PG: Cavs vs. Knicks: Only 8FGA for KAT?

[DOT]

[thebuzzardman]

Stopping by for my latest serving of fresh bullsh*t

[kNicksGmen]

this is just nuts.

That's on Thibs, KAT and Brunson in that order. Thibs needs to draw up some plays and scenarios where KAT gets shot in his sweet spots, Brunson needs to run those plays and KAT himself needs to be aggressive and demand the ball. I saw too much coasting from KAT against the Cavs. Like he was content to be a spectator. He was brought here to be the star that he is. Even if he takes some forced shots, he needs to shoot them!

I'd give him more pick and pops, post up's and high post where Hartenstein used to operate. KAT is an underrated passer.

I would say it's on Thibs > Brunson/team > KAT. KAT gets some leeway because he naturally doesn't want to step on any toes, and given that it's only his 3rd game with the team, it's on Thibs and his teammates to let him know he is a focal point.

Plays like this should never happen:

Read on Twitter

Hart should've passed that ASAP. The scoring hierarchy on this team needs to be established and fast. You see KAT open, you don't hesitate to get him the ball.

there were several possessions in semi transition that Kat was the trailer - and although he wasn't "open" - he still should have received a pass and from there he can decide to chuck a 28 footer, pump fake and drive, or swing the ball. or initiate a dribble hand off. instead hart or brunson would pound the rock and then do a wing/wing pick. it was almost as if they forgot Kat existed.

in criticism of Kat - he should be calling this out in the huddle or in the moment - ask for the ball. since he's new I understand him being less aggressive, so to me it's on the coach to either instill that mentality into Kat or make sure everyone else knows to look for him.

[sol537]

It's mainly on the coach and on the other players to get the ball to KAT more.

Kat should be involved in more pin down screens (by Hart) where he can pop to the 3pt line like DDV used to and he should also do some hand off plays with Hart or OG where KAT does a give and go at the 3pt line to get some daylight. Lastly, we should involve Kat in more P&R where if a small switches on him, he posts at the free throw line like KP does and just turns and shoots over his smaller defender.

[robillionaire]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

[KnixinSix]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

KAT is the kind of guy that can clearly win you a game when he is on but ALSO clearly lose you a game especially if he is off on the defensive end and/or not being utilized properly. So what does this mean? It means you need a true rim protecting Center that you can either sub in for him when need be OR play him more at the 4 with that Rim protecting Center and have him blitz, hedge and trail just like Finch did.

KAT utilized properly can be a very big asset. But we have to figure out what that means for our team.

[sol537]

Rob, the biggest difference with KAT and Randle, to me, is that KAT isn't a guy who will purposefully mentally bail on a team. Randle often mopes, yells at teammates and coaches, and blames others. That sort of stuff doesn't jive with championship aspirations. It just doesn't. The icing on the cake is KAT's superior shooting efficiency, ability to guard meatier centers, and our player contract control as opposed to Randle being a flight risk. For all those reasons, we raised our ceiling and I understand the trade.

[robillionaire]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

KAT is the kind of guy that can clearly win you a game when he is on but ALSO clearly lose you a game especially if he is off on the defensive end and/or not being utilized properly. So what does this mean? It means you need a true rim protecting Center that you can either sub in for him when need be OR play him more at the 4 with that Rim protecting Center and have him blitz, hedge and trail just like Finch did.

KAT utilized properly can be a very big asset. But we have to figure out what that means for our team.

I think amplifying the issue is that we aren’t even playing a power forward. Mikal and Hart and OG aren’t power forwards no matter who they can check on occasion or how much we want to pretend they are. They’re guards and wings. Precious at the 4(or even 5 it’s positionless basketball) is giving us another big body, rebounder, shot blocker, but maybe still not hurting the offense as bad as a traditional one way rim protector like Mitch. I’d like to give that a go (as well as try what we are doing for a larger sample size) before I give up on playing towns at the 4 with Mitch or Hukporti. For stretches maybe we can try both things

[KnixinSix]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

So much good stuff you said. Payne is kinda a low IQ player. He can either be a somewhat decent positive or big net negative if you don't reel him in. He will need to be set into a less impactful role once the chemistry starts to settle in.

[robillionaire]

Rob, the biggest difference with KAT and Randle, to me, is that KAT isn't a guy who will purposefully mentally bail on a team. Randle often mopes, yells at teammates and coaches, and blames others. That sort of stuff doesn't jive with championship aspirations. It just doesn't. The icing on the cake is KAT's superior shooting efficiency, ability to guard meatier centers, and our player contract control as opposed to Randle being a flight risk. For all those reasons, we raised our ceiling and I understand the trade.

Towns has never shown he’s a super mentally strong individual and he’s been playing in Minnesota not in the garden after the fans start to turn on the team. We don’t know how he’s going to respond to that because it’s still the honeymoon phase but we are 1-2 and it could be coming. Or if he has a poor playoff performance. You don’t know how he’s gonna handle that.

