Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[Jalen Bluntson]

2nd to 5th overall picks

20 -- Wiseman, Ball, Williams, Okoro
19 -- Morant, Barrett, Hunter, Garland
18 -- Bagley, Doncic, Jackson Jr., Young
17 -- Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox
16 -- Ingram, Brown, Bender, Dunn
15 -- Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, Hezonja
14 -- Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum
13 -- Oladipo, Porter, Zeller, Lex
12 -- Kidd Gilchrist, Beal, Waiters, T. Robinson
11 -- Williams, Kanter, Thompson, Valanciunas
10 -- Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins
09 -- Thabeet, Harden, Evans, Rubio
08 -- Beasley, Mayo, Westbrook, Love
07 -- Durant, Horford, Conley Jr., Green
06 -- Aldridge, Morrison, Thomas, Williams
05 -- Williams, Williams, Paul, Felton
04 -- Okafor, Gordon, Livingston, Harris
03 -- Milicic, Anthony, Bosh, Wade
02 -- Williams, Dunleavy, Gooden, Tskitishvili
01 -- Chandler, Gasol, Curry, Richardson
00 -- Swift, Miles, Fizer, Miller
99 -- Francis, Davis, Odom, Bender
98 -- Bibby, LaFrentz, Jamison, Carter

Even going to five ... who are the franchise changers that led their teams to championships ... Wade and Durant. Bosh got titles teaming up.

So now that we've looked at the top 5 ... is tanking really that franchise changing?

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So several teams make terrible picks. Not surprised. The draft is all about scouting with some luck involved. Having the top pick means you can pick ANYONE before anyone else can.

I am not about the tank anymore because we never do it the right way anyway so...whatever. It still doesn't mean the top pick or at least a top 5 pick isn't better than picking 8-9 or beyond. It also doesn't guarantee anything if you do but...odds are better and you have no worries someone else picks your guy.

As for this team...if they learn to build a better more balanced roster some day...beyond draft picks...then we can be excited. Jury still out on that one.

I agree with the find the best talent idea. But overstating the draft is the way to do it is what I take issue with. Don't give away proven talent for potentially provable talent.

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Yeah....I am not for trading Randle to tank for someone...who may or may not be as good or better. I would have gutted the trash from last regime...like Perry did originally. Then I would have used cap space to take on bad deals for picks. Give a few reclamation projects(Perry did this too) a look if they are young...and run with majority youth roster with maybe 3 vets. A guard a wing and a forward vet who really won't get all of the minutes. The team did not do the latter and they didn't use cap for picks either. Commit to develooi g whatever youth we have after getting a GOOD look at them ALL.

I am ok with lost of the things happening but...Payton/Bullock/Rivers need to go. Frank/Knox need minutes. Obi needs more. I doubt most of that happens. Oh well.

Tank naturally...not intentionally. Then when you hit on a few picks...and nail a star with at least one of them...then go FA/trade hunting to build around them. This team skips steps and does shyt backwards constantly!

[prophet_of_rage]

I gave you the list. See you cherrypicked guys that wprked out. I gave you the top 5 each year for 22 years. You see how.many failures there are ... and how few champions there are.

So you want to gp into the draft to get the chance at getting a guy who may end up as good as Randle is now.

You've shown me 19 guys picked in the top 5 who made it. That's 19 out of the 110 top 5 I showed you.

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The only team the last 30 years to win a title without a lottery pick in their starting 5 are the Raptors, and they got the player that helped them do it by trading two former lottery picks.


Title teams are littered with high picks, the Raptors are the only exception to that rule. You draft in the lottery and you get franchise players more often than you do anywhere else. You draft in the top 5 and you are more likely to draft a HOFer than anywhere else, this isn't rocket science.

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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[FutureKnicksGM]

No one saw this coming. Melo would even admit that. I liked Julius when we got him....hated him last year. Expected more of the same this year. Low IQ spin cycle was his forte all year.

This season is definitely an eye opener. Could he be making this leap or is it feasting on a bad team? Looks to be making the leap and I am hopeful it is for real because...we usually trade players who become better elsewhere. This is a pleasant surprise. Keep it up and we pick up the option. Good place to be for a change.

yup. he is NOTHING like he was last year. so it's understandable that a lot of us have been wrong about him so far. he gave us no reason to believe he'd play like this.


i do want to see this be consistent throughout the year, though. he has, at times, reverted back to '19-20 randle and spinning all over the place when he shouldn't.

