Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[mpharris36]

Okafor is playing how many minutes and what role again with Duke? Again, you are arguing with the wrong person. I'm telling what the take I'm reading is on Towns. Assuming the scouts are right...and well...they are getting paid for it right?...the feel is Towns is further away from whatever it is he's going to end up being than Okafor.

im just disagreeing with the premise that if Towns is considered raw because his offensive game has not yet defined. Then OK4 needs to be considered raw because from what all the scouts and people say is his defensive game is not NBA ready.

Just am trying to point out if we are going to get on one we should also get on the other and not specifically talking about you moo.

And I see it is Towns is offensive game is a lot closer to be potent than OK4 defensive game.

[Johnny Hoops]

Not positive but I think it was Chad Ford --- said ---- was at Memphis game the other night and asked 2 scouts to choose between Towns and Okafor. Both chose Towns.

[E-Balla]

What about their defense this year? I remember reading a while ago that their defense was ranked something like 22nd, but that was like back in January...I'm not sure what their defense is ranked right now.

They were never as low as 22nd (outside of maybe the first few weeks when MKG was hurt and Al waa on the bench) and they're currently 8th after being top 5 most of the year.

Just went back and checked, and their defense is ranked 9th, but their offense is ranked 29th! I'm not a fan of their model of team building. They do manage to be OK on defense, but their horrible in pretty much all offensive categories. Their defense was ranked 25th on November 30th, but I guess it was because MKG was out. It scares me that 1 dude may be the reason for a defense to go from top 5 to 25th. I think it's too hard to get a good balance of offense and defense when the perimeter players have to be great at defense to cover up for a weak interior.

Well that's not the reason they suck on offense. They suck on offense because no one can shoot. The only above average offensive player they have is Al and since trading for one shooter (Mo Williams) their offense is a still bad but more respectable 21st.

How their team is built in terms of playstyle isn't bad. They just have no talent. I'm tired of hearing how Okafor won't be easy to build around and people pointing to teams with no talent built around guys half as talented as him.

[Johnny Hoops]

It's called maximizing resources. Yes, of course they can have Towns in a minimal role to start but that isn't maximizing resources IF the plan is to try to win in Anthony's prime...which is only another year or two.

a minimal role starting off on offense doesn't mean a minimal role on defense.

I think some are understating what Towns will do early on in the NBA based on watching how Kentucky is using him which is virtually 100% down in the post.

At the NBA level his game is going to move around more - particularly if he were to play in the triangle. I think you'll see him knocking down some jump shot and also getting by bigger players with the pump-fake and drive. His game is much better suited to catching the ball on the move and then making a move immediately off that. Right now he is just being asked/forced to post up and work over either shoulder. In the NBA he'll also have more room to operate = given the zone rules.

[mpharris36]

It's called maximizing resources. Yes, of course they can have Towns in a minimal role to start but that isn't maximizing resources IF the plan is to try to win in Anthony's prime...which is only another year or two.

a minimal role starting off on offense doesn't mean a minimal role on defense.

I think some are understating what Towns will do early on in the NBA based on watching how Kentucky is using him which is virtually 100% down in the post.

At the NBA level his game is going to move around more - particularly if he were to play in the triangle. I think you'll see him knocking down some jump shot and also getting by bigger players with the pump-fake and drive. His game is much better suited to catching the ball on the move and then making a move immediately off that. Right now he is just being asked/forced to post up and work over either shoulder. In the NBA he'll also have more room to operate = given the zone rules.

agreed I think he will be used more in the Jason Smith/Bargs role what we are seeing now and Towns has the ability to hit that jump shot. I think him playing with Melo in the pick and pop game on the weak side 2 man game will be an effective offense.

[Retired_Doc]

He's 5th on my list after
Okafur
Towns
Russell
Turner
WC Stein

Scrappy dude....will do well in the NBA

if i may quote doc...

[Retired_Doc]

He traded Tyson. Why would he draft WCS?