[DaGawd]

Rob, the biggest difference with KAT and Randle, to me, is that KAT isn't a guy who will purposefully mentally bail on a team. Randle often mopes, yells at teammates and coaches, and blames others. That sort of stuff doesn't jive with championship aspirations. It just doesn't. The icing on the cake is KAT's superior shooting efficiency, ability to guard meatier centers, and our player contract control as opposed to Randle being a flight risk. For all those reasons, we raised our ceiling and I understand the trade.

at the end of the day rob’s message was stating none of that really matters if kat is equally liable to be a no show in a big moment. meaning they’re basically the same level of player

[KnixinSix]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

KAT is the kind of guy that can clearly win you a game when he is on but ALSO clearly lose you a game especially if he is off on the defensive end and/or not being utilized properly. So what does this mean? It means you need a true rim protecting Center that you can either sub in for him when need be OR play him more at the 4 with that Rim protecting Center and have him blitz, hedge and trail just like Finch did.

KAT utilized properly can be a very big asset. But we have to figure out what that means for our team.

I think amplifying the issue is that we aren’t even playing a power forward. Mikal and Hart and OG aren’t power forwards no matter who they can check on occasion or how much we want to pretend they are. They’re guards and wings. Precious at the 4(or even 5 it’s positionless basketball) is giving us another big body, rebounder, shot blocker, but maybe still not hurting the offense as bad as a traditional one way rim protector like Mitch. I’d like to give that a go (as well as try what we are doing for a larger sample size) before I give up on playing towns at the 4 with Mitch or Hukporti. For stretches maybe we can try both things

I agree with you . I think right now Thibs is figuring out within HIS system and with one of the best big man coaches in the game from Detroit, IF KAT can be a guy who plays 5 for significant minutes. This might take 10 more games or so to figure out. But if it continues to bomb he will probably come to the same conclusion that Finch did. We have to use KAT at the 5 only in spots but not the overwhelming majority of the time.

[sol537]

Rob, the biggest difference with KAT and Randle, to me, is that KAT isn't a guy who will purposefully mentally bail on a team. Randle often mopes, yells at teammates and coaches, and blames others. That sort of stuff doesn't jive with championship aspirations. It just doesn't. The icing on the cake is KAT's superior shooting efficiency, ability to guard meatier centers, and our player contract control as opposed to Randle being a flight risk. For all those reasons, we raised our ceiling and I understand the trade.

Towns has never shown he’s a super mentally strong individual and he’s been playing in Minnesota not in the garden after the fans start to turn on the team. We don’t know how he’s going to respond to that because it’s still the honeymoon phase but we are 1-2 and it could be coming. Or if he has a poor playoff performance. You don’t know how he’s gonna handle that.

KAT has proved more in the playoffs that Randle so far... that much is undeniable. KAT was trash in the Mavs WCF loss, but Minny doesn't advance without KAT having a good 1st round and 2nd round (against DEN). Two out of three... ain't bad.

[robillionaire]

Rob, the biggest difference with KAT and Randle, to me, is that KAT isn't a guy who will purposefully mentally bail on a team. Randle often mopes, yells at teammates and coaches, and blames others. That sort of stuff doesn't jive with championship aspirations. It just doesn't. The icing on the cake is KAT's superior shooting efficiency, ability to guard meatier centers, and our player contract control as opposed to Randle being a flight risk. For all those reasons, we raised our ceiling and I understand the trade.

at the end of the day rob’s message was stating non of that really matters if toys is equally liable to be a no show in a big moment. meaning they’re basically the same level of player

I think they’re a similar level of player but Towns gives you more upside if you can make it work with him at the 5 and be able to play 5 out which Randle does not have the size to do as he’s exclusively a PF. But if we ultimately give up on that and resign to playing him at the 4 with Mitch I’m not sure if we’ve really made much of an upgrade there especially with sending Donte. On the other hand the Timberwolves did have success with him and Gobert and we could still go 5 out in certain situations. If he doesn’t succeed at the 5 and can’t be played there anymore it really puts a damper on the trade and reduces the upside of it

[Chanel Bomber]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

As you said, they share a lot of similarities in terms of their defense and their performance in big moments.

As you alluded to, one key difference is how they score the ball. KAT is a floor spacer and elite 3-point shooter with a post-up game. Randle is primarily an isolation scorer and a secondary playmaker.

And I think this compounds the other big difference, which is that they evoke very different things. Which is why - I believe - there is this inconsistency in how they are perceived that you pointed out.

My guess is Randle appeals more to those who attribute more value to physical strength and intimidation in basketball. Randle for as fragile as he is mentally is not someone other players mess with. KAT appeals more to those who value things like efficiency and floor spacing more, and who value skill over perceptions (or realities) of strength and weakness.