Lol.

Nothing like last year, in capitals no less.

Then literally say in the next paragraph you see him looking like he was last year at year times.

Last years Randle was in no universe as bad a player he was made out be by the majority of posters here.

[Jalen Bluntson]

No one saw this coming. Melo would even admit that. I liked Julius when we got him....hated him last year. Expected more of the same this year. Low IQ spin cycle was his forte all year.

This season is definitely an eye opener. Could he be making this leap or is it feasting on a bad team? Looks to be making the leap and I am hopeful it is for real because...we usually trade players who become better elsewhere. This is a pleasant surprise. Keep it up and we pick up the option. Good place to be for a change.

yup. he is NOTHING like he was last year. so it's understandable that a lot of us have been wrong about him so far. he gave us no reason to believe he'd play like this.


i do want to see this be consistent throughout the year, though. he has, at times, reverted back to '19-20 randle and spinning all over the place when he shouldn't.

Lol.

Nothing like last year, in capitals no less.

Then literally say in the next paragraph you see him looking like he was last year at year times.

Last years Randle was in no universe as bad a player he was made out be by the majority of posters here.

He was low IQ spin cycle ball hog last year. That's pretty much a fact. He may have looked a little better after fiz but...that spin cycle shyt continued into the preseason. Then it stopped but...there were a couple of games where he was back at it this year. Not like last year though. It was difficult to watch. Was he terrible? No. He got his but...it was nothing like this.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Let's see how this post ages by the end of the season.

Probably much better than 99% of this boards Randle 'analysis' from last season.

[FutureKnicksGM]

yup. he is NOTHING like he was last year. so it's understandable that a lot of us have been wrong about him so far. he gave us no reason to believe he'd play like this.


i do want to see this be consistent throughout the year, though. he has, at times, reverted back to '19-20 randle and spinning all over the place when he shouldn't.

Lol.

Nothing like last year, in capitals no less.

Then literally say in the next paragraph you see him looking like he was last year at year times.

Last years Randle was in no universe as bad a player he was made out be by the majority of posters here.

He was low IQ spin cycle ball hog last year. That's pretty much a fact. He may have looked a little better after fiz but...that spin cycle shyt continued into the preseason. Then it stopped but...there were a couple of games where he was back at it this year. Not like last year though. It was difficult to watch. Was he terrible? No. He got his but...it was nothing like this.

Thats pretty much trash when you consider the position on the floor he was last year, in the offensive system we ran (none) and the lineup/spacing we had around him.

If you don't think the conclusion for most posters was that he was terrible, or close to it, you're lying or or have been away from the boards for 1.5 years and fortunately missed out on some 'quality' analysis.

[br7knicks]

yup. he is NOTHING like he was last year. so it's understandable that a lot of us have been wrong about him so far. he gave us no reason to believe he'd play like this.


i do want to see this be consistent throughout the year, though. he has, at times, reverted back to '19-20 randle and spinning all over the place when he shouldn't.

Lol.

Nothing like last year, in capitals no less.

Then literally say in the next paragraph you see him looking like he was last year at year times.

Last years Randle was in no universe as bad a player he was made out be by the majority of posters here.

He was low IQ spin cycle ball hog last year. That's pretty much a fact. He may have looked a little better after fiz but...that spin cycle shyt continued into the preseason. Then it stopped but...there were a couple of games where he was back at it this year. Not like last year though. It was difficult to watch. Was he terrible? No. He got his but...it was nothing like this.

Not sure what my dude didn't get from what I wrote. It's all accurate and what happened. Not sure what he's confused about lol

[3toheadmelo]

It's a long thread cause there's a lot of people saying he's not a cornerstone player and we should trade him, I didn't even need to get on the mic and spit my verse.


I want him gone so that we don't need to make a decision on his contract, you sell high on a player like this when you can and the biggest benefit is so we can start running offense through RJ so he can get reps with spacing. We need to determine what RJ is, whether he's a 1, 2 or 3, we wont know until he's put under the fire.