To replace Tyson with a younger, much more inexpensive model?

[NYKnicksTAPE]

They were never as low as 22nd (outside of maybe the first few weeks when MKG was hurt and Al waa on the bench) and they're currently 8th after being top 5 most of the year.

Just went back and checked, and their defense is ranked 9th, but their offense is ranked 29th! I'm not a fan of their model of team building. They do manage to be OK on defense, but their horrible in pretty much all offensive categories. Their defense was ranked 25th on November 30th, but I guess it was because MKG was out. It scares me that 1 dude may be the reason for a defense to go from top 5 to 25th. I think it's too hard to get a good balance of offense and defense when the perimeter players have to be great at defense to cover up for a weak interior.

Well that's not the reason they suck on offense. They suck on offense because no one can shoot. The only above average offensive player they have is Al and since trading for one shooter (Mo Williams) their offense is a still bad but more respectable 21st.

How their team is built in terms of playstyle isn't bad. They just have no talent. I'm tired of hearing how Okafor won't be easy to build around and people pointing to teams with no talent built around guys half as talented as him.

Well how many guys are out there that the Knicks can realistically get that will simultaneously space the floor while playing above average defense to cover for Okafor if his defense ends up being sub par? I would be happy if the Knicks grabbed either one of Okafor, Towns, or Russell...sh*t, even Mudiay. It's just my belief that the defense will suffer if Okafor is the main rim protector just based off what I see from him. He could easily prove me wrong tho.

[Capn'O]

He traded Tyson. Why would he draft WCS?

To replace Tyson with a younger, much more inexpensive model?

GENIUS!!!

Nah Doc. He's not doing it.

[Retired_Doc]

I would take 5-6 players before WCS....

KAT
Okafor
Mudiay
Russell
Johnson
Myles Turner. I think Turner is just as good defensively but has more offensive upside than WCS.

Compared to WCS, Myles Turner is garbage! When Texas, then ranked 6th in the nation, played Kentucky, WCS had 21 points. Myles Turner: 6. WCS had 12 rebs, THREE blocks and FIVE steals!

Turner had 5 rebs no blocks and no steals. And he fouled out in just 18 min.

Turner will be a decent NBA player, but he's no WCS!

[knicknack]

Okafor is playing how many minutes and what role again with Duke? Again, you are arguing with the wrong person. I'm telling what the take I'm reading is on Towns. Assuming the scouts are right...and well...they are getting paid for it right?...the feel is Towns is further away from whatever it is he's going to end up being than Okafor.

im just disagreeing with the premise that if Towns is considered raw because his offensive game has not yet defined. Then OK4 needs to be considered raw because from what all the scouts and people say is his defensive game is not NBA ready.

Just am trying to point out if we are going to get on one we should also get on the other and not specifically talking about you moo.

And I see it is Towns is offensive game is a lot closer to be potent than OK4 defensive game.

While I am definitely not a fan of OK4R'S defensive efforts, I do believe it will be average at the very least he likes to play without jumping often and just puts his hands up, it's possible his length and large hands will be just enough to stifle most players under the basket........his hustling back on defense and he defense is what really concerns me. I still like all the things Towns can do right now, plus he's a local kid with good upbringing and excellent energy and ethics!

[TrueWarrior]

Not positive but I think it was Chad Ford --- said ---- was at Memphis game the other night and asked 2 scouts to choose between Towns and Okafor. Both chose Towns.

For what its worth NBAdraft.net moved Towns from 4 to 1 on their mock yesterday. Jah from 1 to 3 with Russell at 2. Scouts are seeing the same things many of us are it seems.

[E-Balla]

Just went back and checked, and their defense is ranked 9th, but their offense is ranked 29th! I'm not a fan of their model of team building. They do manage to be OK on defense, but their horrible in pretty much all offensive categories. Their defense was ranked 25th on November 30th, but I guess it was because MKG was out. It scares me that 1 dude may be the reason for a defense to go from top 5 to 25th. I think it's too hard to get a good balance of offense and defense when the perimeter players have to be great at defense to cover up for a weak interior.

