BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[StephNYKurry]

Wanted the trade a month ago

Still happy at the potential he provides us.

Once again, if he stinks, we sit his ass on the pine just like we sat Novak and Camby on the pine.

[mamadontcry]

Answers in bold

Bargs is capable of providing every single "benefit" Novak does on that end, as well as some actual defense. Bargs' issues are with focus. He is not as limited physically as Novak is, and he has even more length.

There really is no disputing that Bargs is a better ballhandler and passer than Novak.

As far as Novak's shooting, he was useless against any team that was capable of making the playoffs. He simply was too easy to defend and a complete liability on the other end.

Bargs has been capable of a lot for awhile now.

However, he's yet to show he can actually focus to do said things. Yeah he has the length to contest better, and he has the quickness to actually stay in front of players, but he's lazy so it doesn't happen.

Bargs was useless against other playoffs teams, too. In fact, I think he had a 0 rebound game in the playoffs . At least Novak managed to come through in a few regular season games where he went against some playoff teams.

Right now, I'd rather take Novak than Bargs because Novak actually focuses, and is a much better shooter. He also isn't a team cancer like Bargs was for Toronto.

What do you mean ?

[johnnywishbone]

And chronically complaining about it is going to do what? How about give the ****er a chance to see if a change in scenery and playing on a good team actually will get him to produce?

Look Moo - it's the offseason this is the time to complain about the team direction. When the horn sounds I always root for the team.

But the deal is: the NBA is a big business with lots of money and accolades up for grabs. And some teams have very good organizations that always take a long view and whose decisions are measured. We, on the other hand, are like a tuna that bites at the first shiny thing and can't think further ahead than the next five minutes. Both kinds of organizations make good and bad decisions but in balance the former wins.

Pat Riley is sitting in Miami and he looks at this trade and just laughs. This is our big summer move and it just doesn't bode well for next season and beyond.

That's all.

[Context]

I hate this deal because it was obviously a rushed move set up in the last minute. We showed our cards again like we always do. Trades can't become official before July 10th. We could've waited at least that long before deciding on anything, because teams would be signing FA's, making room on their roster, etc. All of the things we gave up in that trade could've been valuable since both Camby's and Novak's contracts are small.

And if we really made the trade because the FO likes Bargnani that much, then I question their job suitability. He's just not a good fit on this team if we're serious about winning in the playoffs.

Kneega please. If you don't want to hear what I'm saying read then read the above. This is exactly how I feel.

You don't agree with that? That's your prerogative but don't say other people are obstinate or have ulterior motives because they don't agree with you.

It has nothing to do with if ur agree with me or not. Acknowledge What Bargs can bring to the table- do it pls...

[JustaKnickFan]

Bargs is capable of providing every single "benefit" Novak does on that end, as well as some actual defense. Bargs' issues are with focus. He is not as limited physically as Novak is, and he has even more length.

There really is no disputing that Bargs is a better ballhandler and passer than Novak.

As far as Novak's shooting, he was useless against any team that was capable of making the playoffs. He simply was too easy to defend and a complete liability on the other end.

Bargs has been capable of a lot for awhile now.

However, he's yet to show he can actually focus to do said things. Yeah he has the length to contest better, and he has the quickness to actually stay in front of players, but he's lazy so it doesn't happen.

Bargs was useless against other playoffs teams, too. In fact, I think he had a 0 rebound game in the playoffs . At least Novak managed to come through in a few regular season games where he went against some playoff teams.

Right now, I'd rather take Novak than Bargs because Novak actually focuses, and is a much better shooter. He also isn't a team cancer like Bargs was for Toronto.

What do you mean ?

Well I mean how he was a huge negative there, and how he became extremely hated and a big distraction.

For instance, calling the team the worst, admitting he was lazy, suggesting a trade, making the team play a lot worse, etc.

[moocow007]

And chronically complaining about it is going to do what? How about give the ****er a chance to see if a change in scenery and playing on a good team actually will get him to produce?

Look Moo - it's the offseason this is the time to complain about the team direction. When the horn sounds I always root for the team.

But the deal is: the NBA is a big business with lots of money and accolades up for grabs. And some teams have very good organizations that always take a long view and whose decisions are measured. We, on the other hand, are like a tuna that bites at the very shiny thing and can't think further ahead than the next five minutes. Both kinds of organizations make good and bad decisions but in balance the former wins.