And come on, I think it’s pretty obvious that RJ is a #2 or #3. Getting rid of Randle would be worse for RJ. Randle is getting him great looks when RJ can’t create. And also, Randle isn’t the problem for RJ’s spacing, considering Randle is shooting 40% from 3. It’s really Payton.

You think this thread is just people praising Randle?




22 pages of praise? COME ON MAN!

And I don't want RJ taking catch and shoot jumpers as much as he does, which he does because Randle is always on the ball. I want RJ on the ball more than he's on it, and that isn't just because of Payton, it's because of Randle. It's pretty obvious RJ is a 2 or 3, yet he has a net rating similar to Randle, which you just used to show why Randle is good, so is Randle a 2 or 3 and not a 1? If he's not a 1, why are we treating him like that? I got you, I win

Randle has been hitting a bunch of catch and shoot shots playing off the ball. RJ also plays PLENTY on the ball. You basically want RJ to ball hog and jack up 50 shots

You keep missing that Randle is our best player by default. That’s why he’s our #1 option. RJ ain’t a #1. Anybody who watches Knicks games would say the same.

[3toheadmelo]

No one saw this coming. Melo would even admit that. I liked Julius when we got him....hated him last year. Expected more of the same this year. Low IQ spin cycle was his forte all year.

This season is definitely an eye opener. Could he be making this leap or is it feasting on a bad team? Looks to be making the leap and I am hopeful it is for real because...we usually trade players who become better elsewhere. This is a pleasant surprise. Keep it up and we pick up the option. Good place to be for a change.

yup. he is NOTHING like he was last year. so it's understandable that a lot of us have been wrong about him so far. he gave us no reason to believe he'd play like this.


i do want to see this be consistent throughout the year, though. he has, at times, reverted back to '19-20 randle and spinning all over the place when he shouldn't.

Lol.

Nothing like last year, in capitals no less.

Then literally say in the next paragraph you see him looking like he was last year at year times.

Last years Randle was in no universe as bad a player he was made out be by the majority of posters here.

Yep he wasn’t even close to being as bad as people said he was. People wanted to cut him from the team or trade him for Batum

[Jalen Bluntson]

Lol.

Nothing like last year, in capitals no less.

Then literally say in the next paragraph you see him looking like he was last year at year times.

Last years Randle was in no universe as bad a player he was made out be by the majority of posters here.

He was low IQ spin cycle ball hog last year. That's pretty much a fact. He may have looked a little better after fiz but...that spin cycle shyt continued into the preseason. Then it stopped but...there were a couple of games where he was back at it this year. Not like last year though. It was difficult to watch. Was he terrible? No. He got his but...it was nothing like this.

Thats pretty much trash when you consider the position on the floor he was last year, in the offensive system we ran (none) and the lineup/spacing we had around him.

If you don't think the conclusion for most posters was that he was terrible, or close to it, you're lying or or have been away from the boards for 1.5 years and fortunately missed out on some 'quality' analysis.

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

[FutureKnicksGM]

I was a huge Randle hater. Also thought he got overpaid so badly his first two years, so him getting underpaid this year is honestly just making up for it. But this version of Randle? I don't know what the definition of a cornerstone player is to everyone, but I feel comfortable keeping him.

The main thing for me is that he's upped his defense and his 3, and he's contributing everything else he usually does. The main question I've always had is, can he play with other stars? In previous years, nah, but this version of Randle can do that. Pair him with Lebron, Steph, Harden, Giannis, etc...as long as he keeps up his 3&D play, he can play with them.

'This' version of Randle only shot 33% in January, for 16 games (a good chunk of the season so far). At a time where he was getting all star buzz, he was shooting less from 3 than Nawlins Randle.

Would 'January' Randle be non-playable with other stars and should have been dumped for trash like last year Randle?

[NewKnicks]

Do you think he's better than Klay Thompson, McGrady or Harden?

Are we talking about Wade or Booker? Wade played a completely different game than the 3 you listed. But yes, I do think Wade was better than those 3. Wade did everything those 3 can do but in one package. He could be a 3 point specialist when needed, he was an incredible finisher, and played better D than all 3. Wade did it all. Oh, and he won a few chips in the process too.