Well that's not the reason they suck on offense. They suck on offense because no one can shoot. The only above average offensive player they have is Al and since trading for one shooter (Mo Williams) their offense is a still bad but more respectable 21st.

How their team is built in terms of playstyle isn't bad. They just have no talent. I'm tired of hearing how Okafor won't be easy to build around and people pointing to teams with no talent built around guys half as talented as him.

Well how many guys are out there that the Knicks can realistically get that will simultaneously space the floor while playing above average defense to cover for Okafor if his defense ends up being sub par? I would be happy if the Knicks grabbed either one of Okafor, Towns, or Russell...sh*t, even Mudiay. It's just my belief that the defense will suffer if Okafor is the main rim protector just based off what I see from him. He could easily prove me wrong tho.

First off Towns can end up sub par. He definitely won't be that good as a rookie because rookies are almost never good defensively. Its what makes Nerlens Noel so amazing.

That's why I think building around Towns will take awhile because even a guy seen as a future DPOY by year 3 or 5 like Anthony Davis was a bad defender his rookie year and not great in his second.

Also here's a list of guys that'll fit well with Okafor that are free agents in 2015 and 2016:

LaMarcus Aldridge
Draymond Green
Paul Millsap
Jimmy Butler
Lebron James
Goran Dragic
Wes Matthews
Arron Afflalo
Brandon Wright
Omer Asik (in a backup role and spot big lineups)
Amir Johnson
Wilson Chandler
DeMarre Carroll
Khris Middleton
Pat Bev (we already have a G like Pat Bev in Gallo II)
Mo Williams
K.J. McDaniels (I really want us to get this guy. If you're worried about rim protection he's the 9th best in the league even if his attempts per game is low because he's a G)

Kobe Bryant
Joe Johnson
Kevin Durant
David West
Nic Batum
Al Horford
Gallo I
Thad Young
Luol Deng
Mike Conley
Brandon Jennings
Courtney Lee
Jared Dudley
Meyers Leonard (hope he doesn't breakout before then because he's great - team option)
John Henson (team option)
James Johnson
Terrence Jones
Donatas Motiejunas

Long list ain't it? This is 2015 finding shooters that play defense is easier than finding dominant low post players.

[GONYK]

If Phil took WCS #1 overall, that means that Phil has officially gone senile.

[NOOB77]

I would take 5-6 players before WCS....

KAT
Okafor
Mudiay
Russell
Johnson
Myles Turner. I think Turner is just as good defensively but has more offensive upside than WCS.

Compared to WCS, Myles Turner is garbage! When Texas, then ranked 6th in the nation, played Kentucky, WCS had 21 points. Myles Turner: 6. WCS had 12 rebs, THREE blocks and FIVE steals!

Turner had 5 rebs no blocks and no steals. And he fouled out in just 18 min.

Turner will be a decent NBA player, but he's no WCS!

Yes it is fun to compare the two. One is a freshman one is a junior. One has an NBA team around him and one does not. Turner has more upside than WCS.

[ibraheim718]

Not positive but I think it was Chad Ford --- said ---- was at Memphis game the other night and asked 2 scouts to choose between Towns and Okafor. Both chose Towns.

For what its worth NBAdraft.net moved Towns from 4 to 1 on their mock yesterday. Jah from 1 to 3 with Russell at 2. Scouts are seeing the same things many of us are it seems.

Do you know how many scouts we alone have? Close to 10. Now multiply that by 30 NBA teams. Supposedly 2 scouts chose Towns.. and you word it like it's a referendum. If I might ask are you involved in politics?

[mpharris36]

why can't I like both?

[Tron Carter]

Not positive but I think it was Chad Ford --- said ---- was at Memphis game the other night and asked 2 scouts to choose between Towns and Okafor. Both chose Towns.