Pat Riley is sitting in Miami and he looks at this trade and just laughs. This is our big summer move and it just doesn't bode well for next season and beyond.

That's all.

We can still move Chandler and Shumpert in a blockbuster. If you believe rumors supposedly the Knicks had already been unofficially asking around to gauge Chandler's trade value.

Riley would be smart enough to realize that the Knicks have very little assets and that this trade made a team that played his team real well in the regular season at least a little bit better. I doubt he's thinking "lolz, they traded a 2014 2nd round pick and Steve Novak...the Knicks are toast!!!".

[StephNYKurry]

So I guess we know who will be at the center of the board's traffic next year.

Bargnani drops 30 (8 page PG thread)

Bargnani goes 3/12, with 1 rebound, and a loss where he blows a defensive assignment (45 page PG thread)

[johnnywishbone]

It has nothing to do with if ur agree with me or not. Acknowledge What Bargs can bring to the table- do it pls...

To what end? We've gone over his strengths and weaknesses. I just think when you balance the good and the bad you get a negative. And as Thugger has already pointed out many times we switch on defense which is just going to magnify his weaknesses. Which leads me to believe he is not going to play that much.

[johnnywishbone]

We can still move Chandler and Shumpert in a blockbuster. If you believe rumors supposedly the Knicks had already been unofficially asking around to gauge Chandler's trade value.

Riley would be smart enough to realize that the Knicks have very little assets and that this trade made a team that played his team real well in the regular season at least a little bit better. I doubt he's thinking "lolz, they traded a 2014 2nd round pick and Steve Novak...the Knicks are toast!!!".

Point is he is King of the mountain and he is saying come get me. And our move to dethrone him next year is to get Bargnani? A guy you said had a vagina in the other thread?

It's just not good enough. As Howard Beck called it: reeks of desperation. And i have little confidence that the front office is going to be much more help.

So we have to do what we did this year and hope that Melo can be the best player in the league, Stat can get healthy and everybody else plays above their level. And I'm glad to root for those guys because they are a good group. It just sucks that the General has his head up his ass.

[StephNYKurry]

We can still move Chandler and Shumpert in a blockbuster. If you believe rumors supposedly the Knicks had already been unofficially asking around to gauge Chandler's trade value.

Riley would be smart enough to realize that the Knicks have very little assets and that this trade made a team that played his team real well in the regular season at least a little bit better. I doubt he's thinking "lolz, they traded a 2014 2nd round pick and Steve Novak...the Knicks are toast!!!".

Point is he is King of the mountain and he is saying come get me. And our move to dethrone him next year is to get Bargnani? A guy you said had a vagina in the other thread?

It's just not good enough. As Howard Beck called it: reeks of desperation. And i have little confidence that the front office is going to be much more help.

So we have to do what we did this year and hope that Melo can be the best player in the league, Stat can get healthy and everybody else plays above their level. And I'm glad to root for those guys because they are a good group. It just sucks that the General has his head up his ass.

Once again, provide me with alternatives for a similar package.

[johnnywishbone]

We can still move Chandler and Shumpert in a blockbuster. If you believe rumors supposedly the Knicks had already been unofficially asking around to gauge Chandler's trade value.

Riley would be smart enough to realize that the Knicks have very little assets and that this trade made a team that played his team real well in the regular season at least a little bit better. I doubt he's thinking "lolz, they traded a 2014 2nd round pick and Steve Novak...the Knicks are toast!!!".

Point is he is King of the mountain and he is saying come get me. And our move to dethrone him next year is to get Bargnani? A guy you said had a vagina in the other thread?

It's just not good enough. As Howard Beck called it: reeks of desperation. And i have little confidence that the front office is going to be much more help.

So we have to do what we did this year and hope that Melo can be the best player in the league, Stat can get healthy and everybody else plays above their level. And I'm glad to root for those guys because they are a good group. It just sucks that the General has his head up his ass.

Once again, provide me with alternatives for a similar package.

I can sit here and throw out hypotheticals but the answer is I don't know because I'm not Glenn Grunwald and I can't call Gms from around the league to find out. And as Rasho pointed out we didn't even wait until the deadline to announce the deal. So it was obviously a rushed deal and we didn't wait until we knew for fact that this was the best we could do.

But if I owned the Knicks and you came to me with this deal as our Summer move I'd say: You're fired!