And this is coming from someone that hated that dude. I was never a fan of Miami. But respect for talent is respect for talent without goggles on.

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

[NewKnicks]

Are we talking about Wade or Booker? Wade played a completely different game than the 3 you listed. But yes, I do think Wade was better than those 3. Wade did everything those 3 can do but in one package. He could be a 3 point specialist when needed, he was an incredible finisher, and played better D than all 3. Wade did it all. Oh, and he won a few chips in the process too.

And this is coming from someone that hated that dude. I was never a fan of Miami. But respect for talent is respect for talent without goggles on.

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

And for you to call him a 'D League 3 point player' is a complete joke. He made huge threes in huge games time after time, year after year. He of course is not the 3 point specialists that Harden and Klay are, but that is not Wade's game. He took, and made some of the biggest 3's in the history of the NBA, time and time again.

You really need a lesson in history. I can't believe I'm even having this discussion.

[NewKnicks]

the knicks are a game and a half away from home court in the 1st round right now. it's not a great conference and the record is mediocre but it doesn't matter. you can't expect them to tank at this position, it's not realistic.

Knicks are also 2.5 games from the 4th slot in the lottery.

[NewKnicks]

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

Lavine is having an All-NBA season. He is a star already. Not sure why people on here try to undersell him over and over again, yet talk about Julius like he's the 2nd coming.

[NewKnicks]

The timing sucks... but you have to remember that we’re pretty much winning games cause our youth is developing under Thibs. So how upset can you really be? It is what it is at this point. At least we’re developing players for once. When was the last time you can say that lol

People are always gonna feel the timing sucks. Except for maybe last year. Personally this draft is kind of overrated to me it terms of how deep people are claiming it is with FRANCHISE level talent. I see MAYBE 2 or 3 personally and a lot of very good players maybe all stars but not franchise talents. Is it really worth tanking for the minimal odds at those 2 or 3 players over developing the youth we already have and trying to win games?

there's no can't miss "gonna win all the championships" guy in this draft. those guys are few and far between that you can identify before they're even in the league. there's been two guys like that since the late 90s. duncan and lebron. nobody really was sure about anyone else. the 3rd guy with the most buzz since then was actually zion.

You forgot about Shaq.

[prophet_of_rage]

Are we talking about Wade or Booker? Wade played a completely different game than the 3 you listed. But yes, I do think Wade was better than those 3. Wade did everything those 3 can do but in one package. He could be a 3 point specialist when needed, he was an incredible finisher, and played better D than all 3. Wade did it all. Oh, and he won a few chips in the process too.

And this is coming from someone that hated that dude. I was never a fan of Miami. But respect for talent is respect for talent without goggles on.

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

Agreed. Wade is criminally underappreciated

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[prophet_of_rage]

People are always gonna feel the timing sucks. Except for maybe last year. Personally this draft is kind of overrated to me it terms of how deep people are claiming it is with FRANCHISE level talent. I see MAYBE 2 or 3 personally and a lot of very good players maybe all stars but not franchise talents. Is it really worth tanking for the minimal odds at those 2 or 3 players over developing the youth we already have and trying to win games?

there's no can't miss "gonna win all the championships" guy in this draft. those guys are few and far between that you can identify before they're even in the league. there's been two guys like that since the late 90s. duncan and lebron. nobody really was sure about anyone else. the 3rd guy with the most buzz since then was actually zion.

You forgot about Shaq.

He was before Duncan. But he is on the list. Then Ewing (didn't live up to it) then Magic before that. Then Kareem before that. Wilt before him and Russell before that.

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[NewKnicks]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Why is almost everyone including our players acting like we're really good this year? We're two games under .500. Since when did that become a 'good team'?

We're 2 games under .500. That is a fact. That is not a good team. Not saying we won't become a good team, but we're not right now.

Such low expectations around here..

[god shammgod]

the knicks are a game and a half away from home court in the 1st round right now. it's not a great conference and the record is mediocre but it doesn't matter. you can't expect them to tank at this position, it's not realistic.

Knicks are also 2.5 games from the 4th slot in the lottery.

so you might get that lottery pick you want after all. but unless they fall back there naturally, they're not gonna make plans to get there.