[robillionaire]

I’ve been not saying this for a while since I like Towns and hate for him to get the same treatment Randle did but since we are on the topic KAT and Randle are virtually the same type of player. If you didn’t like Randle(and Knicks fans seemed to viciously hate him) I don’t really get how you can pretend to like Towns. He sucks on defense and has often struggled or disappeared in big moments. Are you aware he got benched for nearly an entire 4th quarter in the WCF this year? Whatever criticism you have Randle is likely also going to apply to him. However if you liked Randle, you should maybe also like Towns. It seems logically inconsistent to me. Sure they do have some differences as far as positional versatility and shooting percentage potential ability to play 5 out and things like that. but at the end of the day they are both peak 25 10 5 caliber bigs with defensive issues who are gonna occasionally take a play off to stay out of foul trouble that people can throw up and scream at social media, and perhaps struggle in a big moment but still put up good numbers and possibly make an all star team or drop a 50 burger. And I do think with the right cast of players around them can succeed. So that’s just my opinion and I like them both.

people are deeply invested in their years long personal message board agenda or beef with another poster from one side or the other to even get honest about talking about the team. I joke around about it from time to time but come on. Randle was never a bad player like this fandom tried so hard for years to wish to believe. It’s ok to admit he’s a very talented all star caliber player despite some well known flaws and maybe not the guy getting you across the finish line to a ring. To say that towns is Andrea Bargnani is not trying to have a serious basketball discussion and shouldn’t expect anything serious in return either. I don’t expect someone to seriously engage with me calling Bridges Mikal Kidd Gilchrist

I still think long term the trade was the right thing to do and that Towns will remain a more valuable player over time due to his shooting and maybe we sold high on Donte but we definitely have some bugs to work out.

Towns isn’t our biggest concern, although they need to work him into the offense more. Bridges is playing a lot better so that’s a relief. But there’s still a lack of cohesion and the bench is looking rough. Sims and Hukporti getting minutes is not going to be a good sign, we desperately need Precious or Mitch back to shore things up

Payne is a chucker, I don’t like the way he shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock but I guess that’s his game and we are short on options. I would not cut him, what else are we gonna do? We can’t give big minutes to rookies and tell me are serious about the championship this year

If 2 or 3 posters would just ignore list each other this would be a better place for everyone. I do this and I have a better time

As you said, they share a lot of similarities in terms of their defense and their performance in big moments.

As you alluded to, one key difference is how they score the ball. KAT is a floor spacer and elite 3-point shooter with a post-up game. Randle is primarily an isolation scorer and a secondary playmaker.

And I think this compounds the other big difference, which is that they evoke very different things. Which is why - I believe - there is this inconsistency in how they are perceived that you pointed out.

My guess is Randle appeals more to those who attribute more value to physical strength and intimidation in basketball. Randle for as fragile as he is mentally is not someone other players mess with. KAT appeals more to those who value things like efficiency and floor spacing more, and who value skill over perceptions (or realities) of strength and weakness.

Pretty much. I mean I’ve pointed out the major advantages I think towns has which is why I still support the trade

But still painful to watch him try a move to the basket and yell out oh my god in a weak way without fondly reminiscing on Randle physically bulldozing over dudes. So I get people who are skeptical as well. But I think it will work out

[KnixinSix]

Rob, the biggest difference with KAT and Randle, to me, is that KAT isn't a guy who will purposefully mentally bail on a team. Randle often mopes, yells at teammates and coaches, and blames others. That sort of stuff doesn't jive with championship aspirations. It just doesn't. The icing on the cake is KAT's superior shooting efficiency, ability to guard meatier centers, and our player contract control as opposed to Randle being a flight risk. For all those reasons, we raised our ceiling and I understand the trade.

Towns has never shown he’s a super mentally strong individual and he’s been playing in Minnesota not in the garden after the fans start to turn on the team. We don’t know how he’s going to respond to that because it’s still the honeymoon phase but we are 1-2 and it could be coming. Or if he has a poor playoff performance. You don’t know how he’s gonna handle that.

Towns and Randle are both clearly flawed stars. Thibs learned JR's strengths and weaknesses and adjusted. Towns is not quite the same player he had when he was younger. He has to figure him out again in this system. However I think he isnt going to give him more than 1/4 of the season at 5 if it bombs too much

If Hukporti is the real deal that could be a huge x factor for us

[robillionaire]

If things don’t go well, Towns is going to be the guy getting booed

It won’t be Brunson, obviously
It won’t be Brunson’s friends Mikal or Hart, or OG, as they are hustle defense guys Knicks fans like

Towns is the finesse soft reputation player that the pitchforks will come for. Well him and the coach. When that happens all bets are off

So while it’s actually relieving to me after 5 years of unpopularly defending Randle to now have a fresh start with Towns to root for without much of a hassle from other Knicks fans(I am openly biased towards both players) I just have that sinking feeling it won’t last

Can’t tell you how much it pains me to post that but I do it in the spirit of honest discussion

[Gravy]

All the fans that hated Randle now having to defend Towns from the haters is quite the twist.

[NiceLikeChrist]

People never gonna get over the 2 times in 5 years Randle got loud with his teammates

Act like he’s some roster cancer when all his locker rooms have nothing negative to say. Everyone needs a scapegoat though. I’m just confused why people pick Randle and not thibs