In a city that's World renown for it's business acumen we have the gang who can't shoot straight at the controls. #Ironic.

[TrueWarrior]

How is it likely a late first? We're one Carmelo Anthony injury away from being in the lottery ourselves.

And then the Nuggets will just swap with us. Theyd have to suck too for that to even matter. Of course its possible but its just not likely unless we both blew our teams up.

You can continue looking at all the negatives to this deal if you want. Im kind of in the middle which to me makes the most sense since it was a pretty evenly sided trade in my eyes. We clearly won this trade on talent. The 2016 pick remains to be seen but we did help our 2015 cap, so alot depends who we sign that year. Everything has been said a thousand times so lets see just how the ball bounces when the lights go on.

Nah.. I don't need to see the ball bounce or the lights go on man. This one is clear... in that speculative thread you didn't like the idea.. on page one you said "i've slit my wrists".

Y'all are good at arguing... I do it better in person... you guys are clever and witty and I try and fight back... you're rationalizing this trade... each side of the argument can sound good before the day of judgement is here and that's when only one of us can be right.

I didnt like the trade until I found out the first rounder was the one being swapped anyway. Made it a little better.

And you bumping these older posts dont really matter because the trade offers were completely different. Getting him for Novak, Camby, and a swapped pick 3 years from now is different than giving up Amare, Tyson, this years pick, or whatever else.

We all know the negatives of this deal but we know positives too. Seems like a waste of time to me to follow a team just to be able to say I told you so. Nobody cares who is right or wrong. We're all jabbering about millionaires who dont know we exist. Its just funny when you got guys here who disappear when the team is doing well only to return when they lose. Seems like a crappy way to be a fan.

[StephNYKurry]

Point is he is King of the mountain and he is saying come get me. And our move to dethrone him next year is to get Bargnani? A guy you said had a vagina in the other thread?

It's just not good enough. As Howard Beck called it: reeks of desperation. And i have little confidence that the front office is going to be much more help.

So we have to do what we did this year and hope that Melo can be the best player in the league, Stat can get healthy and everybody else plays above their level. And I'm glad to root for those guys because they are a good group. It just sucks that the General has his head up his ass.

Once again, provide me with alternatives for a similar package.

I can sit here and throw out hypotheticals but the answer is I don't know because I'm not Glenn Grunwald and I can't call Gms from around the league to find out. And as Rasho pointed out we didn't even wait until the deadline to announce the deal. So it was obviously a rushed deal and we didn't wait until we knew for fact that this was the best we could do.

But if I owned the Knicks and you came to me with this deal as our Summer move I'd say: You're fired!

In a city that's World renown for it's business acumen we have the gang who can't shoot straight at the controls. #Ironic.

Don't know enough to present viable alternatives...but knows enough to bash the move

Sounds like a Knick fan to me

[johnnywishbone]

Don't know enough to present viable alternatives...but knows enough to bash the move

Sounds like a Knick fan to me

You just don't get it man. It's like the old buddhist teaching. I can keep pouring tea but your cup is full.

Have a nice day.

[mamadontcry]

Bargs has been capable of a lot for awhile now.

However, he's yet to show he can actually focus to do said things. Yeah he has the length to contest better, and he has the quickness to actually stay in front of players, but he's lazy so it doesn't happen.

Bargs was useless against other playoffs teams, too. In fact, I think he had a 0 rebound game in the playoffs . At least Novak managed to come through in a few regular season games where he went against some playoff teams.

Right now, I'd rather take Novak than Bargs because Novak actually focuses, and is a much better shooter. He also isn't a team cancer like Bargs was for Toronto.

What do you mean ?

Well I mean how he was a huge negative there, and how he became extremely hated and a big distraction.

For instance, calling the team the worst, admitting he was lazy, suggesting a trade, making the team play a lot worse, etc.

So far, I never explained that I followed the Raptors fully as a fan for the last 5 years. A devote fan: League broadband usually watching every single match twice, analysing plays (pause rewind play - pause rewind play), watching all interviews, flying to Canada (holidays from downunder), screaming at the pc, cos here espn shows only Lakers,Boston,Chicago,Miami and NEW YORK KNICKS.

