for a 22 year old rookie who wasn't really good until he was 25), but it was a stupid pick to make at the time, and will be until we trade Randle.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

Randle & Mitch for was 2021 pick unprotected and Ian mahimi!!!!!!!!

You need to chill for a bit bruh

[DOT]

I hear you. In hindsight, Haliburton was the guy we should’ve picked. But I feel you guys beating a dead horse going on about this every day lol. Maybe the Knicks get a upgrade at PG in the draft or off season. I’m not too worried.

Yeah, probably

Guess I'm just bored lol.

[robillionaire]

I hear you. In hindsight, Haliburton was the guy we should’ve picked. But I feel you guys beating a dead horse going on about this every day lol. Maybe the Knicks get a upgrade at PG in the draft or off season. I’m not too worried.

and why do you think this is going to be the year? this sentence is in my head every season since 2005.

I’d be shocked if we didnt. And to be fair the Knicks tried to upgrade the PG position with Frank and DSJ but that obviously didn’t work out.

Who will it be? We won't draft anybody that can upgrade the position, there aren't that many PGs in the draft anyway and Thibs probably wouldn't start a rookie PG, it isn't coming from free agency because I see no marquee free agent PGs, and I don't know of any on the trading block either. Better hope Quickley emerges as a starting PG.

We might even get year 3 Payton

Actually I forgot we got Rivers for 3 years if we want him, that might be our guy for a while

[ScienceOfLosing]

It's a good thing we invested a top 10 pick in a 23 year old who will only be able to play 15 effective minutes per game because you can't play him next to Randle for the next at least 2 years, rather than a 20 year old who could be playing upwards of 30 mpg because he fits on a good team?

It's not a good problem to have, it's a stupid problem to have. One completely made by our own ineptitude in scouting, cause unless Obi is a star from day 1, then there was literally no reason to draft him over someone like Haliburton

If he's good, our only options are still either trade Randle or trade Obi. Keeping both of them on the roster through next year is ridiculous, but it's what we're gonna do. Painting ourselves into a corner is the thing we do best, after all.

We don't know that yet. I get why you are assuming it, I did before the season too, but our Julius at the 5 looks have been surprisingly effective for stretches...so I expect Thibs to try subbing Obi in for Mitch next to Julius for 5-10 minutes; as well as the minutes that Julius is on the bench for.

Until it becomes a problem, I wouldn't leap to assuming that a Julius, Mitch & Obi big man rotation won't work while Toppin develops.

We drafted a 23 year old at 8 who needs time to develop

Fantastic.

The pick just doesn't make sense. I get that a even a 23 year old can improve, but you can't develop NBA level lateral movement, which is what you need to defend along the perimeter. And though Obi is long, he is a bit undersized to play defense at the rim - time will tell here.

I do think he will be fine as a shooter but if we wanted a shooter, I would have gone with Deni or Vassell - both of which play better defense than him. I will say Obi see's the floor GREAT but again, does that overcome his negatives? I don't thinks so, but I hope so.

How they passed on Haliburton just boggles the mind. And taking a 23 year old with HUGE holes in his game over a better overall play in Deni is also questionable.

My user name

[Reign23]

and why do you think this is going to be the year? this sentence is in my head every season since 2005.

I’d be shocked if we didnt. And to be fair the Knicks tried to upgrade the PG position with Frank and DSJ but that obviously didn’t work out.

Who will it be? We won't draft anybody that can upgrade the position, there aren't that many PGs in the draft anyway and Thibs probably wouldn't start a rookie PG, it isn't coming from free agency because I see no marquee free agent PGs, and I don't know of any on the trading block either. Better hope Quickley emerges as a starting PG.

We might even get year 3 Payton

he has to, if its a top 3 pick. and that said I would trade anyone on the roster plus our pick plus future firsts for Suggs/Cade.
I said that in the draft thread already. If we don't get one of them, Payton is the starting PG next season.

[ScienceOfLosing]

I’m not even mad. Obi can easily be the Pelicans version of Randle off the bench (or Montrezl Harrell). Or let’s say Obi somehow outplays current Randle, then we can easily trade Randle for great value. It’s not the end of the world. We’re in a decent position either way.

The issue will always be, even if he is that good, we don't need more frontcourt talent, and our biggest weakness is lack of shooting in the backcourt

We kinda put ourselves in a position where we need to trade one of him or Randle for a guard, when we could've just drafted one in the first place

I'm just sick of us making moves that are either to fix a previous mistake, or by assuming something will happen that hasn't yet. I don't even think Obi's that bad, I just think it's stupid that we drafted him because we need to make subsequent moves to make it work around him.

I hear you. In hindsight, Haliburton was the guy we should’ve picked. But I feel you guys beating a dead horse going on about this every day lol. Maybe the Knicks get a upgrade at PG in the draft or off season. I’m not too worried.

The reason for beating a dead horse is because we've been searching for a pg for YEARS and they keep passing them for question marks. It is a guards league and they take an old 4 with big holes in his game. (Though I like the guy as a person and think he has a very high BBIQ.)

[3toheadmelo]

I’d be shocked if we didnt. And to be fair the Knicks tried to upgrade the PG position with Frank and DSJ but that obviously didn’t work out.

Who will it be? We won't draft anybody that can upgrade the position, there aren't that many PGs in the draft anyway and Thibs probably wouldn't start a rookie PG, it isn't coming from free agency because I see no marquee free agent PGs, and I don't know of any on the trading block either. Better hope Quickley emerges as a starting PG.

We might even get year 3 Payton

he has to, if its a top 3 pick. and that said I would trade anyone on the roster plus our pick plus future firsts for Suggs/Cade.
I said that in the draft thread already. If we don't get one of them, Payton is the starting PG next season.

Daishen Nix. David Johnson. There’s other guards out there in the draft.

[Context]

you guys are too stuck on age- age is just a number-its about the individual...if you continue to believe age is an issue -you will make it a handicap in life...Obi has proven throughout his journey that he puts in that work and he IMPROVES and gets BETTER!