For what its worth NBAdraft.net moved Towns from 4 to 1 on their mock yesterday. Jah from 1 to 3 with Russell at 2. Scouts are seeing the same things many of us are it seems.

Do you know how many scouts we alone have? Close to 10. Now multiply that by 30 NBA teams. Supposedly 2 scouts chose Towns.. and you word it like it's a referendum. If I might ask are you involved in politics?

i gotta say man i'm with you on your stance of rim protection being overrated. i think a good example i think is the clippers. jordan gets all the highlight blocks but 6 foot nothing cp3 is their most impactful defensive player.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Well that's not the reason they suck on offense. They suck on offense because no one can shoot. The only above average offensive player they have is Al and since trading for one shooter (Mo Williams) their offense is a still bad but more respectable 21st.

How their team is built in terms of playstyle isn't bad. They just have no talent. I'm tired of hearing how Okafor won't be easy to build around and people pointing to teams with no talent built around guys half as talented as him.

Well how many guys are out there that the Knicks can realistically get that will simultaneously space the floor while playing above average defense to cover for Okafor if his defense ends up being sub par? I would be happy if the Knicks grabbed either one of Okafor, Towns, or Russell...sh*t, even Mudiay. It's just my belief that the defense will suffer if Okafor is the main rim protector just based off what I see from him. He could easily prove me wrong tho.

First off Towns can end up sub par. He definitely won't be that good as a rookie because rookies are almost never good defensively. Its what makes Nerlens Noel so amazing.

That's why I think building around Towns will take awhile because even a guy seen as a future DPOY by year 3 or 5 like Anthony Davis was a bad defender his rookie year and not great in his second.

Also here's a list of guys that'll fit well with Okafor that are free agents in 2015 and 2016:

LaMarcus Aldridge
Draymond Green
Paul Millsap
Jimmy Butler
Lebron James
Goran Dragic
Wes Matthews
Arron Afflalo
Brandon Wright
Omer Asik (in a backup role and spot big lineups)
Amir Johnson
Wilson Chandler
DeMarre Carroll
Khris Middleton
Pat Bev (we already have a G like Pat Bev in Gallo II)
Mo Williams
K.J. McDaniels (I really want us to get this guy. If you're worried about rim protection he's the 9th best in the league even if his attempts per game is low because he's a G)

Kobe Bryant
Joe Johnson
Kevin Durant
David West
Nic Batum
Al Horford
Gallo I
Thad Young
Luol Deng
Mike Conley
Brandon Jennings
Courtney Lee
Jared Dudley
Meyers Leonard (hope he doesn't breakout before then because he's great - team option)
John Henson (team option)
James Johnson
Terrence Jones
Donatas Motiejunas

Long list ain't it? This is 2015 finding shooters that play defense is easier than finding dominant low post players.

It is a long list, but I don't see us getting many of those players. I'm not trying to get into a Towns vs Okafor debate. I like both of them a lot, and would be happy if we got either one. I was only responding to the guy that said that Al Jefferson was part of a good defensive team so Okafor can be too, and IMO I thought that it wouldn't be a good look if Okafor is the main rim protector because the perimeter D would have to be on point. Towns could be subpar on D, but that's much less likely than Okafor being subpar on D. I'm not team Towns or team Okafor...if anything I'm team Russell since he's my favorite out of the 3. No matter who we draft, I hope that they end up being a Knick for a long time and putting this team back on the map. That's all I can ask for.

[TrueWarrior]

Not positive but I think it was Chad Ford --- said ---- was at Memphis game the other night and asked 2 scouts to choose between Towns and Okafor. Both chose Towns.

For what its worth NBAdraft.net moved Towns from 4 to 1 on their mock yesterday. Jah from 1 to 3 with Russell at 2. Scouts are seeing the same things many of us are it seems.

Do you know how many scouts we alone have? Close to 10. Now multiply that by 30 NBA teams. Supposedly 2 scouts chose Towns.. and you word it like it's a referendum. If I might ask are you involved in politics?

Ha it's not just 2 scouts feller. You know this.