Was Bargnani the best option out there ? No
Is he an all rounder player ? No
Can Bargnani talents help Melo in playoffs against Mia Chi Ind Bkn ? Absolutely

If it doesn't work you shop his contract, don't get fooled by fan rants, Andrea was tired to put his face for a Team who was a perennial rebuild. He made 1 single interview last year in which, basically said, "I had enough, I want compete for something, I m not interested on money or stats, we are the worst team in the league at the moment." Well done Andrea, to late.

[TheBargnaniRule]

I don't want to laugh as I have respect for Bargs but;

An Amare and Bargnani frontcourt pairing on D

[kNicksGmen]

I don't want to laugh as I have respect for Bargs but;

An Amare and Bargnani frontcourt pairing on D

amare is actually a decent help defender and shot blocker. he's a bad pick n roll and 1 on 1 defender though. bargs is supposedly good 1 on 1 but bad everywhere else. yes that would be a bad pairing overall though and i hope we don't see it much, if at all.

think about this though,,, we had stat at center and novak at power forward for stretches last year. part of it was because at the time kmart or chandler was hurt though.

bargs/amare frontcourt > amare/novak front court. offensively and defensively.

[johnnywishbone]

I don't want to laugh as I have respect for Bargs but;

An Amare and Bargnani frontcourt pairing on D

amare is actually a decent help defender and shot blocker. he's a bad pick n roll and 1 on 1 defender though. bargs is supposedly good 1 on 1 but bad everywhere else. yes that would be a bad pairing overall though and i hope we don't see it much, if at all.

think about this though,,, we had stat at center and novak at power forward for stretches last year. part of it was because at the time kmart or chandler was hurt though.

bargs/amare frontcourt > amare/novak front court. offensively and defensively.

We never had that front court. We had a Novak/Melo/Stat lineup but never a Novak/Stat one.

Although we did have a Prigioni, Shump, White, Copeland and Novak line up. Got dayum.

[kNicksGmen]

I don't want to laugh as I have respect for Bargs but;

An Amare and Bargnani frontcourt pairing on D

amare is actually a decent help defender and shot blocker. he's a bad pick n roll and 1 on 1 defender though. bargs is supposedly good 1 on 1 but bad everywhere else. yes that would be a bad pairing overall though and i hope we don't see it much, if at all.

think about this though,,, we had stat at center and novak at power forward for stretches last year. part of it was because at the time kmart or chandler was hurt though.

bargs/amare frontcourt > amare/novak front court. offensively and defensively.

We never had that front court. We had a Novak/Melo/Stat lineup but never a Novak/Stat one.

Although we did have a Prigioni, Shump, White, Copeland and Novak line up. Got dayum.

i'm not talking about a starting lineup if you're confused. i went to the clippers game at msg and melo was going off, making tons of 3s.. great atmosphere, but we were trailing pretty much the whole game... melo goes off more in the 3rd and either ties the game or takes the lead. then to start the 4th quarter it was stat at center and novak at power forward. we used this rotation quite a bit so you either misunderstood what i meant or you're flat out wrong. anyways they went on a run and we never recovered. this happened a lot as stat at center with a terrible defender next to him at the 4 is a horrible idea, yet woody did it over and over and over. like i said before to be fair to woody this was around the time our bigs were banged up so we didn't have a lot of other options.

to start the 2nd quarter and 4th quarters of lots of games (when melo and tyson are getting rest) it was novak at the 4 and stat at the 5. i cringed every time as i knew we were about to blow the lead we had gained with our starters.

[johnnywishbone]

i'm not talking about a starting lineup if you're confused. i went to the clippers game at msg and melo was going off, making tons of 3s.. great atmosphere, but we were trailing pretty much the whole game... melo goes off more in the 3rd and either ties the game or takes the lead. then to start the 4th quarter it was stat at center and novak at power forward. we used this rotation quite a bit so you either misunderstood what i meant or you're flat out wrong. anyways they went on a run and we never recovered. this happened a lot as stat at center with a terrible defender next to him at the 4 is a horrible idea, yet woody did it over and over and over. like i said before to be fair to woody this was around the time our bigs were banged up so we didn't have a lot of other options.

to start the 2nd quarter and 4th quarters of lots of games (when melo and tyson are getting rest) it was novak at the 4 and stat at the 5. i cringed every time as i knew we were about to blow the lead we had gained with our starters.

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213NYK2.HTM

When we had Stat it was the starters who kept giving up leads to start games?